Yes, there are also innocent people in prisons on death row.
Posted By: ? on 2009-04-28
In Reply to: The people who are in Gitmo - Trigger Happy
Therefore I am against the death penalty.
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Innocent people s/m
I hear that there is not a guilty person in prison. Another thing that needs fixed in our government at all levels, justice depends on how much money you have. I really, really doubt that there are that many truly innocent people on death row. I think that before an execution, there should be absolutely no doubt about guilt. Say O.J. and Scott Peterson. Don't you think they deserve the death penalty. Well, I know that O.J. was found not guilty but no doubt in my mind he was guilty as sin.
I'm not talking about innocent people
I'm talking about people who raping, pillaging, setting fires, shooting rescuers, and stealing ambulances. I have heard of no one but you defending this though I'm sure there's a minority fringe like you who are such as Molly Ivins etc. I think your post revealed to me how out of the mainstream of thinking you are.
By the way, New Orleans had one of the highest crime rates in the country before the hurricane. There are people from that city who are freely admitting that there were places you didn't want to be caught dead in.
Honestly you don't believe there is evil in the world. I really feel sorry for you for that, because one day you will most likely be a victim and then you will be very confused....
I defend all innocent people....nm
nm
Clinton wasn't killing innocent people. NM
:
My post ' I defend all innocent people' was a reply to the
question
'Do you also defend the innocent people in our local prisons because I'm sure that there are a few in there who are actually innocent..'
You people are scared to death of her.
nm
So I guess people's death bed wishes are obsolete once they die? sm
You are really sounding very disgusting tonight. I hope you are not really this evil in your daily life. God help your family members if you are.
the death of Wall Street is the death of the USA...you really want that????? nm
Most of these are federal prisons and
military bases that do have prisons for military personnel plus the barracks.
Don't get so upset. I think most of that link is just to fire up people's imagination. What do you think they would do with the prisoners in these federal prisons???? Turn them loose? Don't think so. It's scare tactics.
Islamic influence in prisons is not a new
This has been going on for quite some time. Unfortunately, what is taught in prison isn't "mainstream" Islam, but a corruption of it that really amounts to nothing more than criminal enterprise cloaked in the guise of religious activity. As such, the hands of prison officials are basically tied when it comes to trying to stop it because they would be interfering with a prisoner's "religious freedoms".
You are kidding, right? Are you referring to the waterboarding in the prisons?
The difference is that those who are getting waterboarded in prisons do not know if they are going to be rescued or not. I also think that the 'procedure' takes longer than just 40 seconds.
Every second they have the feeling to get finally drowned. And I assume that some are really drowned when they do not give the expected answers.
And besides the interrogators are asking for 'answers' many do not have, or give answers just to get rescued.
It is different if a physician and a psychiatrist are standing by ensuring your rescue.
Saddam's rape rooms are replaced by US prisons.....
In addition, how many people DIE of starvation every single day in Africa (mostly children)? We don't even have to invade a country to save them.
Below is a report on Abu Ghraib prison. Some Iraquis might not agree with how much more moral the Americans are:
"[B]etween October and December 2003, at the Abu Ghraib Confinement Facility (BCCF), numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees. This systemic and illegal abuse of detainees was intentionally perpetrated by several members of the military police guard force. … The allegations of abuse were substantiated by detailed witness statements (ANNEX 26) and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic evidence. … I find that the intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts:
a. Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;
b. Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;
c. Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;
d. Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;
e. Forcing naked male detainees to wear women's underwear;
f. Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;
g. Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;
h. Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture; …
j. Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee's neck and having a female soldier pose for a picture;
k. A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;
l. Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee …
These findings are amply supported by written confessions provided by several of the suspects, written statements provided by detainees, and witness statements. …
In addition, several detainees also described the following acts of abuse, which under the circumstances, I find credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses (ANNEX 26):
a. Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;
b. Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;
c. Pouring cold water on naked detainees;
d. Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;
e. Threatening male detainees with rape; …
g. Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick."
—Executive summary of Taguba report, finalized Feb. 29, 2004, briefed to superiors on March 3, 2004, and submitted in final form on March 9, 2004
I did not say innocent.........
She opted to have all of the eggs implanted (not the norm and outside ethical responsibility). They erroneously thought she had 7 viable fetuses (the 8th was hidden somewhere.....). The doc should have pushed for selective termination to reduce the number. The fact that she chose to carry them all to term indicates to me that she is short a few fries of a happy meal. I suspect she knew she would make headlines and that would ignite support from all over in the form of gifts, cash, etc., so she could continue her "puppy mill" in relative financial comfort. I still stand by the assumption she's nuts and the doc made a huge mistake.
