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Wow. In the time it took me to post, market lost another

Posted By: 135 points. Make that 735 give or take....sm on 2008-10-15
In Reply to: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing - over and over and expecting....sm

with no end in sight, wiping out just about all those gains on Monday. Bush and clones are not exactly the best choice of spokesmen when trying to restore confidence in the economy. Change is in the air. Can you feel it?


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I lost respect for the replican party a long time ago
When they ended up putting McCain in there that did it for me. I've lost all respect for both parties. Guess that's why I'm more into the Constitution party/Independent (depending on their viewpoints).

I can take an insult from people, and I can dish them out too, but sometimes I get just a little irrated.

I wish all parties would go away and people would vote on issues because of the issues and not because of which party suggested them. I wish people would accept blame when they are at fault and not blame it all on the other parties (both sides).

But one thing I am glad for is that if Obama is elected (in January after we hear how the electoral college voted), if he does become our next president then when he does give speeches he will have a nice strong voice and will not be saying "my friends" every 5 minutes.

Think I will take another sabatical from this board for awhile and focus on other things and get my mind off this nonsense.
I only lost $1000 so far-Hubby lost $2000 in a week (sm)

so, I called his financial advisor yesterday and told him to put hubby in a "safe" plan. It's now in a money market fund that is part of his IRA.


I have no choice. I have to stay where I am. I have no "safe" available. Neither of us will be able to retire on what is now in our 401Ks and you're not the only one. We couldn't buy a car with Both our 401Ks, let alone live on it.


We are late starters for retirement  not until our late 40s funds (most of our employers did not offer pensions). We are now of the first retirement tier and although we own our home outright, if we live until we are 90, there is no way we can live off retirement 401Ks or SS.


My husband's father told him back in the 50s that we would experience something like what is happening today and stated it would be worse than the ཙ crash. It is sure starting to look that way, but we will survive some way, I hope.


We need to pray for the people on SS now that cannot survive. I, for one, would love to help them, but can't help ourselves at this moment.


 


Wow - you really got me that time. (not really sure WTH your post means but anyway) (sm)
I'm leaving, so if you have more to say to me, you'll be talking to yourself, and you're already weird enough, but if that's what you wanna do, knock yourself out.
Thank you for taking the time to post this!! :-)
awesome post
Thanks for taking the time to post
Sorry, forgot to add that. Have a good afternoon.
Just a hint. Next time respond to a post,

read it first. 


This isn't about the ACLU, or an agency LIKE the ACLU.


I think you would be hard pressed to find a liberal who agrees with NAMBLA or any organization like them that is in favor of sexual exploitation of children.  I don't think prison is even good enough for them.  I think they should get the death penalty.


Maybe if you would have actually taken the time to READ the post, you would see it has nothing to do with your response.


That's the second time you addressed something I didn't post. sm
I thought the Chickenhawk article was brilliant though.  I wish I had posted it.
Re: "Closing Time" - Was cut off in prior post; please see this one.

This didn't come through very well in my other post.  I'm hoping it's better in this one.  Sorry. 


Closing Time


Jim Kirwan
12-10-8








Since Reagan we've been trying to make "Trickle-Down economics" work: For those to whom promises were made, Trickle- Down has been, not just a failure but it has been the major vehicle responsible for the most massive redistribution of wealth, from the population that has worked toward something, to those that wanted everything. Never has there been such a near total transfer of wealth in the history of the planet. This criminal-conspiracy has done what it was created to do ­ and it must be terminated with extreme prejudice, immediately, if we are to survive.


When 'Trickle-Down' was the political-priority of the day, the high-point in prosperity was to become a 'Millionaire.' Forbes magazine tracked those lucky few very carefully. Today Forbes 500 no longer bothers with 'millionaires' because there are just far too many of them-they have become inconsequential. Thanks to "Trickle-Down economics today the heavy-hitters financially are 'Billionaires' and above: which is all you need to know about how well this hostile-takeover of the American economy has worked.


