how was the mother making the choice?
Posted By: Emily Ayn on 2008-09-04
In Reply to: to clarify - the baby's safety is the first thing I thought of that was worrisome.. - MTpocketsTYGeorge
she was giving a speech on stage... and who was using the baby for anything? we wouldn't have even known if the cameras didn't keep flashing back to them!
How can you be worried about the safety of the baby when it is family members and close friends holding it? I mean, I'm trying to see your point, but it's still stretching a bit...
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Okay, I get it....liberals believe that the mother's choice....
trumps the baby's right to life. I get it. I do not agree. And it is not a "religious" issue, that is a misstatement. There are many who are not "religious" who do not believe abortion should be legal either. I do not split hairs; I believe life begins at conception, it is ridiculous to stay anything different. If something grows, it is alive. That is science, has nothing to do with "moral issue." So why not just tell the truth? That a mother's choice, in your eyes, trumps the right of the baby to live. I do not happen to agree with that. And I cannot understand how you keep on and on and ON about "all living things" yet are okay slaughter of innocent babies by the millions every year in this country. Abortion results in a dead baby, regardless of the "soul" issue. As to moral issue...killing someone is against the law in this country. Murder is illegal. If a mother waits a day after the baby is born to kill it, she is a murder. Just because the baby is now outside the womb? Gimme a break. If you want to give a woman the right to kill her baby, so be it, that is on you. But at least call it what it is.
Scott Peterson was charged with two murders...Laci's and Conner's. If Conner was not "alive" how did Scott Peterson murder him? There are many states who charge a person who kills a pregnant woman with two murders. See how ridiculous it is to state that, then turn around and say if Laci had chosen to kill Conner, that would have been okay, because it is HER uterus.
All that being said...we all have issues that are important to us. I believe the issue of abortion is very important. I believe the right of the child to live trumps the right of the mother to dispose of it like yesterday's trash. I am entitled to that opinion, and I am entitled to try to get a law overturned that was unconstitutional on its face. I am entitled to try to get it on a ballot in individual states so that the people of this country can decide if they want to, in their own states, legalize abortion. I am entitled to choose a candidate who will work toward those goals as well. That is not the only reason I chose this candidate, but it is an important one. And I am entitled to never vote for a Democrat for the same reason, just as you have the right to never vote for a Republican for whatever reason.
And as to my "religion..." That is also why I obey the law of the land, which right now is legalized abortion. I don't picket abortion clinics and shout at women going into them. I don't shoot at doctors who perform abortions. And if, by God's grace, some states are allowed to pass abortion laws, I would hope each of you would respect the right of those states to do so, just as I have respected the law currently in place. There will always be places to go for abortions, and if Americans can go to India for surgeries, women who want to kill their babies could surely find a state to go to to have it done.
You want to champion a certain segment of society (the poor, unfortunate, suffering....). I want to do the same, only my segment is the most vulnerable, the most defenseless, the most at the mercy of others, the unborn children. Why does it grate you so much to have voices speak for them? Do I, and others like me, not have that right? Apparently not, in your eyes.
I still shake my head in disbelief that your caring for "all living things" does not extend to the babies and how you can justify their destruction on the altar of "choice," and not only that, but castigate those who would speak for them. God forbid it ever comes to the day that another has that kind of power over YOUR life, to decide if you live or die. God forbid!
Obama's mother is white, his father was black, making him an oreo.
nm
I hope that isn't how you're making your choice
I don't care who the better speaker, they both scare the you-know-what out of me. Unfortunately, I don't think all that much of McCain either. Not a stellar choice of candidates this time around.
I don't feel the need to make the choice. It's a child, not a choice. n/t
.
Huh.......must be that PT mother you so
xx
How many did your mother have?
xx
Does your mother know you are up
x
Does your mother know
su
They are all in this together, even the mother, ..sm
The mother should have told her..'I am not going to take care of your 6 children anymore, stop having babies', BEFORE she went through IVF.