I know that innocent
people have gone through horrible things when they were wrongly accused, etc. However, there are so many more of them that are guilty. My biggest problem with the death penalty is that it is so expensive. A rope or a bullet is a lot cheaper than lethal injections. I personally feel that if we were harsher on prisoners....more of them would stop doing it. A three strikes your out kind of thing. We have so many prisons that are overcrowded that criminals, rapists, etc. are being send out early risking many more innocent lives that way.
If Rove is innocent
why didnt he come forward before now and state what actually went down? Because of his silence, Judith Miller is in jail, Matthew Cooper was threatened with jail, thousands of tax dollars have been spent on a Grand Jury and a special prosecutor and now quite possibly a trial.
Yes, he was acquitted. But he was not innocent....
we all know that. We saw him commit perjury. National TV. Yes, my fangs are showing. I don't like it when Pres of US flaunts the law and Congress lets him get away with it. Actually, I blame Congress just as much, but sides of the house, because they did not have the integrity NOR the guts to convict him. At least when Nixon was proven to be guilty he still had a modicum of decency and resigned. Clinton did not have enough class OR integrity to do the same. 'Nuff said.
Oh of course....in the land where you are innocent if...
proven not guilty...you are seizing on poor judgment. Don't you think it is poor judgment to consort with terrorists and spend 20 years in an america-hating church? This is not bad judgment? McCain did not cost us anything. Keating, the one who perpetrated the financial debacle...is responsible for that loss.
Good, they might be innocent. sm
They call Americans who quote the constitution or dissent terrorists.
Just like all those innocent folks were
due process. . .preach some of your idiocracy to their survivors.
I do not think that she was an innocent guinea pig....sm
How would you have reacted being informed within a couple of weeks by US that you will deliver not 1, but e i g h t babies, in addition to already having 6 ?
Wouldn't you have asked for a termination?
Do you also defend the innocent
people in our local prisons because I'm sure that there are a few in there who are actually innocent......however, most of them are NOT.
As for me not knowing for sure whether they were indeed tortured or not......how do you know that they were tortured? Were you there? Did you talk to them? Do you have a pin pal at Gitmo, do ya?
I'm sure there are some innocent men at Gitmo but this is war. It was war when the terrorists killed thousands of Americans in one day and then celebrated their actions. We have gone from a 9/11 mentality to a pre 9/11 mentality. We seem to have forgetten that we were attacked and that these people desire nothing more than our death.
these 4 are innocent Gitmos.............sm
' The four were among 17 Chinese Muslims, or Uighurs, picked up in Afghanistan and Pakistan in 2001. They remained at the military detention center in Cuba
even after the U.S. government had determined they weren't enemy combatants and should be released.
Their fate was in limbo for months while courts and nations debated their future.'
That's *innocent* until proven guilty...sm
I don't know which way it will go, but when you tell the truth your story never changes - his did over and over and over.
Yes, this is an innocent child. What if it ISN'T true?
What does this do to that 16-year-old? What about that?
JM is totally innocent of this same charge?
publically stepped up and appealed to his supporters to rein it in. O at least tries to do this when he sees tings getting out of hand.
I too am for defending innocent animals
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. ALL animals should be treated in a humane fashion.
I am offended that people will defend wildlife and endangered species but they think nothing of eating meat and animals that have been treated cruelly.
How can you say it's cruel to hunt animals, but you don't think it's cruel how chickens, cattle, pigs and other animals are treated before you (no, not you personally because I don't know if your a vegetarian) but people who are not vegetarians will think nothing and don't care how the animals they are eating are being treated.
what about those folks we swept up who are entirely innocent?
nm
Many of them are innocent and should be sent home to their families.
You should be more frightened of the American prisoners than the alleged terrorists that we have illegally held in Gitmo and tortured with the permission of George W. Bush and his cronies.
I am guessing Fort Leavenworth was there before you took up residence. If you don't like living near a prison, you are free to move.
They're ALL innocent...ask 'em!
x
WHAT is GOOD about that? Especially if the prisoner is innocent.
Even the guilty ones might just confess to ANYTHING, just to stop the torture that often goes so far as to cripple a human being for life.
99% of the Abu Ghraib detainees were innocent....sm
and were tortured!
UPDATE yourself!
