We are free to express whatever faith-related things we want over there, thanks for your input thoug
Posted By: MeMT on 2008-11-06
In Reply to: I am telling you the action is on the Faith Forum - christian enough
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Faith and blind loyalty are two different things
You are looking down your nose at people who differ in their beliefs than you. If we have convictions based on our faith (many faiths including Jewish, Christian/Catholic & Muslim consider Israel to be holy territory) then who are you to belittle what we see happening such as fulfilling of propehcy etc.? Just because you don't believe what is happening there has any Biblical/Koranic basis does not make us wrong or loony or whatever. Your statements basically made fun of people of faith, and I don't think that is very tolerant of you.
Those things are citizens exercising free speech,
The world they have been living in under the Patriot Act has pushed them into dark corners underground. They are the ones who ended up on the wrong side of that line in the and Bush drew after 911 when he said, "you are either for us or against us."
They all work, just like you and me, but sacrifice greatly for their activism. If you think the coverage you are getting about who they are, what they are saying or where they come from is fair, you are the one who is living on another planet. You skipped the part about police sweeping up reporters and bystanders, beating them up while hosing them down and dragging them away.
Take a look back into history some 30-40 years ago. These same "things" were the guys who marched and protested on behalf of civil rights for blacks and women and against the last wrong war were had. Yesterday's "things, today's authors, senators, congressmen, journalists, etc.
You must have been born AFTER their struggles bore fruit. Otherwise, you would not be so glib and would have no need to ask such inane questions.
Don't forget about free broadband, free gas, free healthcare, hey they are "rights" now YIP
xxx
If we are not allowed to express
political viewpoints.....what is the point of a political board?
I have know idea to what post you are referring to that you posted and was removed. You would have to take that up with the moderator.
That was not input! That was something
my college professor would have called "if you have nothing to intellectually add to the conversation, please be quiet" kind of input! JMO!
I think some of it is the opportunity to express some covert racism.
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Because so far I'm still allowed to express my honest opinion. He hasn't taken that away from us
yet.
Those are his words, and what is scary is that I think he believes it. It's bad enough we've got enemies who believe they're in a religious war. With each passing day, I'm starting to think HE believes he's in one, too. If that's the case, we're in more trouble than anyone could have thought.
My post was about HIM, not about you. But it isn't the first time a Bush groupie has PERSONALLY attacked a poster for expressing their opinion about BUSH. Now, how do you think that makes YOU look? Maybe it's YOU who should grow up or at least WAKE up and see what he's doing, not just to us but to the entire WORLD.
As long as we all still have freedom of expression, I'll continue to express my views, whether you like them or not.
And I hope you keep posting. Nobody can prove my point for me like a Bush groupie, and I do appreciate the help!!
Would be interested in your input to posts below
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If you want to make an input, you have to START
at the beginning of the thread, read ALL the posts and THEN give your comment!
NOT taking ONE comment out of context and start bashing!
I wonder where JTTB is? I miss her input...nm
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I didn't talk down your faith but your faith
Get over yourself already. He shows the kindness and tolerance of a true Christian and not all the hating and intolerance like you and a lot of people here. Just because you are a Christian doesn't make you any better than anyone else
Where is the line for free college, free healthcare...
mortgage paid for, free gas and ability to sit on my rear and let everyone else take care of me? Wow, now I see the light...this prez elect will be great!!
And in a related story...
...*Curious George* wants to know who's visiting porn sites. Hmmmmmm... thought spying was only supposed to be used to catch *terrorists*....
U.S., Google Set to Face Off in Court
By MICHAEL LIEDTKE, AP Business WriterTue Mar 14, 8:16 AM ET
The Bush administration will renew its effort to find out what people have been looking for on Google Inc.'s Internet-leading search engine, continuing a legal showdown over how much of the Web's vast databases should be shared with the government.
Lawyers for the Justice Department and Google are expected to elaborate on their opposing views in a San Jose hearing scheduled Tuesday before U.S. District Court Judge James Ware.
It will mark the first time the Justice Department and Google have sparred in court since the government subpoenaed the Mountain-View, Calif.-based company last summer in an effort to obtain a long list of search requests and Web site addresses.