This are all poor people who use this 'babymaking scheme'
to abuse teh welfare system.
Origin of Mother's Day.
Published on Friday, August 26, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
Mother's Day in Crawford
by Medea Benjamin and Gayle Brandeis
When Cindy Sheehan marched into Crawford, Texas to ask President Bush why her son died in Iraq, it was Mother's Day. Not the Hallmark-infused, soft focus, breakfast-in-bed Mother's Day that shows up on the calendar in May. This was the day that Julia Ward Howe envisioned when she created Mother's Day in 1870 as a time for all the mothers who lost their sons in the Civil War to protest the senseless violence.
Howe's Mother's Day Proclamation begins:
Arise then... women of this day!
Arise, all women who have hearts!
Cindy Sheehan has risen up against the senseless violence of this war in Iraq, and countless women and men have risen up with her. The numbers at Camp Casey continue to swell, and support pours in from all corners of the globe. While George Bush says he feels Sheehan's pain but must get on with his life, Sheehan's supporters are uprooting themselves from their lives-often at great personal sacrifice-- to vigil beside her in the hot Texas sun. Tired of seeing our soldiers and countless Iraqis die in an unjustified war, millions of Americans-especially mothers--are joining Sheehan's revolution of the heart. And in the process, they're exposing Bush's own heartlessness for refusing to meet with a grieving mother, and more tragically, for needlessly putting our sons and daughters in harm's way.
Those in the smear-Cindy camp have told Sheehan, in no uncertain terms, that she should go back home, where she belongs. But Sheehan has followed Julia Ward Howe's imperative:
As men have often forsaken
the plough and the anvil
At the summons of war,
Let women now leave all that may be left of home
For a great an earnest day of counsel.
Sheehan's hoped-for day of counsel with Bush may never arrive. But another sort of counsel is taking place, the sort that Howe imagined:
Let them meet first, as women, to bewail and commemorate the dead.
Let them solemnly take counsel with each other as to the means
Whereby the great human family can live in peace.
This is precisely what is happening at the vigil in Crawford, Texas. Women are running the camp itself, organizing Sheehan's schedule, holding women's circles to share their grief and hope, writing letters appealing to Laura Bush, and strategizing ways to broaden and deepen this movement for peace.
During the Vietnam era, the anti-war movement was fueled primarily by students. Today, the anti-war movement is being fueled largely by mothers. Look at some of the organizations that have been created in the last few years: CODEPINK: Women for Peace, Gold Star Families for Peace, Military Families Speak Out, Raging Grannies. All of them reflect a mother's intense desire to not only shield her children from harm but to stop her children from doing harm to others.
Again, we hear the voice of Julia Howe.
We, the women of one country,
Will be too tender of those of another country
To allow our sons to be trained to injure theirs.
In a recent statement urging Americans to listen to Cindy Sheehan, Elizabeth Edwards said, If we are decent and compassionate, if we know the lessons we taught our children, or if, selfishly, all we want is the long line of the brave to protect us in the future, we should listen to the mothers now. Thanks to Cindy Sheehan, the mothers have arisen. Thanks to Cindy Sheehan, the world can't help but listen. Hopefully, George Bush is also hearing the message.
Medea Benjamin and Gayle Brandeis are members of CODEPINK: Women for Peace, a group that has been actively involved in the vigil in Crawford, Texas. Medea Benjamin is co-founder of CODEPINK, founder of Global Exchange, and nominee for the 2005 Nobel Peace Prize. Gayle Brandeis is the author of The Book of Dead Birds, which won Barbara Kingsolver's Bellwether Prize for Fiction in Support of a Literature of Social Change.
I bet you have. Your mother must be so proud. nm
nm
As the mother of an interracial son
I can tell you that I see my son as biracial but the world sees my son as black. No matter how much I stress to him how special he is to be of both races when we fill out school papers, doc office papers, etc. we are forced to choose between black or white. This is a visual world we live in and if Obama was running around calling himself a white man then people would have a problem with thst too.
