uhh... Joe the Plumber is not running for VP, leave
Posted By: the nasty attacks for Palin, dems.nm on 2008-10-16
In Reply to: Mabye pubs should have researched - their poster boy first. nm
nm
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Joe the Plumber wasn't running for a top government job. nm
*
If you leave our board, I'll leave your board.
Just Like Joe the Plumber...
Her 15 minutes of fame.
Joe the Plumber
How many of us employ attorneys? Do you have a publicist? Are you in the middle of negotiating a book deal? There must be thousands of middle class citizens trying to close a contract on a country and western CD release. Thinking about running for Congress? Stumping for the reds, declaring in no uncertain terms Obama is Marxist for reasons you cannot put your finger on and is anti-Israel for reasons you cannot explain? I can't decide who is better at the snow job...McCain with his Joe the Plumber get-out-the-vote chant or Joe the Plumber with his 15-minute opportunism. Judgment? Vet deficit? Makes a mockery of his own campaign, still in search of a coherent message and no identifiable theme in sight.
Exactly right!...Joe, the Plumber
himself said that he was CALLED and told to go this this rallye!
I wonder what else they told him?
Joe the Plumber?
We need to get out of cartoon land and realize that we've made the right decision.
How many posts have you seen where our wages are falling? Can we fix it? Yes we can and not by giving in to the criticism by the republicans with statements like "I'll qualify for food stamps."
That Joe guy isn't even a licensed plumber
He is thinking of buying a plumbing business. You don't have to be licensed in Ohio. You can say plumbers are not rich but he is planning on making over $250K. Get your head out of your...
The plumber would be making $250 k and
it would be 36 percent tax and 39 percent, which is 3 percent more, on the amount over 250K. That's pretty rich. Keep on typing, dope.
Poor Joe the Plumber is going to have
to worry about paying taxes. Turns out he doesn't have a plumber's license nor does his employer which is required by the county. No license, no work, no taxes. Poor Joe.
Google Joe the plumber 40,000 and
nm
Joe The Plumber Rocks
Funny how this plumber was the go-to guy until he struck a cord with "regular Americans." The drive-bys loathe him, and also have no clue how hard he works. When he dropped the "S" (socialism) card, they went totally nuts.
This is a perfect example of elitism. They just don't get it that he wants to decide how he'll spend his own money. For those of you who are too insecure to make those decisions, go ahead, but leave the rest of us alone!
Are y'all really so pathetic that you don't trust your own judgement as to how to spend your own money? Look at how well the gov't handles things already: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the mail service, etc.?
Unbelievable!
You know well I was not talking about Joe the NON-plumber!
/
What about his comment to Joe the Plumber?
I mean I know Joe has been discredited, but Obama did say he was going to take some from Joe to help out those below him. That's basically the same thing isn't it?
Like I've said before, I have no issue with helping legitimately needy people. But there are so many people out there who are just LAZY and unwilling to work and having more and more children just to get more foodstamps that it's not fair. We don't need to tax more. We need to take a good long hard look at our welfare program and the participants and weed out the ones who are just using the system.
Last weekend we had a community clean up day at our church. Our church is in the middle of a trailer park community with a lot of Hispanic, black, and white members, all low income, all living in suboptimal living conditions. We went around and picked up trash on the road and helped people clean trash out of their yards. Our hope was to help the community take pride in where they live and to come alongside one another to make it a cleaner and safer place for them and their children. Out of at least 100 residents in that area, maybe 3 helped us. Most of them just watched, and some even got upset when we couldn't get everything out of their yards. Instead of coming out and working alongside us, some acted like it was owed to them. Now of course being a church our main hope was to build relationships and eventually teach them about Jesus, but our short term hope was just to build a sense of community in this down trodden area.
I stopped and talked to one girl, about my age, who has two small children, 3 and 1, I believe. She asked me why I didn't have a child yet. I told her that besides the fact that I'm still in school, we can't afford to have kids yet. She said "Oh don't worry! If you can't afford it the state will take care of them for you!" She told me she doesn't work, but her boyfriend does. They won't get married because she might lose her "benefits". I offered to set her up with one of the girls in my youth class that babysits if she wanted to get a part time job, but she doesn't want to work. And I don't think it was because she wants to be home with her children. At any rate, welfare is not supposed to be a way for you to be a stay at home mom.
That line of thinking is all too common nowadays. Would my husband and I like to have a child? Yes, definitely. I have always wanted to be a young mom (not like 16, but early 20s). But it would be selfish of us to have a child knowing we can't afford to take care of one right now.
We have to stop enabling this laziness and lack of ambition. I think Obama should at least hold off on the taxing if he becomes president until there is a thorough investigation into our welfare system. If he wants to create more jobs, hire a slew of caseworkers to work one on one with these families who have been on welfare for so long and find out WHY. It's supposed to be a helping hand in times of need, not a way of living.