The government believes the requested information will help bolster its arguments in another case in Pennsylvania, where the Bush administration hopes to revive a law designed to make it more difficult for children to see online pornography.
Google has refused to cooperate, maintaining that the government's demand threatens its users' privacy as well as its own closely guarded trade secrets.
The Justice Department has downplayed Google's concerns, arguing it doesn't want any personal information nor any data that would undermine the company's thriving business.
The case has focused attention on just how much personal information is stored by popular Web sites like Google — and the potential for that data to attract the interest of the government and other parties.
Although the Justice Department says it doesn't want any personal information now, a victory over Google in the case would likely encourage far more invasive requests in the future, said University of Connecticut law professor Paul Schiff Berman, who specializes in Internet law.
The erosion of privacy tends to happen incrementally, Berman said. While no one intrusion may seem that big, over the course of the next decade or two, you might end up in a place as a society where you never thought you would be.
Google seized on the case to underscore its commitment to privacy rights and differentiate itself from the Internet's other major search engines — Yahoo Inc. (Nasdaq:YHOO - news), Microsoft Corp.'s MSN and Time Warner Inc.'s America Online. All three say they complied with the Justice Department's request without revealing their users' personal information.
Cooperating with the government is a slippery slope and it's a path we shouldn't go down, Google co-founder Sergey Brin told industry analysts earlier this month.
Even as it defies the Bush administration, Google recently bowed to the demands of China's Communist government by agreeing to censor its search results in that country so it would have better access to the world's fastest growing Internet market. Google's China capitulation has been harshly criticized by some of the same people cheering the company's resistance to the Justice Department subpoena.
The Justice Department initially demanded a month of search requests from Google, but subsequently decided a week's worth of requests would be enough. In its legal briefs, the Justice Department has indicated it might be willing to narrow its request even further.
Ultimately, the government plans to select a random sample of 1,000 search requests previously made at Google and re-enter them in the search engine, according to a sworn declaration by Philip Stark, a statistics professor at the University of California, Berkeley who is helping the Justice Department in the case.
The government believes the test will show how easily it is to get around the filtering software that's supposed to prevent children from seeing sexually explicit material on the Web.
Free speech is alive and well, as is free will...
people can take anything out of context and do with it what they want; it still doesn't make it a McCain/Palin issue.
Is someone in this thread related to Senator
 Is that his nick name for McCain supporters? Hey how about McCain sell a few of those houses and give it to the financial companies???? How about the rich do something for a change???? How about that????
This makes me sick, all of it! We need to be addressed by these candidates and not set aside until oil companies and rich folks figure out what happened!!!! We are looking at who is going to be our next President and all Bush cares about are his pockets being lined? Poor thing; did he invest in the wrong stock???
I must be really whacked, but I feel this candidacy is waaaaay more important than IGA, IGM, Wash Mut, Bank of America, Lehman, Looman, Dooman, or dooofus, whatever!!!!! These lenders loaned the money to people who they knew couldn't pay it back and now it has come back to bite them and now its the rest of us having to bail them out. No sympathy here! I stayed within my budget; so sorry others did not!!!!!!!! These candidates are going to run this country. I think Obama is right; let's get it on with the debates.... JMO...
And he's related to Charles Keating!
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I think not. both related to redistribution of wealth...nm
Oh, c'mon... the low crime was not only related to - s/msg
the HUGE police/secret service presence that was obviously there, but mainly to the mood. It's the first good news that everyday people in the US have had in a long, long time. It was just one day out of many, where people enjoyed the moment, the hope, the inauguration itself, the promise of the new administration, and a feel-good moment. We all know the glow won't last forever, but why not bask in it and enjoy a great moment in history. Even if you voted for the other candidate, you still have to admit that it was a truly great day for African Americans and ALL Americans to see democracy work right for a change, instead of being fixed and rigged. It was truly a magical day that many in this country, Repub or Dem, will remember for a lifetime.
Our economy is related to world economics
which IS part of foreign policy. Geez, can't get your head around that?
You related to Michael Moore? You twist
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The Federal Reserve is not government related....
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typo - meant cite things as hoax, not "site" things
Just thought I'd correct that before I get pummeled by the people who want to believe snopes is a truthful organization.
