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right on, it is about justice, not about taking sides!...nm

Posted By: () on 2009-06-11
In Reply to: Please explain WHY being against - Marmann

nm


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Both sides should have a choice, on both sides, pregnant woman and doctor...nm
bm
OT but this is justice LOL sm


Now we'll see if the justice system REALLY ..


Would this justice be able to separate

her religious views from legal views?  Apparently NOT, if, during this secret conference call, a very select few Americans were privy to the information that, in fact, she WOULD overturn Roe v. Wade because of her religious beliefs.


If religion can't be a reason to exclude someone from the bench, it likewise can't be used as a reason to INCLUDE someone on the bench, as Bush attempted to do as a way to reassure his base *wink, wink, nod, nod* that they shouldn't worry, *She's one of US.*


That's only one troubling aspect of her nomination, though.  Even Robert Bork *borked* her, saying she is a *disaster* and that she was a terrible writer.


The fact that she's judged Bush to be the most *brilliant* man she's ever met casts even further doubt about her ability to *judge* (but I admit that's an extension of my personal opinion and doesn't really count).


John Roberts is reported to be a very devout Catholic, yet nobody raised an eyebrow about that because his religion was never an issue.  Bush himself MADE it an issue.


Can you name me even ONE evangelical who would NOT vote to overturn Roe? 


It's becoming clearer and clearer every day that this woman was nominated (1) because she's a Bush crony and (2) because she will guarantee that Roe will be overturned based on her own personal beliefs, not based on established legal precedent.


actually the justice screwed up
The Justice screwed up the wording of the oath, putting the word faithfully in the wrong place. If you looked at Obama, you can see he has a look of surprise on his face, and I think that is what threw him off. I think he knew the oath and was a little bewildered when the justice said it wrong.
Oh sure, blame it on the justice.
to finish is sentence for the O to repeat it. Gee whiz. Blame Bush for everything and now blame other people instead of O?
Actually, blinded by the need for truth and justice.

You know, the laws this country was founded on.  Tell me where it's written that our troops fight overseas and are killed for a corrupt president who LIES?????  They are fighting for oil and power, not our safety.  And we're supposed to just pretend it isn't so?  Even Colin Powell can't remain silent about Bush's treachery. 


Every justice has their own affiliations and leanings

Ruth Bader Ginsberg is a card carrying member of the ACLU with all it's wackiness.


It's only when a conservative is nominated that they better not have affiliations with anything *gasp* religious or conservative leaning.


Not buying that double standard.  Nice try though...


SOS, justice lifetime term. nm
x
also, Obama did not flub the oath - the justice did - nm
x
Obama's Justice: Reconciliation, Not Retribution

by: Cynthia Boaz, t r u t h o u t | Perspective


photo
President Barack Obama. (Photo: Gerald Herbert / AP)



    In the wake of Sen. Patrick Leahy's (somewhat) surprising and determined call for a Truth Commission to investigate the abuses of the Bush-Cheney administration, the Obama administration has been - to many progressives and those on the left of center - disturbingly silent. It's safe to say that the president's less-than-forceful position on the issue has been a source of intense criticism and skepticism from the left about the president's sincerity regarding his claims to promote a new era of transparency and accountability in American politics.


    These concerns reflect a fundamental misunderstanding of the president's perspective as well as his role. A Truth Commission is a serious matter. In societies overcoming severe oppression or wrongdoing, Truth (or Truth and Reconciliation) Commissions can serve a critical role in healing the wounds wrought by the injustices and can promote much-needed trust, goodwill and reconciliation between the various parties. Peru, South Africa, Morocco and East Timor are just a few of the places where TRCs have helped their societies heal and have facilitated reform by acknowledging past wrongs and ensuring that the horrors of history will not be repeated.


