You have just proven the point of the OP, being that
Posted By: anti-American sermons when delivered by....sm on 2008-10-15
In Reply to: You're missing one crucial point - sbMT
white pastors are never perceived as such. You may be too dense to recognize the bigotry and racism in the viewpoints of Falwell, Robertson, Hagee and their ilk, but for the rest of us outside the right-wing WASP Christian Evangelical inner circle, it is positively palpable. For example, what part of Hagee's pronouncements about Katrina victims is void of racism?
When every single Sunday sermon drills the same dogma week after week and year after year, it does not need to be posted on a website or have a fancy name attached to it to make it a philosophy or a theology. It is what it is.
Beyond that, simply stated, none of the hate patrol can present one shred of evidence that Obama holds black liberationist viewpoints except through their impotent guilt by association protestations. His life experience, his political career and his current campaign platform belie even the loudest shouting you canmuster.
You guys have been hawking this Black Liberationist spiel for nearly 2 years now and Obama is leading in the polls by double digits, dear. Nobody seems to be buying what you are selling. What does it take for you to understand that not only is it not working, but it is also transforming your candidate into somebody who has less than zero cerdibility, even on the most legitimate of campaign issues? By the way, most Americans know racism and hatred when they see it...and by the looks of your post, others can't even recognize it when it is coming out of their own mouths.
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Point just proven!
Over and over again on this forum.
Wow, you have just proven my point with such a nasty slam, you knew exactly that I was referring to
thankfully has been translated into the King's English, as I, too, never found the time to learn the old languages, but if you look into any bookstore, you can pick up a copy, best seller, very easy to read and follow with an open heart. Why the nasty slams, do they stem from some very frayed, exposed nerves that come from trying to defend the indefensible? Mr. Bush is a very nice, Christian man in my point of view, I would probably love to meet him, but he made an abdomination out of the office of the presidency, and I am just hoping and praying for a return to respect, decency, hope, altruism, etc for this country. But if the haters have their way, it will never happen, a house divided against itself really will fall, and we can all continue to argue and ridicule. Really sad.
Because MT has proven herself over and over and over
again to be a LIAR. So I've learned to doubt every single thing she says because she is a compulsive liar with no credibility.
I would believe my DOG over anything MT would say.
And as far as Nan having a *civil* long conversation with anyone, ESPECIALLY if MT was involved, I've never seen that happen anywhere on the Conservative board. They don't know what civility is. All they do is attack, bully, gang up and chase away those who don't agree with them.
Just trying to point that out to the liberals who believe that telling the truth is a GOOD thing and that constant lying is BAD.
I think it has been proven..(sm)
that with enough torture anyone will admit to anything. Coming out of Gitmo, I have to take that with a grain of salt.
No he has not proven anything. He still cannot
//
That has yet to be proven...(sm)
We'll have to wait until Israel lets reporters in there to find out the detaills on that. I'm sure by then they will have figured out some other fairy tale for the press.
However, just for the sake of arguement, let's say you are correct and that Hamas was operating from these locations. I still have a problem with that. Think about it this way:
Let's say that you have kids that go to school. One day a group of people show up going postal at the school. Should we just blow up the whole school so we can make sure we get the bad guys? According to your posts, I assume you would think this would be the appropriate response.
These are real people being killed over there that will mourn the loss of their children just as you would yours. The fact that it's not in our backyard doesn't make it any less real for the people living in this nightmare.
Nobody has proven me wrong.
But you've proven just what you are: Just another lying conservative. Maybe someday will come when we finally catch one telling the truth. You have no intention of leaving, and you know it. You live to spread your idiocy.
And as far as what you wrote on the Monitor board about people posting on the Conservative board, if someone did, I wasn't the person who did it.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit if it was YOU who did, though, just to start garbage. That's the way you CONS work. Just like when Bush's goons *leaked* the story about Iraq's *WMDs* in time for it to print on a Saturday, and the very next day, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld were all on the Sunday talk shows saying, *Just like the NYT said yesterday...*
You're not fooling anyone.