She made it seem as though religion is inappropriate on this board as related to politics (sm)
and that she was sick of hearing about religion. I am sick of hearing about racism.
My mom died of obesity-related diabetes. I hope we tax food out of
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And perhaps in a related story: Enron Witness Found Dead In Park
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5173228.stm
Enron witness found dead in park A body found in north-east London has been identified as that of a banker who was questioned by the FBI about the Enron fraud case.
Police said they were treating the death in Chingford of Neil Coulbeck, who worked for the Royal Bank of Scotland until 2004, as unexplained.
He had been interviewed by the FBI as a potential witness.
Three ex-workers of RBS subsidiary NatWest are being extradited to the US on Thursday to face fraud charges.
The extradition has sparked a political row, with opposition parties and human rights groups claiming the treaty under which they are being sent to the US is one-sided as the Americans are yet to ratify it.
'Highly regarded'
Prime Minister Tony Blair has rejected calls to renegotiate the extradition terms.
Mr Coulbeck's body was found in a park near Newgate Street, Chingford, on Tuesday.
Mr Coulbeck's wife had reported him missing last Thursday. Police have yet to formally identify the body, which was removed from the parkland on Wednesday afternoon.
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One day when this is all over I'm going to be coming home to my wife and children and some poor guy is not
David Bermingham
Former NatWest banker
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Mr Coulbeck had worked at the Royal Bank of Scotland until 2004, most recently as head of group treasury, the bank confirmed.
Neil was highly regarded by his colleagues here in RBS and was a respected, capable and hard working member of our senior management team.
The fraud case centres on a NatWest transaction under which it sold off part of its Enron unit.
RBS said: There is no evidence that Mr Coulbeck was involved in the approval of the transaction under investigation.
RBS has co-operated fully with all the appropriate authorities and made them fully aware of all the relevant facts in our possession.
The FBI said it would not comment while the case was ongoing.
'Appalling'
One of the so-called NatWest three, David Bermingham, said he had been knocked sideways by the news of Mr Coulbeck's death.
It is awful, appalling. One day when this is all over I'm going to be coming home to my wife and children and some poor guy is not and my heart goes out to his wife and family, he said.
He described Mr Coulbeck as a superstar, a thoroughly decent, honest professional guy and a very experienced banker.
Mr Coulbeck was among NatWest staff who made witness statements about the extradition, Mr Bermingham, of Goring, Berkshire, said.
Neil's statement was no more than a page and a half saying who he was and his role, he said.
Fellow accused Giles Darby, speaking from his home in Lower Wraxall, Somerset, said he was absolutely shocked by the death.
It's an utter tragedy. I'm struggling to take it in, really.
Of course, my thoughts are now with Neil's family and friends.
In 2002, US prosecutors issued arrest warrants for the three men, accusing them of conspiring to defraud their employers and investors in energy giant Enron, which had collapsed a year earlier.
It is alleged that the three British bankers - Mr Bermingham, Gary Mulgrew and Mr Darby - advised their employer Greenwich NatWest to sell off its stake in an Enron unit at well below its market value.
MPs' protest
They then left the bank and purchased a $250,000 (£135,000) stake in the unit - which they sold on at a much higher price, making a profit of $7.3m (£3.9m).
They deny any wrongdoing.
Their extradition was debated by MPs in an emergency session of Commons on Wednesday.
After a three-hour debate they voted by a majority of 242 to adjourn the Commons early in symbolic protest at the government's extradition arrangements.
On Tuesday, peers had voted in favour of suspending extradition agreements with the US until the UK-US treated had been ratified there.
The whole country would crash and burn. Do you know how many jobs in Michigan alone are auto related
Michigan might as well hang a sign on the door saying last one out, turn out the lights. But then if Obama has his way, we won't have any electricity either because the coal companies will be bankrupted too. Domino effect in my opinion.
Faith. sm
There was a poster on this board not too long ago of the Jewish faith. He was here to discuss the situation in Israel. He was hounded from this board ruthlessly. And not by conservatives.
Faith
I am not here to discuss Israel, just replying to an abortion post. I really don't care if I am hounded by anyone. Happens all the time :-)
I have faith
and am not ashamed to express it. Seems to me democrates place their hand on the bible just like rebublicans when taking the oath of office. Do you wonder about that too?
