There are many families of the fallen who praise Bush and I'm not outraged. sm
Posted By: Democrat on 2005-08-10
In Reply to: It does not negate the fact that President Bush SM - Brunson
I don't understand them, but there's no outrage.
Like I said before grief is different for everyone and for people to continue to say "she's done a 360," to me is not really relevent. Most intelligent people know that grief has stages and this lady is entitled to change her mind, her feelings. That's something the neocons can't grasp, why I'm not sure. Maybe after reality and permancy set in, her feelings changed. This lady has lost her son, and you actually think she's camping out for political reasons. I mean come on. That's a ridiculous argument.
I dont think that he HAS to speak to the lady again because he has already had his press time with her while she praised him, BUT what does he have to lose by speaking with this lady again.
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95 percent of WORKING families, not welfare families sm
Working families will get the tax break, not welfare families. The money will come from removing the tax breaks for the rich. Obama is going back to the exact tax structure Clinton had. That is when we were in the black. Bush came into office and gave the rich a break. Very simple to understand, but I guess not for Fox news watchers.
When they praise our TAT
Its like they're congratulating us for losing money.
fallen for the
Fox mythology. Go ahead on and believe what you wish. The majority of the people in the US have awakened from their delusions.
For those of you who praise
Obama for wanting universal health care....please check this out. Obviously the Obama administration thinks that too many Americans have unnecessary procedures like tonsillectomies and hysterectomies, etc. Gee.....and you think insurance companies won't pay for anything....just wait until Obama takes over.
http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/04/27/lott_obama_health_care/
I think these are fallen soldiers...nm
Exactly what are you outraged about
Rush was just reading actual articles of studies that have been released in the last week. Are you outraged about the studies, or that Rush was was being funny in saying Bush is killing the poor.
When the left has time to spin the stories I'm sure there will be articles insinuating that Bush is the reason for the poor's obesity problem. I mean, everything's his fault, right? That's the satire, but actually there's a lot of truth in it. If you think that's sick than so be it. Don't listen or read Rush. He's been ruffling feathers for years, and millions of people listen to his show, and it's the #1 talk radio show in America. You can be outraged all you want, but a lot of people agree with him and understand his sense of humor. At least us Rush fans aren't out making fantasy movies about presidents we would like to see assassinated. That's truly sick,
Good, then since you followed her, you know that originally she had nothing but praise SM
for President Bush, right? He met with her and she thought he was WONDERFUL. So since you have followed her, you do remember that part, right?
These are fallen soldiers not WTC victims
And the why is pretty clear. By the way, this was addressed to Liberals who definitely understand and appreciate the ***why***
And I'm not talking about poor who have fallen
xx
If Biden or Obama was on there, you would praise
nm
damned by faint praise
to be endorsed by regulars on this board - har har.
McCain gives praise to Obama...sm
This is for all of you who constantly pick on Obama and hope for Obama's downfall.
Cheers to McCain....... a respectable and decent loser!
McCain: Obama has 'done well' as president so far
WASHINGTON – Sen. John McCain says his opponent in last year's presidential campaign, Barack Obama, has "done well" in his first five months in the White House.
The Arizona Republican says that using a legislative scorecard to judge the presidency so far, Obama has achieved all his legislative goals.
On the down side, McCain says that Obama's successes in Congress have come with little or no Republican support.
McCain also is critical of Obama for setting a date for closing the detainee facility at Guantanamo Bay without first developing a comprehensive plan for what to do with its prisoners.
And the Arizona senator says Obama should speak out more in support of protesters in Iran.
McCain appeared Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation."
No, I am outraged that you assume so very much.
/
I'm sorry if I came across as rude. Outraged is more like it.
Outraged that a handful of Republican politicians would sell out American troops to a bunch of terrorists, even in a symbolic gesture. Outraged that their lives should be used in a political stunt. This is very frustrating for me. I think our lawmakers should support our troops in every way possible, and I believe it's unacceptable to agree to amnesty for anyone who kills our troops.
We have already far exceeded our budget to the limit because of this needless personal war of George W. Bush. We provided Iraqis with free medical care. We will be supplying them with countless more money for decades to come. Our troops continue to be killed and wounded. I don't care what the political stakes are. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should their lives be used as pawns any more than they already have been. For God's sake, don't they deserve the support (regardless of how symbolic it is) from ALL members of the party that sent them there?
I posted comments by two lawmakers regarding this, but you didn't choose to address the content of what I posted. I've noticed that happens a lot on these boards. When someone posts anything questioning another's viewpoint, particularly if they corroborate their views, instead of debating the issue, all they do is become indignant, call names and then pretend to leave. If that's your communication style preference, you'd feel right at home on the Conservative Board.
I asked you to enlighten me. Instead of doing so, you became angry, called me rude, picked up your toys and left the playground.
I'm asking you again to enlighten me because nowhere did I see it written that this is to take effect once we leave. Please provide a link to that effect. If you'd like to debate the issue, please do so. I agree with Harold Ford that this was nothing more than a stunt. Do you think this will boost the morale of our soldiers? What are your views? Please share them. Or not.
