Well, SbMT, since you seem to have the inside scoop

• They sure won't be able to deal with it if he loses. - Kaydie
  • what will they do - basketchick
  • Obama - Stardust
    • And I am likewise not surprised you are voting for Obama. (nm) - sam
    • You should not presume anything - Kaydie
      • Would someone please explain - gourdpainter
      • go with your instincts - Stardust
        • I'm glad you feel strongly about him - see message - Kaydie
          • Respectfully to Kaydie - gourdpainter
            • Great post! - Stardust
          • Are you trying to convince me... - Stardust
    • If he is already planning a 2M party - sbMT
      • How petty can you get? - Both camps are planning vistory parties....sm
        • JM may be planning but we're not hearing about it - Kaydie
          • thats because - basketchick
            • speak for yourself - nm
      • Obama - Stardust
        • Here - sbMT
          • I've never heard JM say "when" - sm - Kaydie
            • How about - gourdpainter
          • Obama - Stardust
            • YOU are the one who brought up Mccain - sbMT
        • No "If" - sbMT
          • I'll vouch for the fact - gourdpainter
          • Do you hear yourself. Seriously. Nitpicking over - "that depends on what the....sm
            • I didn't say that depends on what the definition of "IF" - sbMT
              • No need to translate English to English. - But evidently, a playful allusion to...sm
                • I wasn't arguing! - sbMT
  • You are so wrong ...another example of ignorance - lefty louie
    • Boy is this getting bad - Kaydie
    • I personally work in an office where THREE dems - are voting for McCain. O terrifies them.nm
      • Many repubs voting for Obama in my experience..OR NOT VOTING ..only - Mrs. M
      • Well, I personally am a - Dee
    • First of all -- she is not all that wrong - A defected democrat here
      • McC camp is so desperate they will even pose - as dems...just like Bradley yesterday. sm
        • and here I thought conservatives had the market on - conspiracy theories!
        • thanks for calling me a liar -- - I appreciate that -- I won't comment
    • guns - sbMT
      • Well, SbMT, since you seem to have the inside scoop - lefty louie
        • I'm not from here either - sbMT
      • Shootings - Renee
        • Thank you. - You're right.
          • It's you or them and when making - sm
          • well that's fine if you live in the city - sbMT

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I believe the people who feel compelled to riducle people who have Faith are people to whom the Holy Spirit is speaking, they just refuse to listen. Otherwise, why would they care what we believe?   Even Jesus said his Spirit would not always strive with men.  I happen to believe it is never too late to accept Christ until we draw our last breath and we never know in which instant that may occur.  I also believe at some point, if He is continually rejected, he will stop trying to speak to us.

"Religion" and Faith are, indeed to very different things.  I have a particular distaste for televangelists and I also do not believe that ALL churches (having nothing to do with denomination) are of God, nor are all church members Christians.  As well, I believe there are many true Christians who do not attend organized churches.  By denomination I would call myself Methodist.  Do I agree with everything?  No.  I go to church for one purpose and one purpose only, that is to praise God, worship Him and renew my spirit.  It matters not to me what name is on the church door; there's one heaven (in my faith) and one hell.  We will all live one place or the other for eternity.  I would rather be ridiculed now than cast out in the final judgment.  If when I'm dead I was wrong then no big deal but our spirits, I believe, will cry for those who were told and continued to call us fools for believing.  The Bible says there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.  I believe this.

Ridiculed or not, I am praying for our nation, God save it.

We are very much alike.  I was raised in a Methodist church but not a very devout family.  My first husband was Southern Baptist so I'm well versed.  I do also believe in the Rapture, which belief, as you know, is that we won't be here during the worst of the tribulation.  I'm not sure if I believe the Rapture will occur pre or mid tribulation.  I do believe that we are in the beginning of the end and I, for one, expect Christ to return at any minute.  There are those other things spoken of in the Bible as well...where it says people will scoff at us and continuing as usual.  I always wondered about some things in Revelations, but remember where it says the world will experience a financial collapse and a man will rise up appearing to have the answers?  Well, it seems to me that we are in a position for such to actually happen.

BTW my present husband was raised Catholic.  He has not been a practicing Catholic for many years.  He goes to church with me but more importantly, he believes that Christ died for  his sins, past, present and future and accepts Him as his personal Savior as did my first husband.  I look forward to being with both of them in eternity where we will not be husband and wife.

Matthew 24 http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=Matthew+24 also gives us warning and we see those very things beginning to  happen now..

SbMT:

I am very moved by what you have posted...I feel at times that we have become so jaded and cynical in this world - look at how we treat our brothers and sisters: Compassion is what reminds us, whether one is athiest or a believer, that we ARE all connected to one another, and we don't clean up our act; the price we are going to pay will be one that will taint generations to come..

