moving this from below...some of the blame
Posted By: cj on 2008-11-18
In Reply to: Help me understand why nobody is blaming the Big 3? - Amanda
I posted this below but will say it again.
some of the blame here has to go to the American people, those who did not support industry in the US. Rush out and buy those foreign cars. it may be cheaper in the short term but in the long run....no way, it will kill us all. Can't you all see the forest through the trees. Geez louise. Complain about losing jobs in the US, complain about American businesses failing and jobs from US going overseas and then buy foreign products instead of American made and what do you expect. Do you realize the far-reaching implications of the auto industry going bust???? All the suppliers affected. And all the money that would be earned by those millions of people who will now be earning, and thus spending, nothing. That is all money that would be supporting every other business, including ours as all of those people will also lose their health benefits and seeking less medical care thus less work and less profit for us. You can put blame anywhere you want but we all deserve some of it for destroying our own economy.
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You cannot blame their moving on Obama -
They would have done that no matter who is in office and the auto bailouts started before this administration.
Don't blame Obama for the coins...blame the Franklin Mint!
The Franklin Mint has an entire series of presidential coins that are tacky and cheap looking just like everything else they manufacture.
Let's blame Clinton...Let's blame Obama.
The FACT is that Bush BECAME prez on 01/20/01. He was told by Clinton to beware!! It was Bush's duty to know, to care what was going on.... the FACT is he didn't give a rat's patooty!!! FACT is he was on vacation most of his first 7 months in office. The FACT is he stared into space for 7 minutes after being told America was under attack while kindergarteners were reading "MY PET GOAT." I am so sick of the LIES you people want to ram down my throat. And when Obama takes office, God-willing, I am positive he will be under a microscope like NO president has ever been as there is a different standard set for him and never has a president-elect undergone so much criticisizm BEFORE taking office.
moving on
still want to move to another country, preferably Canada..cant stand this country right now. all of my beliefs and love for this country are down the tubes.
Moving on
to the "legalizing marijuana thread." This one is getting boring and I need a toke!
another reason I am moving to the right.
nm
A lot of Californians are moving into
Arizona. They want to change it and make it fast-paced like California. We have a name for Californians here in Arizona but it isn't appropriate for this board.
Yeah, it's funny....but I think moving him around through all the...
different people and all the questions that were being asked was to keep him on the phone while the traces were taking place and authorities mobilized to go to his house. Whatever phone he called obviously is not the one Presidents of other countries call...lol.
Heck, maybe he figured some way of getting it off Jenna calling the White House on Ellen Degeneres' show. If they have last number re-dial at Ellen's show a lot of people probably have it...LOL. Does seem coincidental that she called the White House a few days ago and now he did...hmmmm. But no way of knowing if it was same #.
Bet he was surprised when the police showed up...lol.
Moving to top of board....this is important.
THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both of these claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where McCain called Alaska the largest state in America, he could as easily have called it the 47th largest state — by population.
REBUTTAL: She is responsible for negotiating any drilling of those resources. "Primary power" may be taxation, but she also has to oversee environmental issues, etc. She cracked the monopoly and forced oil companies to bid again, and she made a necessary portion of the bid that they address environmental issues. That was left out of the FACTS. While the population of the state may not be in proportion to the size of the state, her latest approval rating is 86%. That is unheard of. None of the other candidates enjoy that as senators from their respective states. That was also left out of the FACTS.
THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.
REBUTTAL: When the National Guard is called up within a state, the governor does have the primary responsibility of mobilization and oversight. Since she is 50 miles from Russia, having control of the National Guard in that state is certainly central to our national security. And the operative word is AFTER the unit is deployed. Making the decision to call them up and send them to war IS her decision, and DOES affect national security.
THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January of 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.
REBUTTAL: This is true. But if Democrats truly believe in hope and change, they have had since January to actually do it. Have seen zip, zilch, nada. Got news for you...Bush is not a true conservative, especially fiscally obviously. McCain is.
THE FACTS: It's true that Obama voted "present" dozens of times, among the thousands of votes he cast in an eight-year span in Springfield. Illinois lawmakers commonly vote that way on a variety of issues for technical, legal or strategic reasons. Obama, for instance, voted "present" on some abortion measures to encourage wavering legislators to do the same instead of voting "yes." Their "present" votes had the same effect as "no" votes and helped defeat the bills. Voting this way also can be a way to duck a difficult issue, although that's difficult to prove.
