agree, but to be fair if 1 person is forced, then everyone (adults too) should be
Posted By: nm on 2008-11-12
In Reply to: nm - no one should be FORCED
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if kids are forced to do it, then adults should be too
x
excuse me....show me the person who forced Ohhbaaamaaa....
to ANSWER it the way he did??? Keep trying to hide the elephant in the room.
I agree - not fair
If you don't like Bush that is one thing. To say he is evil is way out of line. Just like the people who said Clinton was evil.
Just say I'm looking forward to a different regime and that would be fine.
There is no need to be snotty, we are all adults sm
This is not redistribution. It is simply a more fair tax structure. Actually so far, I've been helping the rich by paying more taxes proportionately than they do. Yes, my dear, in a civilized society, we all pay taxes. For someone who is poor to pay more than they can afford is not fair. I will from now on ignore your posts as you are as thick as one.
Kids are meaner than adults
Talk about a jungle where only the strong survive - makes this board look like a tea party with the queen of England.
Fair enough....notice especially the word FAIR. nm
nm
Report: 1 in 31 U.S. adults in prison system
Updated: 8:07 p.m. ET Nov. 2, 2005
WASHINGTON - Nearly 7 million adults were in U.S. prisons or on probation or parole at the end of last year, 30 percent more than in 1995, the Justice Department said Wednesday.
That was about one in every 31 adults under correctional supervision at the end of 2004, compared with about 1 in 36 adults in 1995 and about 1 adult in every 88 in 1980, said Allan J. Beck, who oversaw the preparation of the department’s annual report on probation and parole populations.
Beck attributed the overall rise in the number of people under correctional supervision to sentencing reforms of the 1990s. The nation’s incarcerated population has been increasing for more than 30 years, with sharp growth in the last decade.He said crime rates have fallen in recent years, which helps account for slower growth among people on probation — those allowed to live in the community with some restrictions rather than being incarcerated.
The number of people on probation in 2004 grew by 6,343 to about 4.2 million in 2004, the report said.
Nearly 50 percent of all probationers at the end of last year were convicted of a felony. Twenty-six percent were on probation for a drug-law violation, and 15 percent for driving while intoxicated, said the annual Justice Department report.
Racial imbalance persists in probation
Whites made up 56 percent of the probation population and only 34 percent of the prison population, according to Wednesday’s report and another Justice Department report released last month.
“White people — for whatever reason — seem to have more access to community supervision than African Americans and Hispanics,” said Jason Ziedenberg, executive director of the Justice Policy Institute, which promotes alternatives to incarceration. He called probation a cheaper and more effective form of rehabilitation.
Blacks, he noted, comprised 30 percent of probationers and 41 percent of prisoners at the end of 2004. Hispanics made up 12 percent of the probation population and 19 percent of the prison population
Parolees grew fastest among those under correctional supervision. They are criminal offenders who rejoin society with restrictions for a time after they complete a prison term.
Number of parolees grows
The adult parole population grew 20,230, or 2.7 percent, during the year, more than twice the average annual increase of 1.3 percent since 1995, the report said. The total number of parolees at the end of 2004 was 765,355.
Beck said a late 1990s spike in prison populations is now showing up in the number of parolees, as the number of prisoners released rises.
The parole population grew during 2004 in 39 states, with double-digit growth in 10 states, led by Nebraska’s 24 percent increase. The number of people on parole decreased in nine states and didn’t change in Maine.
About 187,000, or 39 percent of discharged parolees went back to prison or jail in 2005. While the number has grown, the rate has held relatively stable since 1995, when 160,000, or 39 percent of discharged parolees returned to incarceration.
The total number of people incarcerated in the United States grew 1.9 percent in 2004 to 2,267,787 people, according to the report released last month.
© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
How about knocking some of those able-bodied adults on welfare...
off and using that to fund health care for children? Should go a long way. Make the hard decisions. Which is more important? But then you have the issue of that woman who has 3 or 4 kids and feeding them on welfare, you kick her off welfare to insure her kids, who is going to feed them? See a pattern here? We need to look at ALL assistance programs and trim the fat. The federal government (more specifically yours and my tax dollars) was never intended to support people who can work but won't. Social programs have gone way, way, WAY out of proportion. And the people who get the benefit of the programs pay nothing into them...zip, zilch, nada. How is that fair to the rest of us, pray tell? If they raise our taxes much more, the whole country will have to be on welfare and assistance just to pay for our insurance and everyone else's. There has to be an end to this somewhere...am I the only one who sees this vicious circle?
Oops. A voyeur peeking in on two adults.
Because leftist extremists are not emotionally or mentally adults
They cannot hold their own in debate, so they throw fits and insults. They throw they pre-programmed leftist talking points that have nothing of substance behind them. They cannot have an adult conversation simply because they are not adults psychologically.
fair and balanced . . . fair and
balanced . . . we're looking out for YOU . . . we're looking out for the FOLKs . . . fair and balanced . . .
whats fair is fair
Truth is, what is good for one is good for the other. If Palin puts herself out there, she is a target. But then so is Obama. The problem is that when you say anything about O people go crazy. When someone says something about Palin, its just true.
yes, the first person did....the person replying to that post...
was talking about the founding fathers...who came along a long time after the witch trials. You replied to the second post, not the first one. I was replying to you based on that. Purtianism came first...Christianity was the religion practiced by the founding fathers. It is evident in their writings and in most of our original documents.
I think we can stop whipping this dead horse now.
Right, but who should be forced to help her? The
nm
Why must you be FORCED to do
something that you acknowledge a desire for, and is the right thing to do? This only gives credence to the theory that govenment has to solve our problems for us.
I was raised by smokers (one of which died of lung cancer). As a child, every family gathering was a nightmare because all the aunts and uncles were smokers as well. I've never smoked, hate smoke, and am pretty happy that it's now banned in businesses in my state. If it it were not a health issue, it's still an annoyance and I never understood why for most of my adult life I was required to put up with it in a restaurant or an office. At outdoor events it's still legal. This is a courtesy issue; just because you legally may smoke does not mean it isn't rude to do so when surrounded by people in a stadium.
But that's about as far as I am willing to go. I don't care if someone wishes to smoke in their own personal space. Somebody who has been smoking smells nasty to me (on a par with b.o., intestinal gas, or overwhelming perfume) . Some hypersensitive people actually are sickened by these odors on others, but if I get an occasional whiff of it, this is merely offensive and will do me no particular harm. Some folks are quite unaware of (or do not care) how they smell. It's another courtesy issue.
To argue that there are larger societal impacts to many of our personal behaviors such as smoking, overweight, transfat and sugar consumption, and alcohol use has validity in terms of health care costs. But to the extent that these behaviors directly harm only ourselves, I still think that we should be permitted to reach these conclusions on their own, and take measures to correct them without the intervention of a nanny government.
Millions of people quit smoking or drinking, change their diet or lose weight of their own volition and I think that a sense of accomplishment should accompany these successes, not the sense that somebody just nagged or taxed you into it.
Being forced to own up. Not impressive.
nm
we are not being forced into socialism -
Obama is not a socialist.
I might would agree that we woudl be socialized if Hillary had won, but I do not consider Obama a socialist.
Not forced. Not compulsory.
"Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free."
Money for college in exchange for voluntry community service. What's so "disgusting" about that?
Yes, they SHOULD be forced to filibuster.
I was shocked to learn that these Republicans DON'T have to stand there and read the telephone book, etc.
And the Democrats are in "control" of Congress? 
Okie-dokie.
GM may be forced into bankruptcy......... sm
Looks like it might happen anyway. Remember the heated debates over this on this very forum a while back?
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE52428I20090305?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
Exactly - just as your viewpoint is being forced
It works both ways, ya know.