Another thing I fear is the fact that with a democratic congress and president, very soon it may be so a preacher cannot preach what is in the Bible in a church. As a Christian, I'm sure you know that the Bible speaks against other false religions. From what I understand with talking with my father-in-law a.k.a. my pastor, there are issues being discussed that will limit what he can say from the podium. Now my FIL is not a hateful man by any means, but he is going to preach straight from the Bible, and he isn't just going to skip parts that may offend someone else. I don't know the whole story behind this, but if it's true, we may be in for more trouble then we imagine.
All we can pray for is that God will work in the heart of whomever gets into the white house and our senate and congress. But the more and more I see, I truly believe judgment is coming upon us.
or a plumber in hot pants
:)
plumber lied about
his plans to buy a business as he had no money. No plumbing license. Owed back taxes. Was on welfare. He was a fictious dupe who tried to grab the spotlight for his own fortune. How's that book and record deal going?
Yes, Joe was an actual plumber...
...living in Ohio, throwing a football with his son in the front yard when the whole Obamarama came down his street and Obama invited Joe to ask a question. Joe asked: If you are elected, are you going to raise my taxes? Obama answered: It's good to spread the wealth around and give everyone the advantages you've had.
Joe was obviously planted in his own front yard just to sandbag Obama with a trick question and entrap him into revealing the true agenda. Republicans are so devious!
What happened after this was extremely interesting. Media started to investigate Joe as though he were a candidate, not just Joe Citizen.
They unearthed and published the information that he was not even a licensed plumber. (In fact, no license was legally required because he was an employee, although he was working toward buying the plumbing business.) His trash was stolen from in front of his house - a standard investigative technique. Joe's driving record was accessed - illegally - and details made public. I think I even remember hearing he owed some money to the IRS.
His OJFS records were accessed several times (Ohio Job and Family Services are the ones who administer unemployment, child support, etc.) and, mysteriously, information about his divorce and child support ended up in the news. The (dem) head of OJFS then tried to cover by saying this is common practice anytime a person becomes a celebrity. However, this was easily disproved. (The woman was allowed to resign. She and two assistants are the ones being sued.)
All for having the poor judgment to ask a question of Obama, when invited to. A lot has been said over the yeas about Nixon and his enemies list, but our new president is someone not to be crossed, not by a Joe Citizen, certainly not by a Limbaugh.
Get 'em, Joe!
Joe the Plumber had to get back in the spotlight -
http://www.comcast.net/news/video/958491392/plumberappalledbymccainposition/
Then go be a plumber and stop bitching about
!!
For all those O lovers who jumped on the plumber
Obama stated today, while trying to turn the plumber thing back towards McCain as if he NEVER said "spread the wealth" this.......
"How many of you know a plumber that makes half a million dollars?". McCain never said that, Obama did. Obama told the plumber that the business he was looking at buying which may or may not make 250K would be taxed to "spread the wealth" around. Boy, he's desperate now.
Now for all those O lovers who have had such a hatred all of a sudden of a "rich" plumber, how ya gonna back peddle on that one? You and Obama need to get on the same page...... now even Obama says a plumber can't make 250K! What a joke he is.
Plumber and back pedaling. s/m
I am not about to back pedal. 1) Anyone knows that a plumber doesn't make $250,000 annually. 2) Anyone who has ever paid a plumber knows that a PLUMBING CONTRACTOR could make $250,000 and more.
Joe the Plumber doesn't look or act smart enough to be a plumbing contractor and making $40,000 annually it's not likely he could buy a plumbing business. But then on the other hand, my plumber son laughs and says, "all you have to know to be a plumber is that sh!t doesn't run uphill and that payday is on Friday." LOL Hearing JM talk, one would think "his buddy, Joe the Plumber" was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
If SP and Joe The Plumber have saved McCain, God help us all! n/m
!
Plumber does not mitigate fact that McC has yet
in debates/stump. That's why O is leading among middle class voters in the polls. Joe the plumber was not exactly dealing with a full deck. Democrat party embodies a huge chunk of HONEST hard-working class Americans and the next time the party vets a poster boy, they might try to come up with something more plausible and bust-proof in terms of verifiable background.
The unlicensed one posed the question of tax. Raising taxes and giving tax cuts are American as apple pie and are a practices employed by both political parties. No need to go bonkers over the "S" card since it is a word-mince game conjured up by a desperate campaign to muddy the econmic waters and run the clock out in terms of avoiding McClone's 90% W support and the mirror image he projects to voters in terms of the current economic crisis.
