What are your opinions on Fla and Michigan
Posted By: ermt on 2008-05-21
In Reply to:
I keep hearing about HC wanting to push on getting Florida and Michigan votes to count, delegates to be seated, etc. While I understand about every vote should count and they should, I also understand that Fla & Mich agreed on this so that they could vote early (i.e. they broke the rules and were punished) and both sides (Obama & Clinton) agreed to it. I guess at that time she thought that the whole US was just going to vote for her and nobody would vote for Obama and now that she is seeing otherwise she wants to change the rules/laws.
Now I don't even understand why there is a meeting going on. Doesn't anyone just tell them...No! You agreed to this. You were told of the consequences and you agreed and now that your losing you want to change the laws to be put in your favor. Every time they don't win they want to change the rules, and I dont understand why they are not just being told "No". If they are so concerned about all the votes counting why didn't they just wait until when they were supposed to vote and not push it earlier. I can tell you - because they thought they would be winning more states and they didn't care enough about Fla or Mich to wait.
Now I understand that she is going to go to the meeting and push that even with FL and MI she doesn't have enough votes, but she's now going to push for them to just dismiss Obama (even though he has more delagates and votes, and states won), that they should just dump him and make her the nominee because she believes she can win over McCain. She really needs to wake up. She's just like her husband - a legend in their own minds. If she steals this from Obama and becomes the nominee (which I doubt very very much) but if she was to be able to finagle that so much dirt would come out going all the way back to Whitewater, Rose Law Firm, etc, etc,
Maybe what they should be doing is taking responsibility and telling the citizens of FL & MI the real reason why their votes are not being counted - because of her and her decisions she made and if they blame anyone they should blame her for not following the laws.
And on another side cannot anyone tell me why in the world Obama's name was not on the ticket in MI. I have not for the life of me figured out that one. Only her name was on the ticket? Helloooo....the last time I looked there were two candidates. Now they are trying to say Obama removed his name from the ticket. Yeah, right, tell me another one. I hear that and I think, what country do we live in where the person who wants to be president has only their name on the ballot. That's what I hear happens in Cuba, Russia and all those other communist countries.
When wil the insanity end?
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Michigan
I live here in Michigan and we have the highest unemployment in the US. My husband got laid off right after Christmas and I have had no work since the beginning of January working for the Q, so I also am on unemployment. We are really struggling and worried about putting food on the table and paying the bills. Too much stress! We don't eat out at all or go shopping for anything that is not a necessity. Things are horrible here, everyone is hurting. I actually saw a lawyer this morning and am considering filing bankruptcy which I don't want to do but I really don't have a choice. We just keep praying that things get better which is about all we can do.
I appreciate the opinions, however;
as your fellow Ohioans voted him into the Ohio senate in 1996 has served six terms as congressman, it stands to reason your view is the minority. Viggo Mortensen was in NH speaking on Kucinich's behalf during the caucus, and it is my understanding the Melissa Etheridge is also a supporter. I just think your argument is a bit weak. If you want to discount him, attack him for his views or failed policies. I don't care if he is supported by people such as Willie Nelson. I happen to enjoy his music and his private life is exactly that, private; and I don't believe in guilty by association.
Hey GP - I always say we may all have different opinions
But we should all feel strongly about our opinions that we put our name. It's good to see you too GP. Like I say we may not always agree, but I read the posts. My husband always tells me "Knowlege is Freedom". I agree with you though, it is hard to tell the posters. I've been swamped with work lately and trying to play with my cat more. Poor thing gets so lonely. And I go through stages with being tired of being bashed, then figure I have a right to post my opinion. So now I feel the board is getting too filled with the lovefest crowd for the O, so I gotta bring the board back to being real here again. HA HA -I'm sure you'll disagree with me on that one though :-), but differences are what makes this country so great. So now I'm back to posting my opinion whether someone likes it or not. Someone's gotta stir the pot. HA HA. If I feel strongly about a topic or an article I find interesting I will post.