You all have proven Rush right ...
no meaningful dialogue, just name-calling.
Right on, Sam. And McCain has proven himself to
nm
Question....now that it has been proven...
that the democrats in Congress are responsible for this 700 billion bailout we are going to be on the hook for...and Obama has taken more in donations from them in his 4 years in the senate than most have in 30 years...you are still going to vote for him? That does not matter to you? Does not bring his decision making process seem a little suspect? I am not trying to start a fight....I am just trying to understand how that would not make you question whether he should be President.
There are studies that have proven
that what FDR did during the great depression actually prolonged the duration of the great depression. Do we really need that?
The first thing I would do is fine all companies who hire illegal immigrants and then load em up and ship em back to Mexico. That would save us a buttload of money right there. Did I mention to ship illegal immigrants back? LOL!
that was proven to not be the case as well
@@
SO far he hasn't proven anything
nm
This last election has proven
that the majority of us do not bother to educate ourselves on a candidate or an issue. We just grab at something shiny: Ooh, ooh! That one speaks well and looks good!
In any election, if there are candidates or issues I don't know enough about to vote on (judgeships, etc.) I actually leave that item blank rather than just put just anybody's name in there! Candidates actually fight to have their name placed at the top, because they know that some voters will just select the first one they see. Or they go for name recogition, and vote for the one who'se spent the most on advertising. Horrifying to think this is how some candidates get elected.
In the election before that I was aghast when a friend that I thought was intelligent said of Bush/Kerry. ''We've tried it one way for four years. Time to try give somebody else a chance.'' When asked, she could not name any area in which Kerry was better; he was just ''different.'' Oh, well, if it's somebody else's turn.......
And that's the main problem with our political system. We seldom get a candidate that really inspires us and too often we just end up voting for the one we hate least, or the one whose name is listed first. Or we get bamboozled by flashy packaging with absolutely nothing inside.
So I have no idea how we make people pay attention and vote responsibly in order to change all this.
this is completely different. It is not proven
yet that Iran HAS nuclear weapon, it is an assumption. To just take the protest about the rigged election as justified reason to attack Iran because of their suspected hidden nuclear bomb arsenal,
is just idiotic. Do we apply again teh 'Weapon of Mass Destruction Theory?' Iran did not threaten yet to shoot missiles to Hawaii, wheres North Korea did and is testing its missiles for a while already.
Obama just cannot meddle or interfere into Iran's internal affairs, yet, don't you understand? It is not the US's business if the election was a fraud and the wrong president was elected.
And it is not the business of the US's to encourage people tocontinue with the protests. Even giving the protesters too much verbal support is dangerous as this will embolden them and the army will slaughter them and even THEN the US has no right to interfere, because it is not a direct threat to the US and the world. Only if Iran brings out its missiles, if it has any.
The US just cannot interfere or attack a sovereign country in defense of democracy and because it is the military superpower. Only if the country asks for it or the UN decides.
I wished Mousavi had won.
I am ignoring your bashing of Obama, to me it is again blah, blah, blah.
That's *innocent* until proven guilty...sm
I don't know which way it will go, but when you tell the truth your story never changes - his did over and over and over.
They have proven ties to Al Queda. nm
nm
In your dictionary - as limited as it has proven to be
x
Yeah, and McCain has at least proven he would
nm
Right on, Kaydie! -at least McCain has proven he
nm
It's a fake and will be proven in time....sm
Why then when asked where Obama was born his family couldn't agree on which hospital in Hawaii....because when you lie you can't keep facts straight that's why. Obama was born in Kenya.
