Yes, take those words out of context and use them. Right, no flame whatsoever.

• On CNN this morning, John McCain picked...sm - oldtimer
  • Sure starting to look like she wasn't fully vetted and chosen last minute as a token female...nm - read that 2
    • You obviously have access to the internet... - See message
      • I have been doing research...here's just one of the MANY places I get SOME info...sm - read that 2
        • That's not the reasearch I'm talking about. - See message
        • Doing research at the Huffpost is like... - sm
          • Sure she was fine with you until she wised up - and switched parties. She make valid points..sm
          • I expected that so where do you all get your info...please share so ...sm - read that 2
            • try Media Matters - Sandy
            • meant to say "NOT" the ONLY place I go to..NM - oops
    • It's all in the interpretation. :) nm - sam
      • That's very true - Tired MT
  • apparently - Minos
    • That is if you can believe everything you read on the news. - I sure as heck don't. sm
      • actually - Minos
        • You seem to have your mind made up - and of course...
        • Either side can fail to deliver on promises. My only hope and prayer is that - the new POTUS improves this country. sm
          • Great post - and many excellent points
          • Wow...good post. Lots of valid questions... - sam
            • Your post was also very good. I - Backwards typist
              • well, the one thing that the VP has is... - sam
          • reply - Minos
            • I've looked at Barack's voting record, though, and don't see that. - I wish I did, truly. sm
              • words from your post - Sandy
                • Yes, take those words out of context and use them. Right, no flame whatsoever. - Already said not interested in McCain.sm
                  • i pulled theme - Sandy
            • It seems "Barack" takes credit for a lot and blame for nothing. - POTUS is not listening to "Barack."
              • And you know this how? Cite sources. Give stats. - Status should be recent. sm
                • oil companies - Sandy
                  • May we just keep in mind that these.... - sam
        • Oil companies employ people too... - sam
      • news - Minos
        • Opinions count. Nothing wrong in researching them as long as - Equal time, consideration given to all views. nm
          • No problem with that, as long as opinion is not regarded as fact... - sam
            • Agreed. And when it does mislead - Should be exposed and discounted. nm
              • Agree completely. nm - sam
        • Nice post. Stick to the facts and away from... - sam
        • Oh gee...that sounds like too much - FYI
          • Yep, the above-mentioned was just put on MSNBC. Hardly digging deep for - the news, which was my point. Better sources .. sm
    • If teens don't know how to obtain bc pills in this day--- - They also know how to get abortion if they want on
      • teenagers - Minos
        • Conservatives are for control over their own children and less control by govt - Simple fact - whether sex ed, or whatever.
          • BTW, I have two sons, but I did teach them about sex - and abstinance...sm
        • The left has decided to make it about the teenager... - sam
          • What facts support that the "left" exposed this news as you say? - It was in the media, but where do you..sm
            • Consider this - but do your research
              • Of course, the Hillary blog has the all - What?
                • Sorry, I mistakenly thought we were adult enough - to have a discussion. sm
            • No, not at all...it started on the far left rag... - sam
              • Barack can't control what media says/does with the stories. - That's my point. Don't want to see..sm
                • I did NOT imply that his camp started it.... - sam
              • So you don't think a right-winger - FYI
                • That could happen - but...
                  • Another reason not to watch FOX! LOL - Down with FOX News
                    • You would not want to be silencing the only ... - sam
                • No, I haven't considered it, and the people who own dailykos... - sam
            • apparently - Minos
              • Does the behavior on this board not kinda... - sam
    • With all due respect.... - sam
  • His campaign has released several statements - sm
  • She was vetted several months ago, back when she made his short list. - Talking heads just read what's in front of them
  • Don't believe that. - sam

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what the perks of being president are?  Along with his salary, he also gets an annual $50,000 entertainment expense account, just like previous presidents have received.  Did you gripe about Bush entertaining people at the White House while he was running up the deficit?  I doubt it.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/CEOProfiles/story?id=6806414&page=1

I agree.

I like the fact that she is NOT a Washingtonian ..... Obama took a big hit with me - all that talk about change and then he picks Biden -- who has been in Washington most of his life, who does the Democrat double talk better than most!

I like the fact that she stands up for what she believes in and fights the big boys when necessary.

I like the fact she is a normal person .... sure, they have some money but .... she has problems and is dealing with them.   Her husband is blue collar worker, and to me that is a plus. 

