well, i guess the word has not gotten to the unions then...
Posted By: watcher on 2009-06-25
In Reply to: The last I heard was he was not going to tax the - union health benefits - gotta pay for his election
at end of article they quoted one union leader as saying his members "would not tolerate" this. It was an article dated yesterday. But, it would not surprise me that he would exempt unions, which makes absolutely NO sense, because they are the best and most costly benefits to be had. So, probably so, it will be on the backs of folks like us. My question is...what are they going to do after they break our backs? Who is going to pay for all their cr*p then?? Why, whatever am I thinking? Soon it will be only the "poor" which will include all of us, and the government and those who kiss*d the government as* who prosper...hmmm. Kinda like Venezuela...kinda like Nazi Germany...hmmm.
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Guess we'll take your word for that.
One is always tempted to believe you whenever you call someone an id1ot, because you of all people on the board are most intimately and personally familiar with idiocy. In this case, however, we will decline to accept your expert assessment.
You cannot type it word for word, just provide a link.
.
Unions
I am in total agreement with your synopsis of unions. Case in point: I work for one of the largest HMO's in the country as a MT, and our jobs are on the line. We belong to a 'union' (won't say which one), and without notice, the facility decided to use VR and guess what? The majority of our MT's are either jobless or working for dang near nothing. The union stood with management and let them take our jobs and then turned around and told us that 'there was nothing they could do about it'. Our country has gone to h#ll in a handbasket since deregulation (Reagan years). They deregulated every single job such as Gourdpainter pointed out, trucking. Look at the airlines and any other large company you can think of. The American worker is an and has been an endangered species and it saddens me that on the Repub and Dem sides that we are stuck in the middle and ultimatrly pay the price for their greed and neglect when it comes to their constituents. WE suffer - not them. They don't have to worry about what to do when they decide to retire, they don't have to worry about how to give their children a good education and certainly don't have to worry about how their families are fed. There was a time when unions did their best to protect the American worker but looking at what I personally deal with at this point in time - they are weak, useless and take your money and you can believe you get little or no representation when or if its needed. JMO.
those bad ol' unions
I love how the unions are always the secret cause of the problems. If demanding good pay and fair treatment can utterly destroy the economy, then maybe our economy is too unbalanced to be worth saving.
You're right, though. It's a lot easier to create a cheap job where workers are unprotected and uninsured, than it is to create a good job. And so the foreign car companies came flocking to the southern US to build their factories, and the US taxpayer, as always, picked up the cost of the uninsured. And now the business is bottoming out, and there's no safety net for the workers, because everybody was too busy trying to cut costs and complaining about those evil union workers up north.
What the unions have done lately
is negotiate bloated hourly pay rates and pension plans. The car manufacturers, of course, agreed. Couple that with executive pay and bonuses, the effect has been to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
I believe it was a triad, the unions, executives, and government meddling that has killed the auto industry.
Let's not leave out the government's part in this - long before the bailouts, government mandates and standards for manufacturing cars other than what people wish to buy. And since the government could not ban SUVs and trucks (apparently what many consumer wanted and still want) it attacks them in a different way.
We've all read claims that SUVs are 'responsible for highway deaths.' Why? Because the SUV driver walked away and the family of four driving a roller skate did not? Look for gas prices to go back up to four bucks and stay there. That will be to force us to drive tiny death trap cars. People were actually buying them when gas prices were high, but sales dropped when the per-gallon price got back down to two dollars.
Maybe there will also be some kind of tax based on vehicle size or weight, either on purchase, or to scoop more of us into the governmentm maw, a federal surtax when we reregister our current cars.
Unions, etc.
1. I agree that I kind of mixed up two points here. I was sort of confused about you saying I needed to educate myself on percentages, though. And I was being kind enough not to mention that we might not need such a large part of our budget going to the DOD had Mr. Bush not gotten us into at least one, if not two unwinnable wars with the loss of over 4,000 young American lives, on the basis of, shall we say, fibbing, or making up "facts on the ground" that were totally false. But hey, Mission Accomplished!
2. I don't think a transcription union would work - especially right now. Too many people are worried about keeping their jobs to complain about how our pay rate has actually decreased over the years rather than increased. 30 years ago I was earning 5 cents per line for a 50-character line, straight typing, correcting mistakes with white-out (so happy when correcting selectrics arrived) and managing 100 dollars a day. That amount actually meant something back then. Nowadays people are under so much stress, not knowing when the "other shoe is going to fall" that they are happy to have scraps, as long as it means they have a job.