He is *innocent* but is up to his eyeballs in lies and deciet...sm
If he had been honest and up front, you know the way you expected President Clinton to be about his sex life, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Why do you defend killing of innocent civilians?
I have never said I defend Hezbollah. I don't defend Hezbollah. They're terrorists, and they're horrible.
But blindly defending Israel, regardless of what they do, doesn't work for me either. What is most disquieting to me is that you defend Israel's placement of landmines to kill innocent civilians, designed to go off at a later date when people least expect it? Why don't you consider that terrorism, as well?
Hmmm...innocent until proven guilty....
you certainly don't think that about George Bush and Dick Cheney, do you? I don't see you asking fellow liberals not to make judgments until they are proven guilty by a jury of their peers...? LOL. Ahem. Think the hippocracy is showing there a little bit. I certainly don't think Kam is considering them innocent until proven guilty, nor are any of the rest of you by your posts. I believe she considers them guilty and impeachment a formality. So please stop with the noble innocent until proven guilty and that is the best system. You don't believe it across the board, so don't speechify. It rings hollow.
And what makes you think I have always voted a Republican ticket? I can tell you right now, I have not, especially in congressional races where I think the most difference is made.
There is nothing to say that Ron Paul would not be a great President. I threw his name out there because he is so radically different than any other Republican running and any Democrat running. Would not surprise me if he lost the Repub nomination and ran as an Independent, which would give disgusted folks such as myself and Kam a real alternative. But Kam is not disgusted with politics. She hates George Bush and she would not vote for a Republican no matter WHAT he or she said, she said as much. And that is what is wrong with politics today, as you have stated so many times and accused me of not wanting change because I said I would never vote for a Democrat. I said I would not vote for a pro abortion Democrat if I have an alternate choice, you are right. But, there are pro life Democrats and I have voted for some for congressional seats. And would continue to do so if I felt they were the most qualified person on the ticket. That is the reason I threw his name out. The only thing that goes against him being able to make any meaningful change is that Congress would hamstring him. If we really want change, we need an independent prez AND an independent congress. That won't happen this election cycle. That kind of change will take years. It could start with this one, and I think that is exactly what Pelosi is trying to avoid by not letting an impeachment go forward right now...too much might come out.
I am not victimized. If anyone is victimized it is poor Kam with that virulent hatred for George Bush. It sounds like it consumes every waking moment. Good grief. I go on about my daily life just like anyone else does, and in the grand scheme of things, WHOever is elected President has his/her work cut out for him/her, we all know that. If it is a Democrat, all I know for absolutely sure is my taxes are going to go up and social programs won't be reined in, they will just get money thrown at them, and if that doesn't fix them, we will get more programs. It has happened every time. And if there is anything in this country that needs to be fixed, that's it. That is another priority for me, and yes, my congresspeople could attest to that from the sheaves of paper they have received from me.
If it is a Republican, what happens depends upon which one it is. If it is Guiliani, I don't see much difference in he and most Democrats and I would have to weigh him against whatever Dem gets the nomination. If it is Romney, I think the man can balance the budget and get runaway spending under control, because say what you want about the man, he is a financial genius and the government is the biggest business there is, and frankly it needs to be run like one. So, if he is the nominee, most likely he will get my vote, because I think it is HIGH time that someone starts to run the government like a business and gets runaway spending under control, starting with social programs. That is so broken it screams to be fixed.
If nominee is Thompson, he will get my vote. For many reasons, the most important of which is putting power back in the states that the feds have stolen over the years. States have demonstrated time and time again they administer their affairs much better than when the Feds get into it. And states may be able to put enough pressure on their reps that Congress might actually do something about that, even if there is a Dem majority. One can only hope. Ron Paul believes that too, and I am in agreement with him on that. We certainly don't need as much centralized power in DC as we have right now. I will vote for the man (or woman) I feel most qualified and most closely follows my vision for the country, just like I would hope everyone else does.
Kam is disgusted, but it is more about her healthy hatred for the MAN George Bush, and the MAN Cheney which has nothing to do with politics and one need only read her posts about them to see that. Which is all well and good, and that is her right and I would argue for her right to say so. Her crusade is to punish George Bush and I don't really think that is going to cure what is wrong with politics in this country. If she thinks Obama is the answer, then I would think her time and energy would be better spent trying to get him the nomination and the election rather than crusading to punish someone on his way out anyway. But that is just me.