Already proven but the myth continues. nm
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The Palestinians have proven time and again
their preference for a one-state solution - a Palestinian state. Israel has made numerous concessions, agreed to everything they want, only to have new demands made before the ink is dry. All our administrations from Carter on have tried to broker a two-state agreement. Israel is justifiably tired of bargaining in good faith, giving up territory, agreeing to demands, only to find the finish line moved once again. Obama did not invent the concept of a two-state solution. He's just in office when Israel is saying ''enough of this crap, no more going through the motions.''
Hmmm...innocent until proven guilty....
you certainly don't think that about George Bush and Dick Cheney, do you? I don't see you asking fellow liberals not to make judgments until they are proven guilty by a jury of their peers...? LOL. Ahem. Think the hippocracy is showing there a little bit. I certainly don't think Kam is considering them innocent until proven guilty, nor are any of the rest of you by your posts. I believe she considers them guilty and impeachment a formality. So please stop with the noble innocent until proven guilty and that is the best system. You don't believe it across the board, so don't speechify. It rings hollow.
And what makes you think I have always voted a Republican ticket? I can tell you right now, I have not, especially in congressional races where I think the most difference is made.
There is nothing to say that Ron Paul would not be a great President. I threw his name out there because he is so radically different than any other Republican running and any Democrat running. Would not surprise me if he lost the Repub nomination and ran as an Independent, which would give disgusted folks such as myself and Kam a real alternative. But Kam is not disgusted with politics. She hates George Bush and she would not vote for a Republican no matter WHAT he or she said, she said as much. And that is what is wrong with politics today, as you have stated so many times and accused me of not wanting change because I said I would never vote for a Democrat. I said I would not vote for a pro abortion Democrat if I have an alternate choice, you are right. But, there are pro life Democrats and I have voted for some for congressional seats. And would continue to do so if I felt they were the most qualified person on the ticket. That is the reason I threw his name out. The only thing that goes against him being able to make any meaningful change is that Congress would hamstring him. If we really want change, we need an independent prez AND an independent congress. That won't happen this election cycle. That kind of change will take years. It could start with this one, and I think that is exactly what Pelosi is trying to avoid by not letting an impeachment go forward right now...too much might come out.
I am not victimized. If anyone is victimized it is poor Kam with that virulent hatred for George Bush. It sounds like it consumes every waking moment. Good grief. I go on about my daily life just like anyone else does, and in the grand scheme of things, WHOever is elected President has his/her work cut out for him/her, we all know that. If it is a Democrat, all I know for absolutely sure is my taxes are going to go up and social programs won't be reined in, they will just get money thrown at them, and if that doesn't fix them, we will get more programs. It has happened every time. And if there is anything in this country that needs to be fixed, that's it. That is another priority for me, and yes, my congresspeople could attest to that from the sheaves of paper they have received from me.
If it is a Republican, what happens depends upon which one it is. If it is Guiliani, I don't see much difference in he and most Democrats and I would have to weigh him against whatever Dem gets the nomination. If it is Romney, I think the man can balance the budget and get runaway spending under control, because say what you want about the man, he is a financial genius and the government is the biggest business there is, and frankly it needs to be run like one. So, if he is the nominee, most likely he will get my vote, because I think it is HIGH time that someone starts to run the government like a business and gets runaway spending under control, starting with social programs. That is so broken it screams to be fixed.
If nominee is Thompson, he will get my vote. For many reasons, the most important of which is putting power back in the states that the feds have stolen over the years. States have demonstrated time and time again they administer their affairs much better than when the Feds get into it. And states may be able to put enough pressure on their reps that Congress might actually do something about that, even if there is a Dem majority. One can only hope. Ron Paul believes that too, and I am in agreement with him on that. We certainly don't need as much centralized power in DC as we have right now. I will vote for the man (or woman) I feel most qualified and most closely follows my vision for the country, just like I would hope everyone else does.