Do I think she is ready to be VP?   I have to do more thinking and soul searching about that ...

Be honest about it -- they both chose their running mates based on what they hoped would help them win the most votes ... not who they really wanted or thought was most qualified!! 

I wanted a McCain/Lieberman ticket myself.

BUT.......  she does NOT deserve the crap she is taking.  That is what is wrong with politics in this country. 

The people who COULD do the best job -- WON'T EVEN RUN. They won't subject themselves to the BS they have to endure .....

JMHO .. I will be watching, reading and listening over the next few months.  Tough decisions to be made!

You apparently think I'm gt, but I'm not. 

But keep defending the behavior of your cohorts.

Oh, the quote definitely is not out of context and the world and most of America realizes it, that is, the part of America that isnt brain washed by the radical neocons or radical christian movement, you know, the normal Americans, not the Bush sheeple..Posting on other boards?  Many years experience here, also many years experience on Yahoo groups and political chat rooms, so I dont need *lessons*.  Thank you.  Oh, also years experience in the local democratic party and government..Been a political person since high school.

Yes, I know your post appeared before Cease Fire.  As soon as I pressed the Post Reply button, there you were, right back up there taking one last “shot”…your words, not mine.  Cease fire…broken before it even began.  That would suggest that the 3^rd person rules of engagement never applied either.  You have made it quite clear that you prefer the garbage-out/garbage in approach…again, just dancing to your tune.  Remember the part about someone always being around to answer bigotry’s call-to-arms?  Thus, the gloves stay off for the time being.  Besides, your rejection of the olive branch is fairly apparent by now. 

He’s my friend, not my therapist.  He still has so many issues of his own, he would be the first one to say that he’s the one who needs the couch.  He is brilliant when it comes to helping others, just not when it comes to helping himself.  We have known each other for 42 years.  He actually seeks my advice, and I his..it’s personal, not professional. 

The economics is way to vast to get into for the time being.  May another time, but in terms of what we spend to “support” illegals, that amount is a drop in the bucket when compared to the profits generated for transnational corporations (those guys who actually run the country) in the maquilidoras in Mexico and the cheap labor pool they create once they cross that porous border.  So yeah, I got some 4-letter words on that subject.  Just ask yourself this fundamental question.  Who stands to gain/profit from all this?  As long as the transnationals’ bottom line is in the black, they have no motive to “fix” this “problem.”  Don’t hold your breath.  This is what global economy looks like.    

The yada, yada, yada was not referring to the path to citizenship.  I was talking about entering with legal status.  Let’s put a face on a case.  I had a Filipino friend (fellow MT) back in 1983, who entered on a work visa and applied for permanent residence.  That took 3 years.  She waited.  No problem.  Then she tried to apply for her 5 children.  By 1986, the laws relative to family unification requirements had changed.  In 1983, she only would have had to wait another 5 years (AFTER becoming a resident) for approval to sponsor HER OWN CHILDREN.  Whoops.  No so fast.  By 1986, that generous 5-year wait had been doubled to (count ‘em) 10 years for Filipinos.  She traveled back and forth over those years while immigration did its thing to see her children and husband, who had stayed behind to raise them in her absence. 

Her kids were school age when she when she started this.  By the time they were all together again, her youngest was a sophomore in college.  She waited.  She did it all nice and legal.  Excuses, excuses, excuses?  Good things come to those who wait?  What’s so great about a mother missing 13 years of her children’s lives?  Was it worth it?  The price they paid was way too high.  They had all become so disillusioned and had lost so much, within 5 years after completing the process, the entire family turned around and went back to the Philippines.  So much for THEIR Ameican dream and playing by the rules.  Maybe good riddance to some, a tragic shame to others.  That’s just one case….and yeah, there are plenty of 4-letter words that reveal just how many others there were.  Things have gotten a whole lot worse since then, but your party still insists these arcane laws are “too liberal” to suit them.  Puh-leeze.  So no, I don’t pick and choose laws that suit me.  Simply stated, bad laws need to be changed, or eliminated all together.  

