There are protests, they just go unreported. sm

• Charles Ferguson is a hero! - piglet
  • There are protests, they just go unreported. sm - LVMT
  • Viet Nam revisited... - Observer
    • Iraqi terrorist training camps? - Taiga
      • I beg to differ.... - Observer
        • More like outdated and slanted memory! - Taiga
          • It does not matter who reported it, Taiga... - Observer
            • BUt that's the most important thing to me.... - Taiga
              • Apparently you did not look far enough for the quote... - Observer
                • a few points - Taiga
                  • Which makes my point....yeah,.... - Observer
    • Absolutely not... - piglet
      • Bremer's bio, just to set the record straight.... - Observer
        • a few parts you omitted from your cut and paste - Taiga
          • I cut and pasted the portions that had to do with... - Observer
        • Lovely piece of garbage. - piglet
          • Armitage? Richard Armitage? - Observer
            • I figured he'd be right up your alley... - piglet
              • Right back at ya..lol nm - Observer
      • Yes, definitely ignore the past if it does not... - Observer
        • It is nice to look to the future and not the past. - piglet
          • Tell you what, why don't we go together... - Observer
            • Arrogant, very arrogant... - piglet
              • Protection, piglet..... - Observer
                • Obviously you do not read my posts for content. - piglet
                  • I understood you perfectly....pull out the military.... - Observer
                • Bubbles aside..... - Taiga
                  • I think what they expected to happen happened.... - Observer

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March 17, 2007 thousands of anti-war protesters will participate in a march in D.C. set to start at The Wall and work to the Pentagon.  It will be led by Cindy Sheehan, Jane Fonda, Ramsey Clark, and probably a few other hollywood glitterarti.    American protesters and their allies in the liberal news media have been comparing our military operations in Iraq to the Viet Nam War for a long time. I'm beginning to see their point.

I'm worried that our war against Islamic fundamentalism in Iraq is going to turn into Viet Nam, by which I mean that once the U.S. leaves, millions of people will lose any hope of freedom and democracy and a dangerous and violent ideology will have gained ground in the world, all because irresponsible and misinformed liberals turned public opinion against the war and encouraged our enemies.

If you want to protest a war before it starts in order to try and influence the government's decision to go to war, that's one thing. It's another thing entirely to root for America's defeat in the middle of a war. If U.S. troops pulled out of Iraq now, there'd be nothing else to call it but defeat. Anti-war protesters have a number of arguments to defend themselves with, but the bottom line is that our boys, and these days, our girls too, are over there trying to win a war. If you're protesting this war, you're not helping.

One of the first arguments you'll hear from the anti-war crowd is that political protest is a patriotic exercise of their constitutional rights. I'm not denying that it's their right. Just because something is legal under the Supreme Court's latest interpretation of the Constitution, it doesn't mean that it is morally OK - eminent domain, anyone? And protesting a war while your country is fighting it is not patriotic by any stretch. I don't understand how you can love your country so much that you want it to lose a war and will march in the streets demanding that it surrender.

Another argument you'll hear is that Cindy Sheehan and others who have lost children in Iraq have absolute moral authority, as New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd put it. One wonders if Ms. Dowd believes that pro-war activists who have lost children in Iraq have the same absolute moral authority. God has absolute moral authority. Human beings do not. To publicly denounce the very ideals that these men died fighting for, however, is to dishonor their sacrifices. Casey Sheehan, like many of the men and women in our all-volunteer army, believed strongly in what he was fighting for. While it's impossible to know what he would have wanted, I think it's safe to guess that Casey Sheehan would not have wanted anyone, no less his own mother, to use the spotlight of his heroism and his death to say that the cause he believed in, enough so that he was willing to give his life for it, was unjust.

The most powerful argument the anti-war protesters have on their side is their genuine concern for our men and women serving in uniform. They can't support the troops without supporting the war, but they care about our soldiers so much that they want them to come home safely, and as soon as possible, even before their job is done. Call me naive, but I do believe that some anti-war activists sincerely mean well. That being said, keep in mind what road is paved with good intentions.

Whether they are doing it intentionally or not, anti-war protesters are hurting our side and helping the enemy. Jim Mueller, the new national commander of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, said that anti-war protesters will eventually devastate troop morale, just like they did in the 1960s. Mueller remarked, Morale means everything on the field of battle, but good morale starts at home, and that's why the [Veterans of Foreign Wars] is so concerned with this upcoming protest.

Anti-war protesters don't just lower the morale of our own troops; they boost the morale of our enemy. According to the organization Accuracy In Media, soldiers who have come back from Iraq have reported that anti-war protests help the enemy fight harder. In the 1960s, the North Vietnamese knew that anti-war protests were helping them win the war. James Stockdale, a real American hero who might be best known as Ross Perot's 1992 running mate, recalls an interrogation he endured in 1966 when he was a prisoner of war in Vietnam. His captor, Nguyen Khac Vien, said to him, Our country has no capability to defeat you on the battlefield. Vien's next words became an immortal slogan of the enemy. He added, We will win this war on the streets of New York.