Kam is disgusted, but it is more about her healthy hatred for the MAN George Bush, and the MAN Cheney which has nothing to do with politics and one need only read her posts about them to see that. Which is all well and good, and that is her right and I would argue for her right to say so. Her crusade is to punish George Bush and I don't really think that is going to cure what is wrong with politics in this country. If she thinks Obama is the answer, then I would think her time and energy would be better spent trying to get him the nomination and the election rather than crusading to punish someone on his way out anyway. But that is just me.
Yes, a lot of things about politics and about the way this country is going is disheartening. I do the best I can with my vote and working for whatever candidate I choose to support. Since I am not a rich person I sure can't throw much money at campaigns, but I do what I can.
As to the law is the law and innocent until proven guilty by a jury of your peers...fine. Does that mean if Bush is impeached and not convicted all would be forgiven on the basis of the law is the law? All of you who are calling for his head would go quietly away because he was judged innocent by his "peers?" ROFL. I don't THINK so.
I would agree with you that we the people of America need to change the way politics are played. But before THAT can happen, the minds of Americans have to change. And the way to do that is stop the bitterly partisan way of thinking (ANY party) and if these political boards, and all the political boards and blogs and sites on the internet are ANY indication, that is not going to happen anytime soon.
Does not mean I am not a happy person, does not mean I am going to slink into a closet and into a depression if Clinton or Obama become President or Paul or WHOEVER becomes President. Life will go on, the chips will fall, and we shall see what happens. Same thing if Guiliani or Romney or Thompson or whoever is elected. It is what it is. Noble ideas and good intentions are wonderful things. But if our Congress cannot drop partisanship long enough to do what is best for the country (if they even know what that is anymore, or care), then it doesn't matter who is President. And I don't know how we can really expect them to if we as rank and file Americans are unwilling to...what goes around comes around, and around, and around, and around....until someone gets off the merry-go-round and pulls the plug. Someone a lot more important, sadly, than kam, than me, or you, piglet. And for the right reasons. And therein lies the rub.
Remember that song, I Need A Hero? Well...America needs one right about now. :)
It has been proven that his birth certificate is authentic. nm
.
It has NOT been proven his certificate is authentic - see note
What he has provide is a computer generated copy - not the original type written certificate typed in a typewriter that was used in 1961 (there were no computers back then), and it is NOT authentic. What part of that don't you understand. The people who said it was authentic is the Annenberg foundation who is connected with Ayers and ACORN - hence, they are tied in and supporting Obama.
This has not been verified otherwise the supreme court would not be issuing an order that it be presented. There is something fishy about the whole issue especially when Obama legally had the records sealed so nobody could see the certificate.
The only ones who will not see this is the Obamabots. Open your eyes - you know, if it's found that he is inelligible to be President then Biden will become President (which is who I wanted for President in the first place and we'll see who he picks as VP).
The issue needs to be resolved and at least now we have a supreme court justice wanting to see the original type written certificate and not a computer generated certificate created by a group who is supporting Obama.
You must be against Michele Obama, then too....she's a proven racist...
and no, I will not tell you what I mean, because if you don't remember, yet again, selective memory, and it was explained away.
But make no mistake. Michele Obama is a racist and a bigot. Married to the Barack Obama.
You will just excuse her, like everything else Obama
So lets do all tax cuts which have proven to be ineffective?
That trickle down crap doesn't work - or haven't you figured that out yet? Hmm, over 10 trillion dollars spent on Bush's watch and what did he accomplish? It sure as helll didn't trickle down but all the CEOs got nice bonuses. This crisis is Bush's doing - why don't you get that?
As proven by the Republican majority in the Senate. Yeehaw! nm
Stem cell research has no proven cure rate.
I remember years and years ago when animal experimentation was being protested. I saw this fellow who was a soap opera actor. He was crying and crying because they wanted to stop torturing animals to find cures. His son had diabetes and he said they were THIS CLOSE to finding a cure. that had to be at least 25 years ago. Millions of animals have died and there is no cure for diabetes. So when does it end?
nope, y'all are sore democrat winners. Obamas are proven bigots and
they'll show their true colors again soon, not to worry.