3. I'm not exactly sure what happened with the UAW, other than being put under incredible pressure to make concession after concession, all while being made to look like the bad guys who were the cause of all the trouble. For myself, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to work on the line day after day, as was the case for some of my relatives. My husband's union is a very strong union. Every year he has gotten a raise in pay, he has vacation pay, health insurance, and a pension plan. I don't really think I provided you with a "cache of union slogans", but I am very thankful for the Ironworkers Union.
I think probably the end of unions is not far away. Union-busting seems to be a favorite activity of certain people. All I can tell you is that for my family, my husband was able to earn a living wage in his very dangerous occupation.
As I alluded to previously, in our great country we are entitled to our opinions. I thank God for that.
I swear this is all because of the unions. They will
nm
want to talk about unions?
the places i've seen around our area who have unions are pathetic. i've seen unions protect employees who come to work intoxicated, who don't come to work at all, who PLAY CARDS on work time, do what they want because their "union will protect" them. so if you are suggesting the union is American... that's pretty pathetic. if they were actually protect HARD WORKING AMERICANS, then i'd be fine with it.
you wanna talk about "jabs" at obama? i guess "a bunch of losers" would not be a jab?
i believe the unions were meant to
maybe part of the downfall is because of the lazy ones who rode on the backs of the hard workers.
that is the only part of a union that i could say i'm against. if you are not pulling your weight, enough... ya know?
regarding these MTs who cherry pick, i wish these companies would call them on it, give them notice and get rid of them... there are plenty of good MTs who would gladly take their place.
actually i have seen norma rae.. lol... it has been YEARS go though...
I have seen unions do good and bad
Did anyone take note of what happened with the last grocery strikes in California. The employees certainly did not end up better off after months of striking for a corrupt union. I have also seen them do very good things. They do keep wages high--sometimes, perhaps too high. Checkers at your grocery stores used to have to memorize codes and prices and everything else. Now, it is so simple that you and I can do it with no training whatsoever, thus, the self checkout, so maybe, just maybe, $20/hour with really good benefits is more than that job is worth at this point. I think that unions are good and bad, but the sanctity of the secret ballot needs to be preserved. Of course, this is just my opinion and some of you out there might disagree 200%.
Deregulation of unions in US
Gourdie: I definitely agree, and I find it such a shame that the workers and consumers in this country cannot see what has happened. All this talk about OSHA, etc. has no meaning anymore because the backbone of these government offices have no backbone and don't give a gnat's tweeter how the American workers have and continue to suffer.
Profitable? Doing well? No unions?
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/oct2008/germ-o25.shtml
European Auto Industry in Crisis
http://www.emf-fem.org/Press/Press-release-archive/2007/EU-Automotive-Restructuring-Forum
EU Automotive Restructuring Forum - talks about working with trade unions
http://blog.lib.umn.edu/ashuster/nonviolence/2008/09/romanian_autoworkers_strike_against_rockbottom_wages.html
Romanian Autoworkers Strike Against Rock-Bottom Wages
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/german-autoworkers-threaten-strike/
German Autoworkers Threaten Strike
http://uk.oneworld.net/contact/company/view/18
Canadian Autoworkers Union Directory
http://www.just-auto.com/article.aspx?id=89621
UK: Car workers' Union Frustrated by Low Manufacturers Output
http://www.autonews24h.com/Auto-Industry/Peugeot-Citroen/741.html
UK Peugeot Workers Vote Against Strike to Protest Lay-Offs
http://climateandcapitalism.com/?p=573
Swedish Auto Workers Campaign
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2002/10/feature/it0210303f.htm
Crisis at Fiat Worsens - name countless unions
Yet another reason we need unions...nm
x
This, along with the millions to the unions
help pay for Mr. O's presidency being bought. These 2 for sure, reckon how much more?
unions redux
The question that always comes to mind, when I hear how lazy and shiftless all those UAW workers are, is--who made all those millions and millions of cars on the road, all these years? It certainly couldn't be the union workers, right? They wouldn't lift a finger to make a car, they were too busy fanning themselves with hundred dollar bills. So who made the cars?
The austrian-school piece you quote is a good example of the thing that is most wrong with our country: Turning worker against worker, while the CEOs profit. Boiled down to its essentials, the article says: ''Workers shouldn't have any power to organize to defend their rights. Their pay should be determined by the free market--a market that is not so much free, as it is controlled by the corporate interests.''
That is the ideological foundation: Enrich the rich, at the expense of the worker. The pratical method: Keep workers from organizing so that their interests don't have to be considered. And the antiunion rhetoric that we've all heard, all our lives, is the propaganda technique that makes it seem reasonable.