Aren't we full of paradox this morning? First we're deadbeats, then we are elite. This camp cannot demonstrate even the most rudimentary understanding of basic economic concepts, unless of course that "E" card is meant as a slam toward educated folks who make them feel insecure and defensive.
We do not need your advice on what we should be examining. What we are looking at here are our mounting credit card bills, some of which are hiking interest rates into the 22% category, our frozen banks and their stocks being bought up with tax bucks, the foreclosed homes that are dotting our landscape and bringing down our property values, bail-out schemes that tax our great-grandchildren, AIG spa parties and pheasant hunts, the stock market roller coaster, 401Ks diminished by 38% in value, skyrocketing cost of food, job losses, plunging retail index going into the holiday season, rising unemployment, job losses, stagnant wages, inaccessible health care coverage, obscene costs of medical care and prescription drugs...all in the afermath of trickle down.
This Joe the Plumber is supposed to represent
Well this is a quote from Joe the Plumber.
"The media's worried about whether I've paid my taxes, they're worried about any number of silly things that have nothing to do with America," Wurzelbacher told the former Republican presidential hopeful on his show, "Huckabee."
This is what is so funny. In Joe's eyes "taxes" are silly things. So, you see he's not worried at all about his taxes being raised IF he were to purchase a company. He thinks taxes are silly and have nothing to do with America. So, you don't think we're footing this Joe the Plumber's bill already?????  He can't even pay his own taxes. How will he ever purchase a company worth more than $250,000.00 with an "outstanding" bill?
Obama said...from his own mouth...to Joe the Plumber....
when Joe said, "Why do you want to tax me more?" to which Obama replied: "It's not that I want to tax you more. I think the guys below Joe deserve a shot too." I agree with that..just not the way Obama wants. They deserve the SAME shot JOE had. Work several years to GET to the point where you can buy a business...like JOE has. Don't TAX the JOES of the world MORE so you can cut people who have not worked that hard a check for which they did NOTHING. That is not fair, gourdpainter. No way is that FAIR.
Why not have a straight across the board percentage tax, no deductions, no NOTHING. Yes, the rich would pay more than the poor because they make more, but it would be FAIR. It would not be taxing any class of people at a HIGHER rate and divying it out to the ones below them who did NOTHING to earn it.
Obama is a socialist. He says so in his plans, he said so to Joe the Plumber. Why aren't you listening?
:-)
AMEN COREY!!!! We need more like you and Joe the plumber. nm
nm
Did Joe the Plumber ever pay his back taxes?
nm
here was Joe the Plumber and then Rick Santelli. nm
xxx
Joe the plumber not licensed, makes $40,000 a year,
a registered republican. What a difference a day makes.
There is no relevance to explain. Joe the unlicensed plumber
nm
McCain has 2 gimmicks Palin and Joe the Plumber sm
Joe is not even licensed and he makes $40K a year. He will benefit under Barack's plan but he is such a redneck he is brainwashed and probably watches Fox. He was not just discovered either.
McCain cheapens his campaign with the plumber sm
McCain Pals With Plumber, Cheapens Campaign: Margaret Carlson
Commentary by Margaret Carlson
Oct. 17 (Bloomberg) -- You'd hope a process that we've had 40 years to improve would be better than our presidential debates. We've tweaked around the edges, and one moderator beats a panel of them. Bob Schieffer did a superior job and was persistent at Wednesday night's debate. Yet no moderator is ever going to get the candidates to talk to each other, much less look one another in the eye.
Why not no moderator? It worked for the Lincoln-Douglas debates, where people stood in the hot sun for hours to listen.
The most dispiriting thing to come out of the debate was the morning after. I woke to see Joe Wurzelbacher's street in Holland, Ohio, lit up like Times Square with network and cable satellite trucks clogging the place.
I thought the press was beyond 23 mentions of Joe the Plumber by one candidate and three by the other, while Asian markets were dropping 10 percent and the Dow has been diving.
Unless he starts making courtesy calls to fix the running toilets of the journalists making him famous, let's relegate Joe the Plumber back to the playroom with Bob the Builder or the 15- minute hall of fame with Harry and Louise and Ross Perot's crazy aunt in the attic.
Here's the reason for Joe: McCain has no argument left except that no one should have to pay taxes, and that Obama isn't one of us.
Distasteful Tactics
He gave up the experience argument by choosing Sarah Palin. By his own admission, McCain was never on top of the economy, and his performance since the financial crisis began, lurching from one pronouncement to another, proved his self-assessment right.
What McCain has instead are the distasteful tactics pressed on him by his consultants, the very ones who defamed him in his 2000 race for the presidency.
That's where ``Obama is palling around with terrorists'' comes from. It's why in the final debate, more time was spent on a radical bomb-thrower from the ླྀs, William Ayers, than Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and his so-far-unsuccessful attempts to stop a market meltdown.