    Night after night, on radio talk shows, disgruntled, self-identified progressives call in to inform the host and her audience that we (the American people) can - in fact - "walk and chew gum at the same time" (a response to the argument on the part of some Obama defenders that now - in the midst of the worst economic crisis in decades - is simply not the right time to focus our energies on a task of this magnitude - that such an effort would be an irresponsible distraction). Those folks, many of whom, frankly, invoke images of villagers wielding torches and pitchforks, are sadly missing the point.


    For starters, the Obama administration has taken as its primary goal the mission of reconciliation, not retribution. Although his efforts have been thus far frustrated by a small but dogmatic segment of the Republican Party, Obama is, in the truest sense, a unifier. It is simply not the style - politically or personally - of this president to seek the same sort of "justice" desired by the pitchfork-wielding villagers. In the mind of this president (I imagine, anyway) emphasis on punishing wrongdoers runs the risk - especially in this very politically contentious climate - of only promoting divisions and inflaming precisely the wrong emotions necessary for a culture of healing - namely, anger, hostility and the desire for vengeance. To wit: one caller to a progressive radio show stated (apparently oblivious to the irony) that "Bush should be publicly shamed." Surely this person - and others like him - do not seriously believe that the appropriate response to the culture of impunity we've been subject to for the past eight years is the subsequent creation of a culture of retribution.


    This is not to say that the president does not hold a high regard for the rule of law, or that Bush and the others should not be held accountable for their misdeeds - which in some cases, appear to rise to the level of crimes against humanity. To the contrary - and this brings me to my second point - the rule of law can only truly be applied in an environment that is as independent from political motive as possible. If Obama were to come out openly advocating the seeking of legal retribution for the crimes of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the others, it could not but be regarded (accurately, in my view) as a political maneuver. Such an event would degrade the president's legitimacy by rendering his tactics no better than those of the people he would seek to prosecute. While the president certainly can (and should) not hinder the prosecution of his predecessor and his administration should another state (who can use the ICC) or entity (such as an organized group wishing to file a class-action suit against the previous administration for harm to the group as a whole - e.g. taxpayers organization, veterans groups, etc.), it is not the job of the president himself to seek such "justice." Directly punishing their predecessors is something done by tyrants in authoritarian regimes, not by legitimate, democratic leaders in an open society. This is why it was the widely revered cleric Desmond Tutu, rather than the newly elected President Nelson Mandela, who led South Africa's own Truth and Reconciliation Commission at the conclusion of Apartheid in that country.


    As Americans and democratic citizens, we have an obligation to acknowledge the truth about our recent shared past and its present consequences. But this can only legitimately be done by those whose job it is to hold leaders accountable in a democratic society - the people. And it can only justly be motivated by a genuine desire to adhere to the rule of law, not by a desire to seek political retaliation. Otherwise, our collective hope for evolution beyond the stains of our recent past is nothing more than a facade for our complicity in politics as usual.


    --------

    Cynthia Boaz is assistant professor of political science at Sonoma State University, where she specializes in political development, quality of democracy and nonviolent struggle.


Justice Roberts messed it up, Obama knew that. sm
He could not repeat it as Roberts stated it because it was wrong. He correctly paused in order to give Justice Roberts the opportunity to state it correctly so that he (Obama) could repeat the oath correctly.
Gotta post one more on O's picks-Dept of Justice

This is getting ridiculous.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iVg2jiaBA1jwVfCdsisXI0FbZD0AD965BKCG0


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29030191/


 


He got a look when Biden was making wise cracks about Justice Roberts at the swearing in. sm
I think when he is under stress he has a hard time hiding how he feels, but I think it is more a sign that he is honest about his feelings, not that he is going to act out in some crazy way.
Obama Justice Department Decision Will Allow Non-Citizens to Register to Vote in Georgia

Georgia Secretary of State Karen Handel issued the following statement following the U.S. Department of Justice’s denial of preclearance of Georgia’s voter verification process


Atlanta - “The decision by the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) to deny preclearance of Georgia’s already implemented citizenship verification process shows a shocking disregard for the integrity of our elections. With this decision, DOJ has now barred Georgia from continuing the citizenship verification program that DOJ lawyers helped to craft. DOJ’s decision also nullifies the orders of two federal courts directing Georgia to implement the procedure for the 2008 general election. The decision comes seven months after Georgia requested an expedited review of the preclearance submission.