Perhaps she would not have been forced into making it public...
had not the left gone to the blogs trying to claim that Trig was Bristol's and they were passing him off as her brother. To let that stand would do more damage to her daughter, don't you think?
Forced into that positin by your favorite...
political party, the DEMOCRATS. McCain told them this was coming in 2005. Sponsored legislation to look closer at Fannie/Freddie. The Democrats (big money buddies with Freddie/Fannie) blocked it. And here we are...Freddie/Fannie started the freefall. And let's not forget Barney Frank...another Democrat...pushing Fannie/Freddie to make those subprime loans to minorities and low income folks who did not have a hope in heck of paying it back. Most with no credit or bad credit. And THOSE are the people we are bailing out. Wonder how many of THEM are Democrats??
Yes, it is form of socialism, but at least we do not have SOCIALISTS in charge of it. If we elect Obama, we WILL have a hard core socialist in control.
Be careful what you ask for.
If the religious freaks forced me to have it, -
I'd stomp on it the moment it popped out.
Dems forced to stoop way low while speaking
su
"You're not forced to read this" is what I was
nm
Gay cirriculum forced on elementary schools
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,521209,00.html
Talk about your double standards here. You can't pray in school, pass out Bibles in school, or talk about God at all but hey....talk to them about being gay. Once again, if you want me to keep my beliefs out of public school, stop forcing homosexuality upon my kids. They are wanting to teach this to kids as young as 5 years old.
Why can't they just talk to the kids about not being mean and making fun of others without bringing the whole subject of homosexuality into it?
It should be the parent's job to talk to their kids about homosexuality....not public schools.
Forced bible reading in public school
The Bible is without question the most recognizable and known literary works in the history of literature. It has been read time and time again by people of all races, nationalities and religions all over the world for hundreds and hundreds of years. It is the most prominent, dominating pieces of writing in cultures around the globe.
Yet apparently, it is exempt from that pesky little law of the separation of Church and State in the United States of America.
In Boca Raton, Florida, at West Boca Raton High School, the book of Genesis is on the required reading list for all incoming 11th graders to the school. It is not suggested or recommended, but is mandatory.
The school claims that no laws have been broken, as state law permits studies of the Bible as long as it is studied for its literature purposes, rather than as history. And this is the loophole which is allowing the school to force its students to read from the Bible, as it is seen as preparation for literary reading in the school year to come.
Wait a second … Students are being forced to read the Bible, because the school thinks it is pertinent to their reading in their particular grade level? And no one sees the problem with this?
Separation of Church and State was established to prevent religious beliefs and practices from interfering with activities within the government. And last time I checked, public schools fall under the category that is protected from religious teachings. While the Bible may have many great stories, and the style of writing and language may be absolutely fascination, why must students be required to read it? It is clearly the most blatant symbol and teaching tool for religion, despite its values as literary work.
Students should be recommended to read the Bible if the school feels so strongly in its “practical” use as literature teachings. Or have the teachers explain the important stories and style of writing, suggesting that the students follow along if they wish. But to down right require students to read it is a slap in the face to everyone who has valued the importance of keeping religion out of the government.
Would the school ever consider requiring the reading of the Koran? Or what about the book of Mormon? Of course these literary works would never be considered, mainly because of the overwhelming influence Christianity has on today’s society.
What could students possibly get from reading the book of Genesis that they couldn’t get from any other great work of literature? I managed to breeze through my 11th grade English class without ever having to pick up a bible, and I seem to be doing okay as far as literature knowledge goes right now.
Also, what will happen to the students who refuse to partake in the required reading? They school already stated that their will be quizzes and tests on the material (the book of Genesis), so does that mean if a student feels it is wrong to be forced to read the bible and doesn’t do it, he is out of luck come test time? If so, wouldn’t you think that those students wouldn’t care less of their grade by that point? If that was the case, then the school’s ploy to teach students the writing of the Bible would be a lost cause.
