The catholic school offered several choices of
Posted By: religious teachings! DUH!! on 2009-05-07
In Reply to: Are you really not getting this? - AnnuderMT
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huh? He did this after school hours, in the catholic school...nm
nm
o.k., inside the catholic school....nm
nm
bone up - he also attended Catholic school
so do you think he is the antichrist now?
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/
He attended only 4 years in this Catholic School in Jakarta,
1st to 5th grade, age 7-11 years, from 1968 till 1972.
Can you beat my research?
I don't believe those are our only two choices, thanks.
And the science has NOT yet demonstrated that we need any such choices at all.
Read up. Get educated.
chicago offered help
Chicago offered help as early as last SUNDAY...Bush
says No Thanks
Daley 'shocked' as feds reject aid
September 3, 2005
BY STEPHANIE ZIMMERMANN AND SCOTT FORNEK Staff
Reporters
A visibly angry Mayor Daley said the city had offered
emergency, medical and technical help to the federal
government as early as Sunday to assist people in the
areas stricken by Hurricane Katrina, but as of Friday,
the only things the feds said they wanted was a single
tank truck.
That truck, which the Federal Emergency Management
Agency requested to support an Illinois-based medical
team, was en route Friday.
We are ready to provide more help than they have
requested. We are just waiting for their call, said
Daley, adding that he was shocked that no one seemed
to want the help.
Meanwhile, U.S. Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) said he
would call for congressional hearings into the federal
government's preparations and response.
The response was achingly slow, and that, I think, is
a view shared by Democrats, Republicans, wealthy and
poor, black and white, the freshman senator said. I
have not met anybody who has watched this crisis
evolve over the last several days who is not just
furious at how poorly prepared we appeared to be.
Response 'baffling'
The South Side Democrat called FEMA's slow response
baffling.
I don't understand how you could have a situation
where you've got several days' notice of an enormous
hurricane building in the Gulf Coast, you know that
New Orleans is 6 feet below sea level. ... The notion
that you don't have good plans in place just does not
make sense, Obama said.
Obama said he expects his counterparts in Louisiana,
Mississippi or Alabama will call for congressional
hearings, but he is ready if they do not. It's
heartbreaking and infuriating and, I think, is
embarrassing to the American people.''
Daley said the city offered 36 members of the
firefighters' technical rescue teams, eight emergency
medical technicians, search-and-rescue equipment, more
than 100 police officers as well as police vehicles
and two boats, 29 clinical and 117 non-clinical health
workers, a mobile clinic and eight trained personnel,
140 Streets and Sanitation workers and 29 trucks, plus
other supplies. City personnel are willing to operate
self-sufficiently and would not depend on local
authorities for food, water, shelter and other
supplies, he said.
Flanked at a Friday press conference by a who's who
from city government, religious organizations and
business, the mayor also announced formation of the
Chicago Helps Fund for storm victims.
I'm calling upon every resident of Chicago to donate
what they can afford, whether it's 50 cents or 50
dollars, the mayor said.
People can make tax-deductible cash or check donations
at any of Bank One's 330 Chicago area branches or by
check at Chicago Helps, c/o Bank One, 38891 Eagle Way,
Chicago 60678-1388. A phone line to take credit card
donations will be set up.
Churches were urged to take up collections this
Sunday, and firefighters are planning to collect at
major intersections this weekend.
In addition, donations will be taken at this weekend's
Jazz Fest in Grant Park, and $2 of every ticket
purchased through Ticketmaster for the Chicago Classic
football game at Soldier Field today will go to
hurricane relief. The Shedd Aquarium announced it will
donate $1 from every ticket sold this holiday weekend
to relief efforts and has set up donation stations
at the aquarium.
Homeless shelters enlisted
By midday Friday, Inner Voice, a private agency that
runs 27 homeless shelters for the city, had rounded up
space in unused facilities for about 2,000 storm
refugees, should they need it, said president Brady
Harden.
Ed Shurna, executive director of the Chicago Coalition
for the Homeless, suggested the city tap recently
vacated units at Cabrini-Green and Lathrop Homes that
were slated for demolition but still have heat and
electricity available.
