Why such a huge deal made about the auto LOAN
Posted By: when they gave BAILOUTS to others?nm on 2008-12-10
In Reply to: Big 3 talks continue....... sm - m
nm
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Well I really didn't think it was a huge deal
and you are the only person who freaked out about it. Give it a rest!
gt you just made a huge mistake. sm
You have no idea what my religion is. I would never make an assumption like this. This one statement of your's and the other person who called me a Xtian (too darn lazy to type out Christian) reveals the true inner workings of the leftist mine. If you are not with me, you are against me. That's your motto and no one could possibly be as well-informed as you. Why, if I were to take some of your bizzare sayings, i.e., burning in hell and such, I might think you are a satanist. Are you? Can't prove it by me. Amazing.
Was a deal made??? probably. sm
And no matter what deal was made or how or by who, bottom line is that the American people are going to get the brown end of the stick....AGAIN.
Big deal.........he made a joke out of Biden's proclivities....
At least he has quick wit and doesn't embarass our country with some of the STUPID crap that came out of Ws mouth.
Huge, HUGE difference.
I'd be saving a lot of money. 
Big 3 loan
I promise to absorb all opinions without comment. I'm willing to learn.
How do you all feel about this topic now?
Most importantly, please explain why you feel one way or the other.
We must LOAN them the
money. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. We are circling the drain in this nation and it will take some massive, painful steps to correct the situation. I am totally against the honchos making that ridiculous amt of money. that can be addressed secondarily - get the nation back on its feet and then reform. I will not support destroying the middle class by unemployment, etc, just because I resent those at the top.
We need to loan them a contigent of our....
far left folks. Introduce a little socialism and entitlements out the kazoo to our neighbors in the south...then I bet Mexico would be building fences to keep the illegals from coming BACK. Sigh. Hellooo...why do people think they COME here??? lol. Ridiculous. They aren't interested in becoming citizens, those who CHOOSE to remain illegal...they want social security never having paid in a DIME, they want free health care, a job with no taxes taken, to live on OUR dime and to some folks, I guess that is just A-OK. Go figure. Why don't THEY feed them then? Why can't we put signs at the border directing them to these folks' houses? Sigh.
Just take out a student loan.
If you're lucky you'll be dead before you have to pay it off. Apparently nobody else is paying theirs back...
Didn't Michelle Obama say they were still (in their 40s) paying on theirs? Got that mansion in Illinois, but can't pay back their student loans? Wasn't this in a speech she gave in Zanesville, OH when she told people to forego college and get into the 'service sector' because the Obamas were still paying off student loans? Now her husband says we need a degree in order to work in the US? Wow! What must pillow-talk be like in that bedroom?
Yeah, GIVE AIG whatever, but loan the big 3
nm
Didn't they mention something about a loan
I was watching Bill O'Reilly with my husband last night, and I thought they mentioned giving them a loan that has to be paid back rather than a bailout, or is that the same thing?
They'll just take out another loan from China to pay for it
they should be ashamed. And Obama can't be blamed for this one.
I see both sides, but this is technically a LOAN
nm
Hillary is broke, had to loan herself 5 million.sm
LOL. Maybe she will use her money and Bill's speaking engagement fees to pay for our new Universal Healthcare Program.
Clinton loaned her campaign $5 million
Senator Hillary Clinton confirmed at a press conference in Virginia this afternoon that she'd loaned her campaign $5 million, and said, "The results last night proved the wisdom of my investment.."
Spokesman Howard Wolfson emailed with the news minutes earlier:
Late last month Senator Clinton loaned her campaign $5 million.The loan illustrates Sen. Clinton’s commitment to this effort and to ensuring that our campaign has the resources it needs to compete and win across this nation. We have had one of our best fundraising efforts ever on the web today and our Super Tuesday victories will only help in bringing more support for her candidacy.
As I reported earlier, she's drawing on a pool of personal wealth estimated to be as much as $41 million, as well as a reported payout to Bill Clinton of $20 million from the Los Angeles billionaire manager Ron Burkle.
Clinton told reporters that her fundraising was healthy, but that "my opponent was able to raise more money, and we intended to be competitive, and we were."
Clinton also emailed supporters today with an ambitious online fundraising goal: to, over the course of three days, "raise $3 million to fund our history-making campaign."
No, not at all. But, leaves the bank with no money to loan.
dd
Next auto
Why pay those pesky premiums now when we're young and healthy. And, heck, I'm a good driver. In any case, I'll get a policy once I have an accident.