I am a mother...So flame me if you want..however. sm.
Our son is 11 and can debate the pros and cons of both Obama and McCain, Biden and Palin with the best of them. We have taught him that conservativism is the way we think, but everybody is entitled to their own opinion. We are a minority - being conservative in a rapidly turning libral world. And my husband is one of those people railed about...an "angry, white male who clings to his guns and religion."
Our country is going down the tubes, politicians and bankers are raping our country and getting away with it, we owe our souls to the company store aka China et al, and who pays for it??? We do..our children, grand-children, and gg-children.
To those who think that Obama walks on water...google Ayers, Rzko, Wright, Soros, and You-Tube. Listen to any conservative talk show..if you can find any, and listen. With all the overwhelming evidence about Obama and his "friends" etc, we are on a long, slippery slope to destruction of the greatest country there ever was. The founding fathers are spinning in their graves with what our country has become.
Ok, off my soapbox.
does your mother know you are on this board?
how old are you?
and my mother recently said to me (sm)
It doesn't matter who wins...when it is time it is going to happen, regardless of what we do. If he is meant to be in office he will be. God's plan will come to pass no matter what.
Recollections of my mother
Her mother got $.25 a week for groceries to feed 8 kids. Many a night they had ketchup bread or if they had it, sugar bread (toast with butter and sugar), potato or pea soup. Meat was a luxury and they might have had chicken once a month.
They worse shoes with cardboard in them when the soles wore out. Everybody wore the next-in-line older siblings child's clothes when they outgrew them unless they were . My aunt stated by the time the clothes got to her, they were patched so many times the thread hurt her skin.
Their idea of play was to go to the coal yards and pick the best coal they could and get it home without getting caught by the Iron Police.
They didn't have a car. They didn't have a radio. They would hear news by going to the store and listening to their radio.
All the kids had to quit school when they were 16 so they could get a job and help out at home. At that time, the only jobs for boys were in the coal holes as breaker boys and slate pickers and the females cleaned houses or worked in the garmet factories. They would hand over their paychecks when they got paid (which was not on a regular schedule, either). My mom worked for $.10/hour cleaning homes 5 days a week. My aunt made $.08/hour 6 days a week in the garment factory. Out of the pay, they would receive $.50 to do with what they wanted and it had to last until the next payday.
His MOTHER was a U.S. citizen
Good Lord, this gets more ridiculous every day.
No, her mother did not.......posters like YOU did!
xx
As a mother of 2 teenagers . . .
I have had many discussions with them regarding the responsibility that comes with trying any substance, and I told them that if they were going to experiment with something, I would much prefer they smoke pot than drink alcohol, as in my state the rate of alcohol-related teenage deaths is alarming. Of course, I told them that, unfortunately, pot is illegal and so using it would constitute breaking the law. But we as parents know that our kids are going to be exposed to all manner of things and I would rather they be intelligently informed of all consequences.
My mother always told me
Ignore them and they'll go away.
I don't think there's a limit to what a good mother will do,
be it grizzly or human, when her child is taken from her, and no valid, truthful explanation is given as to why.
Look at the lengths Beth Twitty is going to in Aruba. She wants answers, as well.
Somehow, though, it seems worse when you entrust your child to your government and then, once the shock and disbelief has passed and most of the other grieving stages have passed, you wake up one morning and realize the man you believed and believed IN, the president of the United States, deceived and lied to you and continues to lie to other mothers all over the country. My heart goes out to this brave woman and all those other mothers who also have lost their children. If Bush had 1/1,000th of her courage, this country might be in a much safer place today.
I was an unwed mother with a republican mom.
I got accused of being promiscuous and my mother raled on and on about how much I had embarassed her and the family before I could get a word out of my mouth about being virgin when I was date raped and ended pregnant. Abortion was illegal then and BC had not shown up either. That issue was surronded with all kinds of shame and blame. I was wisked away to an unwed mother's home the day after I graduated from high school (age 17, 4 months along) in the middle of the night where I hid out for the remainder of the term (which was more like a prison term than a pregnancy term).
