The stuff from China may be cheap

• what if? - hang on a minute
  • Well you know what? s/m - gourdpainter
  • Huckabee spoke about this the other day - very concerning
    • I watched a whole thing on China - Chele
      • The stuff from China may be cheap - Old part-timer
        • I'm with you there.....BUY AMERICAN!! - MSMT
        • I'm with ya. - Chele
          • It's not easy - Old part-timer
          • I'm a chevy girl!!! - but I like saving money.
            • the majority of chevy vehicles - are made up of
              • Would you rather buy - Chele
                • American made - gourdpainter
                • I'm with you on the chevy/ford thing -- - but I like saving money.
              • that's probably why I can afford them - but I like saving money.
  • CNBC - hang on a minute
    • Maybe they're falling because Coke is better. - Always has been!
      • I would have to disagree. Pepsi much better! - Chele
        • Coke vs. Pepsi - Old part-timer
          • not to put too fine a point on it, but - hang on a minute
    • Behind the scenes manipulation......wait for that - MERGER that's about to happen......sm
    • Be Patriotic - hang on a minute
      • Your logic makes no sense at all - MSMT
        • Bush told us to go to Disneyland - hang on a minute
          • You forgot what Obama said.......hmmmmmm? - do your homework
            • Did I steal his Pepsi drinking idea?....nm - hang on a minute
              • That's the point ; you don't know what he has said - or done for that matter NM

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torture techniques.

The only **cheap methods* come from angry ignorant neocons who try to bully and threaten others on a computer message board because their team lost. Get over it and yourself already and seek some help for your anger and superiority issues. Too bad you don't support your country but fortunately the majority of people do.

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/rep-john-boehner-admits-torture-was-use

Especially Reagan, but nothing new. 

The Chickenhawk argument goes something like this: anyone who favors military action should not be taken seriously unless they themselves are willing to go and do the actual fighting. This particular piece of work is an anti-war crowd attempt to silence the debate by ruling that the other side is out of bounds for the duration. Like all ad hominem attacks, (argumentum ad hominem means “argument against the person”) it is an act of intellectual surrender. The person who employs an ad hominem attack is admitting they cannot win the debate on merit, and hope to chuck the entire thing out the window by attacking the messenger. This is a logical fallacy of the first order, because the messenger is not the message.

The messenger is not the message. That’s all you need to throw away the entire Chickenhawk response. But why stop there when this one is so much fun?

If you are ever see this charge again, you may want to reflect that person’s own logical reasoning in the following fashion: You may not talk about education unless you are willing to become a teacher. You may not discuss poverty unless you yourself are willing to go and form a homeless shelter. How dare you criticize Congress unless you are willing to go out and get elected yourself? Your opinion on a National Health Care System is negated out of hand since you are unwilling to get a medical degree and open a clinic. And as far as your opinions regarding the Democratic Underground or The Huffington Post are concerned, well, you can just keep them to yourself, mister, unless you can produce an advanced degree in Abnormal Psychology and Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Using the internal reasoning behind the Chickenhawk argument means you cannot comment on, speak about or even hold an opinion on any subject that is not part of your paying day job. It is simple-minded and profoundly anti-democratic, which is why it so deeply appeals to those who sling it around the most.

But wait! There’s more!

If you accept the Chickenhawk argument – that only those actually willing to go and fight have a legitimate opinion on the subject of war – then that means that any decision to go to war must rest exclusively in the hands of the military. Is that what this person really wants? To abandon civilian control of the military? That’s the box they have trapped themselves in with this argument. Now to be perfectly honest, I think Robert Heinlein made a very compelling case for just this line of reasoning in Starship Troopers (the book, not the clueless projected travesty). Heinlein said that the only people who should be allowed to vote are those that have served in the military, since only they are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of the state. I don’t agree with that. I think civilian control of the military has been one of the pillars of our nation’s success, and it has withstood the test of both World Wars and Civil ones. But that is the world you are stuck in when you toss that little Chickenhawk grenade.

Finally, if the only legitimate opinion on Iraq, say, is that held by the troops themselves, then they are overwhelmingly in favor of being there and finishing what they started. I recently received an e-mail from an Army major who is heading back for his fourth tour. The Chickenhawk argument, coming from an anti-war commentator, legitimizes only those voices that overwhelmingly contradict the anti-war argument.

Bill Whittle wrote that. He's a real live veteran and I happen to agree with him.

CHEAP TOMATOES?

This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent

From a California school teacher - - -

"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels.

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK )

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America . (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much he*l with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" whores and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc., etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements ?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it . Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 an d that refuses to assimilate , and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about " political Correctness " that we don't have the will to do anything about it.

If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.

CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.

Consumers don't want expensive produce.

Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth , a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.

He qualifies for food stamps.

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.

His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.

He requires bilingual teachers and books.

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare . All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense .

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'

THIS HAS GOT TO BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE.

they would have already done it when the economic crisis hit.  We already owe them tons of money.  I think they would make out better collecting interest off us than spending their resources trying to "control" us, which would eventually lead to yet another war.  What I think should be in the bill is help for those who need it immediately (the ones who have already lost jobs and extending state funds to make budgets) and infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure, green job advancement.  This can't be outsourced, it generates revenue, it provides jobs, and its needed.  The more people we put back to work or keep at work, the better chance we have of paying these bills off through taxable income.