Well, you know what they say about opinions........nm
x
Opinions
are like (you know what word), everyone has one. You just have to know where to look to defend yours. We could post others' opinions like this all day - it's not going to change my mind and I can see it's not going to change yours.
You're entited to your opinion and I respect that.
Michigan is in a depression.
I was born and raised in Michigan. Your state has been hit hard. I live in the Northwest and in my neighborhood, I have 8 new families who have moved in and guess where they are from? Michigan. A lot of my family members in Michigan believe that the Oil companies should bail out the 3 car companies, not from taxpayers money. Family members do not seem to care if the car companies fold because they are already in worse shape. My cousin, last family relative working for the GM, took an early retirement package given to him 2-3 weeks BEFORE the financial crisis hit US. He was very lucky. I have family members considering moving to the Northwest and 1 family already is here and just love it.
am originally from Michigan sm
Oakland County and alot of my reltives still live there. Some are retired from GM. It is really bad up there. Lots of folks on my sister's street with no jobs and more losing jobs every day. I was up there in September and the houses for sale are unreal!
Being that I live in Michigan and s/m
have a father that retired from General Motors and have a lot of friends that have either retired from there or currently work there, it is a big combination of blame. I blame the union, General Motors and the employees for letting a lot of this happen. GM paid the "fat cats" (that is what they are called around here) big money for skilled trades for them to sit around and do nothing, literally nothing. It is a big joke around here that some go and clock in and turn around and go straight to a bar and then go back to clock out. If they are needed, someone will call their cell and let them know they are needed.
It has been common for years to allow employees to work 70/80 hour weeks, massive overtime and my father was one of them. He was making over $130k a year, if not more when he retired. I know it was hard physically on him to do it, but he said that he mostly read on the job and exercised. A friend's husband goes to work to sleep.
I am not saying that everyone does this, but a majority of them do and it is a real shame. I know the ones on the lines cannot do it, but the skilled trades can and do. If the salaried employees complain, then the union gets involved and they still get to keep their jobs no matter how many times they are written up. It takes a lot to get an employee fired.
Just think, something breaks on the line, so they call in the skilled trades guy who has been at the bar drinking, he comes and fixes whatever is wrong, creating a quality problem and then GM has to charge so much money to cover the expenses. And we wonder why they are over priced? And they want to be bailed out? No thank you!
The GM execs have been getting millions of dollars in bonuses for years as well and the employees get a nice check before Xmas as well for a bonus. They should have been like any other company and budgeted their money. Shame on them. If they had quality vehicles at a reasonable price, people wouldn't be buying foreign cars. I personally do drive a GM vehicle because of the discount that I get from my dad. Otherwise, I would probably be buying foreign as well, you get what you pay for.
Sorry to rant, but living in a GM town and not working there, you can get a different perspective on things than what is shown in the news/media. Forgive me if I have offended anyone.
What?? Where's Michigan? Oh, yeah...
We have the Big 3 and Detroit. 'Nuf said.
How do you know how I seek my opinions?
Just because I don't listen to far left, excuse the phrase, wackos, that have been discredited right and left does not mean I don't seek out diverse opinions. I read and watch a lot of opposing views. I will say that I have core beliefs in which I have made my mind up about and my opinion does not sway with the direction of the wind on any given day. I don't see anything wrong with that, and that philosophy has served me well over nearly a half a century of life, so I will stick with the tried and proven.
I have every right to post my opinions :)
now I am finished with this really. these are my opinions and you just are not going to change them no matter how much you try to intimidate or try to demean me. your unkind words from the previous posts were all I needed to see. you came out as if it was you I was talking about so you must identify very strongly with this particular person. if that offends you - there is not much I can say, you are going to just keep on keeping on...
I still stick to my opinions from my first post, sorry you are offended so...
go ahead, have the last word...