Your choice.
well not every celebrity has fallen under Obama's Spell
Good for them for going against the norm!
Oh well. Looks like libs have fallen back into favor.
is how we stage our revolutions. This one is long overdue and while lamenting this cruel turn of events, you might want to ask yourself why all this is happening. Could it be that W, his cronies and right-wing fringers have overplayed their hand and the voters are fed up with lies, deception, misinformation, politics of fear, division and the culture war, and yet the McCain camp keeps right on keepin' on. When you do a poor job, you get fired. That's the way it works. Change is what they want and change is what they are going to get. We are getting ready to write a new chapter in our history that will move us far beyond that mentality and will thrust us onto the threshold of the post post-911 era. I can't wait to get started and thank God I have managed to live long enough to watch it all unfold.
The conservative way....but that's fallen out of favor this cycle....you'd all rather pay out
even if they did Americans would be outraged when the prices went up
we all want our cake and eat it too, that's the problem. You can't pay Americans good wages and expect cheap products. I'm not saying i'm for or against outsourcing but that's just the way it is.
Obama camp outraged...
by the tough questions a conservative reporter asked Joe Biden. Boycotting the station. And said, are you ready, that that same reporter gave McCain softball questions. Well hellooo....welcome to the real world, guys!! Can you believe it? Whine, whine. You asked Joe hard questions about Marxism and Obama facing a crisis during his first 6 months (Joe's own quote) and that is NOT FAIR because you did not ask McCain hard questions. And what has been the life of McCain and Sarah Palin with all mainstream media? Hard questions. Obama and Biden? Major softball questions. They got the tables turned on them and squealed like pigs stuck under a gate. They need to do what they told Sarah Palin to do...GET TOUGH. Ha! When given the choice to run with the big dogs or stay on the porch....they are whining on the porch. UNbelievable!!
The governor of my state is outraged over this
nm
Did you feel as outraged when the same joke
Just wondering if you are getting all exercised about the joke itself or the butt of it.
I see that no liberal on this board was outraged by your post...sm
Did you also see in the news about the walls outside of congressional offices, new furniture being thrown out, as well as files and files of personal info?
Where is the outrage about this? I could only find it on Fox, so obviously the liberal media could care less.
I guess this has been going on for some time, but still....it really makes me mad....
....just like the fact that they voted themselves raises and are hoping no one would notice........
Obama's suspension request draws IMMEDIATE PRAISE from across the globe.
A few hours after being sworn in, US President Barack Obama has asked prosecutors to seek a suspension of Guantanamo military trials, a decision welcomed by the world as a first step towards its closure.
"In the interests of justice, and at the direction of the president of the US and the secretary of defense, the government respectfully requests the military commission grant a continuance of the proceedings," said prosecution documents cited by Agence France Presse (AFP).
Obama wants all pending cases, including the trial of five on charges of plotting 9/11 and Canadian Omar Khadr for allegedly killing a US soldier in Afghanistan, suspended for 120 days.
"[This would] permit the newly inaugurated president and his administration time to review the military commissions process, generally, and the cases currently pending before military commissions, specifically."
Military judges will decide on Obama's request later on Wednesday, January 21.
The special military tribunals for Guantanamo detainees were established in 2006 by the Bush administration to try them under separate rules from regular civilian or military courts.
The Bush administration has declared the hundreds of detainees held at Guantanamo as unlawful enemy combatants to deny them legal rights under the American legal system.
Twenty-one people have been charged and 14 out of an estimated 245 remaining prisoners have appeared before judges.
The Pentagon had refused to unveil the body of evidence to justify the prisoners' continued detention, claiming it would endanger national security.
Obama has vowed to close the notorious detention center.
His attorney general designate Eric Holder said this month that the military commissions did not provide enough legal protections to the defendants and that the Obama team was already taking steps to close Guantanamo.
Welcomed
Obama's suspension request draw immediate praise from across the globe.
Tell that to the families of the 100,000
Bet they might beg to differ.
I am sorry for their families.
x
Yes, there are other families (liberals)
with the same problems as well. Bush's family seems to take the lead as far as number of people who are drunks or drug addicts.
Now, if you don't mind, I think I will stop responding to your posts. It's much more entertaining watching you talking to yourself on this board.
I hope you find the attention you so desperately seek, but you're not getting any more of it from me.
Have a pleasant day, dear. 
Tell that to the 7300 families who are..sm
without jobs. How are they different from DHL's 9000????
The point is that America is crumbling down around our ears faster than we can sweep up. I'm not blaming Bush, I'm not blaming Obama. I am just stating the obvious. America is dying..........is there a doctor in the house?