I need to clarify one final point and then I am done with this.  I have to tell you, some of the remarks here have caused me great worry and torment.  I don't think everyone has to support the war, but no one should undermine troop morale by protesting. There is certainly room for academic debate about whether or not it was the right choice to go to war. I think it's wrong to protest in the middle of a war, but I also believe that before and after the war, it is important for there to be a serious and critical discussion of American foreign policy. But when anti-war protesters call for America's defeat during the war, they're undermining our mission and supporting our enemies. Even if they have the best intentions, anti-war activists aren't doing anyone any favors. The more difficult they make it for our soldiers to do their job, the longer it's going to take before they can come home.  In that sense, it definitely is another Viet Nam.

They're telling people whose homes are up for foreclosure to stay in their homes even if they are taken off to jail.

A spokesperson for the group believes that everyone should get new mortgages, even those that are in homes that they can't afford. (I've been trying to find that article.)

http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/2749/t/3071/signUp.jsp?key=2134

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/10/AR2009021001271.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/nyregion/18foreclose.html?_r=2&ref=nyregion

Planned "Tea Party" protests.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510129,00.html

I read a daily blog on Key West real estate and today's posting happened to be on a slightly different subject.

Apparently Fred Phelps and his minions are planning on a trip to Key West to demonstrate their hate of not only gay people but the USA.

Can we take them down as the terrorist organization they are yet? One of his cohorts is already down there:

====================================================

The Key West community will meet tonight to decide whether -- and if so, how -- to respond to a nationally infamous man who hates homosexuals.

The Rev. Fred Phelps, head of the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas, is scheduled to be in Key West on May 22 to protest the Gay/Straight Alliance at Key West High School. Phelps also is planning to demonstrate at the entrance to the island, in front of Sigsbee Park and at B'Nai Zion synagogue, according to a letter Phelps' daughter sent to Police Chief Donie Lee.

The group is planning an outdoor demonstration "regarding the judgment of God with respect to the dangers of promoting homosexuality, and the rest of the filthy manner of life and idol worshipping in this country," the letter states. The city does not require a permit for such assemblies.

Phelps' church is not recognized by mainstream Baptists and is monitored by the Anti-Defamation League as a hate group. His "church" comprises mostly his family members, about 60 of whom are said to protest three times a day, with signs that read, "God Hates Fags" and other anti-homosexual slurs. The church also protests at military funerals, claiming the deaths are the result of America's tolerance of homosexuality.

The Rev. Joe McMurray, pastor of the gay-friendly Metropolitan Community Church, where tonight's meeting will be held, said he does not think that Anthony Charles Capo Jr., who often holds a sign that says "God Hates Fags.com" on Key West street corners, is formally connected with the Kansas group.

Meeting organizers will solicit ideas from community members and law enforcement officials, said McMurray. The gathering will include the police chief, Schools Superintendent Randy Acevedo and some city commissioners.

"We can come together and decide if there will be a response, and what it would be," McMurray said. "We'll also hear from law enforcement to see what they prefer in the interest of public safety."

The Police Department is developing an operational plan for Phelps' demonstration, but Lee emphasized that the general public should ignore Phelps.

"I know it's difficult and I know, firsthand, that it's an emotional issue, but as far as I'm concerned, that's the way to deal with it," said Lee, who is gay. Any demonstrations from counter-protesters would only make it more difficult for officers to keep the peace, Lee said.

Phelps' First Amendment rights allow him and his followers to express their opinions, and the police cannot arrest them for doing so.

Lee explained that if someone says something that directly creates a public safety issue, then the situation changes. He used the example of someone yelling "fire" in a crowded theater as an example that would jeopardize public safety and therefore be an arrestable offense.

"Short of that, people have the right to express their opinion," Lee said.

McMurray said he does not know what prompted Phelps to target the high school group in a town known for its acceptance of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people, and its official motto of "One Human Family."

"I don't know if anybody has the 'why' behind Fred Phelps," McMurray said. "He wants to come disrupt, create unease and disturb the peace in a peace-loving community, and he raises money by suing municipalities who violate his civil rights during protests. He intimidates communities."

McMurray and others hope to hear ideas that would turn Phelps' protest into something positive for the community. One option would be a fundraiser for every hour that Phelps is here. People could make an hourly pledge to local charities such as AIDS Help and the Gay and Lesbian Community Center, so the longer Phelps remained in town, the more money he would help raise for gay-friendly service organizations.

"This cannot be personal," said McMurray, who is gay. "Once it becomes personal, we're operating on his level."

J.T. Thompson, a graphic designer who founded the "One Human Family" movement, emphasized that confrontation with Phelps and his group will not serve any purpose.

"This guy earns a living making confrontations happen," Thompson said. "It will be a good day in the fact that we can unite people here. The meeting will gather input to unite the community in a peaceful, positive and loving response."