Michigan is in a one state recession. sm
The big 3 are tanking, our unemployment numbers are higher than the nation as a whole, jobs are leaving like the spring thaw, and who does Obama pick as part of his "Financial Advisory Committee"....none other than our wonderful governor, Jennifer Granholm. She can't advise her own state let alone the country. She now says that we have to cut the budget even more than last time. There isn't a whole lot left to cut. Our education system is absolutely the pits, Detroit is bankrupting us all, and she gets picked for part of the financial advisory committee. Makes me wonder what's going in Obama's head.
Oh well, at least I have a trade I can take with me where ever I go. The ultimate in healthcare portability.
Michigan is a right to work state a well s/m
But if you have a union behind (once upon a time the union had much pull), it took a lot to get you fired.
The last sentence is particularly worrisome for Michigan.....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/18/AR2009061804053.html?wpisrc=newsletter
Senate's Health-Care Draft Calls for Most to Buy Insurance, Nixes Obama's 'Public Option'
By Lori Montgomery and Shailagh Murray
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, June 19, 2009
A draft proposal in the Senate to overhaul the nation's health-care system would require most people to buy health insurance, authorize an expansion of Medicaid coverage and create consumer-owned cooperative plans instead of the government coverage that President Obama is seeking.
The document, distributed among members of the Senate Finance Committee yesterday afternoon, addressed none of the funding questions that have consumed House and Senate negotiators in recent days. But it included an array of coverage provisions that were drastically scaled back from earlier versions, as lawmakers seek to shrink the bill's overall cost. The proposal, for instance, would reduce the pool of middle-class beneficiaries eligible for a new tax credit meant to make insurance more affordable.
The absence of a "public option" marks perhaps the most significant omission. Obama and many Democrats had sought a public option to ensure affordable, universal coverage, but as many as 10 Senate Democrats have protested the idea as unfair to private insurers. In its place, the draft circulated yesterday outlines a co-op approach modeled after rural electricity and telecom providers, subject to government oversight and funded with federal seed money.
Yesterday, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) met with four Republicans, including Sen. Charles Grassley (Iowa), the ranking GOP member on the panel, along with two Democratic colleagues in an attempt to find bipartisan consensus. Baucus dubbed the group "the coalition of the willing."
Meanwhile, in the House, Democrats are exploring a range of funding options, including a surtax on the rich and an increase in the payroll tax imposed on all U.S. workers. The list also includes new taxes on sugary drinks and alcohol, along with broader levies, such as a national value-added tax of up to 3 percent.
The Senate's preferred option -- taxing the health benefits that millions of Americans receive through their employers -- is also on the House list. So is Obama's favorite idea: limiting the value of itemized deductions for the nation's wealthiest 3 million taxpayers.
Rep. Richard Neal (D-Mass.), chairman of the Ways and Means subcommittee charged with developing a financing plan, said lawmakers have not "embraced any particular source of revenue." But he confirmed that big, broad-based taxes like the payroll tax and a value-added tax are under discussion, mainly because they have the potential to raise "a lot of money" for an expansion of health coverage expected to cost more than $1 trillion over the next decade.
The House will not unveil a financing plan until after the July 4 recess, Neal said, though House leaders were expected to release an outline of the rest of their plan today, with a goal of putting a bill to vote later this summer. The Senate is aiming to debate its legislation in July as well, and is seeking a bill that would cost less than $1 trillion.
Maintaining that tight schedule could prove difficult, though, because daunting issues remain in both chambers. One area of contention is the extent to which private employers must subsidize public coverage for their workers if the companies don't offer their own plan or if the premiums are unaffordable. The Congressional Budget Office has warned that if lawmakers don't find the right formula, employees may flee their company plans for federal coverage, sending government costs soaring.
The draft in the Senate committee spells out one possible solution: It would require employers to pay 50 percent of Medicaid costs for workers enrolled in the low-income program and 100 percent of the cost of health-insurance tax credits for eligible employees. Workers could forfeit employer coverage only if the cost exceeds 12.5 percent of their income.