Yes, a lot of things about politics and about the way this country is going is disheartening. I do the best I can with my vote and working for whatever candidate I choose to support. Since I am not a rich person I sure can't throw much money at campaigns, but I do what I can.
As to the law is the law and innocent until proven guilty by a jury of your peers...fine. Does that mean if Bush is impeached and not convicted all would be forgiven on the basis of the law is the law? All of you who are calling for his head would go quietly away because he was judged innocent by his "peers?" ROFL. I don't THINK so.
I would agree with you that we the people of America need to change the way politics are played. But before THAT can happen, the minds of Americans have to change. And the way to do that is stop the bitterly partisan way of thinking (ANY party) and if these political boards, and all the political boards and blogs and sites on the internet are ANY indication, that is not going to happen anytime soon.
Does not mean I am not a happy person, does not mean I am going to slink into a closet and into a depression if Clinton or Obama become President or Paul or WHOEVER becomes President. Life will go on, the chips will fall, and we shall see what happens. Same thing if Guiliani or Romney or Thompson or whoever is elected. It is what it is. Noble ideas and good intentions are wonderful things. But if our Congress cannot drop partisanship long enough to do what is best for the country (if they even know what that is anymore, or care), then it doesn't matter who is President. And I don't know how we can really expect them to if we as rank and file Americans are unwilling to...what goes around comes around, and around, and around, and around....until someone gets off the merry-go-round and pulls the plug. Someone a lot more important, sadly, than kam, than me, or you, piglet. And for the right reasons. And therein lies the rub.
Remember that song, I Need A Hero? Well...America needs one right about now. :)
Darn right - we must ALWAYS err on the side of protecting the INNOCENT.
xx
I was also told I was racist cuz I did not believe OJ Simpson was innocent. Whatever.
xx
Not revenge!-to save innocent lives from MORE
nm
is it right to torture a prisoner to prove that he is innocent?..sm
More prisoners are tortured to death or drippled for life because they do not have anything to confess.
yep....and tax everyone to death
for it like the Europeans do. We are over taxed enough as it is, and to me over taxation is slavery. I don't expect anyone to be forced to take care of my medical bills, so why do you think I should be forced to take care of yours? I voluntarily tithe to my church...nobody beats me over the head every Sunday and makes me do it. I do it out of a spirit of giving. God doesn't make me do it, so why should the government?
One reason drug prices are so high in America is because of litigation. People want drugs here, but if there's an ill side effect or someone falls over dead....let the suing begin!!! We are a country of wusses and victims, and then we wonder why we pay so much at the counter, because all the costs of lawyers and endless studies just to try and keep litigation at bay
If we would get over our selfish wussification then life would be so much more bearable for all. We would take care of our sick and elderly like God directed us to do in the Bible and our world would be a much better place, but I don't see selfishness ending anytime soon not as long as people think someone else should go to work for them when they are capable working and then pay their medical bills to boot.
My bet is Delay will be found innocent and Rove is old news.
Besides, last time I check we had a system of balances in this country. The time and the law will prevail, I have no doubt.
Aren't you the one who said CONS was an *innocent* abbreviation? TOO GOOD. LOL!
From innocent pub plant in a rally to podium sidekick
put himself out there. For some, Joe is the everyman's man...for other's, the everyman's sham, and the spectator's seem to be fairly equally splint on that impression of him. No sympathy for the plant. Beating your gms and getting all exercised over this is a waste of time and isn't going to clean up the mess McC made with Joe the unlicensed. BTW, when getting all outraged over Joe's invasion of privacy, let's don't forget McCain's hand in that one, OK?
We murder 4000 innocent babies by abortion each
and every day, 50 million total so far in this country and counting, and now we will pay for abortions worldwide. Social Security is bankrupt but would not be if those 50 million innocent children had had a choice for life. No one can deny that fact.
Add it up: Abortion kills 4000 innocent babies each day. Queers do not populate.
I would definitely say we are practicing population control, and Obama gonna see we practice worldwide.
