Thousands may have been dead at the hands of Saddam anyway, what with
Posted By: his love of death and torture. nm on 2005-07-09
In Reply to: Totally agree. - DixieDew
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tens of thousands dead
and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's and 1,744+ brave American soldiers are dead. So..lets see here..Saddam was responsible for killing thousands and Bush is responsible for killing tens of thousands.hmmm..hey, are Bush and Saddam brothers separated at birth..two fools with a thirst for blood? Seems like they are both war criminals. Saddam thumbs his nose at the world community and does what he wants..Bush thumbs his nose at the world community, the International Court of Justice and Geneva Convention and does what he wants..hmmm..they gotta be brothers, well, at least blood brothers.
It's better off dead than dead AND rude and OBNOXIOUS.
Please respect the monitor's rules, even though you think they're stupid.
What about the thousands of men and women
who lost their lives in that "mistake" that Bush made. Maybe that should be in that post too. I bet their families feel like they had plenty of courage.
There were thousands of voters........ sm
who voted in this election who were not informed or educated on the issues or the candidates. I don't see much of a difference, do you?
seems to me thousands spoke this weekend
Seems to me most of the country takes Cindy Sheehan seriously and are behind her 100%. This weekends protests in DC, CA, NY, Ohio and other states prove it..When you look at the anti war protests compared to the pro war protests, tells you what the majority of the country wants..ending of the Iraq war.
The ten's of thousands not covered by media
Perhaps that's why they declared open season on reporters who tried to get the truth out, especially about the heavy-handed police gestapo tactics, all too common in a post 9/11 Patriot Act world (where misdemeanors are ratcheted up to charges of terrorism), riddled with politics of fear and being promoted inside the convention hall.
unless you are talking thousands of friends,
I don't think your sample is statistically significant. Obama has led in the polls except for one week for the entire season. Once the Palin myth was unmasked, Obama bounced right back up. Never in the history of the any country anywhere has someone sustained such a lengthy lead and then went on to lose (if you don't count the last election's fraud).
No doubt there will be thousands more excuses
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What about the thousands that died in WWII to
keep us free from the nazi regime/communism? What about the Korean War? They died, too, to keep communism from spreading.
Viet Nam was another story. They died and people here were so outspoken about it (just like it is happening now), and that it brought the moral of the tropps down. When our president pulled them out so quick, all he-- broke out. The Viet Cong and Cambodia armies slaughtered thousands.
Those fighting now mostly support and believe in what they are doing. If the troops are pulled out as quick as O wants, the same thing may happen there. This is why they are trying to get Iraq's military and police set up so another Viet Nam will not happen. Support our troops.
I defend anyone who tried to save thousands of
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Bush lied and thousands died!
Reaping the rewards.
torture,-if waterboarding can save thousands of
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So, we should sit on our hands
So, even though we feel very strongly about something (and my group includes several Vietnam and other veterans), we should sit on our hands and keep our mouth shut until after the damage is already done? Not too effective if you ask me.
People gathering together in protest have brought a lot of positive changes to this country, and I will continue to exercise my right, respectfully, as long as I feel it is necessary.
The book of Revelations was written thousands of years ago.
Why do you think it pertains in any way to our time and not to the time in which it was written? Why do people think it is some sort of prophecy for their particular lifetime? Does no one study the history of the bible anymore? I am so saddened and appalled by the lack of theological and historical education in churches. If people don't even understand the documents of their own faiths,then there is never any hope for understand people of another faith.
And put in the hands of government?
No thanks. Every time government manages social programs it fails miserably.
The (unregulated) free market is the best way to handle health care another other things.
The problem now is government has their hands too much into the pot with regulation via the insurance companies. You think it's bad now wait until the government has sole control.
You have too much time on your hands....nm
nm
Really does have too much time on their hands, yes.
nm
wash your hands after that
little episode before you respond.
Thousands show up to protest at UN today urging end to war Iraq.
Reuters: By Gertrude Chavez-Dreyfuss
NEW YORK, Sept 19 (Reuters) - Thousands of protesters including former American soldiers rallied outside U.N. headquarters on Tuesday, urging the U.S. government to end the war in Iraq and bring home the troops.
