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This happened not so long ago

Posted By: another? on 2009-02-24
In Reply to: Man being sued for protecting - sm

To another rancher. I believe that was in Texas. They actually won. They own his land now, a guy and his sister if I remember correctly. Not a small parcel either. I think this was 4 or 5 years ago. Will have to see if I can find it.


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Fact Check. Katrina: What Happened When (long article)
Katrina: What Happened When

It will take months to get the full story, but meanwhile here are some of the key facts about what happened and when officials acted.


September 16, 2005



Summary



 


Multiple investigations are likely into the response by federal, state, and local officials to the disastrous flooding of New Orleans from Hurricane Katrina.  New facts are still emerging, and we expect it will be months or years before a full picture can be properly assessed.


In response to numerous requests, we present here a brief timeline of events, as best as we can document them from public records and the best news reporting from the scene. We do not blame or excuse anyone, and leave it to others to judge what, if anything, could or should have been done differently. All times are converted to Central Daylight Time.



Analysis



 


July 23, 2004 - 13 Months Before Katrina


The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) conducts Hurricane Pam exercise to assess results of a theoretical Category 3 hurricane. It assumes that a storm with 120-mph winds would force Lake Pontchartrain's waters over the tops of the New Orleans' 17.5-foot levees and through a gap in the levee system would flood major portions of the city and would damage up to 87 percent of the city's homes. The Times-Picayune reports that officials expect up to half the city's residents won't evacuate and that many will be trapped in attics, on rooftops, and in makeshift shelters for days.


—In Case of Emergency, New Orleans Times-Picayune, as posted  on the website of the Louisiana Homeland Security & Emergency Preparedness, 20 Jul 2004.


Friday, Aug 26 2005 - 3 Days Prior to Katrina's Louisiana Landfall


Hurricane Katrina strikes Florida between Hallandale Beach and North Miami Beach as a Category 1 hurricane with 80 mph winds.  Eleven people die from hurricane-related causes.


—A chronology of Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath, Associated Press, 3 Sep 2005.


The storm heads into the Gulf of Mexico and by 10:30 am CDT is reported to be rapidly strengthening.


—Hurricane Katrina Special Advisory Number 13 , National Hurricane Center, 26 Aug 2005.


Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco declares a State of Emergency in Louisiana.


—Governor Blanco Declares State of Emergency,  Louisiana Governor's Office, 26 Aug 2005.


Saturday, Aug 27 2005 - 2 Days Prior


Blanco asks President Bush to declare a State of Emergency for the state of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina.  Bush does so, authorizing the Department of Homeland Security and FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts… and freeing up federal money for the state.


—Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina,  Louisiana Governor's Office , 27 Aug 2005.    


Statement on federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana, Office of the White House Press Secretary, 27 Aug 2005.


Katrina is a Category 3 storm, predicted to become Category 4. At 4pm CDT, it is still 380 miles from the mouth of the Mississippi.


—Hurricane Katrina Special Advisory Number  18,  National Hurricane Center  , 26 Aug 2005.


Director of the National Hurricane Center, Max Mayfield, calls the governors of Louisiana and Mississippi and the mayor of New Orleans to warn of potential devastation. The next day he participates in a video conference call to the President, who is at his ranch in Crawford, Texas.


—Tamara Lush, For forecasting chief, no joy in being right  , St. Petersburg Times , 30 Aug 2005.


Sunday, Aug. 28 2005 - 1 Day Prior


1 a.m. - Katrina is upgraded to a Category 4 storm with wind speeds reaching 145 mph.


—Hurricane Katrina Special Advisory Number 20,  National Hurricane Center, 28 Aug 2005.


7 a.m. - Katrina is upgraded to a potentially catastrophic Category 5 storm. NOAA predicts coastal storm surge flooding of 15 to 20 feet above normal tide levels.


—Hurricane Katrina Special Advisory Number 22,  National Hurricane Center , 28 Aug 2005.


—New Orleans braces for monster hurricane,   CNN.com, 29 Aug 2005.


9:30 a.m. - With wind speeds reaching 175 mph, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin orders a mandatory evacuation of the city after speaking with Bush.  The evacuation call comes only 20 hours before Katrina would make landfall – less than half the time that researchers had determined was necessary to evacuate the city.


—Gordon Russell, Nagin orders first-ever mandatory evacuation of New Orleans , New Orleans Times-Picayune , 31 Aug 2005.


—Lise Olsen, City had evacuation plan but strayed from strategy , Houston Chronicle , 8 Sep 2005.


10 a.m. - NOAA raises their estimate of storm surge flooding to 18 to 22 feet above normal tide levels. The levee protecting New Orleans from Lake Pontchartrain is only 17.5 feet tall; the Mississippi River levee reaches 23 feet.


—Hurricane Katrina Special Advisory Number 23  National Hurricane Center  , 28 Aug 2005.


The Associated Press reports that New Orleans could become a vast cesspool tainted with toxic chemicals, human waste and even coffins released…from the city's legendary cemeteries.


The storm threatened an environmental disaster of biblical proportions , one that could leave more than 1 million people homeless, the AP says.


—Matt Crenson, Katrina may create environmental catastrophe on epic scale, Associated Press , 28 Aug 2005.


11:31 a.m. - The President – at his ranch in Crawford – speaks briefly to reporters. His statement contains 203 words about Katrina and 819 congratulating Iraqis on their new constitution. We will do everything in our power to help the people in the communities affected by this storm, he says of the approaching hurricane.


President Discusses Hurricane Katrina , Congratulates Iraqis on Draft Constitution, Prairie Chapel Ranch, Crawford, Texas, 28 Aug 2005.


8:30 p.m. - An empty Amtrak train leaves New Orleans, with room for thousands of potential evacuees. We offered the city the opportunity to take evacuees out of harm's way…The city declined, said Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black. The train left New Orleans no passengers on board.


—Susan Glasser, The Steady Buildup to a City's Chaos , The Washington Post , 11 Sep 2005.


Two weeks later, Nagin denies on NBC's Meet the Press  that Amtrak offered their services. Amtrak never contacted me to make that offer, the mayor tells host Tim Russert.  I have never gotten that call, Tim, and I would love to have had that call. But it never happened.


Interview with Mayor Nagin , Meet the Press, NBC, 11 Sep 2005.


Monday August 29, 2005 - Day of Katrina


6 a.m. - Katrina makes landfall on Louisiana coast as a strong Category 4 storm, with sustained winds of nearly 145 mph and predicted coastal storm surge of up to 28 feet. The National Hurricane Center warns that some levees in the greater New Orleans area could be overtopped. It says a weather buoy located about 50 miles east of the mouth of the Mississippi river had reported waves heights of at least 47 feet.


—Hurricane Katrina Intermediate Advisory Number 26A …Corrected,    National Hurricane Center  , 29 Aug 2005.


8.a.m. - The storm surge sends water sloshing up the Industrial Canal, and local officials immediately report flooding on both sides. Winds break a barge loose and it strikes the levee.


—John McQuaid, Katrina trapped city in double disasters, New Orleans Times-Picayune, 7 Sep 2005.


9 a.m. - The eastern part of the city and Bernard Parish are already flooded several feet deep, even before the eye of the storm has passed. Thousands of survivors are trapped. But worse flooding is to come: within hours, city canal floodwalls will also collapse and a second, slower wave of flooding will take place.


—John McQuaid, Katrina trapped city in double disasters , New Orleans Times-Picayune , 7 Sep 2005.


11 a.m. - New Orleans is spared a direct hit, as the center of the storm passes over the Louisiana-Mississippi state line 35 miles away from the city. Maximum sustained winds are now reduced, but still a strong Category 3 storm with 125 mph winds.


—Hurricane Katrina Advisory Number 27,  National Hurricane Center , 29 Aug 2005.


