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Yeah he's dangerous all right...

Posted By: me on 2008-11-11
In Reply to: Me either -and anyone who bothered to research - Obama would never elect this dangerous man.nm

LOL, be careful what you "research" - there might be scintilla of truth to it...

Why don't you name your "sources" showing us how 'dangerous' PRESIDENT ELECT Obama is, so we can see how 'factual' your information is?

You can certainly defend your position, right? So name the sources!


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Dangerous............ sm
"If you try to engage them, they go all freakoid and can be dangerous."

Yeah.....I have a keyboard, and I'm not afraid to use it! BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA
This is dangerous misinformation. sm

I think the public, especially those on this board who think that embryonic stem cells are merely going to be retrieved from thrown away embryos, had better do some serious research.  People need to put down the emotional button and pick up the research button here. 



Misleading Missouri
The Show-Me State’s deceptive stem-cell initiative.

By Yuval Levin


This November, voters in Missouri will be asked to consider a ballot initiative on human cloning and embryonic-stem-cell research. The initiative has been the focus of an intense (if lopsided) campaign in the state for months, with millions of dollars in ads calling for passage. But many of the most basic facts about just what the proposal says and aims to do have not fully emerged.

The Kansas City Star this week reports that the initiative’s sponsor, the Coalition for Lifesaving Cures, has spent more than $28 million on the effort. More than 97 percent of the money has come from James and Virginia Stowers, the billionaire founders of American Century mutual funds, who have also founded a research institute in Kansas City that wants to take a leading role in the stem-cell game. $28 million is a lot of money, and would have paid for a lot of stem-cell research. Why spend it on this initiative campaign instead? What exactly is it buying?

The official summary that will appear on the ballot tells voters the initiative’s first purpose is to “ensure Missouri patients have access to any therapies and cures, and allow Missouri researchers to conduct any research, permitted under federal law.” In other words, to take away from state legislators the authority to govern the practices of stem-cell scientists in the state, and to hand that authority to the federal government alone instead. Missouri could not regulate any practice that Congress has not seen fit to regulate.

An Explanation Is Due
The initiative’s advocates have not done much to explain to voters why they should cede this bit of sovereignty, or why even those who support embryo-destructive stem-cell research should think that state legislators would restrict it more than Congress would. Indeed, while the U.S. House of Representatives has voted to ban all human cloning, and the Congress each year passes restrictions on federal funding of research in which human embryos are harmed, no such bills have ever even come up for a vote in the Missouri legislature.

More peculiar still, the actual text of the initiative does not quite match the summary’s assertion that all research permitted nationally would be protected in Missouri. In fact, the initiative bans the creation of human embryos through in vitro fertilization if it is undertaken solely for research purposes, and bans the extraction of cells from embryos older than 14 days. Neither is prohibited under federal law, and the former is a fairly regular practice. Stem-cell researchers, especially in the private sector, produce and destroy embryos solely for research purposes all the time. (Here, on page 22, for instance, is an ad from the Washington Post’s Express commuter paper asking women to provide their eggs for such endeavors.)

More Radical Than the U.N.
The official summary’s next item, and by far its most deceptive, only complicates things further. It tells voters the initiative would “ban human cloning or attempted cloning.” But in fact, the ballot initiative would create a new state constitutional right to human cloning.

Human cloning, sometimes known by its technical name “somatic-cell nuclear transfer” or SCNT, involves creating a new human being that is genetically identical to an existing human being. It could be done by removing the contents of a woman’s egg cell, and filling it with the contents of an adult cell (for instance, a skin cell) taken from the body of a donor. The result would be a developing human embryo with the genetic identity of the donor of the adult cell — an embryo like any other, but with only one genetic parent rather than two. This is how Dolly the sheep was created, and many other mammals since, though no one seems to have mastered the technique in humans just yet.

Once created, this cloned human embryo would be in the same situation as any other embryo produced in the lab, and one of two things could be done with it: It could be implanted in a woman to grow to term and be born, or it could be destroyed so that its stem cells could be removed for research. SCNT therefore means either bringing a cloned child into the world, or creating human embryos solely to destroy them for science. Huge majorities of the public agree that cloned children should not be produced, and even the ballot initiative itself seems to disapprove of creating a human life solely to destroy it for research. Therefore, since creating a cloned embryo by SCNT would allow only for two unethical options, the ethical option is to prohibit the practice altogether, and avoid that impossible choice. President Bush has called for such a ban, and the House of Representatives (though not the Senate) has voted for it. Even the U.N. General Assembly last year adopted a declaration calling on member states to “prohibit all forms of human cloning.”