The draft, earlier reported on by washingtonpost.com blogger Ezra Klein, spells out four options for requiring employers to provide coverage, with exemptions for firms with up to 200 employees. It would fine individuals who do not purchase coverage, though certain groups, including Native Americans and undocumented workers, would be exempted.
It also would loosen eligibility requirements for Medicaid, a proposal certain to alarm many governors who are grappling with budget crises.
Oh I see....just drive by and repeat the same opinions over and over.
Thank you for clarifying that for me.
So be it. We have differing opinions, both of us are entitled....
No matter who gets elected, I hope things get better for you. Sincerely.
No boyfriend sleepovers for parents in Michigan...sm
Dad Pans Girlfriend Sleepover Ban
DETROIT, Dec. 22, 2005
 (AP / CBS)
This antiquated law allows the state to unconstitutionally interfere with a parent's relationship with his or her children.
Kary Moss, executive director, ACLU of Michigan
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(AP) A divorced father will fight a ruling that keeps his girlfriend away from their Michigan home when his children visit overnight, the state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union said Wednesday.
The ACLU said it would appeal to the state Supreme Court on behalf of Christian Muller, whose ex-wife sought the court order based on an 1838 state law that makes lewd and lascivious cohabitation a crime. Michigan is one of only seven states with such a law on the books, the ACLU said.
This antiquated law allows the state to unconstitutionally interfere with a parent's relationship with his or her children, said Kary Moss, executive director of the ACLU of Michigan.
Muller shares legal custody of his two daughters, ages 5 and 7, with his former wife, Nicolette Muller.
Oakland County Judge Daniel Patrick O'Brien ordered that both parents be prohibited from having overnight visitation with their children when they have unrelated overnight guests of the opposite sex.
The latest appeal argues that the Court of Appeals decision conflicts with its prior rulings and with the Child Custody Act of 1970, and relies on an unconstitutional statute — the 1838 state law.
Elizabeth Silverman, an attorney who had represented Nicolette Muller, said Wednesday her services had not been retained for the latest appeal.
A home telephone number could not be found for Nicolette Muller, who lives in southeastern Michigan.
Michigan Police Officer's Take on Obama...
This was forwarded to me by a boyhood friend who is a retired cop.
Please pass this along to everyone that you have on your e-mail list because this is just the beginning if this arrogant, egotistical, super liberal, president wannabe gets into office....
To all,
I have read all of the emails from not only some of the MTOA board members, but from other Law Enforcement & Military personnel about Barack Obama's rudeness and what seems to be disgust for basically anyone in uniform. Well, it's my turn to add to the list of emailers and here it is:
So members of the Calhoun County Sheriff's Department, Michigan State Police, (me included) and other local agencies inside Calhoun County are working with Secret Service in the security of Mr. Obama. Mr. Obama's bus arrives in Battle Creek and pulls into the stadium area. Before Mr. Obama exits the bus, he has the Secret Service get off and tell all Law Enforcement personnel in uniform that they now have to stand behind the bus so Mr. Obama is not seen with anyone in a Law Enforcement uniform before he gets off or while in the public view. So, everyone from Michigan State Police, Sheriff's Departments and other agencies look at each other for a brief second, go and stand behind the bus out of sight so Mr. Obama does not have to see, or been seen with, what to him is 'undesirables' since he refuses to been seen or even acknowledge Military or Law Enforcement personnel in uniform. And he wants to be our commander-in-chief!
At a time of war and terrorism in our world, this presidential candidate who is being protected by various branches of the military & law enforcement at the tax payers expense, refuses to acknowledge, be seen with, have in his photographed background, any type of Military or Law Enforcement in uniform.
But this is not in the headlines or in the news or on TV. The TV news doesn't show us marching around behind the bus. In the future, look and see if you can see a single soldier or police officer in uniform when you see Obama. Why? I wonder what the story or media frenzy would be if it was Muslims, blacks, whites, Jews, or any other race, gender, religion, and/or occupation, that Mr. Obama refused to be seen with or have around him.