Requiring students to read books to better understand the English language and literature as a whole is a normal part of school. Teachers are supposed to assign work … that is their job. But to force religious teachings and preaching onto students isn’t the work of teachers or a school board … it is the work of pastors/ministers/priests.
And until West Boca Raton High School becomes a private school, requiring teachers to take the place of spiritual leaders is a crime.
We at the Noyse are furious and disappointed that this is taking place. While we value and respect the religious beliefs of everyone, we do not feel it appropriate to force religion or religious teachings upon anyone.
So we are taking action. We are doing this for all the unheard voices of the upcoming 11th grade class, who will read the book of Genesis because they have to and are unable to say no … or unable to be heard when they do say no. We are doing this for all the students who are bound to fail their tests because they refused to read the Bible as instructed. We are doing this for everyone who believes in the first amendment: The freedom of speech, the freedom of press and the freedom of religion. We are doing this for everyone who is frustrated with the State misinterpreting and reshaping the beliefs of the Separations of Church and State. And we are doing this for everyone who thinks this is down right wrong.
We are prepared to go to war over this issue. We are not afraid to make noyse, and are anticipating being heard only after we hear a lot in return. We are going to fight, and will not back down, slow down or shut up until this issue is brought into question by those with the authority to remedy the problem.
First off, we have started a petition, that we encourage everyone to sign if they wish to help us in this battle. You can view the petition here. Please, sign it and pass it along to everyone you know. The more voices who speak up, the louder we will be.
Also, we will be sending a letter to West Boca Raton High School, as well as the school district, stating our grievances, intentions and expectations. We will give them an opportunity to respond to our mission if they so choose to do so. We will inform them that while we may be a small army, we are not easy-influenced or easily intimidated, and will not go away quietly.
We will also be sending out press releases to all local media outlets (news stations, newspapers, etc.) in the Boca Raton area, exclaiming our business and informing them that a battle will be waged and to prepare for us to make some noyse. Also, everyone and anyone reading The Noyse who wishes to stand on the battle lines with us will be encouraged to contact their local media outlets as well and inform of them our mission.
Students heading into the 11th grade will be notified of our intentions and informed that they can either submit to the requirements, or stand up and make noyse along with us.
And finally, the government of Florida will be notified of the problem we see in this situation, and asked to reevaluate it as a whole. We will not beg, not plead, but insist that action be taken to prevent the students at West Boca Raton High School to be required to read the bible.
Obama and Ayers forced radicalism in schools...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122212856075765367.html
Wow, this is explosive stuff!
Also, James Johnson, who headed Obama's VP vetting committee...one of the Fannie CEOs who walked away with a several million golden parachute. Obama is on the Fannie list of donation recipients...#2 on that list, topped only by Chris Dodd. Wow...that is explosive stuff. Another advisor...Franklin Raines...another fired corrupt CEO from Fannie...walked away with a golden parachute in the multimillions...wow...explosive stuff.
Rahm Emanuel wants forced civil service
Listen to the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfV8iXiB9Xg
DH said its disgusting that he's laughing about it.
also, courts ruled the draft was not forced servitude in Butler v. Perry. nm
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Whoops....A person....not I person.
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being fair?
What is fair when someone talks about aborting a whole race? What has Maher to do with it? I know for a fact if I had said something like Bennett said, I would not have my job or some friends and my family certainly would not be proud of me. OMG, the thought of killing off a whole race to me is pretty serious and I equate it to Hitler wanting to kill off certain types of people. To even try to defend Bennetts words makes me shake my head..Why would anyone want to defend his vile nasty comments? The guy has proven he is a jerk.
That's not fair...sm
I remember at least twice the topic of the Israel/Lebanon coming up, but I'll give you that it has not been discussed a lot.
See my post about WWIII. I also remember posting that I wanted to wait to see how our government reacts.
Fair enough.
Thank you for responding in a respectful manner.