11:06 a.m . - Bush promotes his Medicare prescription drug benefit at a 44-minute event in El Mirage, Arizona. He devotes 156 words to the hurricane, among them: I want the folks there on the Gulf Coast to know that the federal government is prepared to help you when the storm passes. I want to thank the governors of the affected regions for mobilizing assets prior to the arrival of the storm to help citizens avoid this devastating storm.


President Participates in Conversation on Medicare  White House  , 29 Aug 2005.


Late Morning (exact time uncertain)  - The vital 17th Street Canal levee gives way, sending the water from Lake Pontchartrain into the city in a second, slower wave of flooding. A full day will pass before state or federal officials fully realize what is happening.


—John McQuaid, Katrina trapped city in double disasters , New Orleans Times-Picayune , 7 Sep 2005.


Eventually, engineers will find five separate places where concrete floodwalls gave way. They will still be debating and studying the causes of the failures two weeks after the storm.


—John McQuaid, Mystery surrounds floodwall breaches; Could a structural flaw be to blame ? New Orleans Times-Picayune , 13 Sep 2005.


About 11 a.m. (exact time uncertain) - Roughly five hours after Katrina strikes the coast, FEMA director Michael Brown sends a memo – later obtained and made public by The Associated Press – requesting an additional 1,000 rescue workers from the Department of Homeland Security within 48 hours and 2,000 more within seven days. It is addressed to his boss, Michael Chertoff, Secretary of Homeland Security. Brown refers to Katrina as this near catastrophic event (our emphasis.) He proposes sending the workers first for training in Georgia or Florida, then to the disaster area when conditions are safe. Among the duties of the workers, Brown proposes, is to convey a positive image of disaster operations to government officials, community organizations and the general public. (Emphasis added.)


—Michael D. Brown, Memorandum to Michael Chertoff, Secretary of Homeland Security , 29 Aug 2005.


Later Brown will say FEMA itself has only 2,600 employees nationwide, and normally relies on state workers, the National Guard, private contractors and other federal agencies during disaster relief operations.


—David D. Kirkpatrick and Scott Shane, Ex-FEMA Chief Tells of Frustration and Chaos , New York Times, 15 Sep 2005: A1.


4:40 p.m.  - Bush appears in Rancho Cucamonga, California for another Medicare event. He again devotes a few words to Katrina: It's a storm now that is moving through, and now it's the time for governments to help people get their feet on the ground. . . . For those of you who are concerned about whether or not we're prepared to help, don't be. We are. We're in place. We've got equipment in place, supplies in place. And once the -- once we're able to assess the damage, we'll be able to move in and help those good folks in the affected areas.


President Discusses Medicare, New Prescription Drug Benefits  ,James L. Brulte Senior Center Rancho Cucamonga, California, 29 Aug 2005.


Time uncertain - Blanco calls Bush, saying, Mr. President, we need your help. We need everything you've got. Bush later assures her that help is on the way.


—James Carney et al, 4 Places Where the System Broke Down, Time , 11 September 2005.


—Evan Thomas, How Bush Blew It, Newsweek , 19 September 2005.


Tuesday August 30, 2005 - 1 Day After Katrina


Dawn - Water has continued to rise overnight and is coursing through the city's central business district, still rising. Eventually, at least least 80 percent of New Orleans is under water. Reports of looting surface.


—John McQuaid, Katrina trapped city in double disasters , New Orleans Times-Picayune , 7 Sep 2005.


11:04 a.m.  - In San Diego, California, Bush delivers a 31-minute speech marking the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II. Of Katrina, he says, we're beginning to move in the help that people need.


President Commemorates 60th Anniversary of V-J Day Naval Air Station North Island San Diego, California 30 Aug 2005.


Immediately after the speech, White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan tells reporters that Bush will return to Crawford, then cut short his Texas stay and go to Washington. McClellan says, This is one of the most devastating storms in our nation's history. I think that's becoming clear to everyone. The devastation is enormous.


Press Gaggle by Scott McClellan , Naval Air Station North Island San Diego, California, 30 Aug 2005.


3 p.m. - With water still pouring into the city, officials report that the Army Corps of Engineers has surveyed the damage to levees and will soon attempt repair. 


At a Baton Rouge briefing, Sen. Mary Landrieu reports that most of the roads and highways are impassable, and water is still coming into the city of New Orleans. The water is up to the rooftops in St. Bernard and Plaquemine. We think there may be only one major way into the city right now and it has to be used for emergency personnel to get food and water and rescue equipment to people who are in desperate need.


But even now, federal and state officials alike seem unaware of the full extent of the unfolding disaster.


FEMA's coordinator William Lokey says of the still-rising water:



FEMA's Bill Lokey: In the metropolitan area in general, in the huge majority of areas, it's not rising at all. It's the same or it may be lowering slightly. In some parts of New Orleans, because of the 17th Street breach, it may be rising and that seemed to be the case in parts of downtown.


I don't want to alarm everybody that, you know, New Orleans is filling up like a bowl. That's just not happening.


None of the state officials present at the press conference correct Lokey's mistaken remark. And Blanco seems puzzled when a reporter asks the governor about the water pollution that will later emerge as a major public health risk:



Q: Does the water that's downtown -- does this represent what everyone feared before the hurricane would come, that you would have this toxic soup that has overrun the city?


Blanco: It didn't -- I wouldn't think it would be toxic soup right now. I think it's just water from the lake, water from the canals. It's, you know, water.


Q: Well, something could be underneath that water.


Blanco: Pardon?


The Situation Room; Hurricane Katrina Aftermath ; Rescue Efforts and Assessing the Damage, Transcript, CNN,  30 Aug 2005.


Wednesday August 31, 2005 - 2 Days After


Morning - Bush, still in Crawford, participates in a half-hour video conference on Katrina with Vice President Cheney (who is in Wyoming) and top aides. Later, he boards Air Force One and flies over New Orleans on his way back to Washington. His press secretary tells reporters: The President, when we were passing over that part of New Orleans, said, 'It's devastating, it's got to be doubly devastating on the ground.'


Press Gaggle with Scott McClellan Aboard Air Force One, En Route Andrews Air Force Base, MD,  31 Aug 2005.


Looting intensifies in New Orleans.  Nagin orders most of the police to abandon search and rescue missions for survivors and focus on packs of looters who are becoming increasingly violent.  The AP reported, Police officers were asking residents to give up any guns they had before they boarded buses and trucks because police desperately needed the firepower.


Mayor: Katrina may have killed thousands , Associated Press , 31 Aug 2005


Late Afternoon  - Bush, back at the White House, holds a cabinet meeting on Katrina and speaks for nine minutes in the Rose Garden to outline federal relief efforts. He says FEMA has moved 25 search and rescue teams into the area. As for those stranded at the Superdome, Buses are on the way to take those people from New Orleans to Houston, the President says.


President Outlines Hurricane Katrina Relief Efforts , The Rose Garden, 31 Aug 2005.


Thursday September 1, 2005 - 3 Days After


7 a.m. - Bush says I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees. His remark comes in a live interview on ABC's Good Morning America :



Bush: I want people to know there's a lot of help coming. I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees. They did anticipate a serious storm. These levees got breached and as a result, much of New Orleans is flooded and now we're having to deal with it and will.


—“Good Morning America,” Transcript, ABC News, 1 September 2005.


Time Uncertain - Red Cross President Marsha Evans asks permission to enter the city with relief supplies, but Louisiana state officials deny permission.


—Red Cross: State rebuffed relief efforts: Aid organization never got into New Orleans, officials say   CNN.com , 9 Sep 2005.


Thirty-thousand National Guard Troops from across the country are ordered to report to the Gulf Coast, but many do not arrive for several days.


More Navy Ships, National Guard troops head to the Gulf Coast , Associated Press, 1 Sep 2005.