The problem that this transfer of wealth has created has resulted in the Federalization-of-Privatization: As a result we are all facing another huge round of trickle-down economics, but this time it's being cloaked in a series of stealth-protected measures. These new tactics are commonly called BAILOUT or RESCUE packages, and nothing about their origins or their purposes has been made clear to those of us that will be forced to pay tens of trillions for our own destruction.


What's happening is this: First they used compromised laws to squash diversity and opinion within the entire field of communications, under Clinton and Powell's kid that ran the FCC. Together, competition was eliminated and monstrous empires were created that absorbed their competition outright. Once this happened, the entire edifice for total information management was in-place, using household names to lie to the public every minute of every day, whether on television or in print-with very few exceptions. With that completed effort it was easy to move directly onto the openly fascist path to WAR on a variety of fronts, supported and applauded by the very organs that were supposed to question whatever government does, on behalf of the people, as part of their constitutionally protected-jobs as so-called journalists. With the constitution gone, and the only allegiance worthy of that name having become the private for-profit motives that greed and arrogance breeds; in the sewers of those ruined lives where these so-called leaders "live," the current outcome is all that we should have ever expected from these new-age barbarians. (1)


We're still in the Twilight Zone; where Obama is just another man waiting to start a job, except that he seemingly can't wait to begin so he formulates their plans and then rushes to the nearest podium to expound upon the glories of what these programs (or pogroms) are pointedly designed to do; for them and 'to' us. And the sheep wait patiently to board the trains that will take them to the slaughterhouse.


The larger picture has or course remained hidden from the general public. What continues to go unnoticed is the number of profligate cities and towns, not to mention states that will have to be bailed out by the feds. Once this begins to happen, 'the rights' of states will disappear completely along with any independence from the federal-government. Remember the formula upon which bailouts are based: The crucial money provided is conditioned upon a federal "ownership stake" in everything that needs the money, and when this is applied to the states then all they have left to trade with is their broken-economies and their people who shall both become the property of the federal government that is today a private-corporation that serves only the privately-owned central banks and by extension the multi-national corporations. This is about to happen now to several states, including California; the sixth largest economy in the world. (2)


'BTW the "corporation" mentioned above has been bankrupt since 1933, and the result of that bankruptcy is that the USA went into receivership to the privately-owned Federal Reserve. The Dictator was correct when he said: "The constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper," he was actually telling the truth. It was probably the only truthful statement he ever made in nearly eight years.


The owners have simply allowed us to believe we have a constitution. Every law, code and statute world wide is based on the Uniform Commercial Code and has been in place since 1950. Of course no one in a position of power ever bothered to mention this to us did they? One must understand the UCC to understand how and why so many have gotten away with so much: And now they are upping the ante, to take it all.'


This explains why every courtroom and every government building has flags hanging that really are not American flags even though they appear to be. Each of them has gold/yellow fringe around them. They give us smoke and mirrors that mask what they created, which allows them to continue to say 'we have a constitution and a democracy.' Of course America was created to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic. The rights of the few and the many, can only be protected under a Republic, while under a democracy, the majority rules-absolutely.


There are however a few places that are still holding out against the one-world-order and the New Barbarians. Among these are Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, possibly Iran and certainly Greece.


"Socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the conservative government could no longer defend the public from rioters.


The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.


'The government cannot handle this crisis and has lost the trust of the Greek people,' Papandreou said. 'The best thing it can do is resign and let the people find a solution ... we will protect the public.'" (3)


If America is to survive then we must stop this wholesale giveaway of everything that was once part of this society. The relationship between profits and earnings must be freed from the stranglehold that management has created in order to siphon off all the profits and wreck the companies they work for. In addition, the idea that government can function in any capacity as a major stakeholder in any form of private enterprise beggars the imagination far beyond any real possibility for saving anything; except the criminals and their enterprises that created this "crisis" in the first place. The 'economy' must be based on a bottom-up profit motive, based on the real wages of those that create the wealth for those at the top - and not upon the insanity that it is now! People must come first, and the corporations must be controlled at every level by the public!