I know it looks like an enormous amount of money to be going into debt for (and it is), but at this point I don't think we have any choice.  If you want to talk national security, a depression would leave us much more vulnerable than being in debt.  Being vulnerable is not an option at this point. 

and how we can buy things so cheap at Walmart because the Chinese work for little money.  If the things we bought at Walmart were actually made here in the USA by Americans.....it would be a lot more expensive because Americans demand higher paying jobs.  That is the thing.  We are kind of screwed both ways.  Do we keep the job here in American and pay a heck of a lot more money for things we get cheap now or do we continue to keep China in business by sending our jobs over there.  Kind of a double-edge sword when you think about it. 

I personally think that we should bite the bullet and pay more for American made goods so we can keep jobs here in America.  The more we want cheaper stuff, the more we will be buying stuff made in China and the less jobs we have in America.

...which has been the biggest foreign purchaser of our Treasury bonds and notes.  Now, I see that they're also over here snapping up foreclosure properties. America is for sale.

I don't think most Americans realize that the nation would actually be declared bankrupt if normal accounting methods that are required of businesses were used by the government.  Our total forward indebtedness (which is different from "the deficit") is something like $16 trillion dollars - a sum that is greater than the combined gross domestic product of the entire world.  "Indebtedness" includes anticipated obligations under various welfare programs, Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security, and our contractual obligations represented by Treasury bonds, notes and bills - which are nothing more or less than loans we have to repay.  When you hear people talking about the Federal Reserve "selling" these instruments, they're not selling anything...they're borrowing!  If you "purchase" a $1000 Treasury bill at par value, you give the government $1000 dollars, in exchange for which you will be paid a stated rate of interest and, then at some stated time in the future the government will pay you  the face value of the bill ($1000).  In other words, you have loaned the government $1000 for a certain period of time. 

Foreign governments "buy" these instruments just like citizens do.  To make a long story short, we (the government = taxpayers = you and I, my kids, my grandkids and any kids they have)  owe the world about a $kajillion worth of these loans. 

.

China leads the New World Order.

Don't believe it?  Look at Bush toasting the commie leaders... all of our trade deals with them...Who has us by the balls financially.... A huge component of the creation of the North American Union is megaports on the Western coast to accommodate huge Chinese tankers.... Look at Paulson and his ties with commie China.... The lone Republican lawmaker who voted against Berancke's confirmation says that Bernacke has extensive ties to commie China so it is a conflict of interest...

The above is just a sampling. The bottom line is that we will wind up just like China, with slave labor, before it's all over with.

Hubby was telling me last night that China's economy is now tanking because ours is.  Factory workers over there were showing up for work only to find their business had closed because of lack of orders from the U.S.  India may be next.  You never know.  I don't see it happening with MT but like I said, you just don't know.  Did you see their work days?  6 days a week and something like 12 or 14 hours a day?

I hear lip service from Nobama/Maobama about cutting taxes to bring our businesses back but don't see him acting on it.  He's a one-termer.  Carter got us in a heap of trouble which Reagan (I know union employees aren't fond of him) had to get us out of.  All Nobama is doing is having construction/building jobs sprout up here and there.  And where does the money come from to pay for his multi-trillion dollar spending?  You got it - us.  Those jobs will eventually fizzle out, our country will be poorer and those people will once again be unemployed.. 

Dems coined the phrase Voodoo Economics for Reagan's Trickle Down Economics.  Whether or not you liked the man, he did a world of good for this country.  He did cut capital gains taxes and cut taxes for the rich.  Trickle down 101:  You cut taxes for the rich, they can afford to hire more employees, more often than not, at better wages.  Unemployment is down.  People go out and spend more money because they are employed and can afford to.  During Reagan's terms in office, he cut taxes immensely yet the government took in more money.  People would much rather spend their money the way they want than have the government take it and spend it.  

Folks, we work for our government.  Our government should be working for us.  We should not live in fear of the IRS.  I attended a TEA party on April 15 and will attend more such events.  We should have a government for the people, of the people and by the people.  The protest was very peaceful and guess what?  Not a bit of litter was left to be found when it ended, like the disgrace that was left after the inauguration in Washington, DC. 

We are getting so far away from a constitutional government, it's not funny.  Actually, my opinion is that we are currently a socialist government.  You know the next step after socialism?  Communism. 

I read the most recent list of who they consider a terrorist.  Hoarding food?  Um, yep.  Better buy it now in case a depression hits.  Glad I have a breadmaker.  Wouldn't want to have to spend $50 on a loaf of bread.  Buying lots of ammo?  Sure, but then again, we do competition shooting.  Guns?  Yeah, we have our share, but variety is the spice of life (Hubby bought me a Macarov but I didn't care for the way it operated (too hard to load the mag), especially after the slide came back and sliced my thumb open 5 times, bad lacerations - my fault, was handling it wrong, so I got a Glock).  My husband is an Iraqi war vet.  That makes us both domestic terrorists.  Yet neither one of us even has the heart to even discipline our dogs.  We're both very gentle people.  Of course if someone broke into our home, we would defened ourselves. 

I'm sorry for the rant but I just don't see Nobama caring much about outsourcing.  I really really really hope I am wrong and what he is doing for our country is the right thing but I truly resent being labeled a domestic terrorist because I see us headed for a depression and am stocking up on food, and my husband happened to be in the military during the Gulf war. 

Thanks for listening.