For the record, I felt Kfir's remarks to me were offensive first, and that's why my remarks became nastier. In fact, the remark about Kfir not being representative of most Israelis was in direct response and in the same tone to Kfir's post to me regarding being representative of liberals.
And I don't believe my take on the end times is a fact. It's nothing more than my personal opinion, based on things I read that lead me to feel that way and raise the questions I raised.
I do agree that these issues are very emotionally charged and respect your decision to not discuss them further. Again, thank you for being respectful.
Fair enough, but we need a more immediate
I would be 100% fine with my taxes being raised 3% if it meant healthcare for all American children. Heck, I would be overjoyed with that! So if that bill ever comes up I guarantee you I will support it, but the fact is the current bill is a solution that could help families right now, and I support it. I would support just about any bill that would help lower health insurance costs to American families, honestly. I just truly think this one is great because it is aimed at covering minors. I also think it is great that Republican and Democratic leaders tried to work together and compromise on it and decided to tax cigarettes instead of raising taxes in other areas.
So yes, I would rather have a hike in taxes and have more affordable healthcare for kids. Is that the best solution for lower health care costs for adult Americans? Maybe not, but for the minors with no choice in what kind of family they are born into I think it is a great choice.
DW...that is not fair...
I SAID Democrats then...and I also said the Democratic Congress, because in that, just as in the Iraq War vote, the Congress is responsible, not the rank and file. The rank and file did not have an opportunity to vote on it. I NEVER said that Democratic Party TODAY was responsible for it (they are only responsible for the denial of it, and again, I mean the DNC, the policy makers, not the rank and file), I certainly NEVER said YOU personally were responsible. Why is it, help me understand, that if someone points out something truthful though not pleasant, that the "party" has done, you take it personally like I am saying it is you personally? This was a post entirely about the "party."
I guess the most startling thing about this whole thing is that if anything is said about the "party" it is taken personally. If I were in the party I would certainly be concerned that the "party" was in a state of denial about it, were actually lying about it on their website (because it is politically inexpedient for everyone to remember the past), I think THAT would offend me just as much. But...that is just me.
Suffice it to say, DW...if you choose to take a post about the Democratic Party, the voting, policy-making COngressional Democratic party at that time, personally, there is nothing I can do about that. It was not meant to be taken personally. However, I repeat...if you are going to be angry, be angry at those who did it and those who continue to lie and deny. Don't blame someone who posted the truth. And please, don't put words in my mouth. I never called Democrats baby killers. I have never called anyone a baby killer. And I certainly have not called anyone here a racist. There are certainly racists in this world, but nothing anyone has said here would make me think they are racist.
All that being said...all politics aside, all party stuff, all that crap...from one American to another...I hope you have a happy, blessed Thanksgiving Day and I hope you have plenty of family and friends around you to enjoy it with you.
Good evening!
Fair enough
point well taken. Sorry I offended you, I just get a little upset when people try and link (not that YOU were trying to link, but other posters have) trying to link any candidate running for president to a known criminal and horrible horrible person. I've heard people link Bush and Saddam together and I've been on the defensive about that.
Sorry again I offended you, I just don't like hearing the two being linked to each other.
Let's be fair now
If you repeat a slogan like "Change we can believe in" enough times you will believe him and his socialist beliefs.
If you think that is fair, well okay. I think it is
nm
The only one fit for the job of being fair
was Tim Russert. SOOO missing him now. Rest in peace Tim, although I know you are briefing everyone in Heaven lol.
I don't think that is entirely fair....
I think President Bush did a wonderful job after 9-11. I think he was the President we needed then. I still credit him with holding this country together. I think he has it right on terrorism. I have a lot of problems with things he has done and things he has not done...but on 9-11 and terrorism, I think he was the right man.
why does that seem fair to you?