At first, I thought McCain was going to drop Ayers when he said he didn't care about ``an old, washed-up terrorist.'' Then he pivoted and demanded to know ``the full extent'' of his relationship with Obama.
Happy to Oblige
Obama was happy to oblige. Ayers, who committed his violent acts when Obama was a boy, is not and never has been involved in his campaign. Obama condemned his ``despicable acts'' and pointed out that he once served on a board with Ayers that was filled with Republican luminaries and funded by another one, Walter Annenberg. Thanks to McCain, Obama got to explain that before 30 million people.
McCain also gave Obama a chance to answer another charge. McCain is trying to make an oak out of Acorn, a community- organizing group that runs voter-registration drives. McCain said Acorn was about to perpetrate the biggest voter fraud in history, ``destroying the fabric of democracy.''
Acorn doesn't register voters; only state officials can do that. The false names collected are easy to spot. It's an urban myth that Donald Duck and Harry Potter end up voting. The ones that slip through are infinitesimal.
Old Hat
Obama explained his prior association. ``I represented them alongside the U.S. Justice Department'' enforcing the Illinois motor-voter law.
It's old hat for Republicans to cry voter fraud just the way Democrats cry voter suppression for purged lists, long lines and election-day challenges. If I show up on the list as Margaret B. Carlson but I've since dropped the B and have a driver's license that says Margaret Carlson, I might be turned away.
Most of McCain's anger was non-verbal -- in his tense, coiled body, eye-rolls, sniffing, and forced smiles. He had to know Ayers wasn't going to work. But there comes a moment when a candidate has to fluff up the base or find himself lonely.
Already, McCain has lost the support of some brand-name conservatives with his choice of Palin as a running mate. The latest is author Christopher Buckley, who had to resign from National Review, the magazine his father, William Buckley, founded, for his apostasy.
Following Rush
With Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity attacking Ayers for three weeks, McCain would have been fired by his own party before the election if he'd held back.
I'm not sure he can count on Palin anymore. She told Limbaugh she had nothing to lose, and she's acting like it. She was openly critical of McCain's decision to pull out of Michigan, and insisted that she and her husband would happily campaign there.
She's supposed to wield a hatchet, not throw bombs. The one genuine emotional moment in the debate came when McCain said how saddened he was about Representative John Lewis's reaction to the hateful language at Palin's rallies. Obama agreed that Lewis went too far in coupling McCain with George Wallace, but the rebuke stung.
Only a short time ago, McCain had named Lewis as one of his heroes.
Those writing McCain's obituary (which I'm not; he lost the debates not the election) wrongly say that Palin wins no matter what. The campaign has revealed a petty politician who misused her office, got revenge on her enemies, turned on fellow Republicans when it suited her ambitions, and violated ethics laws by trying to get her brother-in-law fired.
McCain's best chance of winning is by doing what he did when his campaign was pronounced dead last year. Fire people. Drop the cheap shots. Go out on your own and barnstorm the country. Be serious about the broken country President George W. Bush is leaving us. Reclaim the patrimony of the McCains and win -- or lose -- with honor.
Government computers used to check out Joe the Plumber...
|
Investigators trying to determine whether access was illegal
Friday, October 24, 2008 8:57 PM
By Randy Ludlow
The Columbus Dispatch
"State and local officials are investigating if state and law-enforcement computer systems were illegally accessed when they were tapped for personal information about "Joe the Plumber."
Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher became part of the national political lexicon Oct. 15 when Republican presidential candidate John McCain mentioned him frequently during his final debate with Democrat Barack Obama.
The 34-year-old from the Toledo suburb of Holland is held out by McCain as an example of an American who would be harmed by Obama's tax proposals.
Public records requested by The Dispatch disclose that information on Wurzelbacher's driver's license or his sport-utility vehicle was pulled from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles database three times shortly after the debate.
Information on Wurzelbacher was accessed by accounts assigned to the office of Ohio Attorney General Nancy H. Rogers, the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency and the Toledo Police Department.
It has not been determined who checked on Wurzelbacher, or why. Direct access to driver's license and vehicle registration information from BMV computers is restricted to legitimate law enforcement and government business. |
Obama made it very clear to Joe the Plumber....
Were you listening? He explained it very clearly. He was going to tax Joe at a higher rate and give that money to people "below Joe" so "they would have a chance too." That is NOT American, that is socialism. Out of Obama's own mouth. The man is a socialist, and because you refuse to see it or see it and don't care, it does not make it less true.
To use your words...run and hide if you like.
JT Plumber and family former welfare recipients.
does this mean he turns out to be an ex-commie deadbeat or what?
"Joe the Plumber" legislation introduced...