Other than I would rather see Obama be elected than  McCain/Palin I agree with you 100%.  I also agree that Obama came up pretty fast through the ranks.  Whatever it is, it's pretty well-hidden or the pubs wouldn't have to resort to the garbate they're spitting out.   I'm sure the dirt is there somewhere.  On the other hand, McCain picked his running mate, not on what was good for America but was good for HIM...he thought. 

What I have to wonder is what will it take to get Americans off their lazy butts to do something.  We can either sit around and whine and blame Republicans/Democrats or we can CHANGE OUR GOVERNMENT.  It's been done before and it can be done again when the American PEOPLE come together as they did in the few days after 9/11 and forget their political affiliation.  Immediately after 9/11 I was yeaing Pres. Bush.  Shortly thereafter I lost all respect for him.  There is more to that Iraq war than any of us know and it ain't good!!! 

We, the people, can change our government but it's going to take some drastic action.  Remember the Revolution?  When enough people say ENOUGH, then and only then will we see meaningful change.

Even though we don't agree on which candidate will be the least of the worst, it is so heartening to read your no nonsense, common sense post.  I'm sure there are many on this board who have the brains to actually think and move past the Republican/Democrat loyalty if they just put their minds to it.

You are so right there are crooks at the top and the bottom of the pile.  IF Robinhood takes from the rich and gives to the poor I'm fairly sure the "trickle down" effect will work.  They'll just trickle the extra taxes on down to the middle class or whatever is left of it and the middle class will also pick up on the tab for the career welfare people.

I am all for helping people help themselves.  Much as I hate taxes, I would even be willing to pay a little more to help people help themselves.  The welfare system is frought with dishonesty.  I think those on the welfare rolls whose familiies have been there for generations should be told in no uncertain terms that they WILL get off their lazy butts and go to work or they simply will not eat or have a roof over their head at government expense.  Help those who want an education to get it, maybe an internship or OJT for less skilled workers as not everyone is college material.  Provide daycare while they are getting the education.  Maybe when they are gainfully employed they could pay back at least part of the cost of getting their education.  AND no welfare, food stamps, daycare,  housing or anything else for anyone in this country illegally.  Do away with the anchor baby thing.  IMHO a child who is born in this country to illegal parents should have no rights of citizenship period. 

And while I'm about it...another chief complaint.....those in prison.  Put them to work making license plates or whatever and let them earn their keep.  Might not be so many in prison if they had to chop rocks or whatever.

We have got to do something or we're all going to go down the tube!

Have a good day.

First, I hope you feel better soon.  This seems the time for those nasty pre-winter ills to set in.  I'm not feeling well this morning either, upset stomach and diarrhea...aaaaarrrg.  Went to take a nap and had to get up post haste.  LOL

Thanks for your common sense and thought provoking statements. As a Christian I have struggled with many issues and my biggest issue is that neither candidate, if either is a Christian, has done anything to convince me of that.  Certainly McCain kicking his 1st wife to the curb for a younger, more beautiful woman with lots of money, I don't believe is something Jesus would approve of.

What we need is a true man of God, who is not afraid to stand up and proclaim his faith in Jesus Christ.  Of course that won't happen. 

I will not vote for John McCain because in my opinion he talks a talk that he doesn't walk.  Not meant to start an argument.

Maybe if he "bared his fruit" we'd see more about him.  LOL

I do love to argue doggone it but it seem like most people don't want to argue for the sake of solving anything, they just want everyone to believe as they believe.

I try to apply WWJD in everything I do but in this case I'm just stumped.  Both men say they are Christians.  Are they?  I don't know.  God knows and he isn't telling me.  I can't see the fruit either of these dudes bear.  They are politicians.  McCain tells such blatant lies that I wouldn't believe a word he says.  As for Obama, I am not convinced that he has lied, certainly not about McCain.  McCain on the other had either tells lies or stretches the truth about Obama to the breaking point.

I DO NOT believe in abortion but my opinion is that we need to keep the big, fat government out of our personal lives. The beginning of the downfall was Roe vs. Wade, when was that, who was president then, wasn't it Reagan.  The president as yet does not have the authority to enact laws all by himself I don't think.

I believe the last true Christian president we had was Jimmy Carter and look at him.  He was ridiculed and ran out of the white house so obviously some people didn't like having a Christian in the White House.  I'm sure there are Democrat Christians and Republican Christians.  If there was a man or woman running for president that I felt strongly was a Christian I would vote for him/her in a heartbeat but liars aren't usually very good Christians so I will vote for Obama and hope he serves the country well.  I cannot stomach 4 more years of George W. Bush.  I simply do not buy that he was given "bad intelligence."  He gave the American people a snow job and good ole McCain was right there by his side.

I had myself a good laugh at my own  thoughts and thought everyone else might lighten up a little if only for a little while.