The first buses arrive at the Superdome to take evacuees to the Astrodome in Houston, 355 miles away. But the evacuation goes slowly and will take several days.


—Evan Thomas, The Lost City, Newsweek , 12 September 2005.


Associated Press photographer Phil Coale makes an aerial shot of scores of school buses sitting unused in a flooded New Orleans lot. Many will later question why city officials did not use these busses to evacuate residents who lacked transportation prior to the hurricane, or at least move them to higher ground for use later.


—AP Photo/Phil Coale Aerial view of flooded school busses, Yahoo News, 1 Sep 2005.


Evening - In a special report that is typical of the picture that television is conveying to the world, CNN Correspondent Adaora Udoji reports: Three days after Hurricane Katrina, and the situation is getting more desperate by the minute. Thousands are still stranded in misery.  . . . They are marching in search of food, water and relief. They're surrounded by a crumbling city and dead bodies. Infants have no formula, the children no food, nothing for adults, no medical help. They're burning with frustration, and sure they have been forgotten.


And CNN's Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, reports live from Charity hospital in New Orleans: It doesn't appear to be safe now, but it seems that a sniper standing atop one of the buildings just above us here and firing down at patients and doctors as they were trying to be evacuated, unbelievable. It just boggles my mind, actually.


—Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees, Special Edition: Hurricane Katrina  CNN Transcripts  , 1 Sept 2005.


Brown says FEMA officials were unaware for days that – besides the hurricane victims stranded in the Superdome – thousands more had taken refuge in the New Orleans Convention Center nearby. Speaking from Baton Rouge in a live interview with CNN's Paula Zahn, he says:



Brown : And so, this -- this catastrophic disaster continues to grow. I will tell you this, though. Every person in that Convention Center, we just learned about that today . And so, I have directed that we have all available resources to get to that Convention Center to make certain that they have the food and water, the medical care that they need...
Q: Sir, you aren't telling me...
Brown : ... and that we take care of those bodies that are there.  . . .
Q: Sir, you aren't just telling me you just learned that the folks at the Convention Center didn't have food and water until today, are you? You had no idea they were completely cut off?
Brown: Paula, the federal government did not even know about the Convention Center people until today.


—Paula Zahn Now, Desperation in New Orleans; Interview With FEMA Director Mike Brown,  Transcript , 1 Sep 2005.


Later, Brown will say he was wrong and that FEMA actually knew about the victims at the Convention Center 24 hours earlier but was unable to reach them until Thursday.


—David D. Kirkpatrick and Scott Shane, Ex-FEMA Chief Tells of Frustration and Chaos, New York Times 15 Sep 2005: A1


Evening - Nagin delivers a rambling diatribe in an interview with local radio station WWL-AM, blaming Bush and Blanco for doing too little:



Nagin : I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man.  . .
I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. ... We don't have anything, and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines Parish.
It's awful down here, man.
. . . Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They're not here. It's too doggone late. Now get off your asses and do something , and let's fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.


—Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses,' Transcript of radio interview with New Orleans' Nagin, CNN.com, 2 Sep 2005.


Friday September 2, 2005 - 4 Days After


The Red Cross renews its request to enter the city with relief supplies. We had adequate supplies, the people and the vehicles, Red Cross official Vic Howell would later recall. Louisiana officials say they needed 24 hours to provide an escort and prepare for the Red Cross's arrival. However, 24 hours later, a large-scale evacuation is underway and the Red Cross relief effort never reaches New Orleans.


—Red Cross: State rebuffed relief efforts: Aid organization never got into New Orleans, officials say   CNN.com , 9 Sep 2005.


8:02 a.m. - Bush leaves the White House to tour the hurricane area. He says, A lot of people are working hard to help those who have been affected, and I want to thank the people for their efforts. The results are not acceptable .


—President Heads to Hurricane Katrina Affected Areas,  The South Lawn , 2 Sep 2005.


10:35 am - Bush, arriving in Alabama to tour the disaster area, says of the FEMA director at a live news conference: Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job. The FEMA director is working 24 -- (applause) -- they're working 24 hours a day. Again, my attitude is, if it's not going exactly right, we're going to make it go exactly right. If there's problems, we're going to address the problems.


—President Arrives in Alabama, Briefed on Hurricane Katrina,  Mobile Regional Airport Mobile , Alabama 2 Sep 2005.


Noon - A convoy of military trucks drives through floodwaters to the convention center, the first supplies of water and food to reach victims who have waited for days. Thousands of armed National Guardsmen carrying weapons stream into the city to help restore order. Commanding is Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré, a cigar-chomping Louisiana native who soon wins praise for his decisive style of action.


—Allen G. Breed, National Guardsmen Arrive in New Orleans, The Associated Press, 2 Sep 2005.


5:01p.m. - Bush speaks at New Orleans airport, saying, I know the people of this part of the world are suffering, and I want them to know that there's a flow of progress. We're making progress.


—President Remarks on Hurricane Recovery Efforts , Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport 2 Sep 2005.



Saturday, September 3, 2005 - 5 Days After


10:06 am - Bush announces he is ordering additional active duty forces to the Gulf coast. The enormity of the task requires more resources, he says in his Saturday radio address. In America we do not abandon our fellow citizens in their hour of need. He says 4,000 active-duty troops are already in the area and 7,000 more will arrive in the next 72 hours. Those will add to some 21,000 National Guard troops already in the region.


President Addresses Nation , Discusses Hurricane Katrina Relief Efforts, The Rose Garden , 3 Sep 2005.


Sunday, September 4, 2005 - 6 Days After


The President issues a proclamation ordering the US Flag to be flown at half-staff at all federal building until Sept. 20 as a mark of respect for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.


Proclamation by the President: Honoring the Memory of the Victims of Hurricane Katrina, 4 Sep 2005.


Monday September 5, 2005 - One Week After


U.S. Army Corps of Engineers repair the levee breach on the 17th Street Canal and begin to pump water from the city.


—Pumps begin to drain New Orleans.  CNN.com , 6 Sep 2005.



Tuesday September 6, 2005 - 8 Days After

FEMA asks reporters to refrain from taking pictures of the dead. Reuters quotes a FEMA spokeswoman as sending an email saying, The recovery of victims is being treated with dignity and the utmost respect and we have requested that no photographs of the deceased be made by the media.


—Deborah Zabarenko,  Media groups say FEMA censors search for bodies , Reuters , 7 Sep 2005


Nagin orders police and law enforcement officials to remove everyone from the city who is not involved in recovery efforts.  Despite this order, many residents remain in New Orleans, refusing to leave.


—Cain Burdeau,  New Orleans Mayor orders Forced Evacuation , Associated Press , 7 Sep 2005.


Wednesday September 7, 2005 - 9 Days After


FEMA brings in Kenyon International Services from Houston to assist in recovering  bodies, many of which have been left in the open since the storm hit. A week later, state and federal officials will still be bickering over who is to pay the $119,000 daily expense of the outside mortuary specialists, and many bodies will still lie uncollected in the open and in drained buildings two weeks after the storm.


—Michelle Krupa, Louisiana hires firm to help recover bodies ; Blanco says FEMA moved too slowly, New Orleans Times-Picayune , 14 Sep 2005.


A bipartisan joint Congressional Committee is announced to investigate the response to Hurricane Katrina at all levels of government, as federal, state, and local officials continue to blame each other for the slow response in dealing with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.


—GOP leaders agree to joint Katrina hearings,   CNN.com , 8 Sep 2005.


Friday September 9, 2005 - 11 Days After


Chertoff removes Brown from his role in managing the Katrina relief effort, and puts  Coast Guard Vice Admiral Thad W. Allen in charge.


—Peter Baker,  FEMA Director Replaced as Head of Relief Effort , Washington Post , 10 Sep 2005:  A01.