There is no longer anything like responsibility anywhere in government or the private sector to anything except what can continue to be stolen, either by flawed and fraudulent bailouts, or through the strong-arm tactics that are currently acting "under- cover of law" and that are neither legal nor functional. Obama in this venue is neither a savior, nor a friend to the people that supposedly 'elected' him-he is just the instrument of the new global-government engine designed to finish the job and to close down this nation, once and for all! Americans need to watch what happens in Greece and follow their example, if there is to be an America to fight over in the future.


In the meanwhile, here is some of what's happened here already.


"With the focus on privatization, public-private partnerships, (dismantling local control); anyone with any common sense about them can see that; incrementally the power of the people is being given over to corporate control through various venues. Once upon a time we were subjects, then citizens, and now consumers. Everything is for sale. TV 'programming' is set up to entice "consumers" through the 3000 daily ads to buy, buy, buy! Utilities-waste- nursing homes, and even the people's water (once in local control) is open to the highest bidder or those with the most influence. In "public private partnerships or privatization" (despite the lofty high pitch sales rhetoric) means only one thing, a plundering of the people's money. Profits take precedence over any and all health or environmental concerns. It's pigs at the trough time, locally- state wise and nationally. This is not just happening in one or two isolated places but across the nation. Because we are narrowly focused (many times only one newspaper) parochially; we have little to no idea of the larger picture and what is being set in place.


As I read of various happenings across the nation; I am struck with the usage of terms and language being introduced into the public arena; with no explanation as to their meaning (if any). I asked a state politician a few years back what this terminology we're hearing lately of, "regional or regionalization" meant? He brushed the whole thing aside as inconsequential and told me that is was of no importance. Obviously, for me, that was an unsatisfactory answer. Most especially, since on the local level, I could see that it meant a great deal. It appeared to me, that ever so insidiously, local control was gradually being usurped by "regional" control of unelected officials. Consultants (strangers) were replacing local people in places of city government (at lucrative salaries). The sense of community (calling city hall etc.) was being replaced by various business entities, having little to no attachment to the heartbeat of the people. How could they, being strangers, with no sense of native pride or concern? Words like "regional, stake holder, empowerment zones, enterprise committees, visioning councils, smart growth, sustainable development etc;" had replaced understandable language! I didn't imagine that the usage of these terms across the nation (if you look) meant "nothing"." (4)


It's 'Closing Time' America, because unless you begin to do more than just watch, this place won't even be a footnote to the ruin that is planned for these people and this place that once held so much promise for everyone.


kirwanstudios@sbcglobal.net



Next time, please try to stay on post task.
1st paragraph. I agree. That's why O's and B's supporters are voting for them. Not more government. Better government...smarter government…and one with vision for a different America than what you cons are peddling. You are straying from the subject again. Pay attention. The discussion is about O and JM how JM's plan differs from Bush's plan. On the voting record, last time I checked only O and JM are running for president and those are the voting records we are inspecting now. It is the 90+% of MC'CAIN'S votes in support of Bush's initiatives that we now showcase. Do not complicate the plan comparisons with a whole bunch of smoke and mirrors peripheral unknowns. Candidates. Got it?

Have it your way. Bush adopted O's exit strategy first and JM followed his lead who followed O's lead. He did not start talking exit at all until the Bush flip-flop(s) (i.e., we dont negotiate with terrorists but a US interests section in Iran might work) began getting press during the primary campaigns. I have not had time to examine the context from which you lifted O's surge statement from the other O's Fox interview which you continually and confidently predicted he was too scared to do. Once I do that, I will comment further on the surge statement. Don't know how to tell you this, but the surge was not the greatest national security/foreign policy decision, although it is plain to see that the cons often get military strategies pretty mixed up with foreign policy. Again, ask the Iraqis how successful our missions have been at slaughtering more than 100,000 of their family members. Another bubble to burst here. There are many among us who do not feel that the war has made our nation safer from terrorists. So, in fact, we are not done with this subject, no matter how quickly you would like to dismiss it. Obama was simply trying to avoid MORE quagmire and advance the withdrawal plan that is not only promoted by him, but now suddently promoted by Bush and JM in tow. Some call it vision, others call it judgment.