Ohio has 2 representatives introducing legislation so that the leaks that took place about Joe's child-support, taxes, etc hopefully won't happen again. Although, w/ the rules concerning confidentiality, it shouldn't have happened to begin with. The head of Dept of Family & Human Services is on an unpaid month's suspension for this AND for using State computers to raise money for Obama's campaign.
Two state lawmakers today, Dec. 2, introduced legislation that’s supposed to prevent the kind of government snooping that dogged “Joe the Plumber” - Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher - during the presidential campaign
The legislation, introduced by Rep. Shannon Jones, R-Springboro, and Sen. Mark Wagoner, R-Toledo, would direct state agencies to:
*Fire any unclassified employee who violates privacy rules by improperly accessing confidential personal information.
*Set criteria for determining which employees may access or authorize access to confidential, personal information.
*Allow any citizen to make a written request to an agency or identify all personal, confidential information on that person maintained by the agency.
“The systematic misuse of government databases and the governor’s woeful under reaction to state government workers engaging in this outrageous behavior makes this bill necessary,” Jones said in a press release.
Strickland suspended director Helen Jones-Kelley of the Ohio Job and Family Services Department for a month without pay for her role in the “Joe the Plumber” case. Four other employees also were disciplined.
Ohio Inspector Tom Charles concluded that Jones-Kelley improperly authorized the searches of databases with personal information on Wurzelbacher of suburban Toledo. He became a key figure in the Ohio presidential campaign after questioning Democrat Barack Obama’s tax plans.
Obama to Plumber: My Plan Will 'Spread the Wealth Around'....sm
FYI: Last night, couldn't find this story on the Internet, as the "powers that be" in the liberal media, attempted to scrub this story clean off the Internet, much the way they changed that SNL skit that was truthful on the whole liberal democratic responsbility on the FM/FM mess. They took out the facts of the blame to the dems, and reposted it on the Internet. They are trying to rewrite history, and that should make us very, very upset.
Anyway, found this story again this morning on Fox, and very hard to find the "whole story" elsewhere on the web, as some of it has "been scrubbed clean"
Obama to Plumber: My Plan Will 'Spread the Wealth Around'
Barack Obama tells a plumber in Ohio he wants to "spread the wealth around," eliciting criticism that his economic recovery plan is socialist in nature.
FOXNews.com
Monday, October 13, 2008
Barack Obama told a tax-burdened plumber over the weekend that his economic philosophy is to "spread the wealth around" -- a comment that may only draw fire from riled-up John McCain supporters who have taken to calling Obama a "socialist" at the Republican's rallies.
Obama made the remark, caught on camera, after fielding some tough questions from the plumber Sunday in Ohio, where the Democratic candidate canvassed neighborhoods and encouraged residents to vote early.
"Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?" the plumber asked, complaining that he was being taxed "more and more for fulfilling the American dream."
"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too," Obama responded. "My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
Obama's remarks drew fresh criticism on the blogosphere that the Illinois senator favors a breed of wealth redistribution -- as well as a rebuke from the McCain campaign.
"If Barack Obama's goal as President is to 'spread the wealth around,' perhaps his unconditional meetings with Hugo Chavez, Raul Castro, and Kim Jong-Il aren't so crazy -- if nothing else they can advise an Obama administration on economic policy," McCain spokesman Michael Goldfarb said in a written statement to FOXNews.com. "In contrast, John McCain's goal as president will be to let the American people prosper unburdened by government and ever higher taxes."
Obama frequently rails against what he calls a Republican concept that tax breaks for the wealthy will somehow "trickle down" to middle-class Americans.
Obama says he will not raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year.
However, McCain's aides and supporters argue that Obama wrongly wants to raise taxes on businesses in a time of economic distress.
Both candidates spent Monday discussing how they would resurrect the ailing economy. McCain again pointed to his plan to buy up cumbersome mortgages from homeowners and renegotiate them. Obama unveiled what he called an economic rescue plan for the middle class, which included a 90-day moratorium on foreclosures.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/13/obama-plumber-plan-spread-wealth/
What is so interesting that Joe the Plumber has to hire a publicist team? nm
x
Joe the plumber was a plant! Talk radio knew about him BEFORE he asked Obama a question
He is related to Charles Keating of the Keating 5 scandal that McCain was involved in.
so leave
We make you sick but you just keep coming back and posting again and again and again.
I will leave that for you
I will leave the hate for you and your warmonger group, you the one who says I will chain myself to the WH gates and blow myself up, you who says Im a satanist. You are the one with the hate in your heart and soul and it comes through loud and clear.
Don't leave AW
Dont' leave American woman. I am the original poster, and I don't care what someone who comes onto this board just to troll thinks in the least, it did not bother me at all, so hold on there, Quickdraw!
Don't ask them to leave.