Nearby, about 200 other protesters demonstrated against the presence of the Iranian president, others called for human rights in Myanmar, and just a handful demonstrated to press claims the United States orchestrated the Sept. 11 attacks.
While world leaders gathered at the U.N. General Assembly inside, about 2,000 anti-Iraq war protesters chanted Peace can work, no more war half an hour before U.S. President George W. Bush spoke.
This war has drained the economy and has cost a lot of lives, said Claire Thompson, a nurse and union leader. We're calling on our leaders to end this unsustainable war and just bring the troops back home.
There have been 2,681 U.S. military deaths since the Iraq war began in March 2003, according to Pentagon figures, and 147,000 U.S. troops are serving there. At least tens of thousands of Iraqis also have died in the war.
People in Iraq also want to end the war. We want our country back, said Raed Jarrar, an Iraqi-American who moved to the United States last year.
Iranian-Americans rallied outside the U.N. headquarters, protesting the presence of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at the General Assembly.
I am outraged by the presence of Iran at the U.N. general assembly. I think Ahmadinejad's actions and statements are pushing Iran to war, said Shirin Narunan, a leader of the Ad Hoc Committee to Stop Iran's Nuclear Weapons.
Iran, saying its nuclear program is for civilian purposes, has declined to suspend its uranium enrichment program despite U.N. Security Council demands to do so.
Burmese pro-democracy activists demanded the dissolution of the country's pro-junta organization, the Union Solidarity and Development Association, and the release of opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi who has been in prison since 1990.
A group of protesters claimed that the U.S. government orchestrated the attacks on Sept. 11. Les Jamison, an event coordinator of NY 911 Truth, said the 9/11 tragedy was scripted by the U.S. government to regain military might.
So the thousands getting laid off weekly are to blame for losing their homes???? nm
1
His hands were shaking like a leaf...sm
I was surprised because Bill is usually tough and takes his guests to task.
From my take, there was no denigrating of his nephew's service anymore than anyone else who speaks out against the war. Bill was the one who brought up his nephew's service and threw a fit about it as if his nephew was being singled out by Donahue when he said have your (Bills) children go fight in this illegal war.
I think Bill was just all shook up from being called Billy and Donahue screaming as loud as he was. That part was a joke to me. Thought they were going to bring out the boxing gloves and start round 2. Still LMBO about that.
Sheesh! You have way too much time on your hands!
why are you saying obama's blood will be on my hands
his blood will be just as much on your hand's and gourdpainter's as mine. you don't even know who i am. how dare you blame me for anything when you don't even know me.
No it means you have too much time on your hands..sm
just like the Sarah haters...wait, that's probably you too....never mind
Nope, she's right. He won that population hands down
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Dems had hands tied........
due to the fact that they did not have a filibuster proof congress. GWB - Jesus Christ in the Flesh - wielded the mighty veto pen - lick his boots - he is the REAL messiah.
YES, that way we could sit on our hands while Rome burns!
That makes sooo much sense. Gosh, wish I had thought of it. Maybe we can put a voo-doo curse on him and he'll disappear? Then the REAL cowboys can come in and sit on their arses and save the day, right? What's your plan for an ideal stimulus or perhaps just tax cuts for the big corporations is the best plan?
Right - LOL Guess she wanted one for both hands.
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Obama Plan Jeopardizes Thousands of Coal Jobs/his words
![](http://images.afa.net/onnnewsalert.jpg") |
Obama Plan Jeopardizes Thousands of Coal Jobs
Fred Jackson - OneNewsNow.com - 11/3/2008 7:35:00 AM
The nation's coal industry is in shock today with word that Barack Obama plans to put such severe penalties on coal-fired power plants that it will bankrupt them. A coalition of business leaders says such a move would jeopardize the jobs of hundreds of thousands of people who work in the coal industry.
Senator Obama's plan for putting severe financial penalties on coal-fired power plants has been made public on a YouTube video which contains audio of comments he made in San Francisco in January 2008.