I don't doubt that the foreign car companies who have based operations here in the non-unionized southern US have good production numbers. They have received massive government intervention in their own countries, enabling them to create better production methods (rather than simply enriching the CEOs and stockholders, as our domestic companies seem intent on). The fact that, in their own countries, they don't have to pay for insurance for their workers, because these benefits are provided by the government, helps them stay lean. Our own method, throwing workers to the wolves, also helps socialize costs, but with a more chilling, terrifying effect.
Anyway. My point: If you are against workers organizing to defend their rights, then you are on the side of the wealthy who have organized to defend their wealth. There is not a middle ground.
Well....civil unions would have
to be something we would do on a country wide basis. I mean...what is the point if you can't leave your state because other states don't accept them. I meant this as a country wide thing. If the whole country recognized civil unions with the same benefits as marriage kind of thing. I guess I wasn't specific enough.
As it goes, same sex marriage is only accepted in the states that allow it. I mean...you have to live in those states to have the rights of marriage...right? Please correct me if I'm wrong on that one because I really don't know.
Bringing up from below about taxes/unions
At first we were told the outsourcing was to cut labor costs. Only after this campaign rhetoric took hold did the issue of taxes come up. Now I ask you, if the reason for outsourcing is taxes, what the heck? Didn't Bush CUT taxes.
It seems that American people have lost the reasoning side of their collective brains. When I quit working a few months ago I was making LESS than I made in the 80s. How is that possible? The cost of medical care has not gone down. The cost of medical insurance has not gone down. I posted some time ago about a local hospital that laid off their most experienced nurses, not a few of them, ALL of them, and hired new graduate nurses to replace them at lesser wages. What was that about? They got away with it though. Anything to increase the bottom line profit.
This is true in every industry. They like to blame labor for everything. Well, how the heck can you buy a $2+ loaf of bread and $5 gallon of milk on minimum wage, ya know? Take gasoline for example. Sure it has gone down the last days but is it back where it was when oil was what? $86 a barrel or whatever? No and it never will be.
So that car you drive.........how much do you think of the price tag is labor?
These things are what really aggravates me. People just can't seem to use reasoning power any more. I'll give you an example: After my husband lost his job in the CF fiasco, he drove for awhile for a friend who owns a trucking company. I went with him on a trip. He picked up a load of beef in Boonesville, AR, hauled it to Chicago, no problem. Then they sent him somewhere in Ohio to pick up a load of vinegar to take to Florida. Got to Ohio and I forget the reason but he couldn't pick up the vinegar. Then he was sent (empty) to Logan (?), Kentucky where he picked up 40,000 pounds of chocolate covered doughnuts which he delivered to Phoenix. In Phoenix they told him that most of that load would be routed back to Atlanta. Now what kind of sense does that make? Taxes the problem? I would say poor management is a bigger problem than taxes OR labor.
I'm sorry about your dad's experience. People used to do things like that. I recall my late father-in-law, worked for the fire department in Fort Worth and he said during the depression they did the same thing, worked less so the ones with less seniority could keep a job. They all suffered but they suffered together and somehow they all made it as did your parents.
I am just horrified at the apparent digress of intelligence in this country. It seems people believe anything the news media or anyone else tells them. Seems they have totally lost the ability to reason and God forbid that anyone should think of anyone other than themself.
All that said, feel free to go ahead and believe that companies are outsourcing jobs because of labor costs or taxes. The unionized workers, under Reagan, started taking wage concessions, that is taking a DECREASE in pay to keep jobs. How did that work? Don't believe I've heard of any of the victims of outsourcing even being offered a pay cut to keep the jobs in this country. Certainly not the Rheem plant in Fort Smith that the other day laid off the last 600 workers. They sent most of their production to Mexico a few years ago. Fort Smith they say is dying because of outsourcing. Their reason? They say, it's "labor costs." Well, then, how is it that people can't afford to pay their bills with all the excessive wages they're supposedly receiving. Obviously the next in vogue EXCUSE will be that taxes are lower in other countries. B.S.!!!!!!!
Unions don't work anymore.
Some union members are afraid to vote for better benefits or strike because management threatens to move, like the other posters stated.
Case in point: A small manufacturing shop. Union wanted higher wages or strike, and health care benefits to stay the same, both in cost and care. The union wanted a $.25 an hour raise. Owner said No. Union asked for $.15. Owner said no. Union said strike. Workers said no. They were afraid the owner would shut down and they had their jobs for 30 years.
The union steward fought for better benefits but when the workers voted against the better benefits, the company won. Two weeks later, the steward was laid off, along with a member of my family just because he was friends with the union steward. That was 3 years ago. The workers are still working for the same hourly rate this year. How's that for being fair?