On their face, the Missouri initiative and the campaign supporting it imply that is what the proposed constitutional amendment would do. But further down, tucked away in its definition section, we find that when it speaks of human cloning the initiative refers only to efforts “to implant in a uterus” the embryo produced by SCNT in an attempt to initiate a pregnancy.

The act of implanting an embryo in a woman’s womb, performed with IVF embryos many times every day, is not what makes human cloning different. What is different is the act of cloning — somatic-cell nuclear transfer — by which the embryo is originally created. Cloning to produce an embryo to be developed to birth and cloning to produce an embryo to be destroyed for research are both human cloning, carried out identically. As James Battey, chair of the NIH Stem Cell Task Force, told a congressional committee in March, “The first step, the cloning step, is the same, but the intended result is different” (emphasis added). But the initiative, by redefining cloning, protects the practice while pretending to prohibit it.

Moreover, the combination of the first and second sections of the initiative would mean that the Missouri constitution would first privilege and protect the creation of cloned human embryos for research (as long as federal law did not prohibit it) and then would mandate the destruction of these embryos.

CLONING ABOVE THE LAW
And that’s not all. In what must rank as the most peculiar section of this very odd proposal, the initiative goes on to state that research using these embryos needs to abide by state and local laws, but only as long as these laws do not “prevent, restrict, obstruct, or discourage any stem cell research or stem cell therapies and cures that are permitted by the provisions of this section,” and do not even “create disincentives for any person to engage in or otherwise associate with such research or therapies and cures.”

This quite simply puts human cloning above the law in Missouri. How far would it go? Do labor laws or the fire code “restrict” cloning research? Do property taxes on the Stowers Institute “discourage” it? Surely income taxes on cloning researchers who might move to Missouri “create a disincentive” to engage in the research, and limits on political contributions by the Institute discourage politicians from associating with it. If inserted in Missouri’s constitution, this amendment would essentially permit cloning researchers in the state to flout any law they found constraining, and permit the Stowers Institute to be a law onto itself. Not a bad deal, and one that may even be worth $28 million to the Institute.

But why should the people of Missouri put up with it? The extravagantly funded campaign to get them to do so has of course avoided mentioning that the initiative creates a constitutional right to human cloning and sets those who clone above the law. It has also neglected to note that human cloning research on any serious scale would require massive numbers of eggs from massive numbers of women, and that extracting those eggs carries serious risks. It even skips any mention of the fact that embryonic stem cells are derived by destroying developing human embryos — whether cloned or otherwise. Instead, the campaign has coined the euphemism “early stem cell research” to avoid the word “embryonic,” and in one television ad tells Missourians that “Early stem cells come from a microscopic group of cells smaller than a period.” Cells from cells, and not an embryo in sight.

Reckless Hype and Overselling
Most of the campaign’s other ads have focused on “cures.” One shows a doctor saying that far from endangering women stem-cell research “could lead to cures for diseases that concern women like ovarian cancer.” Presumably the stem-cell treatment in question is bone marrow transplantation, an adult stem-cell technique widely in use for decades, and one in no way threatened by any legal barriers or related to embryonic stem cells or cloning. Another ad shows a pediatrician saying stem cells could help his patients, but offering no details. Another shows an Alzheimer’s researcher saying “stem cell research offers the promise of cures” for “so many devastating diseases like Alzheimer’s disease,” but offers no evidence to counter the near consensus in the field that this simply is not so. Many of these disingenuous ads repeat the claim that the initiative would ban human cloning, and none of the ads mention that all stem-cell research is already legal in Missouri and there are no prospects for that changing, or that the referendum would not support any new research.

Many stem-cell scientists are uneasy about this kind of reckless hype and overselling, and are trying to bring coverage of the field down to earth, where the prospects for stem-cell cures for all that ails us are not what they used to be. And many blame non-scientific motives for it all. “It is true that Alzheimer’s is not a promising candidate for stem-cell therapies,” British stem-cell scientist Stephen Minger told the London Times, “but it was not scientists who suggested it was — that was all politics in the US driven by Nancy Reagan.”