REBUTTAL: Bottom line, he still voted "present." If he can't make a decision on those bills, he is going to be able to make the big ones to run the country? You can't vote present in the oval office. However, he did show up to vote NO to the Infants Born Alive act...twice.
THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.
Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.
He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes over $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.
REBUTTAL: Look at this and digest it. First paragraph...Obama's plan will raise income for middle income taxpayers by 5% by 2012...he does not define "middle class." McCain's plan is going to CUT taxes across ALL levels and still raise the "middle income" by 3%. I think I will take the tax cut and the 3%. No brainer.
Obama wants to provide 80 billion in tax breaks to people who already pay almost 0 taxes. Where, pray tell, is that $80 billion going to come from?? Taxing the "rich" which will trickle down to loss of jobs and depression of the economy. Won't work. Never works. Case in point..small businesses that make more than $250,000 would see taxes rise. That is about every small family business in this country, who employ a lot of people. Just throw them all under the bus in order to cut taxes for people who pay the least taxes of all of us ANYWAY.
NO THANKS.
Seeing as you want to live as a socialist, you should consider moving to
x
Exactly. -heard a guy on tv today -moving his
nm
posted this below accidentally so moving it up
The election is over. The results are in. Whether you are pleased or displeased with the results, it is time to show some class. Gloating is not attractive or very mature either nor is continuing to bemoan all of the dire predictions. I Both Senators Obama and McCain have said it is time for Americans to come together, to work together. How about starting here and now. McCain offered a very gracious speech. Can't we follow that fine example no matter what our personal feelings might be? Let us all behave with some class. We need to deal with the government we have and put our efforts into making it work as best possible instead of childish gloating or incessant complaining. Let's put our considerable energy and knowledge to a constructive purpose and just stop behaving so badly!
If you are all about moving forward, why dont you
nm
If it is moving and a heart is beating its alive.
Your denial does not change that.
Today summed up in a moving video.
This was beautifully done!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phyrx3VuwcM&feature=related
The reason is because FL insisted on moving up the primary, despite being told NOT to. nm
x
If McCain wins, I'll be moving to Canada...Montreal
According to Bill O'Reilly...Obama moving ahead in polls! (nm)
blame
September 1, 2005
Conservatives Helped This Happen
by Dan Pashman, Senior Producer, Morning Sedition
As terrible as it is, this attack could be miniscule if, in fact, God
continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to
give us probably what we deserve. The ACLU's got to take a lot of the
blame for this…The abortionists have got to bear some of the burden for
this because God will not be mocked…I really believe that the pagans,
and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the
lesbians…all of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the
finger in their face and say, 'you helped this happen.'
- Rev. Jerry Falwell, September 13, 2001
Who can forget Jerry Falwell's infamous post-9/11 indictment of
America? 'You helped this happen,' Falwell said to the majority of
Americans, who disagree with him on a majority of issues.
Now, a conservative group called Columbia Christians for Life has
proclaimed that Hurricane Katrina was another one of God's punishments,
citing as evidence the supposed resemblance between the hurricane's
image on a weather map, and a fetus.
Trying to refute such claims from these zealots is truly an exercise in
futility. But searching for explanations after a disaster of Katrina's
magnitude is not. And if you do in fact search for those explanations,
you'll reach an unavoidable conclusion:
Hurricane Katrina may have been an act of God. But the level of death
and destruction it caused was not. That was an act of conservatism.
It is conservative policies that made this natural disaster unnaturally
catastrophic. I say to conservatives, you have blood on your hands
today. I point the finger in your face and say, You helped this
happen.
Conservative policies have led to an increase in poverty across the
nation, especially in New Orleans, one of the poorest major cities in
America. About 150,000 people in New Orleans lived below the poverty
line before Katrina, 100,000 of them in abject poverty, making less
than $8,000 a year. Their poverty left them with nowhere to go, and no
means of escape, as the hurricane bore down on their homes.