Monday September 12, 2005 - Two Weeks After


Brown resigns as head of FEMA saying, it is important that I leave now to avoid further distraction from the ongoing mission of FEMA.


—Statement by Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Department of Homeland Security Emergency Preparedness & Response and Director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency,   News Release , FEMA, 12 Sep 2005.


September 13, 2005


11:30 a.m. – Bush takes responsibility for the federal government’s failures while speaking at a press conference with Iraqi President Talabani.



Bush: Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government. And to the extent that the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility. I want to know what went right and what went wrong.


—“President Welcomes President Talabani of Iraq to the White House,” The East Room, news release , 13 Sep 2005.


Thursday, September 15, 2005


Brown, in an interview published in the New York Times , says the governor and her staff had failed to organize a coherent state effort in the days after the hurricane, and that his field officers in the city were reporting an out of control situation to his superiors. He says he asked state officials, What do you need? Help me help you. . . . The response was like, 'Let us find out,' and then I never received specific requests for specific things that needed doing. A spokesman for the governor said, That is just totally inaccurate.


—David D. Kirkpatrick and Scott Shane, Ex-FEMA Chief Tells of Frustration and Chaos , New York Times 15 Sep 2005: A1


8:02 p.m. - Bush says, in a prime-time, televised speech from New Orleans, that the system, at every level of government, was not well-coordinated, and was overwhelmed in the first few days. He says the military should have a greater role in reacting to future large disasters.  Congress is preparing an investigation, and I will work with members of both parties to make sure this effort is thorough. He promises massive aid, tax breaks, and loan guarantees to aid rebuilding, saying that there is no way to imagine America without New Orleans, and this great city will rise again.


—President Discusses Hurricane Relief in Address to the Nation, Jackson Square,  New Orleans, Louisiana 15 Sep 2005.


You'll be waiting a long, long time, then, cuz she's going to do

He died a long, long time ago! (If he was ever
Don't force your beliefs on others. It further devalues your faith in the eyes of others.
What happened?
Oh geez..what happened?  Where are all the attack posts??  They are gone!!  Or maybe Im just hallucinating this morning, LOL. OMG!!  Now we can have soulful, fruitful, progressive and caring debates and ideas and maybe even possibly make a difference, without being attacked on everything we post.  Halleluiah!!
What I think happened
I believe the other short, nasty post was deleted and in doing so it automatically deleted the other posts below it, which unfortunately included yours. 
Yes, let's. What happened to all that
You used the "little people" reference to illustrate how elitist my concerns are. Those were not Obama's words, they were yours. You are not as good at spin as you think you are. Your choice to skip over the points about what KIND of executive experiences is another casual dismissal of issues far to vital to ignore, as you evidently would have us do. Those concerns will not be repeated here since you are trying to side-step them, as republicans inevitably do when faced with intellectual challenge, except to say that CEOs are executives, but keep themselves far out of touch with the "little people" beneath them. Sarah what's-her-name has also demonstrated a tendency to be a bit out of touch when it comes to using her office to elevate herself from ethics maid to VP.

Be impressed by that December 4, 2006 to now executive title. You obviously cannot cite any substance behind the title and neither can she. Most of us will not be voting for a title or a label, despite your party's best efforts.

Side-stepped everything about the token selection and Stepford Wife delegation, I see. So much for celebrating women's progress in the political arena.

First chair? Hopefully not (God help us if she ever is). Fact: That possibility is considerably more real under McCain (especially over an 8-year term) because of his age. Again, you have side-stepped the difference between the experience of Biden and the absence of same in what's-her-name. So much for being ready to lead the country. No problem. Says all it need to. 80% approval rating unheard of? You got that right. Nobody beyond Alaska has heard about it and it does not mean anything in view of the issue I raised that you are ignoring.

If you want to continue to make an utter fool of yourself by insisting her experience matches Obama's, go for it. I won't need to answer that lunacy again anytime soon. I'll let the media take care of that one for me and besides, rational minds will prevail over this lame claim.

What ever happened to
all those scathing protests over "redistribution of wealth?"  How do all these bail-outs factor into that line of thinking? 
I don't know how this happened!!! =)
ms - here's my political profile from the test you posted. Yes, I was very surprised! The liberal part must be hold-overs from my college days! =)

Overall: 75% Conservative, 25% Liberal

Social Issues: 50% Conservative, 50% Liberal

Personal Responsibility: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal

Fiscal Issues: 75% Conservative, 25% Liberal

Ethics: 50% Conservative, 50% Liberal

Defense and Crime: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal
and what happened?
did someone put a stop to it???
What happened to sam?

I'm just curious.  I can barely stomach the politics board, so I almost never read the political posts due to the O-Love-A-Thon and the pure vitreol, which does nobody any good. 


I noticed that sam took off.  I don't blame him/her, either.  I simply wondered.


As for Ann Coulter, her brilliance and success literally drives the libs nuts.  I have her books, too, just short of her latest one, "Guilty."


I'm not here to start a bunch of %(#$*, but I just wondered where sam went.  My guess is that he/she got sick of the crap and left.  I couldn't figure why he/she continued the fightl  I know I won't go there.


I know what happened...LOL..(sm)

You responded to a post that said "what makes you think we don't" when you probably should have, or meant to respond to the comment above that.  It went south after that.  Been there and done that.  I hate it when that happens....LOL.


What happened to us.

You always hear about people in the old days who worked from run rise to run set to make enough money, etc. to support themselves and their kids.  They wouldn't take charity or handouts.  They took pride in working and earning what they got whether it was enough or not.  Now there are just too many people with their hands out asking for a free ride. 


As far as I am concerned.....if you are receiving welfare and you refuse to work even if it isn't a great job......you lose your welfare.  I have no problem contributing to someone who is at least trying to work.  However, I do have a problem with giving money to lazy bums who would rather mooch off other people than to do a days honest work.


This is what happened
Someone posted that the Capt had been freed. Someone replied to that "Thank you President Obama. Job well done". We're all thinking what????? I didn't know that the O was part of the Navy Seal team that went in and rescued the Captain. Why would you be thanking the O but not the Navy Seals, not saying they are hero's that laid down their lives to rescue the Captain. No they attribute it all to the O. And yet on the other side of the coin they wouldn't give GW the same "congrats" when he gave the orders to have the girl from West Virginia rescued, or when he have the orders to have the hostages in Iran rescued, or any of the other orders he gave the okay on for the Navy Seals to rescue the people. But even then, as I don't congratulate the O because he wasn't part of the Navy Seals that risked their life to save the Captain, I would also not congratulate Bush on his orders to rescue other hostages.

The congrats goes to the Navy Seals. The ones who lay their lives down to rescue people they don't even know. When you give your life and are prepared to die to save another human being, they are the real hero's. But the poster that congratulated the O for "a job well done", didn't even mention anything about the ones who actually did the saving.

I don't get you guys...what is it you want. We all know you think he is the messiah, the anointed one, the one who can do no wrong. You will always be the first to praise "oh looky the stock market went up 8.5 points - way to go O, you're just the best president ever", but when the stock market drops something like 150 points you stay silent, and then be the ones to point out that the stock market goes up and down and it's not his fault. I sit and think...uh hellloooooo...you just congratuated him for the stock market going up but it's not his fault it goes down?????? (which by the way I don't believe whether it goes up or down he has anything to do with, but evidently you people do - that is of course only when it goes up).

All you want to see on this board is praises for him and rejoicing and singing hallelujah's to his name. You will never ever say anything when something bad is happening. Just praises.