Scientists are not so blameless, as the ads in the Show-Me State show, but “politics in the US” does indeed seem to lie at the heart of the Missouri stem-cell story. Beyond putting themselves above the law in Missouri, embryonic-stem-cell research advocates see an opportunity to have a relatively red state endorse embryo-destructive research and human cloning. Unlike California’s 2004 referendum, the Missouri initiative would not direct any new funds to the research or establish any new institution. It would simply allow advocates nationwide to say “even Missouri” supports embryo-destructive research and human cloning, so surely less conservative or less pro-life states should have no objection.

The initiative is a talking point in the larger campaign for human-cloning research. And that larger campaign itself seems increasingly to be a mere political ploy for advantage, rather than the future of medicine, as scientists discover alternatives to cloning that offer more promise both ethically and scientifically. Stem-cell pioneer James Thomson put it this way in an interview last month: 


My personal bet is that so-called therapeutic cloning will not be therapeutically useful in terms of applying those cells for transplantation. It's not that they couldn't be theoretically. I think there's no reason why the procedure won't work. It's more about cost and where the technology's likely to go in the next 10 years or so. I could be wrong because again my colleagues disagree with me on this. But I believe that there ultimately will be other technologies to accomplish the same thing, that don't require a human oocyte. It's the cost of the human oocyte and the ethics of obtaining those oocytes in reasonable numbers.

 

Those “other technologies” that don’t require human eggs or embryos include new cell reprogramming techniques that could turn adult cells into embryonic stem cells without embryos (as teams at Harvard and more recently in Japan have shown), newly discovered germ-line stem cells that might possess the abilities of embryonic cells, and other emerging alternatives. They are still in development, to be sure, but most are further along in human experiments than somatic cell nuclear transfer, and they offer the promise of advancing stem-cell science without human cloning or the destruction of nascent life.

All of which should make the people of Missouri wonder just what they’re being asked to vote for and why. A vote for the state’s ballot initiative would be a vote for a constitutional right to clone, for super-legal status for stem-cell scientists and their employers, for making their state a prop in a political fight that has little to do with Missouri, and for hype and false hope for millions of patients who have been made pawns in that struggle.

A vote against the initiative, meanwhile, would not be a vote against any science, any technique, any ongoing or new research. It would be a vote against hypocrisy and deception, and a vote for keeping legislative options open as the facts change. The Show-Me State should not be duped.

 — Yuval Levin is a fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center and senior editor of the The New Atlantis magazine


O a dangerous man? He freaks me out.

So it could get worse if he is president? Yes, he is very intelligent.  He knows how to manipulate and knows exactly what to say and what people want to hear.  He now wants to "change the WORLD."  He is now trying to "kill people's expectations" of him.  Some of the things he is now saying is like we are going to have to make sacrifices.  What that is? I am afraid to find out.  I don't want America to change the way he wants it to change.  I love the USA, but the O is scary and I am afraid to the point that I was considering (if I can) moving to Canada if he is our new president. 


Delusional and extremely dangerous.

I just hope he doesn't get us all killed in the next 3 years.


Thanks very much for posting this. 


They scare me, as well, on a very dangerous level.

Religious Fanatics are FAR more dangerous
You are absolutely right. You can tell that just by reading 99.9% of the posts on this board.
Nope. You're definitely dangerous. I'm askeered of people who

"take the logical calm approach" when you're irritated "into a frenzy."


How dare you be logical and calm whilst in the midst of a frenzy?


(I'm getting the distinct feeling, however, that it wasn't YOU who was the "frenzied" one posting below.)


Sorry!  I just can't stop laughing at that one!


 


Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've said before that you're leaving, but you and your goons can't sta

yeah, yeah, yeah.....what he failed to mention...
is that the Dems are responsible for the mortgage meltdown which is responsible for the wall street meltdown. Chris Dodd, Barney Frank...totally to blame. Blocked every attemmpt by Bush Admin and yes, McCain, to regulate fannie/freddie. Dems certainly have selective memories...convenient bouts of amnesia. lol.
Oh, yeah yeah, whatever. There's plenty of satan here, that is for sure!