"What I've said is that we would put a cap-and-trade system in place that is as aggressive, if not more aggressive, than anybody else's out there," the Democratic presidential candidate said. "I was the first to call for a hundred-percent auction on the cap-and-trade system, which means that every unit of carbon or greenhouse gases that was emitted would be charged to the polluter. That will create a market in which whatever technologies are out there that are being presented, whatever power plants that are being built, that they would have to meet the rigors of that market and the ratcheted-down caps that are imposed every year.
"So if somebody wants to build a coal power plant, they can," Obama concluded. "It's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greeenhouse gas that's being emitted."
A press release from the Western Business Roundtable is calling on politicians of all stripes to denounce such a plan, and encouraging voters to hold those politicans accountable for whether they support the coal industry.
Below is the actual audio - click to listen.
!["](http://images.afa.net/onnd_obamacoal.jpg")
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Palin wins hands down 73% to Biden 25%
Way to go Gov. Palin! Bright, confident, knowlegeable, cheerful, intelligent, aware of what's gone wrong with our economy and how to fix it, knows foreign politics, knows the voting records of Obama, Biden & McCain. Knows how to help the every day americans get ahead in life. Smart on education, highly intelligent about being energy independent. Knows that America needs to take back Washington and make it work for us and knows how to get it done. Already has the experience of being governor. Anyone notice that whenever she said that Obama/Biden would raise your taxes Biden never said disagreed. Gov. Palin connects with everyone and that will come out. Biden made at least 6 mistatements tonight and I think Americans will see that Obama/Biden will say anything thinking they'll get people's votes. I'm waiting for them to come out with Clinton's old line "I feel your pain".
Gov. Sarah Palin is going to be very good as Vice President Sarah Palin. I can't wait! 
And all hold hands and sing kumbaya....
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It wasn't campaign donations that paid for thousands of dollars in kids' travel
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Oh...forum domination. Someone holding your hands behind your back....
and preventing you from posting? Or don't you have a cause you care enough about TO post?
trust me...you're playing right into the media's hands.....sm
thinking exactly what they want you to think about her.
Doesn't surprise me a bit.
Low class, hands out, gimme my share, I'm too lazy
to do it on my own crowd. The first ones to want it all given to them and the last ones who want to work for it. Of course they would boo the man in a wheelchair, never taught how to behave around respectable people.
Low class, hands out, gimme my share, I'm too lazy
to do it on my own crowd. The first ones to want it all given to them and the last ones who want to work for it. Of course they would boo the man in a wheelchair, never taught how to behave with respectable people.
Saddam US friend
Six months after the gassing of Kurds in 1988, the White House lent Saddam a billion dollars. In 1991, at the end of the Gulf War, US troops stood idly by while Saddam's presidential guards ruthlessly suppressed the uprising by the Kurds that Poppy Bush encouraged and had called for. In 1980, Saddam was made an honorary citizen of Detroit, Michigan. He was our friend back then, even though we knew his blood thirsty ways. We even supplied him with WMD, which we then destroyed with fly over bombing through the 1990's with sanctions placed on the country to weaken it even more. We also were friends with Osama in the 1970's when we had him and Afghan freedom fighters fight against Russia as we did not want Russia to have control of Afghanistan. In essence, Osama was trained by our CIA for war.
Saddam v. Bush
I agree 100%, especially after watching those videos you so kindly supplied.
We all know how terrible Saddam is. It almost hurts to write that an American president could be worse. He obviously doesn't personally care how many Americans and Iraqis he's killing over there. He doesn't care that he's created a huge deficit that didn't exist before he showed up. I thought Republicans were supposed to be in favor of no deficits and less government. He cares more about stem cells that are about to be thrown in the garbage than he does about living, breathing human Americans who are already here.
He's abrasive and arrogant, and I actually feel sorry for Tony Blair, who I think has stayed with Bush out of a sense of intense loyalty to America. Bush has put Blair's career on shaky ground.
As far as war crimes, it isn't over yet. This whole war might be deemed to be illegal. Wouldn't surprise me one bit. That is, if we all live long enough to see it and aren't killed first by terrorists as a result of his neglect in securing his own country.
Seems to me if there's a WMD anywhere, it's in Crawford, and it's George W. Bush.
