right, al the young and educated, progressive
Posted By: () on 2009-06-13
In Reply to: It wouldn't surprise me if it broke out....(sm) - Just the big bad
people voted for Mousavi. Even before all the votes were in, the government already announced a landslide win for Ahmedinejad. Definitely fraud, Ahmedinejad's ratings before the elections were very low, high unemployment rate. How could he win?
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
They're a lot more progressive and educated.
I'll take progressive-thinking, educated liberals any day
8)
A note about educated and un-educated
I think a lot of people get the two mixed up. They believe that if you have a degree you are educated. Anyone can go to school, sit through classes, study and take a test. That's the easy part. The hard part (IMHO) is for people to receive information, process it, understand it, and make their own informed decisions. I have a sister who has a 4 year degree and graduated from a college, but she is not educated on the policies or what is going on in the country and around the world. Also have a brother & brother in-law with their degrees. One understands the issues presented to us, the other, like my sister only knows what they were taught in class, and they tell me that the instructors would not lie to them so they will believe what their instructors taught them. You ask them about a policy or why laws were put into place, ask them to talk to you about what's going on in the country/world, etc, and they cannot answer.
Then there are those who did not receive a "formal" education yet when you talk to them you can have an honest intelligent discussion with them. They ask questions and give input. They share information and think on their own.
Therefore the two really need to be separated.
Education = informed and able to think and process information without being told how to think. This can include both people with degrees and without.
Uneducated - blindly following what someone tells you what to do and how to think. You have no ideas of your own and just mimic the words of others. This can include both people with degrees and without.
Progressive new sources
On reviewing the posts below, I see someone has supplied you with a number of conservative sources to investigate. For the sake of balance, here is a list I prepared a few days back of progressive sources that will also give some insight into the Obama camp and their beliefs. You could Google around with this list, but don't be overwhelmed. In my personal opinion, the Democracy Now! Amy Goodman is a nice all-round overview of all the others. Here's that link and the list.
http://www.democracynow.org/
Democracy Now! with Amy Goodman
Ariana Huffington.
Bill Mahar.
Bill Moyers.
Indymedia.
Independent Press Association (IPA)
Chris Matthews
Keith Olberman
Richard Dreyfuss
Helen Thomas
Jim Hightower
Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR)
Naomi Klein
Al-Jazeera English
Jeremy Scahill
Robert Scheer
Nir Rosen
Allan Nairn
James Steele
John Ghazvinian
Seymour Hersh
Scotter Ritter
The Nation
Rolling Stone
Mother Jones
The American Prospect
Greg Palast
why progressive taxation?
Two answers:
1. Because it's good for the economy. Money doesn't exist to stagnate in pools; it has to move.
2. Because it's the moral thing to do. If you have for example a flat 10% income tax, a millionaire will flinch, but a poor man will starve.
progressive taxation
See, DNH, the thing I'm getting at is, it already *is* my money. My money, your money, it's being taken already, and given to people who don't work, billionaires who have not a worry in the world.
Your example of a 25% tax rate is even better than mine. That guy making 60,000, he's making 45,000 after taxes. Well and good--it was a big bite of his income, but he can still afford his house and to feed his kids. But what about the guy making 30,000? Suddenly he's making 22,500 a year, and how's he going to pay his heating bill this winter? He can't afford food, he can't make rent.
So what looks initially like equal treatment, is actually something far different: A neglible weight on the wealthy, a noticeable burden on the middle class, and a death sentence on the lower class.
The incentive argument doesn't work, either. During the height of taxation in the 50s, the economy grew at a healthy rate, and it grew by making things, building things, actual goods and services, not the fake growth we've seen in the recent low-tax decades, where all the wealth is made up of obscure financial instruments that nobody understands.
People don't give up their dreams because they fear a high tax rate. They give up their dreams because suddenly they can't afford food anymore, and they're going to get thrown out of their houses, and their kids are going to be dressed in rags, because every dime they worked so hard for is being redistributed right on up into the hands of billionaires.