I was a member of the Teamster's. When we went on strike for better wages back in the ྂs, he company threatened to move out.. We also wanted (women) equal pay for equal work because we did the same work the men did, but got paid $.25 an hour less. They moved and 100 jobs were lost. So, you see, companies still have the upper hand, not unions. They only want your money anymore. They really don't care about the workers.
No, unions DO put them in a financial hole.
nm
The unions are killing companies, though. That is
nm
Have a question for the labor unions....
especially the UAW....how do you like him now that he has thrown you under the "let the automakers go bankrupt" bus. Be careful what you vote for.....
I think they should go bankrupt. Unions didn't cause it -
I remember the debate. And of course this is not word for word, I NEVER said...sm
*because I'm not.* This is a LIE that I got tired of arguing with them about then. Unless you are confusing me with an old poster that went under the moniker Demo.
Sambo thinks last word=best word...
su
Yeah, I'll talk about unions s/m
Two husbands who were union workers. One IBEW, one Teamster. BOTH said there were workers who didn't carry their share of the work load...not much different than MTs who cherry pick for instance.
#1 IBEW husband said at the time or Reganomics, when Ronald Reagan, himself a card-carrying member of the actor's union, said he would break the unions, it would be the downfall of the American workers.. Regan succeeded in breaking the backs of the unions. When union workers lost the ability to bargain, they had to start taking wage concessions......and guess what? Union wages went down, so did non-union wages follow suit. When union workers got better working conditions, better wages and better benefits, so did non-union workers.
#2 Teamster husband is a radical retired Teamster. While he also complained that there were lazy workers who rode on the backs of the hard-workers, he also said that the union does not support such and more times than not the union would uphold the firing of such a person. He has a Teamster retirement that is the envy of most people and he has retiree health care benefits even though we pay about $700 a month for that. While he was working, his union dues were around $35 a month and that covered our insurance. Teamster retirees today will not enjoy those benefits.
Do some research on the history of unions. Might not hurt to watch the movie Norma Rae as well.
You already posted this question. Civil unions are
*
yep. Its Fox. Just googled it. word for word. nm
nm
Not one word. One defitinion of a word.
Cult: 1. A system of religious worship or ritual.
Or how about this:
Cult: A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
Or my personal favorite:
Cult: A self-identified group of people who share a narrowly defined interest or perspective.
Good don't guess. It's my guess though.nm
x
At least he's using the O word
He's at least a little closer to the actual truth this time. How come no one important seems to care about all these changes in reasoning? Does anyone notice??? (Except us?)
There's that word again.
.
With or without the *word*
I agree with the post. Thanks for posting it. I'm sorry this entire thread has been invaded by those who are only here to attack. They are showing their true colores, though. They want to control what eveyone reads, sees, speaks, thinks and which God they believe in. These boards are only a microcosm of the country, and they are quite representative of their party. The more they reveal their controlling selves here and places like this, hopefully, the more people will see it for what it is and finally feel they've had ENOUGH! For that reason, I personally hope they keep it up. 
When is the key word.
And when will it be? Bush has already admitted that solving this quagmire will be the responsibility of a future President. If we *stay the course,* any terrorist or insurgent would then be given a free pass to kill our American soldiers (brutally, like they did this morning) while these soldiers are trying to fight for the Iraqis. They scream and yell against amnesty for illegals who want to come here to work, but they're in favor of it if it involves our troops being killed.
HOW TWISTED IS THAT?!!
I'm grateful the majority of these Senators showed support for our troops and respect for their lives.
I have one word. sm
Bull.
N-Word
Regarding the definition you posted: “deeply disparaging and are used when the speaker deliberately wishes to cause great offense,” I submit the following:
I think there is much ado about nothing here. Does anyone say the "C-word" when blacks refer to whites as "crackers?" I don't even bother finding that offensive. Again, political correctness. Such as one time I received an email saying "black" was ALWAYS capitalized but "white" was never capitalized. Fine with me. So if "black" is capitalized why is "white" never capitalized??? Black and white are colors, why should either be capitalized? Which, by the way is what the next QA person informed me of, as if I didn't already know that.
I have used the infamous "N-word" but never in connection with the color of a person's skin. I used the term exactly as described by Mr. Webster. Most usually I have used it to describe what we Caucasians would call "white trash" or people who have 50 cars up on jacks in their front yards. I grew up in a community where there were no blacks so I certainly grew up with no predjudice and I still have no predjudice. Black or white we are all God's children and one is no better, or worse, than the other. Not meant to be off topic, just to say that in my opinion, Obama should not be viewed as being "black" or "white." He should be judged based on his own merits, or lack thereof, as a human being. While I don't support him, I am probably less critical of him than I am of McCain.
but not without the last word, right? YOU...
are the one keeping the thread alive...can't resist that one more little twist of the knife. Grownup? I don't think so. Mob mentality? You bet. That has been well demonstrated here. Only thing missing is the pitchforks, torches and castle bridge. LOL. Sheesh.