“DOJ has thrown open the door for activist organizations such as ACORN to register non-citizens to vote in Georgia’s elections, and the state has no ability to verify an applicant’s citizenship status or whether the individual even exists. DOJ completely disregarded Georgia’s obvious and direct interest in preventing non-citizens from voting, instead siding with the ACLU and MALDEF. Clearly, politics took priority over common sense and good public policy.
 
“This process is critical to protecting the integrity of our elections. We have evidence that non-citizens have voted in past Georgia elections and that more than 2,100 individuals have attempted to register, yet still have questions regarding their citizenship. Further, the Inspector General’s office is investigating more than 30 cases of non-citizens casting ballots in Georgia elections, including the case of a Henry County non-citizen who registered to vote and cast ballots in 2004 and 2006.


“It is important to underscore that not a single person has come forward to say he or she could not vote because of the verification process. Further, while DOJ argues that the process is somehow discriminatory, the historic voter turnout among Hispanic and African-American voters in the 2008 general elections clearly says otherwise.


“This decision provides a specific example of the inherently illogical and unfair nature of Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act. It is a sad day for the rights of our state and for the integrity of our elections. I remain committed to continuing the fight for citizenship verification. In the coming days, I will consider every option available to the state, including the possibility of legal action.”


Background:


As required by law and ordered by federal courts in October 2008, the eligibility of new applicants to register and vote is checked against the Georgia Department of Driver Services (DDS) and Social Security Administration databases to ensure that individuals registering to vote report similar information. If information in these databases does not match information reported on the voter registration form, the applicant is asked to clarify the information. Additionally, if the applicant previously reported to DDS that he or she is not a U.S. citizen, that person is asked by a registrar to provide proof of citizenship.


Prior to the November 2008 General Election, Secretary Handel sent letters to 4,771 voter registration applicants whose records at DDS indicated they were not U.S. citizens, asking them to provide documentation of their citizenship. As of March 2009, 2,148 of these applicants still have chosen not to resolve the question about their U.S. citizenship.


In the November 2008 General Election, county election officials reported that 599 individuals cast a challenged ballot because the voter had previously indicated to DDS that he or she was not a United States citizen and had not resolved their status with county officials at the time of the election. Of those, 369 ballots were accepted because the voter provided documentation of their citizenship after the election; and 230 were rejected because the individual chose not to confirm his or her citizenship status.


On October 10, 2008, activist organizations including the Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund (MALDEF) and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) filed a lawsuit to attempt to prevent Georgia from verifying the eligibility of applicants to register and vote in the November General Election, including whether those individuals were citizens of the United States.


On October 16, 2008, U.S. District Court Judge Jack Camp denied the motion by MALDEF and ACLU; directed the State to continue the verification process; and acknowledged the State’s requirements to verify information under the Help America Vote Act. In his order, Judge Camp stated:


HAVA requires that Defendant Handel match information in the statewide voter registration database with information from the Georgia DDS and the SSA databases “to the extent necessary to enable each such official to verify the accuracy of the information provided on the applications for voter registration.”


Judge Camp also stated: ...


I'm taking this to the top.
x
Exactly....and that happens on both sides...
in all seriousness...without the jibes...I have two big issues with the Dem candidates, that being the abortion issue and the endless tax and spend for social programs. I am not against social programs, I am just against the waste associated with it and the constant assault on the paycheck. The average in the US is 30-35% of your paycheck off the top in taxes. Can't we all agree that is enough? Why create more programs or throw more money at programs that aren't working? Why not look at the programs and cut the waste. Look to helping people better themselves instead of pushing assistance higher up the income ladder. Because it is we in the middle class who suffer the most. Pretty soon there will not be any middle class at all, because they will then be the working poor on the assistance that goes higher up the ladder.