It's fun watching all their hatred explode to the point where they wind up fighting with each other but are too stupid to know it! 
I don't want to leave them to die...sm
But I don't want to be moving slow and steady 20 years from now. Something has got to give. Either fight like its a war and not an occupation, or come on home. The course we are on is not working and I think America is waking up to that. If the democrats change this course and you don't like it, blame Bush. He had 3 years and some months to pick up the pace over there.
I believe if Bush came out and admitted going into Iraq was a *mistake,* which it was, but which he will never do. And if he reached across the aisle for solutions to get us out *not cut and run* and *NOT stay the course.*
What does that mean? Means, I don't want to leave Iraqis to die, but I think Iraqis should take over the course.
I can't for the life of me understand that if Iraqis want this democracy as bad as we do, why not every man and boy fit to fight are not taking to the street to fight for the same. That's anybody's guess.
Side note: Funny how Bush and the likes have been squelshing any idea that this war has nothing to do with oil, but lately Bush himself has been on the campaign trail making comments that if we leave terrorist will get the oil. And he's said he's never said stay the course, WOW!
Oh no, kam...don't leave. They NEED you...
No, they don't just want the minority vote and the poor vote...they want all the votes, just like any other political party. I just find it mildly amusing that when Johnson signed the civil rights act he commented to his aide that the Dems had lost the south for a decade. That was his concern...losing the southern vote because (gasp) they were giving African Americans the vote. And what came next for Pres Johnson? The "War on Poverty" and the start of entitlement programs out the kazoo. If he and the Democratic party were really "true liberals," and they were in power and had the power, why would they have not embarked upon this mission BEFORE African Americans got the vote? They were somehow more worthy of programs when they could vote?
Having said that, I have never been against helping those truly in need, and even if starting it was self-serving, the end result was that those truly in need did get help and that part of it is a very good thing. It has ballooned, however, into a massive cash cow that is not overseen and the waste is astronomical. So, whatever administration is in, whatever party has the power, should exercise some common sense and prioritize as far as programs are concerned, cut the waste, and not raise taxes on us anymore. I would think that liberals and conservatives alike could agree on that point.
Not only will we not leave them with peace,
deficit in American history, caused by WHAT?
And I just love how anyone who doesn't agree with them is labeled as having no values.
What kind of values does someone have to take a healthy surplus upon entering office and not only SQUANDERING it but then going on to create the biggest deficit in American history?
What kind of values does someone have to send our children to an unnecessary war to die and/or be injured while neglecting to give them inadequate supplies?
What kind of values does someone have to send our children off to a foreign land to die for his own personal bogus war, when he was too much of a coward to serve in combat duty himself?
What kind of values does someone have to take the blood of 9/11 victims and the fear of all other Americans and USE it to wage a bogus war against Iraq when that was his goal before he was even elected President?
What kind of values does someone have to not care enough about securing or borders or our ports or protecting our airspace and chemical/nuclear plants and decreases the budget for rail and subway security?
What kind of values does someone have to have to neglect to develop enough smallpox vaccines FOUR YEARS after the worst attack in American history, when bio attacks using smallpox was felt to be a threat?
What kind of values does someone have to have to make sure that his huge war budget includes FREE comprehensive medical benefits for all Iraqi citizens while he presides over a country where many of his own citizens who work 40 hours or more a week can't even afford health insurance?
What kind of values does someone have to have to deny American scientists the opportunity to study stem cell research, using the argument that he wants to "protect life" when he presides over a country where our children are being routinely molested and MURDERED by animals who the government refuses to keep in jail?
Out of all the talk on these boards about life being "precious" as it regards stem cell research, I have yet to see ONE SINGLE POST about the multitude of children that have been abducted, sexually abused and murdered in this country in the last six months. What kind of values does someone have to have to care more about cells in a petrie dish than the children who are already here?
Those examples aren't values. Those examples do nothing but reflect the values that are ABSENT in an egotistical moron of a president who, at his very BEST, is nothing but DANGEROUS.
And of course, let's just leave out what DixieDew said to Nan. SM
That's so much more convenient. Who's the phoney now?
The trolls appear to be gone anyway. Why leave now?
ta dum
leave out god in the pledge
Why not say the pledge which we have been brain washed to say but leave the two words out? Let those who want to hook up god with country to say in god to themselves.something I may say our forefathers did not want us to do..to put together state and church..
Because you won't leave us alone on our own board.
If you leave us alone, I'll leave you alone.
Pwnd....huh? I think you need to leave now before..
Your language skills get.... 
Love it or leave it. Is that all you got?
I am wondering if you ever see or hear youself before, during or after your tantrums. I could not find a more perfect example of what I was trying to convey than this current post, even if my life depended on it.