What reason other than jealousy could make it seem fair to impose a higher tax on someone earning more money? So they worked hard, earned more and now they get punished for it because you didn't earn as much?
fair?
i don't like the usage basis because too many will not get needed care 'trying not to use it too much'. i like the preventative measures and the mccain plan that will drive down costs for polices with the competition across state lines and the money for families to purchase insurance.
fair enough....thanks...nm
nm
Fair enough.
x
LOL...fair enough, but...(sm)
Here's what Alaska has to say about it.
http://www.ktva.com/ci_11255829
You can also find this story on Fox, AOL news, and a number of publications. From what I gather, Palin's spokesperson has said she won't accept the raise or will donate it. That really doesn't sound right to me, espcially since not only did she have a hand in selecting the committee that decided to give out the raises, but the committee was actually formed in order to evaluate whether raises were needed.
Why do I care about this? My guess is that we will see her again, so I think it's important to keep up with what she's doing in the meantime. I don't believe in that *out of sight, out of mind* thing.
Okay, let''s be fair about it s/m
let's "level the playing field." Let's have everyone paid on production at exactly the same rate for exactly the same amount of work. Let's level the playing field for MTs, that is ALL dictation goes in a pool, you get paid X amount for the work you do. You have easy stuff and you're fast.....too much advantage there.....need to level the playing field and bring you down to a level with those struggling with ESLs, mushmouths and the like. AND by all means let's not let any bargaining power in to help us with negotiations for better pay or medical benefits and LAST BUT NOT LEAST we sure don't want to trouble the greedy MTSOs with even contributing to a 401K as we all know that all medical transcriptionists have the desire to fall over dead while pounding the keyboard at a fairly young age. Unfortunately I know many who have done just that before they even reached retirement age. Of course by the time you youngsters reach retirement age there won't be such a thing as an MT and you may well be cleaning toilets.
to be fair...
KBR provides the galley in Iraq that my husband eats at, which he says is probably the best galley he has ever been to, and saves us money because he still receives his BAS. Without KBR, we would really not make much more money for him being away than we make when he is home because losing his BAS would basically eat up most of the hazardous duty pay he receives. I cannot get your link to do anything, so I am really not sure what this is all about, but from a military family, we do not think KBR is the root of all evil.
I may not seem fair as a tax cut, but...(sm)
what it does do is put money in the hands of people who have to spend it. If they were to just give money to the middle class, most of us would simply save it or pay off bills. That doesn't stimulate the economy. The spending deficit is the main problem with the economy, and that's what they are addressing with this. It's the same theory behind food stamps. Statistically, the poorer the people that receive the money, the more likely it will be spent -- and that's the goal -- to get people to spend money.
Really, if you look at the tax cuts that we are supposed to get that come to what, I think someone said about $13 a week, you will see the same concept. When Bush sent out those rebate checks, the idea, again, was to get people spending money. Well, they didn't. They paid bills and saved -- so we know that doesn't work. However, if you are just getting an extra $13 a week, most people will just see that as an extra $13 for something else they will buy. They will be less likely to save that $13 than they would a lump sum like the ones Bush sent out.
It may not seem fair as a tax cut, but...(sm)
what it does do is put money in the hands of people who have to spend it. If they were to just give money to the middle class, most of us would simply save it or pay off bills. That doesn't stimulate the economy. The spending deficit is the main problem with the economy, and that's what they are addressing with this. It's the same theory behind food stamps. Statistically, the poorer the people that receive the money, the more likely it will be spent -- and that's the goal -- to get people to spend money.
Really, if you look at the tax cuts that the middle class are supposed to get, they come to what, I think someone said about $13 a week, you will see the same concept. When Bush sent out those rebate checks, the idea, again, was to get people spending money. Well, they didn't. They paid bills and saved -- so we know that doesn't work. However, if you are just getting an extra $13 a week, most people will just see that as an extra $13 for something else they will buy. They will be less likely to save that $13 than they would a lump sum like the ones Bush sent out. That means the likelihood of the money being spent is greater.
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