There is such a thing as a conservative Democrat...who believes in fiscal responsibility.

And I will be the first one to say that the Bush Adminstration has strayed way away from that...fiscal responsibility. While I agree with him on some things...I sure don't agree with him on that.

I fear Hillary's national health plan because I know Canada's is not working the way it should...and it is horribly expensive to the taxpayer. Up there, their median is 50-55% of their taxes off the top, and the #1 place for that money to go is the universal health care. And even if you have the money to pay for an operation, you can't jump the waiting list. Hence, they come here for it.

I would just hope that whoever wins will look at the long-reaching ramifications before just jumping in. Be that Hillary or a Republican....because I do think Hillary will get the nomination. I can't see it go any other way...unless something drastic happens between now and the primary. Of course, we won't see all the ugliness (on both sides) until a little later. I guess the proof will be in the pudding.
What do you have against 2 sides
su
Yes, they can be - on BOTH sides.
Someone makes a wise crack about it being nice to have someone with a triple digit IQ - when in FACT they don't know what Bush's IQ is OR the possible that Barack has a higher OR lower IQ score. The problem is the people who post don't know. They have just an outright hatred and loathing for the republicans. Well how would they feel if I went and said Obama has an IQ of 68 or something so absurd. They wouldn't. You know what, having a high IQ doesn't mean squat. I know a lot of people with degrees and high IQs and they are more of imbs than people without degrees. Just another put down for Bush they they think is cute and funny. It's not! We get it already. They don't like Bush, they hate him, and some of them like my MIL will come right out and say what they want to happen to Bush (i.e. the same thing Hillary said would happen to BO and that is why she is staying in).

I'm really getting tired of the utter hatred and disdain for Bush, and the constant Bush bashing I see on this board. Calling him stoopid, etc, etc. when there are no facts to back it up (unless they are sitting with his school transcipts on their desk). You know I like Obama. I think he's an okay guy. I don't care for Bush. Never have, but this utter hatred and lies get to be a bit too much. Then of course they find websites to try to "validate" what they are saying, yet they won't post websites that go against what they are saying. I'm just sick of the whole thing. The next 4 years should be interesting. Not going to say O is going to fail, but I'm also not putting him up on a pedistal and praising him while I dance around in circles chanting his name like most on this board are doing. Then again if he does fail I expect no comments from the libs on that one. For him it will be okay.
So you are taking up for the thugs
who are keeping the rescuers from help.  You are mentally deranged....very mentally deranged.
doing taking tempature???
I get it now. You figure if you spout enough of your illiteracy on the Liberal board, you will dumb us down to your level.
Taking a survey...
Anyone have any thoughts on Romney being Mormon, will it hurt, help, doesn't matter....Did he convert to Mormonism; I don't remember his father being a Mormon.
Taking this response
x
I'm taking this to the top to enlist
nm
THis is not about taking anything away from kids...they
still have access to birth control...health departments, planned parenthood, clinics, any number of places. It is common knowledge. You hear about it on television on a daily basis, and television, movies, and the internet are where most kids get their information. And frankly, listen to it much more closely than to their parents. Throwing more federal money into any kind of sex ed and/or abstinence programs to me is a waste of money. That was the original question, did I think federal funds should be used for sex ed and abstinence programs.

No, in this culture we live in today, to remove contraception would be idiotic. Sex has been reduced to "expression," having one partner for life has disappeared, multiple partners are fine, yada yada...in that kind of culture to remove birth control would be nuts. Think what the abortion rate would be if that was done...good grief.

By education and programs that doesn't mean dispensing actual birth control. At many schools kids can get condoms. Nearly every health department in the country will dispense birth control and any planned parenthood place will, and that is not going to change.

If you want to reach kids, put those programs on the internet or introduce that kind of information to the shows the kids watch all the time. If you want the information to get to them, that is where it should be covered.
Thank you for taking the time to lay it all out
They will immediately go to Palin flaming because that's all they have. They can never refute any proof made on this board because they can't find any to refute with. Instead, they keep going round and round with the only thing they can remember from TV, Palin this, Palin that.