Ordinary, garden-variety right-wing impotence. Attacks on patriotism and America, love-it-or-leave it. Boring….surely you can do better than that. Show me where I said I was disappointed in America. Please don’t respond with another fabrication. Blind, deaf, illiterate, which is it? Guess you skated right on past the part about being “no less American” or “proud of America and the ideals we try to uphold,” in your haste to find something to assault or ridicule.
Your attempt at humor falls about as flat as McCain’s let’s-annihilate-an-entire-population and rape jokes. MSNBC is a little on the tame side for me. Next time you really want to insult a democrat, try playing the Democracy Now! and KPFT/Pacifica card. Anyone genuinely interested in alternative viewpoints on issues that NEVER make to the mainstream media might want to check them out, but you will be disappointed if you are looking for candidate, spouse and their associates bashing. As for you, Sam, enjoy Hannity. It’s preaching-to-the choir audience and content ought to make you feel right at home, all safe and validated and it's a great place to go when you need to refresh those tired tactics and stock up on mud.
You seem to be a little confused today, (gag me) “dear.” Must be the way you tow your party line and jump right in with that hostility toward facts and information. Those “elite” and “snobbish” remarks are just as inappropriate and untrue about me as they are about Obama. Let me break this down for you. The “elite,” in most contexts, refers to the wealthy, aristocratic, blue-blood, upper class… the “haves.” That world of economic and class distinction can be found on the republican planet, where all the “snobs” live. We dems are the roll-up your sleeves, blue-collar, working class, champion of the underdogs bunch…“the have-nots.” Try to keep that straight next time you need to use that ploy. Being an MT, I belong to that second clan, to be sure, since very few of us have amassed vast wealth, and it should come as no surprise that my politics arise from that place.
I think the word you are looking for to rail against would be “academic.” I don’t feel I need to excuse or defend myself for trying to be equipped with a few facts, reading a few books, taking a class or 2 or checking into misinformation. But for the life of me, I cannot understand why so many right-wingers feel so threatened by that. I do not think I am smarter than the next guy. I just don’t want to sound as dumb and ignorant, that all. In fact, the best knowledge I have was picked up on the street, at the school of hard knocks and simply being alive for so long. In any case, there are a whole bunch of academic people out there Sam. They are your fellow Americans, and every once in a while, it is their turn to speak. Do us all a favor and get over yourself, puh-leeze.
You do seem to be reasonably intelligent. Academics, like bilingualism….not fatal. Indulge yourself and try it sometime. You just might like it. IMO, you probably would be pretty good at it. It certainly is a lot more stimulating than all this mud-slinging…more inspiring, too. I’ll say it again. Intelligence is a terrible thing to waste. If you think it’s funny, it’s your loss, not mine.
This is the only chat room I ever use. I do not come here for information. I come here because of the isolation factor in the life of a work-at-home MT. At least we all have that in common and I would like to assume that we are an off-the-beaten path community of fairly intelligent folks. I do not consider chat rooms, blogs, the Internet or any network, CNN, Fox or MSNBC broadcasts to be particularly reliable sources of information. I come from the old school (don’t go ballistic on me…it’s not a 4-letter word). I feel much more comfortable with good old-fashioned investigative reporting, and I am not referring to what has been passed off as such in recent times. Here’s what is looks like: It strives to be objective and unbiased. It is exhaustive and thorough. It examines the pros and cons of an issue, presents facts and alternative viewpoints and does not edit or opine. It leaves its conclusions up to the reader. That is how one develops original thinking. Not a hat you try on to see how cute it will make you look. It is a process of protracted, lifetime pursuit.
I will not dignify your accusations of being a mouthpiece for the party with a response, although there are certain aspects of the platform that do represent where I am coming from. This is simply another conclusion you have jumped to with great glee, and is a pitifully transparent avoidance of engaging any of the real issues I have raised. I will also pass on the delusions or grandeur dig…. (yawn) just more of the same senseless mud-slinging you seem to enjoy so much.
I am not interested in repeating myself on the immigrant issue since you’re not listening anyway….waste of time. I most certainly do see the Americans in my midst. I am one of them. You missed the point (no surprise there). I try not to respond to all those “shoulds.” Awfully one-dimensional, if you ask me, and besides, they do nothing to shed light on the topic, nor do they lead us to any viable solutions. BTW, show me where I said I want you to be Ethiopian or Cuban. Not. I want you to let them be Ethiopian-Americans, Cuban-Americans, etcetera. Assimilation is a HUGE issue with many facets and is way too complex to comprehend in the absence of the ability to put oneself into another’s shoes. Besides, I am sure that assimilation does not mean the same thing to you as it does to me. But I am glad you brought this up, because it plays into the broader issue of what it means to be an American, past, present and future.