No national spokesperson here.  Just a lifetime of experience (sorry, Sam, you left yourself wide open by trying to be so cute).  U of H, 1967…that pesky urban academic forum you love to hate.  Free speech for all students was encouraged and accommodated back then.  Alongside Viet Nam War, civil rights and nascent women’s lib protests were the highly visible and vocal Arabs and Iranians, here on student visas, nice and legal, the way you claim you like it.  Their issues were:

1. The 6-day war, when US-backed Israel stepped up its bloodthirsty quest to drive an entire Palestinian population into the refugee diaspora by expanding its illegal occupations of Syria and Egypt.  They created some great future killing fields in Golan and Gaza by rearranging a few borders and chopping up the West Bank like a piece of cheap mortadella, sending millions of refugees fleeing into Jordan, which has never been the same, Syria, Europe and the US.   


2. The pros and cons of Arab political unity as an appropriate response to such blatant aggression and invasion.  Now this idea scares the pants off the US.  If the Arabs were ever to unify, and especially if they ally themselves with Iran, the world power that would create could crush US superpower ambitions with its eyes shut.  US was really nervous about that prospect.  Not hard to figure why they have spent trillons of dollars since 1948 (Israel's birthday) and turned a blind eye to all that bloodshed in an effort to keep that region just as destabilized as possible.  Where's the outrange over that expense?  Oil makes countries do some crazy stuff. 


3. The formation of the OPEC states as organized by the Shah of Iran, the puppet monarch the US backed after their successful early 1950s coup that removed Mosadegh, the secular democratic prime minister who wanted to eliminate Western control and nationalize Iran’s oil.  Democracy in the Middle East?  Right.  “Oil”agarchy?  Nothing new under the sun.  Imperialism?  Old as the hills. 


4. The subsequent withdrawal of US backing for the Shah when he had the audacity to take a page out of Mosadegh’s book to suggest that Iran should control it OWN oil resources. 


5. The rise of a multitude of Iranian political parties, including the strengthening and empowerment of those nasty Islamic fundamentalists that eventually seized control. 


6. The overthrow of the US puppet monarch who, by that time, had systematically imprisoned, tortured and executed his opposition behind the scenes, ultimately turning Islamic party leadership into national martyrs, making it really easy for them to step right in and take over.  Not a great choice for a puppet.  Can you say "human rights?"


7. The outpouring of refugees from Iran in the aftermath, trying to escape the same-song-second-verse torture, imprisonment and executions under the new leadership.  My husband was one of the lucky ones who made it out in time.  Things were a bit hectic for him in the middle of the blood bath, there being a revolution and all.  No time for a visa.  Declared asylum when he got to  Germany and was approved.    


8. The 1951-1952 CIA-backed coup has been acknowledged by our own government and US tax dollars transfered from the US to the Israel treasury...a matter of public record, so "frankly, I don't believe it" isn't going to cut it.  I could give you some more 4-letter words, but time is short.  As you can see, this is not exactly democratic party line I'm spouting here.  No mouthpiece on this mouth.  This is information that is not served up by the US news media outlets either.  You can hear a lot about it from news broadcasts from other countries and there is a ton of information to sift through on the net should one feel so inclined.     

This is not some angry tirade or “tude” I harbor.  Not trying to condescend or educate anyone here.  History simply is not your friend, Sam, so keep those elitist accusations on the tip of your tongue where they belong.  In any case, I was just like you, at first.  Beat my patriotic chest, fought tooth and nail, until I finally started to acknowledge my own bias and prejudice against “foreigners” and decided to look into it all.  Started reading up on the subject, listening more and talking less, checking facts, etc.  Picked up a keen interest in all flavors of foreign policy.  Changed my life for the better forever.  Made friends along the way of all sorts and persuasions, over many decades, by now, way too numerous to count.  Studied together, had lots of fun, ate dinners with them and their families, baby sat their kids, went to weddings, house warmings, baby showers and funerals, shed bucket of tears, learned respect for their customs and cultures. 