I started this thread by addressing it to the pubs.  We have been talking in terms of dems, crats  and pubs for a while now.  I mean no disrespect when using the term.  If you do not identify yourself that way, it is not readily apparent in your post.  I simply meant to address the issue of republican reform. 

In any case, if you are a relative newcomer to the voting ranks, party independence is a good place to start.  Here is a perspective from someone who IS aligned with the left of center field of the democrat party.  He was NOT pandering to me, nor do I find Obama a party centrist either.  He is pretty much representative of the wide range of views within his own ranks. 

I do understand the trust issue you express, especially in view of how much that played into this current election's outcome.  McCain really was working with an almost insurmountable obstacle in terms of the nation's ability to trust the republican party.  If you are feeling that the shift to the left is too radical, you may want to consider what the driving force behind that shift is.  Fear of 4 more years was much, much greater than any fear the right-of-center wing of the republicans were able to drum up. 

Obama ran a brilliant campaign, particularly in terms changing the map colors from red to blue.  My party spent much of the past 8 years not only bringing Bush's faults into the spotlight, but much, much hard work on the grass roots regional and local levels.  We mobilized and activated ourselves.  2004 was a real blow and we had many hours of deep despair.  It took a great deal of determination and hard work to simply pick ourselves up and keep on keeping on.  If dems seem a bit euphoric at the moment, that would be the reason. 

Look for that to dissipate rather quickly.  We are also having to redefine our own party in response to YOUR generation of voters who seem very turned off by status quo and are looking for solutions rather than party alliances.  I for one believe Obama understands that very well and between the two candidate choices, he is the one who will orient himself in that direction.  He will be disappointing some of the more agenda driven democrats like myself, but will be making up for that by NOT pandering, rather knocking down barriers of division and opening up much broader dialogs aimed at compromise.  If he fails to do this, his re-election will be in peril.

As a footnote, I would like to add that I am hopeful that Nancy Pelosi will not be reaffirmed as House speaker, despite the fact that some of the party sees her as the best thing since sliced bread.  She is too old school and has not been effective in being a uniting force within the House.  I truly believe we are about to witness the reinvention of Washington politics across the board and both parties will have to learn how to go with that flow if they are to survive. 

I'm with you on the wait and see side of things.  What I can say with great certainty is that this in this country undoubtedly will be taking a turn for the better and I am willing to settle for that for the time being.  

I don't think there's anything wrong with laughing at something that is not only very funny but also happens to be true.  Unfortunately, this Administration hasn't given us very much to smile about.

When I read this, nothing led me to believe that Google has a liberal's brain.  By the way how much DID that "poor schlump" part with, since you seem to have all the answers? 

From your posting:

"So if you and Chomsky are comfortable with putting every man, woman and child in this country at risk to satisfy whatever beef you have against freedom and democracy, fine.  Your freedom of speech had a most terrible and high price tag.  Something tells me that many of these fine men and women, if they could speak now, would not thank you for your thoughts."

I do not recall stating anything related to your above quote.  As I said, you may have me confused with another poster. 

In the first place, I'd like to say thanks for posting here, and you're welcome here any time.

As far as supplying topics to discuss, YOU seem to be the one who is actually supplying the topics.  Today the Conservative board is a pleasant place to be, and even I felt safe responding to a post in your thread.  The topic was excellent, and nowhere have I seen you attack a poster for his or her opinion. 

You haven't come across as confrontational and hateful.  Unfortunately, to a lot of people, these three have done so.

People can debate without personally attacking a poster that doesn't agree with them.  You seem to have done that.  I hope the Conservative board is able to get more posters like you.  You've made it a comfortable place to be.

Chill!  LOL.  Gee, you sure are defensive.  I wonder where that came from!

You are NOT on the conservative board any more, and you don't have to walk on eggshells here (although I seem to have acquired a "fan" who has been following me around on this board, taking swipes at everything I say and just generally being unpleasant and contributing nothing of value to any conversation).  If you read the posts here, it's obvious to see whose agenda it is to discuss and debat and whose agenda is restricted to creating discomfort and attacking.

I thought your post was great, and there wasn't one word or phrase in your post above that would imply any lack of respect for a soldier. 

Some people just can't understand that others support the troops by wanting to keep them alive, honor their lives by only placing those lives in jeopardy when absolutely critical and necessary to protect America.  It's obvious you're not "against" our troops, but instead you're trying to fight FOR THEM while they are fighting for HIM and what I believe in the core of my soul to be his personal grudge war.  I believe more and more people are coming to this realization every day and share your thoughts (and mine), as well.