Did not ask about JMs speeching. Asked about the plan. What is it, if he laid it out so plainly? Must have missed all that between the fear/military references last night. BTW, as I told you in the past post, govt transparency is a democratic initiative that was launched back in the early 90s during the Clinton administration, squashed during the undercover Bush administration and is now clearly articulated in O's technology section under issues.

Cons cannot speak for democrats as to how they can or cannot define pork barrel spending. I know very well what it is. I do find your example of moveon.org rather peculiar in this context. When was the last time they benefited from pork barrel legislation? Please do not reply with a regurgitation of Fox and O'Reilly campaign to demonize the group. You want to talk PACs, fine, but put them in the correct context and tread very lightly for your own sake.

The class warfare is waged by pubs against dem constituents, so yes, I am familiar with that subject and plan to continue to advocate and support measures that will level that playing field. I have a lot of company in that regard. TBone advocates drilling once or twice inside the context of a whole arsenal of other energy initiatives that you discount by omission. He does not, however, try to sell the public on the notion that this will bring prices down anytime in the first of second terms of the upcoming administrations like JM and company would have us believe. On the American imperialist delusions of grandeur, if you have to ask, no soup for you. Would be a waste of time, but this concept is not lost on the better versed in Bush/Cheney NeoCon visions which JM is trying to deny and embrace at the same time. Good luck with that one.

I guess we better all rememer your post, the next time
Double standard? Sheesh.
Read the post I made above. This time it was...
Democrat greed or ignorance...I don't know which...but either way they are responsible.
time ojut, SS, My post was directed to Get Smart/sm
I agree with your comment about JM's goose egg and everything else you have posted today.
I had that happen one time too...a post turning up missing. sm
And all I did was say I felt other posters were being too harsh. That was it. So I emailed the moderators and the reply I got was that if somebody complains about a post, then all the replies associated with that post are also deleted along with the offending post.

I hope this helps shed light on your missing post.
Excellent post - best I've seen in a long time
Thanks for posting. I really wish more people would think like this. I just want someone qualified who will do what is best for the people of the country. It's just not happening and hasn't been for some time. Forget the name calling and who started it. All I know is it's broken and needs to be fixed and this is an excellent way to fix it.
Does anybody else get error messages half the time they try to post on this board. ?
.
Just today....and theboard is dominated by people piling on me every time I post.
What you don't like is anyone who disagrees with you. Sounds a whole lot more like Nazism than American democracy. But I don't suppose a socialist party would recognize that.
I agree with poster below. Don't even waste your time reading the post. - Sarcastic and utter no
Oh brother - get real.
huh, what does that have to do with the market
going down while the O's been in office.

Your attempt at a joke is lame.
stock market
Everybody was playing on the fear factor. Panic sets in and everybody starts selling. According to what I have heard, there are now great stock buys and that is what they are seeing.

Everybody gets so wrapped up in this "sky is falling" mentality and that is what the government hopes.

All their little nay sayers trying to scare the sense out of everybody but what they are hearing from their constiuents say do NOT say yes to the bill. The people do not believe that everything is going to h@ll in a hand basket if they vote NO to the bill.

I'm sure a lot more votes would have been yes yesterday if it had not been for their constituents faxing, calling, and e-mailing telling them they oppose such bailout.
I think a lot of people will do that and the market will
.
Who knows, funny how the market went

out of control when the race was within a few points, which only helps the dems out. The market can easily be manipulated by anyone with money (the Warren Buffets and George Soros' of the world) not to mention other countries.


My take on the whole election though is white guilt is going to push O into office. This is an historic election, people get caught up in the frenzy and emotion of it all, want to be a part of history in some small way, and voting for O seems not only politically correct (did you know you're a racist if you don't vote for him?) but eases a little of the white guilt some people have (another touchy-feely, PC thing to have). A man who has not had to answer tough questions, has little to no experience, has associations with radical tendencies, flip flops on most issues and is willing to wave the white flag is most likely going to be our next president. My only questoin is, what are Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann and all the other lefties going to talk about for the next 4 years? I have a feeling the real truth about O is going to come out in the coming years.