And my family can get life insurance on me once I'm gone! Pay a premium or two and collect! GOOD DEAL!
I support the plan to LOAN the money to the mortage firms in crisis.
At 2% interest.
Why should they be GIVEN a huge wad of cash to bail them out. If you or I were in desperate straits, our only option would be a loan, not a gimmee. Either way, Congress is going to have to give them the money. But I think we should expect a pay-back plan to be set forth BEFORE they get the dough, and not just give them a blank check for 700 billion.
And it cracks me up how the auto co's. are now
trying to sell the gas-guzzlers by offering 3 years of subsidized gas (@ $2.99/gal.) for those vehicles. So what are people supposed to do with those vehicles, once the 3 years is up, and the price of gas is then $8/gallon?
Small minds come up with even smaller solutions to the US's problems.
For every auto job loss
that seven other people in this country are affected. Think about it: Bailing out the big 3 IS bailing out the American taxpayer.
But you see which auto workers are
handouts, and the workers are not complaining about their jobs. I am talking about the ones mentioned recently in the news here in the Southeastern US. Those workers are making(including all their benefits) around $35 an hour. The unionized big 3 workers making $70+ an hour for the same work. Is that contract worth that much?
Auto bail out s/m
Read the following report. 8-10% of total cost doesn't seem like a huge percentage for labor costs. Maybe they can't afford the big salaries and bonuses for the top dogs? About time the wealth started being redistributed. Funny I haven't heard any outrage over the outrageous salaries the top dogs in these automobile business are paid. Just whining about how much the UAW workers are paid. It's about time the working class started standing up for the working class!!!!!
Let 'em all go bankrupt. I have no doubt the idjits in Washington are way more concerned about job losses in "developing countries" than those of American citizens.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081115/ap_on_bi_ge/auto_bailout_gettelfinger
Auto industry
I feel the same way I felt about the bank bail-outs. I would say no bail-outs for ANY business. I think it borders on extortion. First the banks need a bail-out, then it's the auto companies, then AmX reorganizes so they become a holding company so THEY an qualify for some of that free money. Latest I read the newspapers are to be next in line. Where does it all end?
My reason for my no bail-out opinion is, what did it accomplish for the banking industry? Nothing if we are to believe there is a credit crisis. I noticed this evening one of the local banks was advertising that they still have money available for loans. Why is it that it's the big guys that get into trouble? Let 'em suffer. Bail-outs are going to do nothing for working middle class people.
As I said in an earlier post where do you think new automobiles will fit in consumers priority list when they are trying just to put food on the table and a roof over their heads? Pretty far down I'd say. There are new layoffs announced every day, many have nothing whatsoever to do with the automotive industry.
So that is why I say NO BAIL-OUTS.
One more thing...UAW role in the automobile woes. The public has been dreadfully misled. Most seem to think the workers make some $70 an hour when in truth they make in the neighborhood of $27.00 an hour. Not a word have I heard objecting to the executives who are paid some $6000 PLUS per hour and all kinds of perks like private jets, etc. Wouldn't one think this would have a whole lot to do with their finances? The one thing I think the union should concede is the job bank where they are paid 95%, I think it is, of their wages when they are laid off. The rest of the workforce (and my husband spent his life working as a Teamster) should have to suffer through unemployment just like the majority of other employees. I do think that employer provided benefits such as the unions have should be available to all workers. It most surely comes in handy at retirement. I think everyone should have an opportunity to retire in their older years and Social Security sure doesn't covere living expenses. I wonder if there are any MTs who have retirement benefits? Probably not. Most seem now-a-days hard pressed to even make a living.
I have some ideas about auto bailout
Let the oil companies bail them out since they directly benefited from some of the bad management decisions.
Don't bail out the companies. Give the money to the workers for re-education, etc., while the auto companies restructure.
My first suggestion was a little cynical, but I'm not sure why the second hasn't occurred to anyone. ...
For those who support the auto bailout........ sm
please answer me this.
If the Big 3 are truly in the dire financial straites they claim to be, surely this did not come on overnight. Surely they did not wake up one morning a couple of weeks ago and say "wow, we have a problem. Let's go get help from Washington." GM has already received help from the government before and it didn't seem to keep them solvent. With that line of thinking, what makes those of you who support the bailout think that they will manage whatever funds (it's up to $34K and possibly growing) they receive wisely and will not allow this to happen again?
And if we did bail out the auto industry......sm
how much is that going to cost us and where is the money going to come from?