I think it does but I do have faith there are
good people out there too like you. So thank you for saying that. I tune in to CNN a lot of it has come up a few times that it matters. It is just depressing to me that it does still matter.
take care.
Keep the faith. No one knows what is going,,,sm
to happen with the economy or in the world over the next few months. At least we have a glimmer of hope with Obama.
Got that right, but keep the faith.
we can get through anything. We will come out in a much better place if we simply get our collective acts together and realize that change is coming (and I DON'T mean the campaign slogan) because it has to. WE have a choice. We can take charge of the situation and face those challenges as a united front or stay sidelined and wait for our leaders to show us the way. Clearly, I know which side of that decision I come down on.
According to your faith...(sm)
Christians were at one point persecuted, and they pushed and pushed until they got their way. I guess it was okay to do that back then.
Yes, I am very derogatory about faith. sm
Thank you for noticing. Let me respond.
You wrote:
>>yet I think it takes much more "faith" in a ridiculous theory that a one-cell amoeba crawled out of a mucky ocean somewhere and through "evolution" became man. You can't "prove" that, scientists can't "prove" that, but you believe it...because somebody said and it wrote it down...sound like the Bible? lol. That too is "faith." >>
Well, first of all you're mistaken. Scientists can prove evolution and have. The only people left still trying to deny evolution are doing so because it challenges or threatens their religious beliefs. For the rest of the world it's clear there is overwhelming evidence for biologic evolution and natural selection as the way that life developed and continues to develop (or become extinct...) on Earth. Please, read up on it. Fossils. Dinosaurs. It's facinating.
Note that I'm not talking about the *origin* of life, about how it all get started. Neither science or religion can answer that question. Religion says God made everything but it doesn't answer the question of who or what made God. And evolution doesn't answer the question of how the universe and our planet came to exist in the first place, just how life evolved here on Earth. (Though I think it's entirely possible science will eventually be able to answer this question.)
Second, what you wrote is not a valid arguement because religion and science are not on equal footing. They're two completely different things. You're trying to compare apples and oranges. Let me give you a nice long quote from one of my favorite authors, Richard Dawkins (which should come as no surprise to you) because he explains it far more eloquently than I can:
'(Religious) fundamentalists know they are right because they have read the truth in a holy book and they know, in advance, that nothing will budge them from their belief. The truth of the holy book is an axiom, not the end product of a process of reasoning. The book is true, and if the evidence seems to contradict it, it is the evidence that must be thrown out, not the book. By contrast, what I, as a scientist, believe (for example, evolution) I believe not because of reading a holy book but because I have studied the evidence. It really is a very different matter. Books about evolution are believed not because they are holy. They are believed because they present overwhelming quantities of mutually buttressed evidence. In principle, any reader can go and check that evidence. When a science book is wrong, somebody eventually discovers the mistake and it is corrected in subsequent books. That conspicuously doesn't happen with holy books.'
Now to your next question:
>>And I do not understand why you have to protest against something so strongly that you feel does not exist. Why would you bother? Why does someone having a life-changing experience bother you so much?>>
The part that bothered me was not someone having a life-changing experience. What bothers me is religion. I should think that was clear. What irritated me was the comment made in the post about athiests. It was an opinion presented as fact. That irritated me enough to cause me to respond. (BTW, did you read the whole thread, or just that part? We were talking about the bible.)
You also asked why I would bother to protest about something I don't believe exists. Are you kidding me? Look at the board we're on. It's a political board. I don't believe God exists, but religion sure does and I don't want its influence in our government. I don't have time to list all the reasons I have for protesting, but that's probably the biggest - the fact that I don't want to live in a theocracy. I don't want a president who believes God talks to him and tells him what to do, for example. I want religion to stay out of our goverment, at every level. This country is not only about freedom OF regligion, it's about freedom FROM religion.