You are most definitely not prepared to have any meaningful exchange on why immigrants come here and, yes, I can agree with at least one thing you said. Things aren’t so great where they come from. The question is why….and furthermore, that subject requires the ability to listen and respond to some honest and humbling self-examination and (gasp) criticism of the good ole US. Being the superpower that we are, it would be foolish to deny that US foreign policy failures have not played a significant role in that arena. I’ll go there with someone who is not quite as, shall we say, “sensitive” on that subject.
It may come as a shock to you that Americans are not one huge homogenous monolith that agrees with your vision of what America should or should not be. Quite the contrary. We are allowed to be diverse in our ideas and lifestles, without the fear of persecution. Spare me those chest-beating lectures on patriotism and your sanitized American utopian ideal. I read the DAR old home week posts but kept my distance. I will inject these two comments, which I am sure you will find offensive….oh well. American Indians have LOTS of issues between themselves and the US government….still. If nobody ever hears complaints from them, it is not from lack of trying. It would be because their news never makes it to mainstream media, but they do get weekly air time on Pacifica. They are not silent. Nobody is listening, and to our eternal shame, nobody cares and never did. They would not exactly be delighted to be dragged out in a horse-and-pony exhibition as mutt ancestors of non-Native Americans who would use their heritage in a whose-more-American contest. In fact, they remain pretty big on the idea of preserving their own ethnic purity. Not a whole lot of room there for the DAR. Last time I checked, they take their pride in being aboriginal natives who live in sovereign nations…not exactly receptive to the kind of assimilation you have in mind. Bet their vision of the REAL America wouldn’t look anything like yours.
In any case, it’s a brand new day in the USA. This is not 1800 and its not 1900…globalization is here, and it’s not going away. We unleashed it with our own hands and now it’s time to grow up and deal with what it all means. The face of the earth will never look the same again and there is no going back to the good old days. Sorry about that. Breaking news. There are around 50,000 illegal Irish immigrants in the US. Granted, they are English speaking but not AMERICAN English. What WILL we do with them all….round them up and ship this back across the Atlantic? Would that be all right with you?
That Krushchev remark was asinine and completely off the wall. I know you were trying to be cute and I got the general drift about his prediction and “without firing a shot.” You would like to misconstrue this and use it to bolster your immigration argument. Have it your way. Lets go there. I was alive and kicking, we had a TV and I was old enough to understand the report and the broadcast. I remember what happened. One shoe incident (there were a few) was an angry gesture on his part in a heated exchange with the Filipino minister during a rant against Western colonialism/imperialism. The prediction you cite was a completely different occasion, and was made in reference to the cold war, boasting that America's children would be living under communism without firing a shot. He couldn’t care less about the illegal immigration “problems” in the US. In fact, back then there was not a whole lot of that anyway. So enlighten me, oh Wise One. What truth am I missing here?
The degree of bigotry you hold inside yourself is hateful, a viewpoint shared by a majority of Americans on both sides of the aisle. Before you get your drawers in an uproar and start dragging out the denial defense, lets look at what Merriam Webster has to say. Bigot = “One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.” Never heard you talk about religion, but by all other counts, you qualify. It is as exhaustive for you to nurture that kind of hatred as it is for anyone who tries to reason with you about it. Be a bigot. It’s a free country. But let it be known that as long as bigotry continues to exact its toll of division among us and inflicts the pain and suffering that it so obviously fosters, there will always be legions of us who will stand up against it. I am only being realistic about what lies ahead of all of us in terms of globalization. Stick your head in the sand. No problem. But it’s coming and there is really no force on earth that is going to stop that train.
Even an 8th grader knows that Nazis failed in creating a pure race. Nothing cute at all about the suffering that that kind of bigotry caused. If you feel that strongly about the pure race and making time stand still, maybe you should start a secession movement.
Hannity is too ill-informed, way too pathetic and just downright too stupid to push any of my buttons but he should be right up your alley...2 of a kind. Throw that therapy insult at someone else. Play time is over and it’s time for me to get out of the sandbox and go home.
In closing, you couldn’t recognize an issue if it came up kicked you in the face. Takes no talent whatsoever to get down there in the dirt where you seem to feel so much at home. Unfortunately, you set the tone for the responses you get. Anyone interested in answering you has to sink to your level just to have a conversation with you. Not all of us get our kicks like that and certainly I have much better ways to spend my time.
Let me know if you ever find your way past all those obnoxious personal attacks, clichéd catch phrases, dodges, deflections and deceptions and actually want to wrap your brain around some real issues. In the meantime, I won’t be back in sandbox at least for the next couple of days…looking to change my job. I know you will miss me just about as much as I will miss you. When I come back, I’ll be dialing it back a notch or two….this drivel is certainly not worth getting kicked off the board over.
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