I come here because I like to see what a few certain posters write.  I've been reading these posters' thoughts for a few weeks now, and I find them to be genuine, original and heartfelt.  (If you have any doubt as to who these people are, just follow the long trail of the hateful responses to their posts.)  It's a source of relaxation to me after I finish working.  I've actually made a list of whose posts aren't worth reading any more because they totally lack value and are designed to do nothing but attack and harass.  I'm no longer willing to feed their addiction to hate, and I simply won't respond to them any more.  Again, if you read the board, I'm sure you will see who I'm referring to and why.  Wouldn't surprise me at all if you are their next target.  They can be very upsetting and cause normal, intelligent people to become very defensive.  They bait posters, and it seems to me if they're ignored, their posts will just stand alone, making their motives very, very clear.  (Just my personal opinion, and I only mention it because I don't want anyone to get to you or chase you away from here because they simply aren't worth it.)

I'm really glad to see you here.  Now I have one more reason to continue visiting this board.  I hope you have a great day! 

P.S.  I noted in your first post you mentioned you're a "military brat."  I'd just like to personally thank you and your family for the sacrifices you made for your country and for me as one of its citizens!

I'm posting the entire post, since I'm not sure if I copied the link correctly.  It was posted by vs, followed by additional attacks on gt and Brunson complaining of the *bog of eternal stench* that she claims *tends to drift on over here* on the Conservative Board, after nobody from the Liberal Board has bothered them.  Not once.

This is the post on the Conservative Board from vs, but it's not the only objectionable one.

Sorry to see you go

[Post a Reply] [View Follow Ups]      [Politics] --> [Conservatives]

Posted By: vs on 2005-11-28,
In Reply to: I agree with you, MT. SM - Brunson

I understand why though. It's a darn shame that one or two people make this an intolerable place for everyone. Well, if the post count goes down on the boards then maybe they will revisit their policies. At least on these boards the two-initialed Nazi is allowed get away with her genocide of anything conservative, but that's not helping the post count on the board at all.

BTW, I went to the Extremely Politics board, and only a person with a self-esteem death wish would dare post there. I can see why the two-initialed Nazi likes it there. She's free to practice her hate. It's not a place I would want to touch with a 10-foot pole.

http://www.forumatrix.com/ads/frame.cgi?action=main&target=www.forumatrix.com/Channels

Yes, forgiveness does mean that we have to realize our sins and confess them.   But, unless you are either George Bush himself, his pastor, or his God, how do you know he hasn't?  That is conjecture on your part.  None of us knows what has transpired between this man and his God.  I realize what I am saying will not be popular here, but I don't see a whole lot of Christianity in what I am seeing. Quoting from written sources is not addressing the fact that you are sitting in judgement of someone who is not you.  We aren't supposed to do that.  I hope you all have a blessed Sunday. I am off to church and will certainly pray that God releases from your hearts the hatred you carry.  

Here is some more from the conference.  So shines a light in a sometimes dim world.    

The sanctity and infinite worth of every human being is a quintessential Jewish value, grounded in the biblical notion that man is made in the image and likeness of God. Against this background, it is ironic and vexatious for many pro–life activists that American Jews tend to line up on the pro–choice side in the struggle over abortion. Affirming the Sanctity of Human Life, a conference held November 12 in Washington, D.C., brought together a hundred or so Jews who are troubled by the Jewish community’s stance toward the unborn, particularly concerning the gruesome late–term procedure known as partial–birth abortion.  The morning session consisted of panel presentations by three Orthodox Jews and a maverick Reform rabbi. Marshall Breger, a law professor and political writer, lamented the fact that Jews support abortion rights more than any religious or ethnic group: they are consistently 15 to 20 percent above the norm, he said, even when controlling for various factors such as religious belief or unbelief, political ideology, social class, etc. He attributed this support, in part, to fears that governmental restrictions on abortion would abridge personal autonomy and impose Christian religious standards on Jewish life. He said that gray areas in Jewish law—its combination of silence and ambiguity regarding the fetus’ status, its handful of exceptional situations allowing abortion—have confused Jews about the permissibility of abortion in general.

Barry Freundel, an Orthodox rabbi from Georgetown, seconded Breger’s sociological account of Jewish fears about abortion as being symbolic of the wider Jewish culture clash with conservative Christian movements. It’s hard to have a conversation about abortion, he said, that doesn’t become a conversation about something else. Even among his own Orthodox congregants, Freundel said, his pro–life preaching is treated as the rabbi getting up on his soapbox again. Nevertheless, he said, he feels obliged to inform them that the absolute license to abort, as practiced in the United States today, is simply impossible to reconcile with traditional Jewish teaching. Judaism, he said, permits abortion in a few limited circumstances, such as to save the life of the mother. He indicated that there is some difference of rabbinic opinion about these circumstances, but stressed that there is no warrant for the overwhelming number of abortions now performed in the U.S. He said that classic Jewish sources really don’t say much about the general moral or metaphysical status of the fetus; but, he added, we have an intuitive response that the fetus is not like an appendix or an in–grown toe nail that can simply be removed at will.