Conservative policies have led to more global warming, which scientists
agree has already begun producing more intense hurricanes and storms.
Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour, a former Republican Party Chairman
and longtime GOP operative, has seen his own state ravaged by Katrina.
But he was vital in helping to convince the Bush administration to
squash the Kyoto Protocol on climate change, and pushed Bush to go
back on his campaign promise to regulate carbon dioxide. Governor
Barbour would dare express grief over the deaths that he himself
enabled.
Conservative policies have led to a war in Iraq based on lies, and tax
cuts for the rich, both of which, we know for a fact, took money
directly away from vital hurricane preparedness work in New Orleans.
On nine occasions in 2004 and 2005, The New Orleans Times-Picayune
specifically cited the cost of the Iraq War as a reason for the
shortfall in hurricane- and flood-control funds. The levees that gave
way under Katrina's pressure were supposed to be upgraded with money
that ended up in Halliburton’s coffers.
Conservative policies have also led to the National Guard's misuse and
abuse, leaving the Gulf Coast without the personnel and equipment
vital to a recovery effort of this magnitude. More people will die on
the Gulf Coast as they await their would-be saviors, who are in Iraq,
victims themselves of conservative policies.
There can be no doubt that while Hurricane Katrina was not preventable,
much of the death and destruction left in its wake was. I say to
conservatives, you have blood on your hands today. I point the finger
in your face and say, You helped this happen.
Blame must go somewhere.
So you put it solely on the poor themselves? More people in this country are slipping into poverty every day - whole families of them, fathers included. That was a good thoughtful post and I thank you for writing it but hope you will take a moment to consider another side.
While throwing money at a problem is not guaranteed to fix it, one thing is for sure - throwing billions to the already obscenely rich is sure as heck not going to fix the root cause of any social disorder.
If we want to really get to the root cause of poverty in our society (which I agree is a good idea) we must not exclude the role that capitalism itself plays in not only producing a permanently disadvantaged underclass, but also in keeping it that way. A fair and impartial look at our laws and operating procedures is enough to convince anyone that things are just the way the movers and shakers want them to be. And, you are correct that only the very most motivated and exceptionally gifted will make it out of the morass. That's also the way it's supposed to be, father or no father. Social Darwinism - the cream rises.
Trouble is, we can't all be the cream. It's unreasonable to expect that of everyone. But this is the society that free market capitalism builds. It's going to get worse, too. The next step is a bonding of purpose between the corporate oligarchy and the government itself, and the next step after that is a military police state run by those who consider themselves the cream - in other words, just another banana republic, the very antithesis of what America should be.
Now I don't know about you but I don't think this is the direction America should take and I don't think for a minute it's the result of poor kids having no fathers. That may leave them more vulnerable and more easily manipulated, but it's hardly on their backs. Everyone who's not the cream is victimized in the kind of society that values money and power above everything else.
Right now there are billions upon billions of dollars being handed over not to the poor but to that handful of defense corporations powerful enough to rub elbows with Bush and his cronies. That is where America's money is going and that's where it's going to continue to go as long as we support a government that delights in making itself and its friends wealthy at the expense of everyone else in America.
You know what and who is to blame, don't you?
Deregulation schemes ala John McCain, George Bush, and the Republican Party.
Doesn't that make you and your husband the least bit interested in trying to help change this dire economic situation by changing parties?
If McCain is elected, there is no doubt in my mind that this country will see another great depression, possibly worse than the one that began in 1929.
Heaven help us all!
Yes....who's to blame....sm
The liberal democrats in congress, lining their pockets with kickbacks from all the big financial institutions, and looking the other way, forcing the banks to take the no doc loans.
Obama and Biden taking bribes, and lining their pockets, and Bill Clinton sending all his old cronies to run FM/FM, with absolutely no financial background, to run it into the ground.
Pres. Bush had actually tried to help this situation a few years back, and guess what? Harry Reid and other dems blocked his attempts.
They now completely blame George Bush. Granted, perhaps some of the blame could lay with him, because he should have been powerful enough to get something like this done.
But he made a fatal error. He tried to reach across the aisle, and put dems in charge of certain committes, and such, and all they did was stab him in the back, and make him ineffectual. So much for the dems reaching across the aisle. Their sole purpose for the past two years has been in making Bush look bad. No one can deny it.