Yes, I know he will make mistakes, and I know he will do some good. But not admitting when something bad is going on (like tripling our deficit within 90 days - and no, not a fault of Bush's, the O did this all by himself with his pen and paper, and with the help of a crat congress. You won't admit he is breaking his campaign promises. You won't say anything when we hear he is telling other countries that they can have our jobs because we don't want them anyways. You won't say anything when he bows to another countries leader (the American president is suppose to bow to nobody - but on top of that if he is suppose to bow to anyone, certainly not the country like that - I mean for pete's sake, he didn't even bow to the Queen of England). You may say you don't think he's perfect, but you certainly don't speak up when something he has done is wrong.

The "I know he will make mistakes - what man has never made mistakes?", etc, etc. sounds like your trying to get people to feel sorry for him and maybe you think it aids in your cause of the "oh poor O, everyone is picking on him". Well you know what, when people stand up and say "I'm mad as he!! and I'm not going to take it anymore". When you finally will speak up and say "hey, wait a minute, I voted for him but this is not what he said he was going to do" (which is what has happened to me. Yeah, you bet I get pretty ticked off when I have been lied to and I voted for him believing one thing and then realized he suckered us a good one. That's what's the really upsetting thing. Fooled me once shame on you, fool me twice - well there just won't be a twice.

"Why can't ya'll just give him a chance"??????? He has had his chance and he is blowing it.
It disappeared? I wonder how that happened.
nm
More importantly, what ever happened to the USA?

A Chinese bank is opening up in the USA.  Bush at one time had wanted to sell "security" of our ports to an Arab country.  We have two citizen heroes rotting away in jail because they did their job of protecting our border with Mexico and were forced to kill a criminal in the process of doing that job. 


If you open this link, you will see the staggering number of "American" companies that are no longer owned by Americans.  http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/07/10/american-icons-owned-abroad-falling-dollar-cheaper-u-s-assets/


As far as the redistribution of wealth, below I have copied and pasted what I feel is, by far, the most interesting article I've read on that topic.  In my opinion, a "trickle up" policy needs to be implemented as soon as possible because the "trickle down" theory has not worked.



Closing Time


Jim Kirwan
12-10-8


 








Since Reagan we've been trying to make "Trickle-Down economics" work: For those to whom promises were made, Trickle- Down has been, not just a failure but it has been the major vehicle responsible for the most massive redistribution of wealth, from the population that has worked toward something, to those that wanted everything. Never has there been such a near total transfer of wealth in the history of the planet. This criminal-conspiracy has done what it was created to do ­ and it must be terminated with extreme prejudice, immediately, if we are to survive.
 
When 'Trickle-Down' was the political-priority of the day, the high-point in prosperity was to become a 'Millionaire.' Forbes magazine tracked those lucky few very carefully. Today Forbes 500 no longer bothers with 'millionaires' because there are just far too many of them-they have become inconsequential. Thanks to "Trickle-Down economics today the heavy-hitters financially are 'Billionaires' and above: which is all you need to know about how well this hostile-takeover of the American economy has worked.
 
The problem that this transfer of wealth has created has resulted in the Federalization-of-Privatization: As a result we are all facing another huge round of trickle-down economics, but this time it's being cloaked in a series of stealth-protected measures. These new tactics are commonly called BAILOUT or RESCUE packages, and nothing about their origins or their purposes has been made clear to those of us that will be forced to pay tens of trillions for our own destruction.
 
What's happening is this: First they used compromised laws to squash diversity and opinion within the entire field of communications, under Clinton and Powell's kid that ran the FCC. Together, competition was eliminated and monstrous empires were created that absorbed their competition outright. Once this happened, the entire edifice for total information management was in-place, using household names to lie to the public every minute of every day, whether on television or in print-with very few exceptions. With that completed effort it was easy to move directly onto the openly fascist path to WAR on a variety of fronts, supported and applauded by the very organs that were supposed to question whatever government does, on behalf of the people, as part of their constitutionally protected-jobs as so-called journalists. With the constitution gone, and the only allegiance worthy of that name having become the private for-profit motives that greed and arrogance breeds; in the sewers of those ruined lives where these so-called leaders "live," the current outcome is all that we should have ever expected from these new-age barbarians. (1)
 
We're still in the Twilight Zone; where Obama is just another man waiting to start a job, except that he seemingly can't wait to begin so he formulates their plans and then rushes to the nearest podium to expound upon the glories of what these programs (or pogroms) are pointedly designed to do; for them and 'to' us. And the sheep wait patiently to board the trains that will take them to the slaughterhouse.
 
The larger picture has or course remained hidden from the general public. What continues to go unnoticed is the number of profligate cities and towns, not to mention states that will have to be bailed out by the feds. Once this begins to happen, 'the rights' of states will disappear completely along with any independence from the federal-government. Remember the formula upon which bailouts are based: The crucial money provided is conditioned upon a federal "ownership stake" in everything that needs the money, and when this is applied to the states then all they have left to trade with is their broken-economies and their people who shall both become the property of the federal government that is today a private-corporation that serves only the privately-owned central banks and by extension the multi-national corporations. This is about to happen now to several states, including California; the sixth largest economy in the world. (2)
 
'BTW the "corporation" mentioned above has been bankrupt since 1933, and the result of that bankruptcy is that the USA went into receivership to the privately-owned Federal Reserve. The Dictator was correct when he said: "The constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper," he was actually telling the truth. It was probably the only truthful statement he ever made in nearly eight years.
The owners have simply allowed us to believe we have a constitution. Every law, code and statute world wide is based on the Uniform Commercial Code and has been in place since 1950. Of course no one in a position of power ever bothered to mention this to us did they? One must understand the UCC to understand how and why so many have gotten away with so much: And now they are upping the ante, to take it all.'
 
This explains why every courtroom and every government building has flags hanging that really are not American flags even though they appear to be. Each of them has gold/yellow fringe around them. They give us smoke and mirrors that mask what they created, which allows them to continue to say 'we have a constitution and a democracy.' Of course America was created to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic. The rights of the few and the many, can only be protected under a Republic, while under a democracy, the majority rules-absolutely.
 
There are however a few places that are still holding out against the one-world-order and the New Barbarians. Among these are Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, possibly Iran and certainly Greece.
"Socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the conservative government could no longer defend the public from rioters.
 
The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.
 
'The government cannot handle this crisis and has lost the trust of the Greek people,' Papandreou said. 'The best thing it can do is resign and let the people find a solution ... we will protect the public.'" (3)
 
If America is to survive then we must stop this wholesale giveaway of everything that was once part of this society. The relationship between profits and earnings must be freed from the stranglehold that management has created in order to siphon off all the profits and wreck the companies they work for. In addition, the idea that government can function in any capacity as a major stakeholder in any form of private enterprise beggars the imagination far beyond any real possibility for saving anything; except the criminals and their enterprises that created this "crisis" in the first place. The 'economy' must be based on a bottom-up profit motive, based on the real wages of those that create the wealth for those at the top - and not upon the insanity that it is now! People must come first, and the corporations must be controlled at every level by the public!
 
There is no longer anything like responsibility anywhere in government or the private sector to anything except what can continue to be stolen, either by flawed and fraudulent bailouts, or through the strong-arm tactics that are currently acting "under- cover of law" and that are neither legal nor functional. Obama in this venue is neither a savior, nor a friend to the people that supposedly 'elected' him-he is just the instrument of the new global-government engine designed to finish the job and to close down this nation, once and for all! Americans need to watch what happens in Greece and follow their example, if there is to be an America to fight over in the future.
 
In the meanwhile, here is some of what's happened here already.
 
"With the focus on privatization, public-private partnerships, (dismantling local control); anyone with any common sense about them can see that; incrementally the power of the people is being given over to corporate control through various venues. Once upon a time we were subjects, then citizens, and now consumers. Everything is for sale. TV 'programming' is set up to entice "consumers" through the 3000 daily ads to buy, buy, buy! Utilities-waste- nursing homes, and even the people's water (once in local control) is open to the highest bidder or those with the most influence. In "public private partnerships or privatization" (despite the lofty high pitch sales rhetoric) means only one thing, a plundering of the people's money. Profits take precedence over any and all health or environmental concerns. It's pigs at the trough time, locally- state wise and nationally. This is not just happening in one or two isolated places but across the nation. Because we are narrowly focused (many times only one newspaper) parochially; we have little to no idea of the larger picture and what is being set in place.
 