Word up
Twelve more people dispatched by McCain to Alaska to further vet Palin (AFTER she was announced). Things not looking good. Speculation is that her name will be withdrawn. No communists are involved in the vetting.
In a word...Always. That is if you believe
nm
key word here is
SOME people are worth defending . . . (not all) Katrina deja vu. The true conservative mind unmasked. Thanks for the insight.
Well...but it is the last word.
nm
So, does anyone believe a word of
banks & the stock market? Instead of giving $700B to them, maybe some of it should go to helping Galveston & New Orleans.
The average Joe is gonna take a hit in this, either way. And, that being the case, I'd feel a lot better about all of us kissing our retirement goodbye, and most likely spending our old age on the government dole, if all those greedy fat-cats went down the toilet with us.
to last word sam - where did I say
I simply answered as to where they were when the vote was being taken.
You'd make a good politician with your constant need to always have the last word and manipulating every post you read.
In a word, yes.
It is apparent that the sanctions have not had the desired result as was their original intent. In fact, typically economic sanctions DO only end up hurting the populations of countries with dictatorial leadership...people who have little or no power affect change.
Another side to this coin would be the need for an attitude adjustment on the part of the US. I am referring to the notion that the US should be "toppling" the Castro brothers or any other regime not to our liking. Preserving our national security is a legitimate concern. Fomenting violent overthrow, bankrolling coupe d'tats, installing puppet governments that that carry out the shots we call....NOT. We are not in charge of the world and need to evolve into relationships based on peaceful coexistence, period.
How can anyone believe a word the man says....
why, how silly of me. Because they have walked the yellow brick road to the great and powerful "O." He counts on it.
I know the word has been used a lot but...that's SAD.
nm
In a word.......... sm
No. The middle class seems to be shrinking every day, and it does not appear to be migrating north into the rich class either. Like you, I am concerned for our future and whether I will even have a home this time next year.
Please don't take this as a Christian "rant" but last night during my prayers, I literally cried because I fear for the world that my sons will be going out into very soon. Their generation is going to have a very rocky start, much more so than we did and certainly much more than our parents did. I am also very concerned for my mother and all elderly people like her. Will she be able to continue buying her medication, even with Medicare and supplement insurance? This month, she fell in the donut hole and had to pay for part of her medications from her own pocket to the tune of some $400. Her monthly income is only just over $900.
I'm currently paying 11.75% on my home mortgage because it was taken out when interest rates were quite high and my credit is less than stellar. I have asked numerous times, in light of reduced interest rates, for it to be dropped, but the company is not willing to do that. I've been paying on it for 12 years now and I think I might own the back door.
I still hope and pray that our nation can turn around and get back on the road to prosperity for all, but I think about the Great Depression and what it took for this nation to right itself and experience prosperity once again. I don't think I am ready for another World War to happen in order for that to take place.
Everyone is in a tight place now. Even the rich are beginning to "suffer," although I have little to no pity for them as their suffering, while it does impair their lifestyles, is nothing compared to what is going on with the rest of the nation.
Sorry to be a downer this morning, but it's time we "prepare for the worst and hope for the best." It's going to be a long, hard haul back to the top.....if we ever make it.
In a word, no.
Republicans who constantly try to impede the President-Elect and his administration in their attempts to tackle the the wasteland that W is leaving in his dust will only end up digging their own graves. These lame transparent baseless smears are as transparent as Saran Wrap and only end up revealing the ignorance of those who propagate them. Keep up the good work. It is about as effective as the failed campaign that has left this party in shambles.
It's so much more than just one word..(sm)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqiPrRG5lNU&feature=related
I think the word you are looking for is.....sm
presumptuous.
I find it rather self-serving of Obama to expect to move into the Blair House before it is available. Events at this house are scheduled months in advance and Mr. Bush was well within his rights as PRESIDENT to turn down Obama's request.
Why does Obama think the earth spins around him?
I think maybe the word you were looking for...(sm)
was "confusing," not "deceiving." Obama was very clear in laying this out time and time again. Youtube is full of videos of his speeches and debates. You might want to browse through them. What is deceiving though are posts like the one you just did.
In a word.................. sm
Yes. On both counts. If the rapist has a true salvation in Christ and the Jew does not .
Friend, you are more than pragmatic. You are hedging a bet that you are bound to lose if you don't accept Christ. It is as simple as that.
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