The Catholic religious establishment who ran the home never missed an opportnity to let me know what a slut I was and how I did not deserve to be a mother. That was the extent of the social support system in those days. I was then forced to sign my first-born son over to "fit parents," just 5 weeks shy of the legal age of 18. The paper said that I had "no parental rights" and that I would never be allowed to find my own son.
This was the reward I got for being a straight-A student and staying virgin until date rape happened. I was, shall we say, fairly outraged by the time I got to college and proceeded to live up to my mother's worst expectations of me. I became promiscuous for about 2 years or so, took drugs and drank my way through my freshman and sophomore year, but high, drunk or sober, I was ALWAYS front and center in the Women's rights rallies, supporting pre-Roe-Wade initiatives.
I stayed like that until my second son was born at age 26, a year into my marriage. I kicked my habits, straightened up and raised him, but to this day, whenever I entertain the idea of looking for my first son and my second son's big brother, those words, "No rights" and those "slut" attitudes echo in the back road of my memory, and I just remind myself how I have to learn to live with it (as if).
With that being said, my mother would have NEVER, NEVER, NEVER put me in the position SP has now thrust her daughter into. She has only ignited the fires of outrage smoldering inside of me for the past 42 years. We would not be having this conversation if SP had looked before she leaped. For me, there is nothing she can do to convince me that she is deserving of this office. If she had the guts some of the other posts say she has, she would refuse this nomination. So trying to stand back and be respectful of her family privacy...not as easy as it sounds, but for the sake of her daughter, and my own, I will be giving my best shot.
The unwed mother above whose life
nm
(And so is my 82-year-old mother, who has voted
His own mother signed him up as Muslim
This was at a public school in Indonesia, where other faiths are taught as well. The records are there in his mother's handwriting. She signed him up not to have Christian lessions but Islamic.
I hear ya on that. My husband's mother
moved a trailer onto our property to get away from property taxes. We decided to rent her trailer. Bad mistake. A minister from our area called us and said this family just moved to the area but really had no place to go and nothing but a few suitcases. Would we rent our trailer to them? Mind you, 2 adults and 4 toddlers trying to squeeze into a 2 bedroom trailer.
We were hesitant, but cut the rent since the pastor vouched for them. I even went to all my friends and wrestled money, food, or cleaning items from them so this family could get a good start.
Three months later, the trailer looked like a dump. The hardwood floors were all full of dirty diapers, feces, etc....and the people did not even own an animal! The toilet backed up (kid stuffed a stuffed animal down it and they never told us). We tried to get them out the lawful way but it didn't work (winter coming, can't evict during the months of September through April).
Finally, had it and my husband put a note on the trailer with a butcher knife and told them if they didn't get going, he would bring a backhoe in and push the trailer over. They were gone the next day and it took us 3 months and 6 tri-axle dump trucks worth of garbage to get the place cleaned up.
Needless to say, after that, I called the pastor and told him what had happened and he was heartsick. He said he found out that the husband, through this pastor's kindness, had job offers like crazy to help this man, and he refused every job that came along! The pastor apologized to us but it really wasn't his fault. It was this man and wife who snookered everybody in the area. They left the area owing thousands of dollars through the generosity of others (I'll pay you back when I get a job.)
We sold the property a few months later to our best friends who also wanted to buy a property but couldn't pass the credit lines at that time. They could afford to pay our mortage, so we made an agreement with the bank and every month, they paid the mortage payment on our property and the property taxes on their property. They're still living on that property and they have no mortgage. It's free and clear. They even built up enough credit with our bank that they could build a house on it and get rid of the gosh-awful trailer.
His mother remarried an Indonesian man
nm
Obama's mother was an atheist......sm
She did not believe in God or Jesus or anything taught in the Bible.