Weren't they captured in Tora Bora? Innocent, I'm not so sure.
nm
sick to death
And..in the midst of all this chaos, when IMHO, no one should feel like partying, vacationing..we should be worrying and doing whatever we can..but in the midst..where is Condoleezza? Why, on a two day vacation in NYC, taking in Spamalot, the broadway show..chuckling it up, while New Orleans burns and people die. A witness said people were shocked to see her enjoying herself at the theatre when parts of her country are descending into madness. Then she went to Ferragammo (spell?) and was buying shoes for a few thousand dollars. Someone walked up to her and started telling her off, about how could she party when America is in such pain. She called security over and had the woman evicted..such is how OUR SERVANTS act, like they are king and queen. I mean, come on, even if you couldnt care less about what is going down, show a little respect and stay home until this is under control..FEMA should have gotten planes and aid out the very next morning to the gulf region, Bush knew this was gonna be a bad storm..he could have had the planes loaded up and waiting for the next morning after the storm..but, as is usual with this administration, Bush and his cohorts wait until chaos, as in Iraq, and then he acts but then it is too late. Well, the other day I posted how one day the masses will have their backs up against the wall and American politicians will have to create programs and help them..I see a minor version of what I was posting about..and, like that song says..*when you aint got nothing, you got nothing to lose*. This is an extremely dire situation..If the people in the gulf region dont calm down and get things under control on their own, the police and other authorities will not be able to, unless they shoot them all..and that will put blood on their hands and Bush's hands for not acting fast enough to show these poor people, that the govt cares..I am sick to my stomach over the evolving situation.Bush's approval is at 46%, just wait it will be even lower next time a poll is taken..
The Death of Outrage.
Ever read it? Great book. Bill Bennett wrote it. It's very applicable to certain people. You might not like it. Well, anyway, what Bennett was doing (and he explained it) is what you would do in a hypothetical philosophical discussion.
I'll use a silly example: Suppose we were in the Star Wars galaxy, both former senators, sitting at a posh club on Coroscant drinking jin-jin juice. You happened to remark to me, You know, I hear it has been said in the Outer Rim that if we killed all the Jedi babies, there would be less mind control instances. Now, some ditz from the Tatooine Times-Picayune records us secretly and has it on MSNBCABCCBSNBCFOX channel on the Galactic Network. Except, they only playback this part,if we killed all the Jedi babies, there would be less mind control instances. Would you still say it was stupid, ill-conceived of yourself to say that? Bennett was alluding, of course, to Freakanomics, and if you don't know what that is, then you have no business even discussing this subject at all. But if you DID know what that was, and you were of a mind to say, he should have mentioned Freakanomics often during the conversation, then I would ask you this. Do you constantly say over and over in each sentence in a conversation any reference you are alluding to in a discussion? Oh, I know how very bad many here want to portray Bill as a racist. But he isn't. Not that the truth will matter one iota to you. Remember that stupid remark your HERO Bill Maher made on his show that got him yanked off the air? Remember, he called Clinton a coward and the terrorists heroes. He wasn't really serious, he was just kind of throwing it out there, but GOSH OH GOLLY people took him seriously and POOF he was gone. He's back, which is unfortunate, but I know how much you like him. See, sometimes people say things in ways you really have to dig for the meaning. I will give you that Bennett could have said what he said differently. Hyperbole is wasted on people with concrete thinking (all Republicans are rich, The Democrats are the party of the poor). What I WON'T GIVE YOU is that Bennett is a racist. Because he isn't.
So are you against the death penalty? sm
B/c I agree that only in rare cases should the death penalty be used, i.e., mass murderers and serial killers, people who harm children, etc.
But yes, I was rationalizing. I would expect that in a state where the death penalty is legal the governer must rationalize when making decisions regarding clemancy (sp).
I am against the death penalty. SM
I didn't use to be, but I am against it now. I do know that certain kinds of criminals, rapists, child molesters, have a high rate of recidivism. They just cannot be rehabilitated. I think they should be locked away and never let out.
*Death squad?*???
What have you and your professor friend been smoking?! Where do you think we learned the word jihad oh scholarly one? We learned it from the terrorists. Perhaps you and your professor friend should hold classes for THEM so that THEY understand what jihad really means. As far as stereotypes...you can talk until you are blue in the face. When Muslims stand up and start denouncing what is being done in the name of Islam and are instrumental in trying to stop it, I will be much more interested in what they have to say. And if 5 foot tall red headed Texans start flying planes into buildings and blowing people up in the name of the 5 foot red headed texas gods, you can darn well bet I will be suspicious of 5 foot red headed Texans! Sheesh. You are UNBELIEVABLE.
Sick to death of it all.......
Is anyone else just really tired of this election and all the crap that goes along with it? I'm so sick and tired of political parties. I'm tired of the families of the candidates being targets. I'm tired of the mud flinging. I think I'm going to take a break from all the political hoopla.
I am not for the death penalty
I think the only way a person should die is when it is their time, not by any other person's decision. I do think the jails/prisons these days give way too many perks though.
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