I married once to an Arab for 12 years, went overseas and lived with the family for 2 years in Madaya, a RURAL village 40 miles west of Damascus in the Bekka Valley.  Most beautiful orchards you ever laid eyes.  Too bad the skies over this particular pastoral scene were often darkened by the storm clouds of war.  That was the year Israel tried to push itself all the way to Beruit, a mere 45 miles to the west of us, decimating whole villages in the wake of that land grab (been so many, I've lost count)…but not quite as gory as their most recent offensive into Lebanon.  Israeli fighter jets (bank-rolled by good ole’ American tax dollars,) would often fly so fast and so low under the radar screen they sounded like they were getting ready to crash into the house.  This would send us all scrambling to the floor, nose to the ground and hands clenched tightly behind our heads in a hopeless attempt to somehow feel safer, where we would cower for a couple of minutes until it was over.  Kind of reminiscent of those war photos from Sadr City and Mosul when American soldiers ransacked those villages in search of insurgents, going door-to-door, breaking in with the butt of their rifles, sending civilian old men, women and children dropping like flies in the absence of all military-age male family members (out trying to protect everybody), as the GI planted his boot into the small of an Iraqi teenager’s back, shaking like a leaf.  Just how proud, safe and strong do you think that “should” make me feel? 

Later married that Iranian refugee I spoke of earlier.  Got in-laws abroad and here.  My husband has difficulty accepting the idea that he may never see his mother, father, 3 brother(s), sister(s)-in-law, nephew and neice, aunts, uncles and cousins.  We make do with weekly phone calls.  My son is a native-born citizen, with very much of a westernized hyphenated Iranian side to his identity….American-Iranian, according to him.  My sister lives in Tehran with her husband and her own 12-year-old American citizen American-Iranian/Iranian-American son.  Hope they don’t get caught up in the aftermath of the latest nuclear flap and proposed American diplomatic efforts.  You’ll forgive me if I a bit suspicious of Bush’s stunning reversal of “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” mantra.  An “American interests section?”  Indeed.  Don’t look for the Iranian madman to agree to another CIA spy dugout in the middle of his capital city any time soon.  Shades of ignored WMD inspector reports and manufactured “intelligence” (give me a break) findings.  I take little comfort in the fact that he is running out of time for another Middle East invasion/fiasco. 

Through it all, I have engaged myself with immigration law, starting back in college, trying to help different nationalities navigate the stormy waters of the LEGALIZATION process.  Furthermore, because of my husband’s political refugee status, we are well acquainted with Homeland Security (DHS) issues.  One of our friends is a DHS regional director.  He is an advocate for immigrant rights and reform, legal and illegal…a position he takes after his retirement from INS after 30 years and 5 years with DHS.  Probably knows a thing or 2.  He can’t wait for the inauguration.  Says his job will be a lot easier and kinder once McCain or Obama take office, since they both support immigration reform.  Looking forward to going to sleep with a cleaner conscience, he says. 

Anger?  Not exactly.  Passion?  You bet.  Please forgive me if I feel like I might have something of substance to bring into this debate.  I take these issues very seriously since were are talking about my families, my friends.  In my experience (not some passage out of some old dusty textbook), these are matters of life and death.  I may be a little far out in left field to suit you, but I feel I have at least earned my stripes.  I am no less American than anyone else born and raised here.  Keep in mind that I am not by myself here either.  The last 2 elections were too, too close to support that notion.     

You will be relieved to hear this.  That’s all the time I have right now.  One thing we all can see about you is you somehow feel if you get the last word, it must be the best word.  Ain’t necessarily so, but at least for the time being, you can have it your way.  Have no intention to leave the remainder of your slanderous post unanswered.  Debate is suspended from this side due to the job hunt thing, but certainly not finished by any means.  

One thing I look forward to is the (un)Cival War discussion.  Maybe you can enlighten me as to how to construe a war which produced more than half a million deaths of various sorts in 4 years was about anything except some of the same fundamental issues that divide us to this day…the economics and human rights issues that surrounded slavery then, the common thread that divides us, then and now, being the bigotry of it all.  Will follow your advice and read up on the Republican party, but before playing the Abraham Lincoln was a Republican card, better bone up on how your party platform has reversed itself on most issues since it formation in the early 1850s.  HisRepublican Party in no way resembles the GOP of today.  Confusing?  Yes.  Alas, another 4 letter word for you. 

I appreciate your parting “shot.”  Wouldn’t want to let a little thing like a hurricane sink OUR hot air balloons (pleural). now, would we?  Enjoy your last word and the sabbatical.  Gonna get swallowed up by poverty if I don’t find a job soon. 

manufactured outrage is to create the impression that O and media are against SP.  That way, as more and more damaging information is revealed with investigations by reporters in alaska, hopefully the limited-information voters will disregard the facts that are revealed.

whatsoever to inflame prejudice.  shameful, shameful behavior. 

of the True Believers, oh grand puhba. Everyone grab match.