You don't see the republicans putting down Biden because they are decent people, unlike the dems on this board who refuse to see. AND, the dems on this board know that Biden LOVES McCain and they know in their hearts Biden can't stand Obama; he already said so.
God isn't the problem....taking God out of our
=
fabulous? When he is taking away a better one?
Letting Bush's tax cuts expire? Have you done the math?
profit taking
The rules have not changed yet and the hedge funds are still running loose, betting ups, betting downs. Everything they were doing to get us into this mess is still going on and still legal. Leverage is still high.
Taking money out
is actually a good idea, since there has been talk of bank runs under the current situation THAT IS NOW HAPPENING UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH.
For me, taking time every now and then
to look back and reflect on what we come from, where we're at, how far we've come and how far we have yet to go is a good thing. An Abe-Lincoln themed inauguration seems to be as appropriate of an occasion as any. I cannot pretend to understand how it feels to have the pain of slave ancestors' stories dragged up and thrust in my face, but I can speak to pain of a different sort.

The sight of hordes of GWTW southern belles all bedecked en masse in pools of pastel puke conjures up the shame I inherited from my own white ancestors. As a child, I felt plenty of it growing up in a southern metropolis in the 50s where cotton was still king and the vestiges of plantation life were still palpable and, at times, visceral. As a child, I lived in a wealthy community where some household "help" still stayed in "servants' quarters" behind the main residence (gag me). These were the days of segregation and separate but unequal when and the "N" word was still socially acceptable.

Enter MLK and the revolution of the 60s and 70s that turned our country up-side-down, thank you Jesus. The progress has been slow but steady since then, but the fact that I can still feel the stinging shame of where I came from and that you can still feel such outrage over a historical parade lets us both know that we have not yet reached the Promised Land.

When I watch the Azalea Trail Maids next Tuesday, they will not be marching toward me. They do not have the power to bring back the past and slap me in the face with it. Every step they take will be one step further away, back into a time we best not forget anytime soon, and I will be reminding myself that they are indeed GONE WITH THE WIND.

PS. I too am hoping for brisk winds that whip right past those pretty pastel pantaloons and chill them straight to the bone.
I appreciate you taking time out....(sm)

to respond to my post in such a reasonable and adult manner.  Keep up the good work!  You must be so proud.


Government is taking over
everything and they aren't even smart enough to run the government let alone every business in the US.  I just cannot believe you Obamabotics find this okay.  This is total government control going on here!!!!  This is scary crap!
Thank you for taking the time
I appreciate your reasonable and well-composed argument. I do see how recent actions by this administration could be construed as a power grab, but what actions do think they should have taken instead?

Regarding the private sector argument, if a company accepts federal funding to bail them out of a financial crisis, are they still truly a private company, at least until the money is paid back? I do not agree with all the actions of this administration with respect to the financial crisis, but I do think they had to demonstrate that there are strings attached to receiving taxpayer money. (I may not agree with how they choose to about demonstrating that, however.)
So you are taking the word of
a guy who others consider a little off, Jolie's father? Not a good selection. Can you do better?
Uh...that isn't what I said. I said it happens all the time and both sides do it.
Are you sure you read MY post?  Just wondering because it didn't sound like it from your response.  Man, you guys are trigger happy!
Is good, but not see here. Sad for all both sides.
x
Could it be possible there are 2 sides to the story? sm
The US, UK, and Israel also have a long and colorful history of 'creating incidents' to further their own agendas. I would say control of the Middle East is something at the top of the list. Hezbollah is wrong to send rockets into Israel. In fact, they are all wrong, but what do you expect them to do just wait there and be incinerated by Israel?
I'm sure both sides are represented.
There are soldiers for the war and those against.  It's all there if you look hard enough.  Absolutely....both sides are well represented.
Both sides say things like that
Obviously, living up someone's rear-end is not something that is to be taken literally - that is why I called it a joke - maybe not the best terminology.