Yeah, yeah, everything is funny. Wont
nm
Yeah, yeah, yeah....still protesting too much. (nm)
nm
Oh yeah. It says a lot.

Yeah, you are probably right. sm
After all, everyone must be lying.   Everyone on the right, all liars.  Al Franken says so, so it must be true. You know what is wrong with you guys.  You cannot handle confrontation or anyone who doesn't agree with you at all!
Well, yeah.....nm
nm.
Yeah really.nm
x
yeah, you are sure right about that.
Almost every single post on that board is like it was written by a bunch of annoying, redneck teenage boys!!!!
Yeah.
Whatever.
Yeah? So what?

That's exactly what I said.  Scarborough has always supported Bush.  There is a difference between supporting and blindly following.  For example, you see nothing wrong with how this case was handled.  You see nothing wrong with Bush lying every time he opens his mouth.  That's blind faith.


Scarborough is an objective Republican who believes in honesty.  I realize this is a difficult concept for some CONS to understand.  Once upon a time, honesty was considered a good thing in the United States.  People who were honest were considered to have moral character and integrity.  Scarborough is one of those rare of Republicans, totally foreign to you, I'm sure.


To blindly follow (which I'm sure you're quite familiar with) means worshiping a man as if he's some kind of god, believing every single word he says, even when you see evidence to the contrary right before your eyes.   He lies every day; those who follow blindly believe him every day.  And when it becomes common knowledge that he's lied and when they can't twist and manipulate the lie out of recognition any more, then his blind followers make excuses for him, usually blaming democrats or anyone else who is handy but never blaming the liar himself.  And they justify all the lying because they have that special *connection* with God.  They can lie all they want and God just winks at them and says it's okay because their place in heaven has already been guaranteed, unlike the rest of us poor slobs out there without that special connection.


The only thing that scares me more than Bush having the same credibility as Al Qaeda is the fact that there are so many morons who blindly follow him, who just aren't smart enough to figure out that Bush was never on their side - he's only on the side of big money.  He even joked about his *base* - the *haves* and the *have nots.*


By the way, you are on the liberal board.  If you don't care for the liberal point of view, the CON board is ---->


Yeah.
Whatever.
Yeah, whatever!!! ....nm

Yeah probably, but it's only okay when you do it?
Right? The rest of us should be ashamed.
Yeah. Whatever you say.

I was responding to this:  *And know a lot PK. I know A LOT about your posting habits more than you could ever imagine.*  I was accused of doing something I simply didn't do, so that just shows me how much you people really DO know, and, yes, I can *imagine* a LOT when faced with this kind of ominous post. 


Those of your ilk have dark histories of murdering people of different beliefs (for example, personnel at abortion clinics), and the latest tactic of the Neocons is intimidation and retribution.  Just ask Valerie Plame, who used to have a career before her husband spoke the truth.


If someone said that to you on your board, you'd be accusing them of threatening to assassinate you and contacting the FBI.  Who are you KIDDING?  Typical neocon double standard and hypocrisy at work again. 


Yeah, so did LBJ.

but the point is, the far left hates Cheney as much or more than Bush, so impeach Bush, get Cheney, then what?  Impeach Cheney?  Then you get Hastert. I know the far left doesn't like him. Impeach him and get Ted Stevens.  He's a Republican, too.  (President pro tempore of the Senate).  Impeach him and get...Condi Rice...if she isn't buying shoes.  What have you gained. Absolutely nothing. Well...maybe some payback for Clinton, which is what this is all about anyway.  Why not just wait until 2008 and vote the bums out. 


Yeah...I know...sm
And I didn't agree with Pat Roberson calling for his death, and in the wake of Katrina Bush could have accepted his olive branch for fuel.