What if it were my money? I'd rather every dime I had go to the poor, than yet another penny wind up in somebody's else's hedge fund.
I a progressive politically. Sounds like it. nm
nm
Tax cuts, progressive tax system, social programs
are as American as apple pie and these same policies and initiatives can be found puncuating the pages of our history from the day of our country's inception.
You do not understand Marxism or socialism, or you would be a lot more exercised by the current redistribution of wealth that takes your tax dollars and moves them upward to an elite ruling class that represses and undermines the middle class at the drop of a hat. State ownership of banks, lending institutions and direct personal property "buy outs" (as proposed by McCain certainly smack of Marxism and are not exactly what you could call traditional American values.
They towed Bush's line for 6 long years. Ask any progressive
better still, branch out and listen to opposing media views, including progressive radio and newspapers...those guys have yet to get mainstream coverage. To get any kind of decent international coverage, one is forced to go to media source outside of our own country. You might be REALLY surpised at what you find there. Get real.
As a mom of 3 young men, I remember
vividly the day my oldest left for the Air Force. He was 19. There was no war. Then son #2 left in the National Guard in 1991 during Desert Storm.
I have to give her credit for even being able to speak, let alone hold up under fire, right after sending her son off to war!
You may be too young to remember, but that is what..sm
they said about John F. Kennedy and we all know what happened with that election and Nixon's loss, eventual election, and ultimate disgrace to our country. Most would have said Nixon was more qualified and had more experience. What do you think?
You must be quite young. It is an old saying originating..sm
from an actual doll that talked when you pulled the string. Chatty Cathy
Okay, pull it on.........young man said it with
xx
Wow you were married that young!
That's the crazy thing I read in any of your posts. LOL. Just kidding. Been with my DH since I was 18 but didn't get married until I was 25 and we decided to have kids. Good luck.
You must be too young to remember the 50s and 60s.
Can't get past the first laughable faulty premise that would have us believe there has never been an illegal election in the US. Discredits your entire post.
Thank god Im still young enough for someone to tell me to Grow up
LOL
PS I did not hear that on TV
Did you see the one about the young guy who worked
at McDonald's for 4 1/2 years? He couldn't get another job and wanted to know what O was going to do about it. I was absolutely shocked!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TptsP4ryido&feature=related
You must be pretty young if you
.
better educated does not always
equal more intelligent. don't people get that?
Well, here's some of your educated
answers:
“He was born and educated in America.” He spent 10 years in Indonesia.
“What you are saying is ridiculous” yet you don’t back it up with anything.
“Are you kidding me?” and don’t back it up with anything.
“I am a refined democrat” but don’t give reasons why.
“What’s this nonsense” yet nothing to back it up?
and my favorite:
“Why should an American President be born in the US?
This should be amended. It is old fashioned.
A child born to illegal immigrants in the US can become an American President.
Is this LOGIC?”
This means you don’t care if who runs for president from other countries, even terrorists. Way to go!
They not only *prey* on young people
but they are so desperate to find kids to die in Iraq that they even take kids on drugs and teach these kids how to pass a drug test so they can get in the military.
I think you underestimate the young minds...sm
Thought I'll agree the walkout probably was not for political reasons so much so as for what they believe is right. Do you think they probably have a lot of respect for this teacher? Maybe. It is possible to be passionate about something other than cutting class as a teenager. I know I was, and so is my daughter who just turned 13.
I also have to give you the point that the teacher should have stayed on the subject matter of the class. If you're hired to teach geography then teach geograpy BUT we don't have the privlege of seeing the course outlines, book, etc. It may not be so cut and dry as capitols, states, and what have you. So before you call for his head on a plank you should at least know that much. Whose to say that this course was not comingled with history and this teacher was within his right to bring up subjects to provoke thought. I don't see the problem with that.
Listening to the message in a whole, I don't see a problem in what the teacher said excpt that he may have deviated from the subject matter. And the fact still remains that we don't know the totality of the course description.