I realize this country's economy is in the toilet at this point and people are hurting everywhere, but my question is, like I said above, where is the money going to come from (I don't believe tax increases on the wealthy are going to cover the tab) and what is going to happen when "they" call in the loans?
Auto Bailout is on C-Span. If you
want to watch it tonight, it will be on at 8 p.m. In the meantime, the plans of GM and Ford are online.
I feel sorry for the Chryler guy. He seems to be the most honest and wants the least amount of money. Sen. Corker - TN told him right out he doubts Chrysler is going to make it even with the money and they should just be bought out by someone and leave the company go.
He was also tough on the UAW Gettlefinger (or whatever his name is). I don't blame him there. The guy was squirming but he kept talking about all the concessions hurting the workers; i.e., not willing to make concessions.
Hope the link works.
Auto industry bailout...(sm)
I happen to think that the auto industry does need a bailout. No, I don't agree with keeping the current management, and I do believe in making stipulations for how that money is spent. I know most of you will disagree with that, but here's what I'm seeing in TN.
Congressman Zach Wamp (R) from TN was on the tube last night talkiing about how he does not want to do the bailout. If that's his opinion that fine ----- However, lets look at his reason. TN has been bidding for a new Volkswagon plant which has recently come to fruition---right here in my home town by the way. He has been pushing for this for years. This is obviously a good thing for people in TN because of the jobs it would create. What I find ironic though is that he would let American companies go down the tubes and yet support a foreign auto maker. My honest opinion about guys like this, is that they want the job creation, regardless of where the real money is going (overseas) and they would like to do this in such a manner so as to cut out unions.
ARRRGGGGHHHH!!!! 
unemployed auto workers' pay
per their contract, if unemployed they receive FULL pay. The loss would be benefits, but they get full pay for not working if they are laid off. That should give them time for re-education.
and came in with a huge surplus!
Huge mistake
I have been banned from this board a long time, and finally they let me back in. There is a post from this Nan person, a cartoon justifying it as filbustering T. Kennedy; when in essence it makes a mockery out of thousands of Americans, and even more Iraq's lives lost. I did go on the wrong board, I did not intend to, honestly. I have not been on this board for more than 4 months until last night; and I can understand the moderator's decision to change it; but I really did not know. Who is this Nan person? She must be a moderator because if you challenge her with the truth one iota, your posts are deleted. Again, the moderators have allowed me to get away with a lot. I do understand their decision to split it into conservatives and liberals; and I have no excuse, I have had an extremly stressful week, went on there to express my opinion and my posts were deleted, I simply went on the wrong board and once again was called a troll. Anyone who disagrees with this Nan person is accused of being a troll.
It was a huge failing. sm
And you are right, genocide has occured through many presidencies. It occurred in Iraq to the tune of Millions. But no one talks about that. So which genocide do we choose? Are some politically correct and some not? Just wondering.
Another huge concern........
Where is all the money coming from being donated to Obama's campaign. They are using fake names. Why? Now, most common sense folks will know why if we don't want to deceive ourselves. No doubt Muslim organizations, corrupt groups, terrorists related groups.....you name it. See how well that never gets reported on most of your news channels. FOX has tried and is bringing it up again but try to get others, with the exception of Lou Dobbs, who will call a spade a spade....and please don't get racial with me.....you know what I mean.
A huge list.....
of wars in the name of God just came to mind....Hmmmm.
these are huge churches
As you may remember, I am a Jew, but these Christian Churches listed are pretty large denominations:
UMC - 12 million worldwide members, 8 million in the U.S.
PC-USA - 2.2 million
Episcopalian - 2.2 million
American Baptist - 1.4 million
UCC - 1.2
The above are just some of the member churches. Are all of these denominations full of false prophets or reading a different bible?
I'm not trying to be difficult, I just find it very interesting
There is a huge difference.......... sm
between an MT who might be fortunate enough to make $20 an hour, which could be considered a livable wage, and a UAW making about $40 an hour without benefits. And no, I'm not one of the fortunate ones, but if I were and that were in the offing, then I would likely start looking into retraining for another line of work. Be that as it may, MTs are paid less than slave wages now, or hadn't you noticed before you retired?
The UAW taking a cut in pay is not in order for money to "go to the coffers of the CEOs." The CEOs are supposed to take pay cuts as well and at least 2 of them are working for $1 a year, aren't they? This is about saving the industry, but I doubt this bailout will do that. Come March, I fully expect that nothing will have changed and they will want more money and/or time. Will be interesting to see what happens then.