As I read of various happenings across the nation; I am struck with the usage of terms and language being introduced into the public arena; with no explanation as to their meaning (if any). I asked a state politician a few years back what this terminology we're hearing lately of, "regional or regionalization" meant? He brushed the whole thing aside as inconsequential and told me that is was of no importance. Obviously, for me, that was an unsatisfactory answer. Most especially, since on the local level, I could see that it meant a great deal. It appeared to me, that ever so insidiously, local control was gradually being usurped by "regional" control of unelected officials. Consultants (strangers) were replacing local people in places of city government (at lucrative salaries). The sense of community (calling city hall etc.) was being replaced by various business entities, having little to no attachment to the heartbeat of the people. How could they, being strangers, with no sense of native pride or concern? Words like "regional, stake holder, empowerment zones, enterprise committees, visioning councils, smart growth, sustainable development etc;" had replaced understandable language! I didn't imagine that the usage of these terms across the nation (if you look) meant "nothing"." (4)
 
It's 'Closing Time' America, because unless you begin to do more than just watch, this place won't even be a footnote to the ruin that is planned for these people and this place that once held so much promise for everyone.
 
kirwanstudios@sbcglobal.net

More importantly, what ever happened to the USA?

A Chinese bank is opening up in the USA.  Bush at one time had wanted to sell "security" of our ports to an Arab country.  We have two citizen heroes rotting away in jail because they did their job of protecting our border with Mexico and were forced to kill a criminal in the process of doing that job. 


If you open this link, you will see the staggering number of "American" companies that are no longer owned by Americans.  http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/07/10/american-icons-owned-abroad-falling-dollar-cheaper-u-s-assets/


As far as the redistribution of wealth, below I have copied and pasted what I feel is, by far, the most interesting article I've read on that topic.  In my opinion, a "trickle up" policy needs to be implemented as soon as possible because the "trickle down" theory has not worked.



Closing Time


Jim Kirwan
12-10-8


 








Since Reagan we've been trying to make "Trickle-Down economics" work: For those to whom promises were made, Trickle- Down has been, not just a failure but it has been the major vehicle responsible for the most massive redistribution of wealth, from the population that has worked toward something, to those that wanted everything. Never has there been such a near total transfer of wealth in the history of the planet. This criminal-conspiracy has done what it was created to do ­ and it must be terminated with extreme prejudice, immediately, if we are to survive.
 
When 'Trickle-Down' was the political-priority of the day, the high-point in prosperity was to become a 'Millionaire.' Forbes magazine tracked those lucky few very carefully. Today Forbes 500 no longer bothers with 'millionaires' because there are just far too many of them-they have become inconsequential. Thanks to "Trickle-Down economics today the heavy-hitters financially are 'Billionaires' and above: which is all you need to know about how well this hostile-takeover of the American economy has worked.
 
The problem that this transfer of wealth has created has resulted in the Federalization-of-Privatization: As a result we are all facing another huge round of trickle-down economics, but this time it's being cloaked in a series of stealth-protected measures. These new tactics are commonly called BAILOUT or RESCUE packages, and nothing about their origins or their purposes has been made clear to those of us that will be forced to pay tens of trillions for our own destruction.
 
What's happening is this: First they used compromised laws to squash diversity and opinion within the entire field of communications, under Clinton and Powell's kid that ran the FCC. Together, competition was eliminated and monstrous empires were created that absorbed their competition outright. Once this happened, the entire edifice for total information management was in-place, using household names to lie to the public every minute of every day, whether on television or in print-with very few exceptions. With that completed effort it was easy to move directly onto the openly fascist path to WAR on a variety of fronts, supported and applauded by the very organs that were supposed to question whatever government does, on behalf of the people, as part of their constitutionally protected-jobs as so-called journalists. With the constitution gone, and the only allegiance worthy of that name having become the private for-profit motives that greed and arrogance breeds; in the sewers of those ruined lives where these so-called leaders "live," the current outcome is all that we should have ever expected from these new-age barbarians. (1)
 
We're still in the Twilight Zone; where Obama is just another man waiting to start a job, except that he seemingly can't wait to begin so he formulates their plans and then rushes to the nearest podium to expound upon the glories of what these programs (or pogroms) are pointedly designed to do; for them and 'to' us. And the sheep wait patiently to board the trains that will take them to the slaughterhouse.
 
The larger picture has or course remained hidden from the general public. What continues to go unnoticed is the number of profligate cities and towns, not to mention states that will have to be bailed out by the feds. Once this begins to happen, 'the rights' of states will disappear completely along with any independence from the federal-government. Remember the formula upon which bailouts are based: The crucial money provided is conditioned upon a federal "ownership stake" in everything that needs the money, and when this is applied to the states then all they have left to trade with is their broken-economies and their people who shall both become the property of the federal government that is today a private-corporation that serves only the privately-owned central banks and by extension the multi-national corporations. This is about to happen now to several states, including California; the sixth largest economy in the world. (2)
 
'BTW the "corporation" mentioned above has been bankrupt since 1933, and the result of that bankruptcy is that the USA went into receivership to the privately-owned Federal Reserve. The Dictator was correct when he said: "The constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper," he was actually telling the truth. It was probably the only truthful statement he ever made in nearly eight years.
The owners have simply allowed us to believe we have a constitution. Every law, code and statute world wide is based on the Uniform Commercial Code and has been in place since 1950. Of course no one in a position of power ever bothered to mention this to us did they? One must understand the UCC to understand how and why so many have gotten away with so much: And now they are upping the ante, to take it all.'
 
This explains why every courtroom and every government building has flags hanging that really are not American flags even though they appear to be. Each of them has gold/yellow fringe around them. They give us smoke and mirrors that mask what they created, which allows them to continue to say 'we have a constitution and a democracy.' Of course America was created to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic. The rights of the few and the many, can only be protected under a Republic, while under a democracy, the majority rules-absolutely.
 
There are however a few places that are still holding out against the one-world-order and the New Barbarians. Among these are Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, possibly Iran and certainly Greece.
"Socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the conservative government could no longer defend the public from rioters.
 
The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.
 
'The government cannot handle this crisis and has lost the trust of the Greek people,' Papandreou said. 'The best thing it can do is resign and let the people find a solution ... we will protect the public.'" (3)
 
If America is to survive then we must stop this wholesale giveaway of everything that was once part of this society. The relationship between profits and earnings must be freed from the stranglehold that management has created in order to siphon off all the profits and wreck the companies they work for. In addition, the idea that government can function in any capacity as a major stakeholder in any form of private enterprise beggars the imagination far beyond any real possibility for saving anything; except the criminals and their enterprises that created this "crisis" in the first place. The 'economy' must be based on a bottom-up profit motive, based on the real wages of those that create the wealth for those at the top - and not upon the insanity that it is now! People must come first, and the corporations must be controlled at every level by the public!
 
There is no longer anything like responsibility anywhere in government or the private sector to anything except what can continue to be stolen, either by flawed and fraudulent bailouts, or through the strong-arm tactics that are currently acting "under- cover of law" and that are neither legal nor functional. Obama in this venue is neither a savior, nor a friend to the people that supposedly 'elected' him-he is just the instrument of the new global-government engine designed to finish the job and to close down this nation, once and for all! Americans need to watch what happens in Greece and follow their example, if there is to be an America to fight over in the future.
 
In the meanwhile, here is some of what's happened here already.
 