I think BB has a point here in that the main point on the board is political discussion, and let'
face it, there is SO MUCH going on right now, changes, problems, disasters, and so much debate on what should/could be done, but so many tims the political discussion disintegrates in a finger-pointing, name-calling exercise, spouting religion all over the place. Yeah, our spiritual beliefs are dearly held and we would all strive to be the best we can be, and do whatever we can whatever the ideology is, but sometimes I wonder, since we have a board EXPRESSLY for Faith isuues, where relgious debates/discussions/forums, etc are welcome, why does THIS board have to be turned into RELIGION BOARD PART II, especially if one ideology wants to dominate or ridicule/condemn those who come on here for lively inteligent discussion, debate of issues in Congress and in our lives, and just want their beliefs held separately? CNN is not EWTN or any other Christian network, and there are constant informative, bright, lively, balanced discussions from all over the political spectrum on the credentialed news stations, as well as C-Span, but they are not constantly hiding behind a cross, rosary, bible, star of David, or whatever....can we not strive to do the same and put religious debate on the Faith board?? Just a thought to ponder, MHO, it might work beter, who knows?
is the the starting point or the end point for the middle class?
x
I answered your post point-by-point and
all you can come up with is a lame tit-for-tat? Can you provide some sort of substantive response that would argue against the point I am trying to make here? Of course not.
Please show me what part of my post reflects bigotry or ignorance? I have made a few statements based on my own life experience, rather than the hook-line-and-sinker method of forming my world view. Then the impotence of your suicide bomber reference was buried under concrete evidence of informed, researched and factual data that would suggest an oppressed, occupied, half-starved population does not have the upper hand when it comes to defending themselves against Israel's US-bankrolled arsenal of pain, misery, death and destruction. They are just a tad out-gunned, wouldn't you say?
I answered your post point-by-point and
all you can come up with is a lame tit-for-tat? Can you provide some sort of substantive response that would argue against the point I am trying to make here? Of course not.
Please show me what part of my post reflects bigotry or ignorance? I have made a few statements based on my own life experience, rather than the hook-line-and-sinker method of forming a world view. Then the impotence of your suicide bomber reference was buried under concrete evidence of informed, researched and factual data that would suggest an oppressed, occupied, half-starved population does not exactly have the upper hand when it comes to defending themselves against Israel's US-bankrolled arsenal of pain, misery, death and destruction they employ in order to "secure" themselves.
The Palestinians are just a tad out-gunned, wouldn't you say? This might just account for the lop-sided fatalities/injuries ratios between the Israelis and the Palestinians. In closing, it is worth noting that even with the advantage of all those terrorist toys and tools our tax dollars have bestowed upon them, security and peace of mind just seem to be further and further beyond their reach. Wonder why that is?
If your point is that it was 7 years ago, that's not much of a point is it? sm
Not long ago at all in the scope of things. The point is that the same thing could and probably would happen here. 9-11 happened 7 years ago too....I guess that couldn't happen again, huh?
I get your point, but my main point is -
why should the government be allowed to tell people what they can and can't eat? Everyone says the government is too involved in our business anyway, so if they should stay out of one part of our lives, they should stay out of all parts of our lives!
and your point is??
Your point is?? Bush is the one who waged this immoral illegal wrong war, not all the democrats you have posted quotes on. It is BUSH, the chimp boy, who waged the war and used every kind of excuse possible, flip flopping back and forth over the reasons. Now that we know there are no WMD and we have gotten Saddam, what is the excuse for being there and not setting a time plan to leave?? Of course the reason has always been the murderous foreign policy of the US, to have its bloody hands in every country it possibly can. They are just salivating in DC over the fact that we will have control over the Middle East and OIL. Bush and his group are war criminals, just as bad as Saddam.