Here's a link for the auto industry bailout
They keep flip-flopping. The second link is Paulson's idea. That was probably posted before but am posting again just in case.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/27721013
http://www.cnbc.com/id/27712153
Bush approves auto bailout........ sm
to the tune of 17.4 billion.
Mr. Bush, in a televised speech before the opening of the markets, said that under other circumstances he would have let the companies fail, as punishment for their own bad business decisions. But given the economic downturn, he said the government had no choice but to step in.
“These are not ordinary circumstances, in the midst of a financial crisis and a recession allowing the US auto industry to collapse is not a responsible action,” Mr. Bush said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/20/business/20auto.html
Oklahoma alone has a huge oil supply. sm
When I worked at the University, I was told there was so much oil in capped off tanks, it would astound the populance to know how much. The oil is here.
Wow...that is huge for a "small" message...
and what possible "context" could change the meaning of those quotes? I invite you to elaborate on that. They said it, they meant it. And if you will read up on it, it WAS the intelligence gathered by the Clinton administration that Bush used. The SAME men were advising him who advised Clinton (Clarke and Tenet). I still say that was his BIGGEST mistake (keeping them). Nice try at a smoke screen, but the fact remains...if the intelligence was lies, they are ALL lying. Not JUST Bush. The Iraq Liberation Act came under the Clinton administration...not the Bush administration. Crafted by Democrats, endorsed enthusiastically by Democrats. I would believe all that before I would believe the claims of one man and one book that is being quoted ad nauseam. the fact that it is accepted as "fact" (I would imagine it is listed as "fiction" in book stores) in the face of all this historical data (you can't argue with the Library of Congress, and a person's own eyes and ears regarding those quotes).
I REPEAT...over 50% of individuals polled say they are against abortion. In a democracy (NOT THEOCRACY) majority is supposed to rule. THAT is also constitutional. But I guess that escapes some delusional zealots who want to impose their lack of morality on the rest of us?? (to use your words) There is no need to be hateful about this.
Can't believe you use the term "over a lots of dead bodies." Why is it more horrific that a woman would die from a botched abortion than the millions of bodies of aborted children that pile up year after year? What is even remotely moral about that? How someone can defend that in the name of choice...defies any morality.
And to set the record straight...not everyone who is against abortion is against it on religious grounds. They are against it on MORAL grounds. You don't have to be religious to have morality. There are several folks who identify themselves as "true" liberals and say that if you oppose war, oppose the death penality, on the basis of loss of life that it is inconsistent to be pro abortion. And I would agree, that based on everything I have read about the liberal philosophy, it is inconsistent with being pro abortion. But I guess some "liberals" pick and choose what life is worth saving. There's that choice thing again.
How can it be right to give one person (the mother) choice over the life of another (the child)? And why is that choice only good before the baby takes a breath, and afterward it becomes murder? That is about as inconsistent as it gets.
The challenges have failed because there have remained enough liberal judges in the court to keep from a majority. That is why it has failed. Why won't Congress just take it up and pass an abortion law (a REAL law)...why did they never do that in all the years abortion was illegal? Ask yourself THAT question.
Our next President WILL be a huge factor
xx
We've had HUGE government
over the last eight years, up through and including the purchase of BANKS.
Why is it that we can find money for wars and thieving corporations, but one PENNY designed to help American citizens is viewed as evil? Why is the thought of rebuilding our crumbling infrastructures such a bad thing, considering it will require WORKERS to do that and will bring JOBS with it?
Why is it okay for Bush to care so much about the Iraqi people he bombed that he included comprehensive and universal healthcare as part of his Iraq war budget, yet the mere mention of helping almost 50 million people acquire healthcare just terrible?
All that's just fine and dandy, but dare to mention one thing to help Americans get by in a bad economy is suddenly "big government"?
Bush only cared about corporate welfare and is supported. Obama cares about people and is trashed. For the life of me, I don't understand that way of thinking.
P.S. Who do you think will ultimately pay for all the things I mentioned above -- the things that Bush placed on the world's "credit card?"
If you are going to give money to re-educate the auto workers....... sm
then it would follow that money should be given to sustain and re-educate the people in other industries (MT comes to mind) that are suffering because of big suit mismanagement and jobs going overseas. What about the thousands upon thousands of other displaced workers in the public sector that have lost their jobs? Will they need to be re-educated as well? Will there be jobs available to them, even if they are re-educated?