Christianity does not work the same way Catholicism does. If I understand the Catholic faith correctly, if your parents are Catholic, then you are automatically Catholic and are christened as a Catholic in infancy. However, with Christianity, a person does not become a Christian until they accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Saviour. Once profession of faith in Christ is made, baptism follows as a sign of obedience but in and of itself imparts no salvation.
His mother was a professed atheist.
x
This I did not know, I thought O's mother was a christian...
In the catholic faith the baptism is very important. Only after the baptism one is a catholic or christian, I believe.
Nightmares Of My Mother... (long)sm
My mother has told me many stories about life during the Great Depression. Of course, she was only a child, but the stress of her parents was extremely palpable as they scrimped and saved to provide for their family.
Grocery stores of those days were nothing like what we have today. You didn't just go to a store to buy a bill of groceries IF you had the money. My grandmother would buy coffee, baking powder, flour, sugar and salt and maybe a bottle of vanilla every once in a while. As the depression dragged on and the US became involved in WWII, ration books were issued for most of those things. Gardens were grown to provide vegetables and my grandmother would work late into the night to can the vegetables that my grandfather grew. And it wasn't just dropping them in a bag and vacuum sealing them. It mean preparing the vegetables, "blanching" them, sterilizing the jars and lids and then processing the jars in a huge "canner" after filling them. She also had a canning machine that used metal cans and with that she could put up even meats. I have heard my mother speak of her mother canning vegetables for some of the rich town folks who paid her a little bit of money for doing so. Granny kept chickens for both eggs and meat and a couple of cows for milk from which she made butter, buttermilk, and cheese. She belonged to the Home Demonstration Club where she learned to make ketchup with tomatoes from the garden and mayonaisse from the eggs her hens provided. She even learned a new recipe for cornbread which involved using a tablespoon or so of sugar, which she had never used in cornbread before. My Granddaddy came in from a long day in the field, took one bite of it at supper, and said "If I want cornbread, I want cornbread; if I want cake, I want cake." LOL
Occasionally, someone in the community would kill a beef or hog and come around selling meat from the back of his wagon or truck. You could buy a "chunck of meat", not necessarily T-bone steaks or bacon or some other certain cut, just a chunk of meat. You could only buy what your family would eat within a few days as there was no refrigeration except for the "ice box" and the well bucket.
My mother also grew up picking cotton from the time she was old enough to drag the sack behind her. It was hard and brutal work as the cotton hulls would cut your fingers to ribbons if you were not careful. This was done in the late summer in Texas and the sun beat down unmercifully on them as they picked cotton for a nickle or dime a sack.
Shoes were hard to come by and from spring until the first frosts of winter, most kids went barefoot everywhere. I have pictures from my mother's childhood showing barefoot schoolchildren. If you were lucky enough to have a pair of shoes that fit, you had to "save them back" for church or going to town. Mother has told me that, as a child, they would place their shoes on a thick piece of cardboard and trace around the outline, cut it out and place it inside their shoes because there were holes in the soles.
There was no electricity in the rural area where my mother grew up, so no lights, no electrical appliances, no fans. Cooking was done on a wood stove or coal oil or kerosene stove, summer and winter alike. Often during the summer, the house would be too hot to sleep in and they would make pallets with quilts in the back of Granddaddy's old truck and sleep there in the hopes of catching a summer night's breeze.
But even with the hard times, life had it's good times back then as well. Families visited, neighbors helped neighbors, values were taught and people genuinely cared about each other. Most of the rural folks like my grandparents were too poor to know it when Wall Street fell until the tentacles of excruciating poverty wove itself throughout the land. Still, America stood together and faced the depression headon with patriotism and pride in their country and love for their fellow man.
Sorry I prattled on, but once I got started, the memories just came flooding back.
My mother still has one of those ration books........ sm
but I believe it was from WWII rather than the earlier Great Depression. I can remember her telling me that things like leather, rubber, automobiles, and nylon were rationed also during WWII as the bulk of those things went for "The War Effort."
I know it does - his mother was underage citizen
Hence his citizenship then went to his father's nationality. He was still born in Kenya. Doesn't change anything.
what, didnt your mother believe in abortion?