Young soldiers I know personally and on TV. Many
many of them felt very differently when they first went to war. After coming back they seem to come back with a very different view. Most of the soldiers I know think the war needs to end. I don't think most Americans think we should stop funding the war until the soldiers come home, and that's just it, many of us want them to come home! I watched a documentary on Showtime called Semper Fi, and it was a really moving account of a proud Marine's time in Iraq. I would definitely recommend watching it if you want to hear a first-hand account of how one patriotic soldier was disillusioned by the war and how he was given false information over and over again by his higher-ups. I don't claim to know the solution, and I know none of the candidates on either side have the perfect solution either, but I just feel that we are not making the progress we should be making, kids' mothers and fathers are dying every day in Iraq, and it makes me incredibly sad. Simple as that. I don't think we have any right to be there. I do believe we had a right to go to Afganistan, but not Iraq. That's just my feeling, and I really don't feel like getting into a huge debate about the war. I just want it to end.
She's that young? I figured McCain was at
encouraging young people to
become involved in the election process -- can anything be more CHILLING!!!!!!
I loved him in Young Riders
He's a good actor (he can play some real creepy characters). Not sure about his political viewpoints because I'm not very conservative.
the reason for young chickens...
is to keep costs low, so we can afford them--remember that chicken used to be very expensive. However, withdrawal times on steroids are such that chickens are not given steroids because they won't pass FDA standards. They are fed antibiotics in their water because with SO many in one chicken house, they are very vulnerable to disease, but no growth hormones or steroids. The faster maturing birds are due to selective breeding (short gestation=fast change). That is also why everything tastes like chicken. With the faster maturing young birds we eat, the meat actually has very little taste, so it is not as much that other things taste like chicken as it is that chicken does not really taste like anything. (I spent many unhappy classed in STINKY chicken houses in college). I HATE chickens! and Turkeys! but I do like to eat them.
I'm assuming you are quite young, am I correct in
that assumption?
in an mature and educated
community this would be ideal. Kerry thought there were enough reasonable adults to see through the Swift Boat lies and did not fight back; that is why he lost the election. I am glad Obama choses not to stoop to smear and fear. Yet to prevent another Swift Boat type election, somebody has to sling the garbage back at the same level as the bottom feeders. Its a dirty job but hey . . .
oops...that should be under-educated. (nm)
xx
Yea, they are SOOOO educated that they
be taken over by Muslim terrorists.....yea, they're really on top of it.
You are so right. You educated yourself to the issues and now sm
You realize, as I do, that Obama is going to fight for us. He is going to penalize companies who outsource. That means OUR jobs. What is up with people on this board? I am sure if they paid attention like you did they would be voting Obama too. I, like you, have dissected every bit of info this year. I watched Dem and Repub primaries, follow all of the issues and it's so completely clear that Obama is the right one.
Maybe not hicks, but obviously not educated..
enough to work hard instead of sitting on the internet, watching dancing with the stars, eating doritos and flipping through people magazine whlie waiting for their check in the mail. Sheeple will follow each other over the cliff, hope you have on your hiney is well padded!
You don't sound educated because
of some of your posts below.
I'm very educated and I voted for him
Maybe if you would take the time to educate yourself rather than just read crap on blogs, you might not worry so much. The bill is creating the Congressional Commission on Civic Service, which may be referred to as the Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act (GIVE).
In section 6104 it states
(b) Specific Topics- In carrying out its general purpose under subsection (a), the Commission shall address and analyze the following specific topics:
(6) Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.
They're simply exploring whether a national service requirement is even feasible. They're not implementing anything yet. Why people get worked up without even knowing what they're getting worked up about is beyond me. Which is why I usually stay off the political board.
I'm going back to work now.
Recruiters *prey* on young people. sm
You do realize recruiters are part of the military you scream so loudly that you support. Recruiters have always come to high schools. I happen to think that the military is a fine career. No one is twisting anyone's arm. Military has been a part of our existence since we settled here and had the calvary. You are suggesting that high school students have no free will. That isn't logical in the least.