"With the focus on privatization, public-private partnerships, (dismantling local control); anyone with any common sense about them can see that; incrementally the power of the people is being given over to corporate control through various venues. Once upon a time we were subjects, then citizens, and now consumers. Everything is for sale. TV 'programming' is set up to entice "consumers" through the 3000 daily ads to buy, buy, buy! Utilities-waste- nursing homes, and even the people's water (once in local control) is open to the highest bidder or those with the most influence. In "public private partnerships or privatization" (despite the lofty high pitch sales rhetoric) means only one thing, a plundering of the people's money. Profits take precedence over any and all health or environmental concerns. It's pigs at the trough time, locally- state wise and nationally. This is not just happening in one or two isolated places but across the nation. Because we are narrowly focused (many times only one newspaper) parochially; we have little to no idea of the larger picture and what is being set in place.
 
As I read of various happenings across the nation; I am struck with the usage of terms and language being introduced into the public arena; with no explanation as to their meaning (if any). I asked a state politician a few years back what this terminology we're hearing lately of, "regional or regionalization" meant? He brushed the whole thing aside as inconsequential and told me that is was of no importance. Obviously, for me, that was an unsatisfactory answer. Most especially, since on the local level, I could see that it meant a great deal. It appeared to me, that ever so insidiously, local control was gradually being usurped by "regional" control of unelected officials. Consultants (strangers) were replacing local people in places of city government (at lucrative salaries). The sense of community (calling city hall etc.) was being replaced by various business entities, having little to no attachment to the heartbeat of the people. How could they, being strangers, with no sense of native pride or concern? Words like "regional, stake holder, empowerment zones, enterprise committees, visioning councils, smart growth, sustainable development etc;" had replaced understandable language! I didn't imagine that the usage of these terms across the nation (if you look) meant "nothing"." (4)
 
It's 'Closing Time' America, because unless you begin to do more than just watch, this place won't even be a footnote to the ruin that is planned for these people and this place that once held so much promise for everyone.
 
kirwanstudios@sbcglobal.net

Well, whatever happened, I am sure glad
nm
and we all know what happened to Rome don't we? sm
The Roman empire rotted from within. They kept absorbing and absorbing immigrants until they were no long able to sustain both them and their own citizens at the same time. The infrastructure finally gave out.

Sounds familiar to me.
I believe, if this happened...and don't know where you read it...
that these were paid McCain staffers, but some misguided McCain supporters. Obama has them too...many of them came out with the nastiness about Palin. They were Obama supporters, but not Obama staffers. Big difference. Obama can't control supporters, neither can McCain.
That happened to me the last recession we had...
and it took a good 6 years to right itself after the economy straightened out. And when it did...money went right into a CD. I don't mind a little in the market but I am not young enough to wait several years for rebounding again. Sigh.
Speak of Sam, what happened to her? nm
x
I wonder what happened to Kaydie?n/m
xx
That happened to me in the last 4 elections but

why, I don't know. It could be that the post office changed our street address 4 times yet lived here since ྈ.  I wasn't on the list even though I've been registered since 1988 and voted every election. All of a sudden, I had to fill out a special form to vote. Last local primary, they wouldn't let me vote and I had to re-register. Stupid!


This year I called to make sure I was registered and they said yes. Got a new registration card with the old address on it, but no trouble this year. I was #235 at 7:30 a.m.


So, so true. This is what has happened in many

Phoenix, Arizona is one of them.  Greed from Wall Street and greed from Main Street.  After all, Phoenix was in a major housing bubble.  I sold my home in 2005 by a California investor who not wanted my house and 6 others.  My house was in a biding war.  I pockted 280,000.  Now that house in Phoenix is worth 160,000 less than what I sold it for.  In 2005, homes were selling like crazy in Phoenix.  Everyone wanted to jump on the band wagon.  California investor thought, along with so many others, they could sell in a year or two and make a profit.  Some profit, foreclosure.  Many other homeowners took out equity to buy their boats and second homes.  Now their second homes and their own home are in foreclosure.  Not so many took out equity for cars because most lease their cars in Phoenix/Scottsdale.  You rarely see a car on the road that is 5 years or older.  Country has turned to greed, me-me-me, and gotta have it NOW. 


No, this just happened in the last 2 months.
It was WALL STREET, FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC that did it, not Bush. He had nothing to do with this.
What happened to Bin Laden? sm
Watch this Clinton interview by Mike Wallace.  Clinton lets him have it with both barrels and defends why he did not get Bin Laden. 

http://crooksandliars.com/2006/09/24/fox-clinton-interview-part-1-osama-bin-laden/
You would "CARE" if it happened to YOU!
nm
Something else happened in 09/2001........ sm
My 17YO stepson was killed in a motorcycle accident in which a car pulled out in front of him. He had been taught to safely ride a motorcycle, had a helmet on, and was traveling at a safe rate of speed. Was it his fault he was killed? Was it his parents' fault he was killed? Was it the City of Mesquite's fault he was killed?

No.

It was a tragedy, but there is nothing that could have been done to keep that accident from happening from our standpoint. The only person who could have prevented it was the driver of the car who pulled out in front of him.

Sometimes things happen that are beyond our control. Bush could not have stopped the 911 disaster. He was not the pilot of any of the planes. He could not personally marshall each plane and verify each passenger on the manifest. He could not keep those planes from crashing into the Towers or the Pentagon or in the field in Pennsylvania.

I'm so sick and tired of hearing the Dems bash Bush from everything from 911 to their own bad hair days. If you are going to blame anyone in the US for 911, blame the airlines who did not have proper security in place in the event that terrorists might try something like this. Blame Clinton for not taking out Bin Laden when he had 3, count 'me, THREE chances to do so. Or better yet, blame AL Quaida for sending their terrorists off in search of their 70 virgins. I'm not the biggest Bush fan in the world, but the man does not deserve to be blamed for things he had no control over. Oh, sure, he may have known that terroist activitis were brewing, but as I said, he could not have done anything to stop what happened.
Nope. I just happened to have a day
off for a change and decided to check the board out. I see now, it was a mistake.
What ever happened to hiring someone...sm
because they were qualified - why should anything else matter, i.e. race, gender, religion, etc.?  I would think a job would be done more proficiently if you hired the person best qualified for that job! 
Whatever happened to the First Amendment?

I rarely watch Fox News because I simply don't trust them to be "fair and balanced," after actually watching them a few years ago.


However, they have the same rights as MSNBC, CNN, HLN, etc., and I think that singling them out in order to silence them goes against the First Amendment that this country stands for.


Let them fall or survive on their own merit (or lack of same).


Hey BB, what happened with O and Gitmo?
nm
What happened in 2005............sm
when Israel pulled out of Gaza? They left behind 1000 settler greenhouses to spare the jobs of the Palestinians who worked in them and how did the Palenstinians show their gratitude? By trashing the greenhouses and stealing hoses, plastic sheeting and anything else that wasn't nailed down. They then proceeded to torch 19 synagouges and then began lobing bombs into Israeli cities. Nice....real nice.

Obama is doing what basically the rest of the world is doing and that is walking on eggshells and brown-nosing to keep from upsetting the Islamic faction and he is selling Israel up the river to do it by forcing them to live in 2-state situation with some very rotten neighbors.

Israel is an ally to every nation fighting the war on Islamic terror. Those same allied nations are advancing a policy of granting statehood to terrorists sworn to the destruction of that ally.

This is exactly the scenario outlined by the Hebrew prophets as signs of the soon coming of Israel's Messiah.

The prophet Zechariah predicted the whole world would be united against Israel over the Jerusalem Question (Zechariah 12:1-3); the prophet Daniel (Daniel 9:27) predicted an agreement that seemingly settles the Temple Mount Question; and the prophet Ezekiel predicts that, in the end, Israel will still face a massive Islamic invasion reluctantly overseen by Russia and led by Persia (Iran) (Ezekiel 38:5).