Well here we go. Stock market -411.30 plus

Barney Fife writing proposal now to bail out the automakers with $25B stipulating GOVERNMENT OWNERSHIP.


The government is backing away from buying troubled mortgages and now are going to put it in an investment program taking capital. The facts changed.  His approach is to give banks enough cash to keep homes on the books and keep cash in the banks.


They will not bail out those people who shouldn't have taken out the loans in the first place.


American Express is jumping on the bailout wagon requesting $3.5B.


They really opened a can of worms here.


So the stock market's down.... sm
How bad is it?  According to the article linked below...........

With Thursday’s rout, $8.3 trillion in stock market wealth has been erased in the last 13 months.

For more info......  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/21/business/21markets.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
Thank goodness we got out of the market
in September. Heard Jim Cramer at that time say the economy was going to tank soon; heeded the advice and pulled out that day. O is certainly bringing hope and change to the masses, isn't he? You better hope you have some money to retire on and change your retirement plan!
So what!!!! Where were you when the stock market went down
Haven't you learned your lesson yet. You only comment on a good day and remain silent with the rest of the crats on a bad day.

How many people on this board have been telling you to quit commenting every time the market hiccups. But you feel this need to only comment when it goes up.

Your post is not worth the time reading.
The right has the market cornered on disrespect ...sm
to soldier's families. Hands down they win that award.

Especially if the family has anything contrary to say about this administration. Yeah, and we are the ones who don't support the soldiers.
Hm-m-m. Anybody notice the stock market is up, and

financial gained 16% today. That's curious. Can someone explain why?


I just think it's because the stocks were so low yesterday that it was a buyer's market.


 


 


There are tons of homes on the market.
More homes for sale would bring the price down. The house would be appraised at a reasonable value. Only the sincere folks should be eligible.

Many were owned by private investors who bit off more than they can chew, trying to get rich fast.

My home went up in value by 120,000 from what I paid for it, to settle at $250,000. The guy across the street sold his for that and ours are identical. Now, it is back down to about 150,000. But that is cool cuz I got it for 80,000 (fixer upper). This is calif which means a lot.

I did try to refi twice - Central Valley Mtg offered me nothing but an ARM. He wanted me to take 20,000 of equity out (He said I needed a vacation). I turned it down. (I'm a Suze Ormon fan). He actually threw his pen across the desk when I told him.

Second time, the mtg broker offered me tiered payments, just principal first year, then a low interest rate the next and over 5 years, the interest rate sours. He wanted me to take 20 grand more out to invest in the stock market (lol). Then, refi before the huge interest rates kick in. I walked away on that. He did not even offer a fixed rate. When I requested it, he made it sound like it was out of the question.

Finally, went to WAMU (which is now JP Morgan...) and they refi'ed me with a fixed rate.

Predatory lending at its best.
The stock market went from +250 to -150 after the vote. nm
.
Privatize SS, as in play the market with SS tax $.
and see what you come up with.
How low can she go? No lower with frozen market.
can they stay frozen?  Russian markets closed until Tuesday.  What does it mean with futures are "bottomed out?"  What happens when they do open?  Boy oh boy.  What's up with that?
and here I thought conservatives had the market on
x
Have you noticed how the stock market goes up
or how the media has been fueling that engine by pushing and pushing and obsessing over the cabinet appointments in search of dirt to dig up on them?

Obama has been trying to give voters a little reassurance, but I supposed lots of folks will find something wrong with that too.
Let the free market work.
x
The stock market will never, ever, see another dime of

Just because the market is up today doesn't mean

everything is hunky-dorrey. Let's not get over enthusiastic here. The market has been down more than up lately. I would rather wait 6 months to see what's happening before I touch that subject.