I for one will be sending red envelopes to O!
True - but they are not disussing her mother
I come to read politics on this board, not gossip about children.
You sound like a wonderful mother and...
...person. They're lucky to have you. 
OMG...an unwed teenage mother.
Ya know....since democrats generally leans towards minority voters....you would think they would be used to seeing unwed teenage mothers. Surely Bristol Palin isn't the only unwed teenager mother in the US and yet some of you people seem to focus on her like she is the only one.
I hope to God that Barry and Chelle's daughters never have premarital sex. Although Barry and Chelle would probably just have them get an abortion so they wouldn't be "punished" by a baby. However, just like everything else, I'm sure some of you will not even post something like that and the media would totally ignore it.
But since this is Bristol Palin we are talking about....of course it is a big deal and important to our country. Whatever......
Wow, clever and classy. Your mother
Do you have an opinion on the actual topic of the thread or do you just specialize in pithy one-liners?
Cindy's going home...Her mother just had a stroke.
She doesn't know if she will be back. I hope her mother has a speedy recovery.
They guestimate that there were tens of thousands of protesters there with her with over 1600 vigiles this week.
Apparently you knew Casey better than his mother. Do you?
And apparently you know Cindy very well also to make such a personal psychiatric diagnosis. Provide your proof, you right-wing liar.
No one is trashing Tillman's mother, Libby.
What an incredibly bizarre thing to say. I guess that fits your bizarro alternate universe angry liberal planet view of the world. How could anyone expect any more from you than that. Not surprised.
You don't approve of a part-time mother??
Where have you been? With all the mothers working these days, where do you think their children stay? At DAYCARES, the other PT mother. Some would love to stay home and be mom FT but can't. That doesn't make them a bad mother. My mother had to work when I was growing up or we didn't eat.
As far as her teenage daughter, she is to be married. Do you know how many teenage girls decades ago were married right out of high school and pregnant? There might have been more mothers at home to assist them but is it really Palin's responsibility to put her life on hold because her teenage daughter got pregnant? Pleeezzz!! If anything, she is showing her daughter that this doesn't have to be the low point in her life. It can be a joyous time and the girl can look at her mother as an inspiration of what you can do.
My mother, a life-long republican, used to be...sm
a church secretary in a small town and told me that the people who actually tithed according to their income were the poorest in town. Very few of the rich or well off did. I think it is a percentage you are supposed to give if you are a member of the church. It really used to upset her. You can imagine what a church secretary earned in the 1950s, yet after feeding us kids and paying the rent as a single parent, she always managed to support God's work in the church and volunteer her time if she couldn't give money. She actually turned me into a democrat because I felt that all the things she taught me were most like what the democrats stand for.
Mmmm, no I think the mother of all flip-flops...sm
Goes to McCain for "Experience, experience, experience, I have the experience!" McCain: What, that's not working? Okay, I mean "Change, change, change!" ("Do you think anyone will notice that I just adopted what my opponent's platform because mine wasn't working, and that I've gone from being a so-called 'Maverick' to a populist in a matter of weeks?")
Everyone and their mother withdraws their cash from the bank.
dd
God save us from well-meaning people as my mother
.
His mother was a natural-born US citizen...sm
and lived in the US all her life before she gave birth at 18. Your statement only applied. to children born to naturalized citizens who are living outside the US, the purpose being someone who comes to this country and becomes naturalized, then after a few years moves to another country, cannot expect their children that are born in that other country be considered natural-born citizens with the right to run for president. I will double check with my brother tonight, but I am pretty sure that is how he explained it.
Also try Mother Jones - they delve into both sides sm
of politics and don't hesitate to skewer whoever needs it.
Her mother made her political fodder.
You can not tell people what they can and can not discuss here.
You really are infatuated with Mother Mary Bridger, huh? (sm)
I think Mother Mary Bridger needs body guards to keep the stalkers away.
Mother Bridger? That would be demotion from Dutchess, yes?
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