Young black man said he signed up 73 times
xx
Do you know how many young people BUSH KILLED FOR OIL? sm
Even Palin admitted in her interview with the moron Glenn Beck that the war was at least partially about energy resources. Wise up!
college educated voter in the
suburb up the road says farmer is an ignorant redneck who does not check facts.
Then maybe that college educated voter......... sm
might like to test that theory by working a season or two in the redneck farmer's fields.
I live in an area where there are a lot of immigrant workers. The truth of the matter is that farmers really cannot afford to pay a wage high enough to be able to afford even a modest apartment, let alone buy food and pay utilities. I live right down the road from a poultry farm which employs a family of Mexican immigrants. The farmer, while making a fairly decent living (at least until Pilgrim's filed bankruptcy) provides a mobile home for the family to live in, pays utilities on said home and also pays the family wages to work on his poultry farm. No doubt this family recieves Medicaid and food stamps as well and the children probably get free lunches at school. It is very hard, if not impossible, to get Americans to work these kinds of jobs. I'm not condoning illegal immigrants, but if legal immigrants will do the job, then why not hire them?
ever heard of over-educated idiots?
mind you, i am not calling anyone that, but just stating how it is commonly understood that one can be very educated in the system, and not be too smart still. you just keep watching, and be fair to both candidates, and see if you don't see what i am talking about.
F: Obama more intelligent, better educated. nm
.
Do you consider yourself to be an intelligent educated person?
.
OBAMA 08! the only educated choice NM
Democrats are more educated and have more class sm
But I agree that Fox News watchers are easily manipulated and usually not all that bright.
Can these people not see the class that Obama has? sheesh.
Seems the EDUCATED are "whacked out" (like your president). nm
x
Who was rude? I just said she sounds young. You are just mad cuz Obama is winning
so everything i say is hateable from your point... well you can kiss my grits lady...you cannot come to my victory party... no snotty argumentative loser rednecks allowed.
It is new kid on the block as a national entity. 60 years young.
I don't need to consult Wikipedia. I've witnessed and dealt with Israeli atrocities first hand over the past 40+ years. Palestine has always been of interest to me. Israel's theft of Palestine occurred in my birth year.
In response to your oh-so-typical anti-Semite accusation, my issues are not with the people of faith in any religion. Rather, I take strong exception to the ugly politicized version of Jewish nationalism/Zionism in much the same way I do with politicized Islam. Palestinians did not make this into a religious war. For them, it is a question of national identity, as you very well know. So let's not pretend this is about hatred of Jews. The shame is on you to try to drag God into the ungodly.
My artificial intelligence includes 4 decades of dedicated research, personal acquaintance with scores of Palestinians, too numerous to count Arabs and progressive Jews who do not identify with the blood-thirsty behavior of their so-called leadership, political activism, association by marriage, relatives and the fact that I have lived in the region and experienced first-hand the devastation exacted at the hand of Israel.
Sabra and Shatila took me off any high horse I may have ever been on. You might want to remember that horror and dismount yourself. You are not talking to some ill-informed US media drone here, so don't try to clobber me with your "we were there first" nonsense. You and I both know that is hogwash and from where I sit, you are the one who is riding around in that bubble of blather.
Bottom line time. It's the occupation, stupid. Zionists will never have a moment's peace as long as they can't deal with that one universal truth. One only has to inspect the bloodshed statistics at the hands of the Israelis and the history of the wars they have fought to understand who the terrorists are and who cannot deal with the very notion of peace on earth. The ice water that runs through your veins and your lack of responsibiity and remorse over the pain and suffering Israel has caused speaks volumes about the humanitarian aspects of this tragedy.
I'm not in this for the support I may or may not get from them. For me, it is a simple question of right and wrong, but for the record, I enjoy open acceptance among my Arab friends and relatives. My relationships with them have enriched my life beyond measure.
of course he lied - but no one died - he had a young daughter to protect...
All men would lie - when, in fact, it was nobody's freakin' business........that was Hillary's problem
Is Obama an elitist because he is better educated than McCain?
What do you think makes Obama an elitist?
Palis? See what I mean about educated? typossss on an MT board? nm
nm
|