Why would I make this up? Everyone in Law Enforcement knows we have traditionally had more funding under Democrats.
Just food for thought leading up to November 4th.
Jason Kern
Michigan Tactical Officer's Association
Michigan State Police
Executive Board Member
Stand in line behind Michigan. Our roads are probably almost as bad. sm
And we have the highest gas tax in the country that is supposed to take care of that. However, with Michigan being a 1 state recession and/or depression, roads might be the least of our worries.
Michigan will lose big time if no bailout
Here in Michigan 7 out of 10 jobs are related to the auto industry. I don't know if the bailout is the right thing to do or not, but if the auto industry fails, Michigan will be in big trouble. We already have the highest unemployment rates in the country and I believe the highest foreclosure rate. I do believe most of the high executives need to go, their salaries and "benefits" are unbelievable with the bonuses, stock options, etc.
I heard this today.....and I live in Michigan....
Some governors are not going to take the stimulus money because there are too many strings attached to it. Well never fear......our wonderfully liberal Jennifer Granholm, who takes from the west side to give to the east side, has so nicely volunteered to take all the money that other governors have turned down and put it to good use. Not that we couldn't use it, but.....
No, I think the point is you don't seek out diverse opinions..sm
I watch Fox, listen to Hannity, O'Reilly, and many other conservatives (the ones that can be civil and are not self centered). I read and watch opposing views as often as I do amen columns/shows.
Condi Rice said at a graduation ceremony, (as I remember reading the article) *If you feel strongly about something (politically) that's fine, just seek out someone who feels the exact opposite and talk to them about it.*
GP is entitle to have 2 opinions on 2 unrelated topics.
x
No, I watch the same thing, only I seek out diverse opinions.sm
In the past, I did not.
Here's a quiz for you: Name the best-known and most influential conservative commentators in America? Rush Limbaugh? George F. Will? Bill O'Reilly? Now, quick, who are their liberal counterparts?
Opinions count. Nothing wrong in researching them as long as
nm
Excuse me, I am intelligent, I listen to all of it, and make my own opinions....sm
STOP making the broad generalizations, it rates right up there with the "psychics and fortune tellers" who just know that Obama will fail and are actually licking their lips waiting for it. How childish. If you chose to listen to Rush and follow him, great for you, I guess. If I choose to listen to him and come to a divergent conclusion about his motives or veracity, or anything else about the man, I am also free to. You know the hold saying about ASSUMING?????????
DH and I live in Michigan. We called Hoekstra, Levin, and Stabenow....
We told them that they no longer had our vote as they voted FOR the "porkulus" bill, they voted for the first bailout, and had not accomplished anything for their constituents in ages. We also told them that we were going to get all our friends and friends of friends to vote for whoever runs against them. Levin has been in politics since Hector was a pup and the state of Michigan has nothing to show for it. Our unemployment rate is higher than the national average, our jobs have been leaving left and right, the Big 3 are tanking, our economy is tanking, and yet Levin and his cronies still keep sticking it to the little people.
And people ask if there is a recession? Michigan is in it's own one-state recession.
Opinions on Hillary's proposed health care system?
Personally, I'm against mandatory health insurance laws. Look how mandatory auto insurance goes - you buy the cheapest policy because you can't afford the good ones. Your policy covers squat, but you're legal. I'm concerned the "affordable" health insurance she wants to force us to buy will turn into the same thing - a crap policy that covers nothing but keeps you legal. Does anybody else feel like I do about this?
Facts are always called opinions by the left when they refuse to acknowledge them...sm
The facts within the article are true. No matter how much you want to ignore them.
You are so blind.
The whole country would crash and burn. Do you know how many jobs in Michigan alone are auto related
Michigan might as well hang a sign on the door saying last one out, turn out the lights. But then if Obama has his way, we won't have any electricity either because the coal companies will be bankrupted too. Domino effect in my opinion.
Yup, don't forget to include the opinions of the criminally insane as undeniable truth....nm
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