So look to your own party. It ain't pretty.
blame
I havent blamed Obama. I agree the McC camp has stirred up the heat a bit with the socialism, marxists and terrorists comments. However, I feel that Obama is responsible for his supporters to a point and being that he is very influential over his following, he should be speaking out about peace and trying to let people know that racial bad behavior of any kind is not condoned.
There's nothing to blame him for
HE is the one that has had his life threatened. If anything, the McCain camp should be speaking out against this. I agree with Keith Olberman. McCain should have come out immediately against that volunteer of his with her bogus accusations of being attacked by a big black man. Give me a break! He has done nothing but put these fears into people that don't know any better, and I do hold him responsible for a lot of this. In my eyes, he is nothing but evil.
So you are going to blame....
this whole thing on a man who hasn't even been sworn in yet? May I borrow your crystal ball?
I believe that the blame goes
to both government and the automakers. For them to pay skilled trades a buttload of money and allow them to sit and do nothing and then retire at age 50 and live off of GM isn't right. That is GM's fault for allowing that happen. As for making big trucks and SUVs....it was what the people wanted at that time. That really wasn't a huge concern until gas prices started to skyrocket. They were making what they thought people wanted. They couldn't predict that gas would skyrocket like it did and the economy would collapse like it has.
and some of the blame goes to...
us. the American people, those who did not support industry in the US. rush out and buy those foreign cars. it may be cheaper in the short term but in the long run....no way, it will kill us all. Can't see the forest through the trees. Geez louise. Complain about losing jobs in the US and jobs from US going overseas and then buy foreign products instead of American made and what do you expect. Do you realize the far-reaching implications of the auto industry going bust???? All the suppliers affected. And all the money that would be earned by the by those millions of people who will now be earning, and thus spending, nothing. That is all money that would be supporting every other business. you can put blame anywhere you want but we all deserve some of it for destroying our own economy.
Then how can you sit and try to blame
on President Bush? You have tuned him out and ignored him since 2000, you never tried to give him a chance. Luckily, you were not in one of those towers or on one of those airplanes on 9/11. Whether you like it or not, you are still safe, so far, from those terrorists.
I will not be answering any snide, disrespectful comebacks about our president. No matter what has happened, he has earned our respect. I personally am thankful to have had a man who never had a problem over whether or not to say *so help me God.*
Can you blame her?
Who knows where those lips have been? LOL!
We cannot blame everything
on the past 8 years. Granted, the past 8 years weren't the greatest and some major mistakes were made, but there were some things that were going on during prior presidencies that lead to this. The problem was that no one stopped it once it got started and it just snowballed. Now we have Obama in the office and we are still snowballing. If you want to place blame, you need to go back further than Bush and include some others as well. Now it is Obama's turn and we need to keep our eye on him because he continues to spend spend spend!!!!! Yeah....that worked out so well in the past 8 years huh......
Well, of course you do, because it's something else to blame Bush for. nm
Bush really is to blame for everything
including natural disasters and including the fact that people built a city below sea level with water on all sides and was told that anything over a Cat 3 storm would wipe out the city. The city failed in adequately planning to evacuate the people in case of such an emergency. While I'm absolutely heartbroken to what is happening to people there, especially those who couldn't evacuate themselves the city has been told this would happen for years. Even if Bush had not cut some funds to the area adequate plans would have still not been in place. Everyone has said at one time or another that New Orleans was a disaster waiting for a Cat 4 or higher storm to happen. You can pin this on Bush like you do everything else that happens in this world, but Bush is hardly to blame for the devastation. Finger pointing does no good at this point. We all must dig deep and do what we can do for those in New Orleans. Arguing the political aspects of this disaster will not hydrate one dehydrated baby or feed one hungry person or build one adequate shelter.