Hitler vs Saddam
I remember the stories as a young girl about Saddam throwing babies up in the air and shoting them as they fall. This was during Bush Sr.'s term. There is no doubt in my mind that he was tyrannical and murderous, but from what I understand the mass murderings, chemical genocide in Iraq happened in the 80's and early 90's. The threat of the Gulf War and UN sanctioning (and I know if it's failures)had pretty much tight gripped the dictator. There was no immediate humanitarian need for action in 2003 I'm aware of.
Hitler had a well publicized plan and factory like set up to eliminate the Jews. There was an immediate need to stop him.
Saddam Hussein set the example
of how the UN's ''stern warnings'' are to be regarded. One simply ignores them and does as one wishes. In time, a ''sterner warning'' is issued, which one pays no attention to, etc. This can go on for years, the warnings becoming more and more urgent, the UN doing nothing about the situation, except hold meetings, blather and warn and sanction. The difference? Oh, NK now has nuclear weapons. Give them several years' worth of warnings and their nuclear program should progress very nicely. They may actually be able to hit something with a missile eventually.
Biden is the biggest fool out there this campaign, wins hands down.nm
Remember Bush holding hands with Prince Abdullah???
So as far as reading anything into Obama trying to get our nation back on the right track, thank God what was here before no longer around.
Yeah, Saddam was such a little angel then
not causing a lick of problem for his people and the world. The 1990's was when he was testing chemical weapons on his OWN PEOPLE. Yep, things were just hunky dorey. Clinton was having oral sex in the oval office, and life was just one big orgy.
You mean, Bush's patience ran out with Saddam after 9/11.
Like I said, I can live in a post-Saddam world just fine, but I don't think it was America's place to invade that country and impose democracy on those people.
Basically, only the Kurds had the courage to stand up to Saddam. What are they going to do when we leave? We shouldn't be the protectors of the Iraqi people. It's not fair to Africa and all of the others who are living under brutal dictators.
Should we start sending America's troops to protect and save everyone who is living under a brutal dictator? I don't think we can.
Arabs Split Over Saddam
Arabs Split Over Saddam |
Wednesday, October 19, 2005 
CAIRO, Egypt — Across the Arab world, some watched intently as Saddam Hussein (search) went on trial Wednesday for crimes against Iraqis but others seemed not to care — a sign the former Iraqi leader still divides this region two years after his fall.
The region's influential satellite television networks, Al-Jazeera (search) and Al-Arabiya (search), carried nonstop coverage starting hours before the trial began. Pan-Arab dailies like al-Hayat also splashed the opening day on their front pages.
But Saudi Arabia's Arabic language-daily Al-Watan used the headline: Saddam's Trial: No one cares and added: The curtains have opened, the cast is ready and the audience is busy with other issues ... Even if we concede that the majority of Iraqis hate Saddam, they also hate how things have developed.
Yet in Kuwait, which Saddam invaded in 1990, feelings in support of the trial ran strong.
We have been waiting for this trial for a long time — not only us, but the Iraqi people and Iranian people as well. We say this is the end of every oppressor, said Omar Al-Murad, a 43-year-old architect.
Many Palestinians also watched closely, but with the opposite view.
Weal Naser, a 42-year-old Palestinian owner of a Gaza vegetable shop, said Palestinians can never forget Saddam's past support for their cause. At the start of the Palestinian uprising against Israel, Saddam paid $15,000 to families of Palestinian suicide bombers, later raising it to $25,000.
He supported the martyrs' families and he helped many students in Palestine or during their studies in Iraq, he said.
Saddam is paying now the price for being a hero, for saying 'No' to America and to (President) Bush, Naser said.
If the world wants justice, as they claim, they should bring Bush and (Israeli Prime Minister Ariel) Sharon to trial before Saddam.
Palestinian taxi driver Saed Souror, 32, was more ambivalent about Saddam but equally critical of the trial.
I am not a Saddam supporter, but I am against this trial because it came upon American orders, Souror said. If Saddam was a murderer, what can we call the American acts there?
Egypt's state-owned press chose to mostly ignore the trial, with a few carrying small stories inside but none putting it on the front page.