the point is
If these brave soldiers did not have to go to Vietnam, a useless, wrong war (it has been PROVEN, DEBATED AND PROVEN AGAIN AND AGAIN, EVEN BY THOSE WHO WERE IN THE MILITARY), their physical and emotional illnesses never would have happened..and there would have been no people turning against them. There were thousands upon thousands of protestors telling Nixon, bring our boys home and a few turning against the soldiers. The war is what scarred and has continued to torture these soldiers..the wrong war of that day just like the wrong war of now, Iraq..And where is the VA to help those of Vietnam? Bush continues to cut the budget for the VA, even though we will have thousands once again home from a useless, immoral, illegal war..I read an article the other day how the soldiers coming home are divorcing quite a bit..another thing these soldiers have to deal with..physical ailments, mental ailments, not adjusting to society, divorce..these were happy job holding family people before Bush got his blood hands on them. Thanks Bush.
You see, that's my whole point...
...the truth of this quote is why it's important. You can't ignore the inherent truth in an observation simply because you don't like the bearer of that message. I believe that if one truly examined history and discarded labels such as socialist, liberal, yes, even conservative (these labels change with time and are not static philosophies) I believe history would show that the the last part of this quote is right on about what it takes to be successful in uniting a country/party against a supposed "foe." Some have said hatred is the biggest uniter of a people that there is.
The point.
While there were quite a few issues in this article that were noteworthy, to me at least, the main point was that the Bush/war supporters are going to have a chance to participate in the war that they love. Since we broke Iraq we have to fix it and we can't afford to and the military can't do it so, in its infinite wisdom, the administration has come up with a "Peace Corps" type scenario where professionals of all vein VOLUNTEER to go to Iraq and work, for free. This is just too good. How many of those on the conservative board do you think will volunteer to go, or their husbands, sons, relatives? And like he said, if you voted for Bush put your money where your magnet is, smack dab in the middle of the Sunni triangle.
We have and have had for a long time alternatives energy resources. You can destroy the Gulf of Mexico, Alaska and wherever else you want but in a few years we will be right back here. The oil supply is finite. Get used to it. Time to switch gears and explore the alternatives. But again, I can't wait to see who signs up for volunteer duty...next stop is Vietnam (Oh, I mean Iran, no I mean Iraq...).
Well, to each his own, which is exactly my point.
I can not discount your points here without discounting mine. I can't explain why people sign up, but my guess would be that some need money, jobs and opportunities and are praying if they do go to Iraq they will make it back in one piece. There are obviously a lot of people who believe in the cause of this war, I'm just not one. And like I say, some have fallen hook-line-and-sinker into the justification for this war, or believe it is important to free the Iraqis and somehow this is going to protect America.
I say again, to each his own. May God be with them all!
That is not the point! sm
The point is, expect the unexpected. Don't get all hyper about guns. I should never have mentioned that here, I am sure. I was making a point where has, yet again, been twisted! Good grief!
There is no point to THAT. SM
Everyone knows that paper is and always has been anti-Bush. I'm sorry, but you guys won't take stuff from NewsMax and FrontPageMag, which are both WAY WAY BIGGER than this little rag. Don't expect me to take this seriously.
It's my point.nm
x
And your point is
 It's all Bush's fault, by the way. It's the evil Republican's fault, but especially Bush. It's ALL his fault. It's America's fault, too! IMPEACH AMERICA. You are my hero.
But, at what point...
do you just toss your arms up in the air and give up on teaching people how to use birth control. It's not rocket science. How many decades of teaching do we need? I think we already have a cornucopia of information available everywhere on how to use birth control. It's not like it's a taboo subject. I have to think that the computer saavy youth of today, who can jump through hoops on the internet, if interested, could find out with the click of a button just exactly how to use any given birth control. We can fund education to the hilt, but stupid careless people will always be stupid careless people. It's sad.
You got a point there...nm
I know all I need to. I see no point in this.
.
But the point is, we believe what we believe.
In this instance, you feel the war is morally illegal and I don't.
Yes....that was my point.
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