I SO agree and we are not of the same faith
I do not think Chronicles is in my bible - I have to go check that....but regardless, I totally agree with you. It says in my bible something like when chyt hits fan, it's gonna happen from the inside out.....this, to me, would be IT. I'm so not voting for him......nothign really against him, per se, but he's saying he's gonna fix every single problem in the USA - well, our economy sux....so where is the money coming from? Rhetorical question bears no answer - because it's going to come from us. Another thing - he does not have the amount of experience (governmental and the rest of it) for me to be comfortable with him as president. he ain't no JFK who came from a HUGE heavy background of experience(s). No offense meant to anyone but personally, I hope he loses - and Michelle said a month ago or two, *we are only going to do this once, and if we don't win, we are not going through this again* - I'm so praying for that to occur. y opinion, please no flames.....to each his/her own about who they want in office. 
I'd prefer someone than anyone who was running for this....but that's not gonna happen, unfortunately!!
We shall see. I never put much faith in blogs...
but, perhaps those who go to Obama will be replaced by those who come to McCain from the other side. Sorry...nothing will dampen this for me today. :)
I person of faith
who pubically ridiculed the Bible in a speech. A man who has sketchy associations. A man who attended a school in Indonesia were his school records list his religion as muslim and yet he denies ever being a muslim. A man who allowed his children to be baptized and attend a church where the pastor preached hate messages. A man who supports partial birth abortions......
Please excuse me while I vomit!
Isn't that what's known as 'blind faith'?
*
Blind faith.....
In a way it is. I have faith that God is there for me. That doesn't mean things are sugar and honey all the time, because they're definitely not.
Jesus ask of to just have the faith of a mustard seed. He is asking us to have no more faith than that of the size of a mustard seed, which is meniscule, and you will be surprised where that will take you. You know, we are asked to ask questions of God, to seek him, and ask Him to prove Himself. What better way for God to show us his love than to ask Him to prove himself?
You might just see great things happen in your life.
Having respect for faith all around?
I do. Faith and religion, two different things. I respect everyone's right to pray. I just don't think it should be made into a political issue like it has been done on this board. If it was truly a prayer request, why wasn't it on the prayer request board and the faith board?
I too do not put much faith in polls.
Did these polls have John Kerry ahead at this time during the last election. They also showed the Nixon was ahead of Kennedy. We will find out when we find out. Just go vote for who you think is best and hope for the best.
Who put faith in what government?
Who put faith in what government? I for one put NO faith in Bush from day one....he was a disastrous governor in the Lone Star, and I knew by the time he got finished with America and Americans, that we would barely be able to recognize it. You are right. The shrub did inherit at least something he should have been able to work with, but evidently it was beneath his pay grade to pay attention to such things since he had wars to wage.
Obama wants to restore a little balance...another thing the shrub monkeyed around with...especially his notorious distain for judicial powers and addiction to executive privilege. We need to take out that generic "government" reference and replace it with republicans failed us. The more power they get, the more they will fail us. Voters get that now.
Why are you lying? Obama wants stricter gun controls. He cannot take your precious guns away from you without a constitutional amendment. Defend yourselves against what? You really are a paranoid bunch, aren't you? Uh, oh....your argument just fell apart. So I ask again, can anybody explain Reagan's rambling incoherence?
Oh ye of little faith. Go to the top of the page.
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Right. Why cant he have faith in the people rather
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THIS IS NOT THE FAITH BOARD.
This is the POLITICS BOARD.
And those of different faith are probably praying
Everyone, regardless of their personal religious beliefs, is worshipping the "true" God, the one that is "true and living" to them.
No religion is better or "truer" and more "living" than another.
Your creator is "true and living" to you. Someone else's creator might be just as "true and living" to them.
No, it's called faith
and you really have to have an open mind for that. ;-)
I actually don't really care what his faith is...
and I don't care whether or not he carries on an 8 year tradition--that is between him and his God. What I don't understand is why the big announcement. If you don't care to do it, don't do it, but why make a big deal of announcing that you don't care to hold a prayer. It is almost as silly as making a big deal about eating at a burger joint.
you are still placing faith in what you sm
have done and not the finished work of Christ on the cross. You are not your own "god" which is where you are placing yourself. If you have not accepted Jesus as your Savior you will be told "depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you."
The "christian religions" that have rejected the teachings of he** will also be held to account. Again its not about religion but about salvation which is contained in the Bible, the Holy, innerrent word of God.
I pray you reconsider.
You don't know me or my faith - so don't assume
And looks like the saying is true about people who assume things.
Please see faith board....nm
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