However, I think Chavez's speech was disrespectful being how the UN is hosted by the US. We can't think Dem vs Rep. He disrespected the US.
Yeah, yeah, yeah...
Two posters identifying themselves as liberals stated it was more important to investigate Bush than to concentrate on terrorism. That does not stem from anything but hatred and revenge. Fact, ma'am. No bumper sticker talk. Nancy Pelosi yelled impeachment right up until two weeks before the election and how it was first on her list when they got power. Had they not filled the seats with conservative Democrats rather than liberal ones I am pretty darn sure that would have gone forward. And that also stems from hatred of conservatism first, George Bush second, and a desire for revenge. She talks about ridding Washington of corruption on the one hand, and then supports Murtha (I will not go into his corruption) and Hastings (a Federal judge who was impeached and who she voted to impeach) for a chairmanship. She has absolutely no credibility in my eyes, and apparently the new conservative Democrats in the house don't think so either, as they did not goose step in line and vote in her choice. Good for them! Also had another liberal post that aborting a child was like removing a wart or a cancer. That is not hate, that is completely morally bankrupt. Somewhere along the line the liberal morality meter has gone wonky, and in my humble opinion it is BECAUSE of rational and analytical thought devoid of emotion, and stopping listening to that small still voice inside you, that soul that God put in you when he created you. Yes, I am emotional, because I believe it was leading to the decay of the American soul. I will fight it the best way I know how, and that is to stand for what I believe in, and kneeling to pray for this country and EVERYone in it. God bless, Lurker.
Yeah, I know.....
you would think I would stop trying. However, I keep thinking that maybe, somehow, somewhere, something might sink in....sighhh.
Yeah, it goes like that. SM

Teddy says they all communicate by e-mail or are related, so it's not surprising since they all kind of show up at one time.  It's been that way so long.  Anyhoo, we can take and they can't!


Yeah, you are right. SM
And you guys stalk people, wish them to die, and wished the president and his family burn in hell.  That's so much better.
Yeah!!!
Gave me goose bumps! His wife must be beside herself ~ Thanks for the heads up
yeah
nn
Yeah, right. We can all see just how
nm
Yeah...right. LOL. nm
nm
Oh yeah.....
Michael Moore's INfamous quotes:

"Should such an ignorant people lead the world? How did it come to this in the first place? 82 percent of us don't even have a passport! Just a handful can speak a language other than English."

He thinks you are ignorant.

"I like America to some extent." Yeah, that's patriotic.

"There's a gullible side to the American people. They can be easily misled. Religion is the best device used to mislead them."

He thinks you are gullible. Although I disagree about religion. I think political parties are the best way.

"white people scare the crap out of me."

I don't EVEN know where to go with that statement. lol.

"Clinton was a pretty good president for a Republican."

ROFL. He really is up on American politics.

"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not 'insurgents' or 'terrorists' or 'The Enemy.' They are the revolution, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow - and they will win."

'Nuff said.


Yeah!!!!
nm
Yeah I'm an MT. What does that
have to do with anything?  Have heard it all, can transcribe it all.  Palin gets on my last nerve....what's it to ya?
oh yeah? and just how are you going to do that?
nm
Oh yeah?
PFBBBLLLTTT!!!
yeah right, like her
BIL who self-admittedly tazed his own kid, and who abused his wife, etc. I applaud Sara Palin on every level including this one!
Yeah!
Laws?  We don't need no stinkin' laws. 
yeah and if...sm
they would have chosen Fox for the first interview, boy, what the outcry from the left would have been then.

They were actually quite wise to choose ABC, in my opinion. She walked into the lion's den, and came out virtually unscathed.

IMHO.
Yeah, that is what they would like you to believe...
but the last line seems to pretty much describe the democrats nowadays...a cycle of hatred and intolerance.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.......
.
yeah, right
I remember the last 2 elections when Barbra Streisand and Rose McDonnell said if Bush won they were leaving the country. They're both still here (darn it). Even with all the problems, you are going to be hard pressed to find anything better.
Yeah, sure you do, right
x
yeah, I do, with you, lol!
blah!!
Yeah, but
At least Pelosi seems somewhat intelligent. Watching Palin talk, it is hard to believe she graduated college or even high school some days.
Yeah, unfortunately O will probably be the next
nm
oh yeah?
2 - 4 - 6 - 8.. who do you appreciate???

MCCAIN MCCAIN MCCAAAAAIIINNNN!!!

NO OBAMA
yeah, so what?

Why does BOND (Jessie Lee Peterson) get so little attention?  Look what the Dems did to Michael Steele (who, incidentally, is just one hot man) simply for being in the "wrong" party?  And Alan Keyes...another pariah just because they're conservative.


See a pattern here?


 


Yeah okay
please don't read them. I would hate to think I made someone go off the deep end by asking them a stinkin question.