Jordan's media reported on Saddam's trial but provided no independent commentary or analysis, apparently to avoid stirring public anger already high because of opposition to the U.S. invasion.
A columnist in respected pan-Arab newspaper Asharq Al-Awsat said the trial has lost much of its meaning because of the bloody insurgency that now attacks Iraqis daily. Some of the worst terror attacks are blamed on al-Qaida in Iraq, led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
It should have been held when Iraqis' memory was full of images of humiliation and that of tens of thousands of the victims and handicapped of the wars, Lebanese columnist Samir Attallah wrote.
Instead, he added: Al-Zarqawi has erased from the minds and hearts all the past horrors. Innocent Iraqis used to die in prison and in their homes, now the occupation resistance is killing the Iraqi innocents and their children in the streets.
In Dubai, the Gulf News paper said in an editorial that not just Saddam, but Iraq itself is on trial, to see whether its new government can rise to the occasion and give Saddam a fair hearing.
Anything less will be a permanent scar upon Iraq and its future, the paper said. |
So you think the genocidal Saddam changed
That's the real question here. Have you listened to his tirades during his circus of a trial? Anyone who believed Saddam changed from being mentally unstable genocidal megalomanic while still the dictator of Iraq has to be the most naive person on Earth. Because he is demonstrating in court that he's still a megalomanic. The U.N. gave them adequate time to straighten up and fly right, and as you know the U.N. is having major corruption problems, so any agreements we have with them are shaky at best. You are right on one statement. The war in Iraq was wayyyy overdue.
There were no terrorists in Iraq... Saddam would not have
allowed anyone other than himself to be the terror! He would have had their heads if they were amassing there as he had TOTAL control of who and what was in his country. He also kept his peoples: the Sunis, the Shiites, and the Kurds on track. He would have never let a civil war happen. As stated, he had total control, now we have unleashed, and helped to create more, infidels.
Saddam's in his final hours....sm
By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - The official witnesses to Saddam Hussein's impending execution gathered Friday in Baghdad's fortified Green Zone in final preparation for his hanging, as state television broadcast footage of his regime's atrocities.
With U.S. forces on high alert for a surge in violence, the Iraqi government readied all the necessary documents, including a red card - an execution order introduced during Saddam's dictatorship. As the hour of his death approached, Saddam received two of his half brothers in his cell on Thursday and was said to have given them his personal belongings and a copy of his will.
Najeeb al-Nueimi, a member of Saddam's legal team in Doha, Qatar, said he too requested a final meeting with the deposed Iraqi leader. His daughter in Amman was crying, she said 'Take me with you,' al-Nueimi said late Friday. But he said their request was rejected.
An adviser to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Saddam would be executed before 6 a.m. Saturday, or 10 p.m. Friday EST. Also to be hanged at that time were Saddam's half-brother Barzan Ibrahim and Awad Hamed al-Bandar, the former chief justice of the Revolutionary Court, the adviser said.
The time was agreed upon during a meeting Friday between U.S. and Iraqi officials, said the adviser, who declined to be named because he is not authorized to speak to the media.
Saddam will be handed over shortly before the execution, the official said. The physical transfer of Saddam from U.S. to Iraqi authorities was believed to be one of the last steps before he was to be hanged. Saddam has been in U.S. custody since he was captured in December 2003.
Al-Nueimi said U.S. authorities were maintaining physical custody of Saddam to prevent him from being humiliated before his execution. He said the Americans also want to prevent the mutilation of his corpse, as has happened to other deposed Iraqi leaders.
The Americans want him to be hanged respectfully, al-Nueimi said. If Saddam is humiliated publicly or his corpse ill-treated that could cause an uprising and the Americans would be blamed, he said.
Munir Haddad, a judge on the appeals court that upheld Saddam's death sentence, said he was ready to attend the hanging and that all the paperwork was in order, including the red card.
All the measures have been done, Haddad said. There is no reason for delays.
As American and Iraqi officials met in Baghdad to set the hour of his death, Saddam's lawyers asked a U.S. judge for a stay of execution.
Saddam's lawyers issued a statement Friday calling on everybody to do everything to stop this unfair execution. The statement also said the former president had been transferred from U.S. custody, though American and Iraqi officials later denied that.