Think about this for a second. Since it is absolutely illogical, and yet it is also exactly the situation we find ourselves witnessing, do you really believe it was all just a really good guess?

The wish of death posts happened

however, the moderator deleted them very quickly.  Conservatives are being attacked with no mercy on the C-board.    These people post nothing that has to do with the subject matter posted but go straight for the jugular.  You are incorrect when you say it isn't personal, because it is extremely personal at times.  One long term poster was stalked and threatened by e-mail back when posting an e-mail link was an option.  I think you are as free as anyone to post your feelings and beliefs on any board, but when those posts become personally hateful, threatening, or wishing someone death or extreme ill will then that poster be it conservative or liberal needs to go.  Recently, the most hateful posts have happened on the C-board.  The moderator has said over and over "no bashing", but they still continue to do it.  What do you expect the moderator/administrator to do?


Not that I wish you to leave, but If you don't feel comfortable posting here you certainly don't have to stay.  There might be a forum where you would feel more comfortable and better fits your posting style.  Again, this is a privately owned board, and the administrator is free to discern anyway he/she wants.  However, I think the administrator would agree EVERYONE needs to play by the rules. 


I happened 5 years ago and no one said a word. sm
What does that tell you?
What is happening now is affected by what happened then...
and the fact remains that the Democratic party did, as a whole, seek to keep African Americans enslaved and after the Republicans, led by Abe Lincoln, abolished slavery, the Democrats (and yes, a minority of southern Republicans), did effectively deny African Americans the right to vote for another 90 years. The 60's are also part of history...and it was then and only then that African Americans got the clear right to vote. I think that is a bit more than a "bad decision." And yes it has changed, albeit after the fight (the civil war) and after numerous attempts by Republican congresses to try to override it...finally enough Northern Democrats did cross over and the right to vote was given. Certainly things have changed. It is just incorrect to state that the Democratic party has always been of a "liberal" view. They have not. That does not mean that Democrats of today follow that same mantra (some do, but they are leftovers of the past). DW, it should be hurtful to know that this occurred. Revisionist history has caused the majority of African Americans in this country, in fact most young people of this country, not to know what happened in those days. I am sure if you polled African Americans on the street they would have no idea that the Democratic party and a minority of the Republican party as well sought to keep them oppressed for 90 years AFTER the Civil War. Most of them probably think the Republican party was responsible for the whole thing. And before the attacks start...I do not consider myself Republican. I have tendencies that go both ways, and I don't think there is a name for that...other than Independent.

Yes, Bush bashing is hurtful in my mind not because I am a big Bush fan, but I do not understand why some people get such joy in making fun of someone. It reminds me of kids in a schoolyard. I don't see why people can't discuss his policies they object to and that sort of thing, but the incessant ya-ya'ing about his intelligence, he's an embarrassment...yada yada. Yes, that is hurtful on a purely human level.

The past was brought up in response to someone talking about how conservatives were probably "afraid" of the Salt Lake City major because he was liberal and worked for civil rights, yada yada. While working for civil rights may be a liberal trait, as recently as the 60's it was not. I have been called down many a time for things that happened in the "past." We really cannot shove the past under the rug. It is part of who, and what, we are.

And I think we can all agree that thank God, we all learned from it.
I think what they expected to happen happened....
South Viet Nam fell and there was a blood bath. Anyone who had in any way aided the Americans were imprisoned and/or killed. And huge amounts of loss of life in Cambodia...remember the Killing Fields? When the barrier of the US was removed...free rein. Just like if you remove the barrier of the US between the Sunnis and Shiites. It will get really, really ugly and I think many thousands will die before...if indeed ever...we could go back on humanitarian missions. That is my fear.

As to chaos...actually in South Viet Nam, the chaos came before we went in...the Dem administration, wanting to stop the "spread of communism" wanted to stop the North from trying to take over the SOuth...but did not like the South's leader at the time. Sooo the CIA helped with a coup to get rid of him. They did not expect the chaos that ensued. And so we went in. Sounds sooo much like what happened to get us in Iraq...except we had not been attacked on our own soil, we had not been attacked, period. They just wanted to stop the "spread of communism." And many many MANY lives later, cut and run, did not accomplish the objective and in fact made things worse. Sound familiar? Sigh. It can happen no matter what administration, no matter what party. I personally think JFK was a good president based on history...but Viet Nam was a BAD mistake. Every bit as bad in that time as Iraq has turned out to be in this one. But do I blame JFK personally for Viet Nam. No.
Yeah. It's been a while back and a lot has happened.
That's pretty much what I meant. They held hearings, brought charges, presented their case, proved their allegations. The mandate was to decide whether or not this constituted "high crimes and misdemeanors." Perjury is not pretty...but lying about affairs is not uncommon. Lying about the war...another story. In any case, the charges failed to meet the criteria of high crimes and misdemeanors and they voted not to impeach / remove from office.

I think "booming" is a relative concept. For example, as compared to now, booming it was. Another measure might be if people were better off when he left office than we he took office. The 90s, for the most part, is remembered as a decade of prosperity. I may come back a little later and comment further because I am transcribing today, but for the time being, you may find this article of interest. Would like to hear your comments one way or the other.
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0109-04.htm

I agree with about the working class, but I do believe that generally speaking, the dollar had more purchasing power then than now. I know that as an MT and single parent, the boom sort of skipped over my house, but on the other hands, things did seem easier and better than now.

You will notice I left out a few things that others might think of as "a good thing." Restoration of the death penalty would be one....NAFTA another. IMO, NAFTA has been a disaster and I considered it to be Clinton's biggest boondoggle. For the most part, I though Clinton was a "cool" pres. I will say this much. He is doing some good things now (William J. Clinton Foundation), but aging does not seem to agree with him, in terms of his personality. He just doesn't seem quite as "cool" as he was before....maybe I've gotten older too.

I appreciate your post and may revisit this later this evening.

Does anyone know what happened to Jimmy Carter's eye?
I'm just wondering, I'm watching the democratic convention and it looks really bad! Is it an infection or something??
There is NOTHING to compare what has happened to anyone at Gitmo...
to what happened at the Hanoi Hilton. We do NOT torture anyone in that manner. Have you ever read what happened to McCain during that time? Have you seen pictures of what the man looked like when he came back??
Fox has nothing to do with it, they just happened to report it first....grow up, and allow others th
I'm starting to dislike you dems more and more every day. Keep sinking, along with that sex article you forgot to publish the link to. You are all smut and no substance, most of the time.
They forgot about 9/11 about a month after it happened.

This endorsement happened this morning....

She formally announced she is supporting McCain and will campaign for him.


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/16/prominent-clinton-backer-and-dnc-member-to-endorse-mccain/


This stuff has happened at both rallies, just not
xx
blaming someone you know nothing about for something that hasn't happened
x
Yes. Computer virus happened
the birth certificate boobs would be "highly doubtful." I'm not trying to get anyone to believe anything. I'm simply stating fact. The virus occured IMMEDIATELY after following one of these lame BC links and yes, dear, it took nearly 4 hours to get rid of it. Only wish it were that easy to purge this board of all the ignorance that surrounds these paranoid BC delusions.
What ever happened to that shotgun wedding?
Was that just another stunt by Sarah Palin for the sake of the campaign?
Whatever happened to staying on the subject? (sm)
Your post has absolutely nothing to do with the original post -- but I guess Bush is just an embarrassment for the republican party.  I guess if I had supported a war criminal [aka -- that guy with a lower approval than Nixon (who resigned)] I wouldn't have anything to say on the subject either.
So tell me - what other atrocity on US soil has happened
since the towers. I can't think of a single one.

America is safer because of the policies in place.
So was Bill Clinton..you know what happened there! nm
//
So what happened to you? Violated by a priest?
n/m