Maybe that's what all those re-education centers all over America are for. hmmmmmmm
Article I read on the auto industry and the election.
Good article and the guy they interviewed, Peter DeLorenzo (?) - a guy all up on the auto biz - said neither McCain nor Obama had a clue when it came to the auto industry. The article gave a little bit of the voting records on both related to the auto industry.
Candidates Voting Record On Auto Industry-Related Issues:
Clean Energy Achievement Criteria (2007): McCain - no vote; Obama - Yes
Preventing Petroleum Export Organizations (NOPEC Act of 2007): McCain - no vote; Obama - Yes
Reduction in Dependence on Foreign Oil (2005): McCain - No, Obama - Yes
Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (No) Drilling Amendment (2005): McCain - Yes, Obama - Yes
Does Palin kno McCain voted no on reducing dependence on foreign oil?
The auto industry's V6 motor is pretty good
We get 28-30 MPH with it. Why they didn't brag this up, I have no idea. It has power, too. We could keep up with the V8's with no problem. Had a very large luxury Delta 98 LS and it was the best car we ever had...but the frame rotted away, so we kept the motor and put it into a Buick LeSabre.
Part of the problem is the unions. I've always been a union supporter, but they have really killed the industry in this country in the past 20 years. That's why there are no steel industries here anymore. That's why auto workers make a fantastic wage. Once they make good to fantastic wages, they won't back down.
Face it. People are greedy and this is a gigantic wake up call, but if they don't want to, or aren't willing to, take pay cuts, or pay more for their health insurance, then we're doomed to fall into a greater depression than seen in the 30s. A me-first-and-only-me economy doesn't work.
Example: Teachers in my area are screaming and going on strike because they don't want to pay more for health insurance. They pay $40 biweekly. I pay $200 a pay and before that, I paid $630 a month. I'm happy paying $200 a month. Are they? Nope. It's me-me-me. When are people going to wake up?
If our bailed-out auto industry doesn't invest enough
over their addiction to fossil fuels to power them, why bother to buy a new one, I'll just keep patching my old one together. At least it's paid-for, so I don't have to support the Evil and Deceitful Banking Industry with my hard-earned money. I'd rather it go to a *real* worker, like my faithful mechanic!
This is not social programs......this is HUGE government
!!
And now we have a huge trade imbalance with china..
because China has bought up all of our securities in the form of loans. That's why kids toys are full of lead. If you're smart, you will check the labels on ALL products you buy. Did you know that in China they string their chicken coops over shrimp ponds? The chicken feed is supplemented with shavings, dust, particles from plastics and fiberglass plants (to save money) and the chicken droppings are what the shrimp feed on. Crest toothpaste is made in Mexico. Hepatitis A outbreaks came from Mexico. Dollar store brands? Check the labels on vitamins, aspirin, EVERYTHING (China - they put ANYTHING in their products). Even Birdseye frozen vegetables are grown and packaged in Mexico. The only store I have found that the labels inevitably say: Grown and manufactured in the USA is SAVE-A-LOT!!! What happened to the FDA? Remember when Bush said we couldn't buy our medications from Canada? Guess who is making most of our meds now................
It would just create a huge black market, and
Trusting Obama's character. That is a huge problem
nm
I feel no hope, but a huge depression coming.
it is going to be a long, crazy, up and down, scary ride. I do not see any hope, but failure for this country. Will NEVER be the same. You all who wanted change are going to get it. I am not sure what change the O keeps talking about, but it does not sound good to me at all. I want to have hope, but I cannot stand who the O picked for Chief of Staff. Hiliary Clinton stated yesterday, IN HER OWN WORDS, were not good about him at all. The only vocabulary that he has coming out of his mouth is 4-letter words. He is nothing but a JERK. So I guess that means we all can act like Rahm Emanuel and maybe we all can get somewhere in life? I do not think so, but that is who the O picked. I guess I should read DickMorris' book when he worked with President Clinton and Rhambo who is not very trusthworthy individual. It seems to me is psycho. Starting to stock up on paper products, toilet paper, paper towels and even tampons since paper products were hard to find during the depression. If the car companies do not get bailed out, look out country. I do have mixed feelings about bailing out car companies though. I wish we could, but then it will be bailing them out for the next 2 years and then next in line will be airline companies. WE DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO DO THIS.
The huge emphasis on tomorrow is in direct proportion to
Finally. A President we can all be PROUD of, instead of hide-your-head-in-a-bag EMBARRASSED.
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