My advice to everyone is to step away from your computer, go buy some non-perishable items and get it to a relief point tomorrow.
dont blame me
Once again surmising about someone on a teeny weeny board. I would never do that, LOL. I would hope you are all good people with a different ideology, that is all, and hopefully one day we could understand each other a bit..but once again, attacking, on the liberal board no less. Please dont attack the messenger, figure out why it all happened and make sure those responsible are held to task. That is what Im trying to do, get the facts of it all. If the things I am posting seem to all be attacking Bush, these are articles in the last few days papers, many papers. They are the ones questioning what the heck is happening down on the gulf and, in turn, so am I. You dont know anything about me and what I do to help others..Politicizing a tragedy? No. Looking at why it happened and what America could have done to have made it not so bad, yes. That is something our govt has to do. Who is at fault. Not for the hurricane, of course, but the levees collapsing, the aid not getting to the unfortunate ones, the money that should have been given to New Orleans but went to war instead, even though Bush was still giving out tax breaks to *his class of people*, the super rich.
Blame the victims
So...lets just blame the victims, the ones who live in New Orleans..OMG..Put the blame where it belongs, on the federal govt for cutting funds to shore up the levees..and who was in control at that time.....BUSH..he needed the money for the rich peoples tax cuts and the insane war.
You should have stopped at *I blame.* sm
Figures that someone giving a pep talk would turn you off. Might take the edge off that HATRED and RAGE. You are beginning to look more and more like the crowds who are looting, raping and shooting, out of control, full of a sense of entitlement and more than a little full of hysterical rage.
All you can do is the blame game. Then you better
nm
If they don't like the message, they blame the
xx
If you want to blame someone for your 401K,
nm
Well of course they will......you think they gonna blame
@
You can blame those that tried to live beyond their
//
This is where I blame ACORN
I think registered voters should have to prove their knowledge on the matters at hand prior to voting. Just a 5 or 10-question test to make sure they know their candidate's policies.
Do we really want our "welfare" society to determine our next President? That's what ACORN is making sure will happen.
I don't think you can blame in on either candidate (sm)
It is merely by virtue of the fact that they are different races that the the hidden racism in our country has risen up to such extremes, in both directions. It has become a battle of the races. It is almost a matter of pride at this point. And pride is the root of so many bad things.
I am no fan but I blame her handlers
for that one. Didn't anybody screen the call or verify that Sarkozy would be calling?
Why are u putting blame elsewhere.
I hate to say it, but could be because he is black or arab african.
Yep, that's right. I also blame THE CURRENT
nm
There is plenty of blame to go around...
However, Bill Clinton is not trying to rewrite history and take credit for keeping the United States safe since 9/11.
blame your state
Many people were confined against their will just because someone wanted them "out of the way." These were normal people with no mental illness - that is why it is so difficult - don't blame the liberals. Blame your state.
CONFINING THE MENTALLY ILL
In the legal space between what a society should and should not do, taking action to restrict the liberty of people who are mentally ill sits in the grayest of gray areas.
Our notions about civil and constitutional rights flow from an assumption of "normalcy." Step beyond the boundaries and arrest and prison may legally follow. Short of that, government's ability to hold people against their will is severely and properly limited. Unusual behavior on the part of someone who is mentally ill is not illegal behavior. Freedom can't be snatched away on a whim, or on the thought that a person is hard to look at, hard to hear, hard to smell.
It was only a few decades ago that the promise of new medications and a change in attitude opened the doors of the mental hospitals and sent many patients into society. There, they would somehow "normalize" and join everyone else, supported by networks of out-patient facilities, job training, special living arrangements and regular, appropriate medication. But the transition has been imperfect, long and difficult.
In some parts of urban America there is little professional support for those with mental health problems. A new generation of drug and alcohol-fueled mental illness has come on the scene. People frequently end up on the street, un-medicated and exhibiting a full range of behaviors that are discomforting at the very least and threatening at their worst.
Oh sure, blame it on the justice.
to finish is sentence for the O to repeat it. Gee whiz. Blame Bush for everything and now blame other people instead of O?
We cant blame Bush?
Yes we can, yes we can. Have you not heard that one before? I see no reason to stop now.
I did not say it was right - I said you can't blame O for a tradition -
xx
I don't believe I said that Bill was to blame
for everything. I think many many people are partly to blame for this whole mess including Bush and now I'm watching to see what Obama does and whether or not it helps us or screws us over. From where I'm sitting, I'm seeing more screwing over than help but I guess I just have to grin and bear it because this package will pass and there isn't a d@mn thing I can do about it.
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