As for O laughing in the 60 minutes interview, it doesn't bother me that much. It could be a way for him letting off steam. I, myself, when stressed out (as in federal jury duty), was so relieved the trial was over, I burst out laughing after we left the courtroom. This could be his way of relieving stress.


There's just too much going on in this government that turns me off especially with the bailouts and the so-called stimulus package, and I'm not too happy right now. I don't like the thought that every taxpayer, including my grandchildren or great-childen should I have any, are in debt to the government to the tune of ???, (all different figures thrown around on that).


As for posting, I only post when I have something to say. The news is the same old, same old, nothing interesting or new, so why post garbage like some on this board do. Right now, nothing on the news is piquing my interest.


One question I have.....how can O NOT accept the resignation of someone in his cabinet? That one has me stumped.  Anyone has the right to resign from a job. Since when can you not quit a job? You want to answer that one?


I think this board has the market cornered on trolls. NM

You hold the corner market on derogatory
nm
Any word about money market accounts?

Bush is NOT in charge of the stock market

Wall Street,. Nancy Pelosi, Barney Fife, and the others are making it worse with all their stupid ideas.


They WANT this to happen and give more stimulus checks to people so the people will think they are the greatest since apple pie. 


I don't see any of them trying to figure out what to do that will help us except throw money away to the groups that are keeping the money to pay their bonuses and take trips.


who cares about the stock market anymore? it's
my stock-based 401K is all but gone, and even if i had the money next year, or ever, not a cent of it will ever go back into the stock market's house of cards. so i personally dont give a rip what happens to it from here on out.
Coincidence - people are manipulating the market
DH has been working in the stock market for close to 23 years now. He knows how it is manipulated. I used the same argument to him that whenever Obama appears on TV it goes up. He told me it has nothing to do with that (even though he supported him). He said remember back to the campaign and whenever John McCain was ahead a little in the polls or there was good coverage of him (whetever little there was) the stock market went up and when Obama was ahead in the polls or news the stock market went down. He has two computers. One he watches the market and the other computer he tracks the news all over the world, so he sees what affects and doesn't affect the market. He told me that it's just a coincidence with Obama in the news and the market on the rise because that is the way the media is making it look. He said there are literally thousands and thousands of bankers, investors etc (including overseas investors) that are pourind and dumping millions of dollars on different things to manipulate the market and that's what causes the ups and downs (of course DH takes 3 hours to explain this all to me), but that is it in a nutshell. He said just coincidence. - Darn!
And the stock market LOVES it while Boy Wonder flits around!
//
Market is often disconnected from the economy. Means
Sorry, but you're only exhibiting your ignorance of the stock market.
It would just create a huge black market, and

Scary commentary on Market Ticker today. sm
Looks like we have a rough ride coming. I sure hope it is not the way this guy is calling it. A lot of people are not prepared.

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/
There is still a problem with the economy no matter what the market has done today.
nm
Guess that 1-day stock market rally didn't exactly
x
Obama has nothing to do with market... BUSH TANKED OUR COUNTRY nm
nm
Housing market on upswing - good news!



by: Lucia Mutikani  |  Visit article original @ Reuters


photo
US housing starts rose sharply in February, providing some good news for the struggling housing industry. (Photo: AP)



    Washington - New U.S. housing starts and permits unexpectedly rebounded in February, according to data on Tuesday that provided a rare dose of good news for the recession-hit economy and fractured housing market.


    The Commerce Department said housing starts jumped 22.2 percent to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 583,000 units from 477,000 units in January. That was the biggest percentage rise since January 1990 and also marked the first increase since last April.


    "That is an encouraging sign for the U.S. economy. It is good signal of what is to come. With the rally in equities we hopefully have seen a bottom for the economy here," said Matt Esteve, foreign exchange trader at Tempus Consulting in Washington.


    U.S. stocks have been on the rise over the last several days and the major indexes opened flat on Tuesday. U.S. government bond prices trimmed gains after the data and the U.S. dollar fell against the euro as risk aversion eased.


Stock Market diving since Obama spoke today.
nm