My problem is when people say things about certain groups of people and they mean it literally - hence the reason that I specifically mentioned Anne Coulter's discussion and did not add anyone else mentioned in the OP's message.

This kind of crass talk happens on both sides of the fence. Do you have anyone in your family that is a registered Democrat? Do you lump them in with your comments about liberals? (also in comments on the conservative board) I have close family members that are registered Republicans. That is why I do not make sweeping remarks about all Republicans or conservatives. I'm trying to be very specific in my comments because everyone is obviously different.
Racism is on both sides......not just one
xx
Both sides of this issue.....sm
The emotional part of me, that loves wildlife, absolutely and completely hates this practice. The governor before Gov. Palin did this, as well.

Intellectually, however, my husband and I talked about this last night. I have to realize that things are different in the state of Alaska, and we down here in the lower 48 can't judge them for this, as we don't understand all the facts. Sam posted them down below. It's a different mindset, when it comes to predator control versus the herd availability for the people of Alaska who are subsistence hunters, and need that caribou to make it through the winter.

I would much rather to let nature take its course, and let the predator and prey take each other out, the way nature intended it. However, throw humans in the mix, and it does change things.

All that taken into account, I still don't have to like it. But I can respect Alaska's decision to do this, even if I disagree.
Yep. there are two sides to every story....
you just have to choose the side that fits your view for your country. Godspeed in your search. :)
On ALL sides--does not necessarily mean sm
this fiasco is partisan--only that the current administration (GOP) allowed all entities to run amok. It's the financial world versus the common man, now vice versa. As one pundit said tonight, The public shouldn't have to pick up the broken chairs when they weren't invited to the party.



Hey, the hate has come from both sides.
It's so extreme now.
There are SMs from both sides of the fence
Take the above posts, for example:

Fitzgerald renews interest in Rezko-Obama deal

If you read anything on here, read this.

This should disturb every honorable citizen

Your stereotypes are inaccurate and pretty boring.
I can see both sides of the argument
Yes, many people are getting threatened and businesses getting picketed for supporting Prop 8. You cannot deny that (what was the pink taliban or whatever that disrupted church service a month or so ago?)

But on the other hand, if they want these donations anonymous, than that means Obama and other politicians can make their donations anonymous, and I think it's the publics right to know who is financing the next leaders of the country.

I just find it interesting that the homosexuals are assaulting and threatening supporters of the Prop 8 for what they believe in when they themselves are asking for fair treatment for what they believe in.
I am patriotic. I look at both sides.

It's certain people that refuse to look at the PRESENT ISSUES, not the PAST. I am all for O doing the right things, but right now, it looks like business as usual with the exception of his cabinet picks and this stimulus package.


Sticking to the issues is one thing. Calling some unpatriotic just because they don't agree with you is another.


nasty on all sides
Can't we just state our opinions without calling each other "idiots" and "children?"  Does that really enhance the argument?  Ever?
There is ignorance on both sides here.

As a Christian, I would appreciate it if people would leave this type of subject out of our children's education.  It is not unreasonable to ask since we have given up God and prayer in the schools to accommodate those who do not believe. 


There are some people who will ridicule the act as well as the person as you can clearly see when we get on the subject of homosexuality.  But you cannot group all of us into this category.  I do not agree with that lifestyle but having no reason to treat them poorly.  That is what I want to teach my children.  We may not agree but we cannot be mean to them. 


However, I cannot stand by and allow the teaching that homosexuality is okay.  It is too controversial of a topic for that to be taught in schools.....just like religion.  I can teach my children acceptance of people without teaching acceptance of a lifestyle we don't agree with and I would appreciate it if schools wouldn't undermine my authority on that subject. 


You don't see me going around forcing religion on children who I know has parents who don't believe in God and don't want their kids hearing about God.


I was merely stating there are TWO sides....
to every story. I have not taken sides, as apparently you have. That is all I am saying. The Palestinians are not without fault either, and their present governing body are on the terror watch list. That should mean something....?