Al-Maliki said opposing Saddam's execution was an insult to his victims. His office said he made the remarks in a meeting with families of people who died during Saddam's rule.
Our respect for human rights requires us to execute him, and there will be no review or delay in carrying out the sentence, al-Maliki said.
State television ran footage of the Saddam era's atrocities, including images of uniformed men placing a bomb next to a youth's chest and blowing him up in what looked like a desert, and handcuffed men being thrown from a high building.
About 10 people registered to attend the hanging gathered in the Green Zone before they were to go to the execution site, the Iraqi official said.
Those cleared to attend the execution included a Muslim cleric, lawmakers, senior officials and relatives of victims of Saddam's brutal rule, the official said. He did not disclose the location of the gallows.
Raed Juhi, spokesman for the High Tribunal court that convicted Saddam, said documents related to the execution would be read to Saddam before the execution. The documents included the red card, al-Maliki's signed approval of the sentence and the appeal court's decision.
On Thursday, two half brothers visited Saddam in his cell, a member of the former dictator's defense team, Badee Izzat Aref, told The Associated Press by telephone from the United Arab Emirates. He said the former dictator handed them his personal belongings.
A senior official at the Iraqi defense ministry also confirmed the meeting and said Saddam gave his will to one of his half brothers. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.
Saddam's lawyers later issued a statement saying the Americans gave permission for his belongings to be retrieved.
An Iraqi appeals court upheld Saddam's death sentence Tuesday for the killing of 148 people who were detained after an attempt to assassinate him in the northern Iraqi city of Dujail in 1982. The court said the hanging should take place within 30 days.
There had been disagreements among Iraqi officials in recent days as to whether Iraqi law dictates the execution must take place within 30 days and whether President Jalal Talabani and his two deputies had to approve it.
In his Friday sermon, a mosque preacher in the Shiite holy city of Najaf called Saddam's execution God's gift to Iraqis.
Oh, God, you know what Saddam has done! He killed millions of Iraqis in prisons, in wars with neighboring countries and he is responsible for mass graves, said Sheik Sadralddin al-Qubanji, a member of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, known as SCIRI, a dominant party in al-Maliki's coalition. Oh God, we ask you to take revenge on Saddam.
Saddam Hussein would provide anyone...
with anything if he thought it would be used to help bring down the United States and would make a "deal with the devil" (Al Qaeda) in order to attack the US, and I think anyone who thought differently would be disingenuous to say the least. Mortal enemies are often joined together by their hatred of some other entity....in this case of the United States, and Americans.
As to the 18 generals lined up behind Obama...what about the hundreds not lined up with him?
We will definitely disagree on this one.
Have a good night.
I wonder why he never threw his shoes at Saddam!
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I know my history of the region. The land of Israel is the hands of its rightful owners.
The Palestinians have been given the opportunity in 1947 when the UN granted a mandate separating the land into two states. The palestinians rejected the mandate and launched a civil war that Israel quickly won and declared their independence. Then in 1948 Israel was invaded by Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan which Israel one as well. The palestinians were given their chance and decided on violence instead and they were the losers. That's how it cookie crumbles.
In 1973 once again Israel's angry neighbors tried to invade, the Yom Kippur war. Israel was winning that one too when a cease fire was called. The palestinians lost fair and square. They could peacefully have coexisted with the Israeli's but they continually reject any peaceful solution and send their suicide bombers. Let's not forge the Oslo Peace Process in the early 1990s where Israeli government once again extended the olive branch agreeing to the PLO to form an autonomous government if they could agree to coexist with Israel and recognize Israel's right to exist. The palestinians answer? To laung Intifada II against the Israelis. Once again, more violence perpetrated by the palestinians.
Finally, what about the Sharon's disengagement plan implemented in 2005? Israeli government removed civilian and military presence from the Gaza Strip as a gesture to the palestinians so they could no longer claim that Gaza was an occupied" territory. Even after that gesture, the palestinians have refused to recognize Israel.
The palestinians do not want peace with the Israelis. They will settle for no less than the total annihilation of Israel as a nation which is the what the entire Arab world wants.
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