I never ever judge people by their families. sm
I hope no one ever judges me by mine! No, I don't think he meant what he said. I believe they mean he was a deputy for 17 years. It said 17-year, not year-old. :)
Kids from families making as much as $83,000
Bush was lying about that, as the $83,000 income level limit was not a part of the bill that he vetoed. Also, Democrats already worked with Republicans and compromised quite a bit to come up with a bill that many in both parties agreed upon - too bad only one guy matters, huh? It's a sad day for many struggling middle-class families, but at least the issue has had a big spot light shined upon it - hopefully we can make some much-needed changes to make healthcare more affordable now. All kids deserve healthcare, regardless of how much money their parents make or don't make!!!
Here's a section of a New York Times Article that states that the $83,000 guideline was not a part of the bill that was just vetoed:
"This program expands coverage, federal coverage, up to families earning $83,000 a year. That doesn't sound poor to me," the president told the Lancaster audience.
Dorn says that's not exactly right, either. "This bill would actually put new limits in place to keep states from going to very high-income levels. SCHIP money would no longer be available over 300 percent of the federal poverty level, which is about $60,000 for a family of four."
The president gets to make the $83,000 claim because New York had wanted to allow children in families with incomes up to four times the poverty level onto the program. That is, indeed, $82,600. The Department of Health and Human Services rejected New York's plan last month, and under the bill, that denial would stand. White House officials warn, however, that the bill would allow a future administration to grant New York's request.
link to the entire article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14962685
You have an issue...dissecting families.
Nice.
You are right, both sides have beautiful families sm
Obamas/Biden's and McCain/Palin.
Though, I don't know how real Cindy McCain is.
O will cut taxes for 95% to benefit WC families.
Then ask yourself which group you fall into. If you are in the top 5% economic class or area huge corporation, then by all means you should not vote for O. Take off your party hat and give this some real consideration.
The money from employees and their families...
is called "bundling." Lobbyists use "bundling" to get around finance limits.
The donkey in the room here, that you seem content to ignore, is that the Democrats, including Barack Obama, created this mess. They had a chance to stop it in 2005-2006 and did not. That is a fact. McCain tried to get legislation passed, they balked. If they did not do it for mnoney, I don't know why they did it...but the fact is, they did it, and WE are left holding the bag. And now, when Obama has a chance to help fix it, he is refusing again. Said "call me if you need me." Well I want a President I don't have to call. I expect when he is "multitasking" that he prioritizes, and the looming economic failure and the $700 billion it is going to take to get us out of it, is more important than a debate. What difference does 3 days make in the face of that?
Families abandon their own a lot anymore.
nm
Many of them are innocent and should be sent home to their families.
You should be more frightened of the American prisoners than the alleged terrorists that we have illegally held in Gitmo and tortured with the permission of George W. Bush and his cronies.
I am guessing Fort Leavenworth was there before you took up residence. If you don't like living near a prison, you are free to move.
Exactly. News states that 9/11 families
take the terrorists in his district of Pennsylvania.
U.S. Cole Families are supposedly
going to be on Fox news "later today." Just heard this. Supposedly they were at the White House in a meeting and after they left the meeting, they were not allowed back on the White House grounds. So, they're all going to Fox News to be interviewed.
U.S. Cole Families are supposedly
going to be on Fox news "later today." Just heard this. Supposedly they were at the White House in a meeting and after they left the meeting, they were not allowed back on the White House grounds. So, they're all going to Fox News to be interviewed.
Obama and USS Cole families
"It has been reported that the mother of one of the men killed on the USS Cole regrets that she voted for Obama, so there is at least 1 person who does not support him. "
Obama met with the families of the USS Cole, talked to them and listened to their concerns. That shows a lot of class and compassion. He explained that those who are responsible and need to be detained will be, and those who are not guilty will not be held. The one who just had the charges dropped will be recharged. They are trying to resolve the illegality/nebulous state of affairs at Guantanamo - not release dangerous terrorists into our midst. These, despite Rush's insistence, are not mutually inclusive terms.
Just saw 911 families speaking of their disgust with
nm
Yes, but families are in Mexico and South America.
That was my point. Of course, I have no idea what prices are down there. Never been.
Feelings, goals, interests, families...
yes. Normal no. Tolerance is far different than acceptance. I and no one in my huge family has ever harmed a person who indulges in homosexual acts. We are as tolerant as you can get as I imagine millions of others are. Just saying that homosexuality is wrong is construed to be intolerance or verbal abuse by the homosexual community.
I posted under Libby's post which brother up *other* families
Libby made it fair game. She brought it up...
Other addicted Americans aren't putting people in jail or ripping apart families for drug crimes.
nm
Republicans favor giving poor families subsidies to afford private schools. Obama opposed.
Yet Obama sends his daughters to a private school, 29,000 for EACH KID. Hypocrisy, here we come. Geesh, not even in office yet.
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Yeah right. Served under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II
x
Stop bringing up Bush - this post was not about Bush
I even said we have had some good presidents and some bad ones, but this post was not about Bush. It was about Obama. Yes Bush was one of the worst presidents I'm not arguing with you on that one, but everytime anyone brings up something about our current president they are shot back with Bush this or Bush that and on things that have nothing to do with what the current topic is about. Again, this was not about Bush. It was about Obama.
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