Daley reiterated that students from stricken areas are
welcome to enroll in the Chicago Public Schools and in
the City Colleges. Cardinal Francis George on Friday
asked that Catholic schools in the archdiocese waive
tuition for displaced children.
More than 400 students have applied to Loyola
University Chicago, most coming from its sister Jesuit
school, Loyola University New Orleans. Half had been
admitted as of late afternoon Friday. Spokeswoman
Maeve Kiley said the school will honor their tuition
that they already paid.''
University of Illinois campuses in Urbana-Champaign
and Chicago have admitted more than 100 students,
including two foreign students who had Fulbright
scholarships to attend Tulane.
Northeastern said it would waive tuition and fees for
Illinois residents who already paid another school,
and would grant in-state tuition to out-of-state
students. Northwestern plans to let students pay what
they would have at their original school and forward
the money to that school.
Contributing: Andrew Herrmann, Dave Newbart
Basically we do only have 2 choices s/m
Our whole election process needs to be revamped. To start with how about doing away with the electoral college? The popular vote should do just fine. Then there was the matter of redistricting under Clinton? Bush Sr? Junior? Bush Sr, I think, since the redistricting made it easier for the Republicans to win the electoral college vote. Our government corruption, I believe, begins with the election process.
Shelly - there are other choices
We've still got over a week til the election. There is a lot you can read up on, and you never know what's going to happen in whatever time is left. I'm not going to say who you should vote for. That is an individual decision you should make. Also note that if you feel very strongly against both candidates there are other choices. Constitutional, Independent, Green party, etc. IMHO, if you want to look on a lighter side of it, just realize that your vote alone if you were to vote for either of them would not be the one that breaks the tie and wins a victory for them, but if you feel very strongly to vote there are other choices. At least you'll feel like you'll have contributed in the voting process but not chosen someone you don't feel strongly against.
Lifestyle choices
Just wondering where the line should be drawn.
Everyone here in the US can make choices and
why do you not just look? So simple.
Bush offered new job!
A Texas businessman has offered Mr. Bush a job as a greeter in his hardware store. Perks are: Ample parking for his security detail, employee discount for his "honey-do" list, and a flexible, part-time schedule. See - there are too jobs out there!
sm is not me. And I offered to leave too. It's on the board. SM
look for yourself. Geesh.
novelty VP choices always lose
Geraldine Ferraro. Gore and Lieberman, etc.
it would be my children's choices,not mine
x
They offered to edit out the "backdrop" but SP
Probably desensitized from slaughtering all those moose.
Delighted that I've still got choices.
Some of the reasons for this are: I have saved as much money as possible. I have never lived beyond my means, never bought too much house, new cars, or gone into debt for travel, bling or doodads.
I was not able to afford college, but I paid attention in high school and made sure I got maximum benefit from my education. For years I worked in an unglamorous civil service job I no longer much enjoyed, until I could retire with a pension and health insurance. (Of course, I may lose this option when healthcare becomes free to all, and rationed to people my age.) Part-time MT is my retirement job; still working, still saving.
I took a steady (plodding) course until, in my 60s, I may actually manage to fade out fairly comfortably. No flash, no pizzazz, just careful planning and self-discipline. I have supported the charities of my choice and voluntarily helped those (again, of my choice) who are less fortunate than I.
Aha! But now here's Obama saying that I have been much too lucky in my life and that, as selfishness is NOT a virtue, I must be prepared to see all my careful work undone because, while I've been busy being an ant, others have been grasshoppers.
Obama's policies will do me nothing but harm. Those who feel they have no options but to wait around for rescue have not been paying attention.
Not being Catholic........ sm
I don't know all the intracasies of the rite of communion in the Catholic Church, but as a Baptist, I do know that our pastor asks each person to examine their own heart before taking communion as we believe that taking communion with unrepented sin does bring damnation on the individual. HOWEVER, at least in my church, he would never go so far to tell a person whether or not they were "worthy" of taking communion. That decision is between the individual and God alone.
President Chavez offered to help America's
poor purchase oil at affordable prices while Bush's cronies are enjoying skyrocketing profits as a result of price gouging. I've heard some poor people say that Chavez cares more about them than Bush does. Who can possibly argue with that?
so the choices were a racist or a fiction writer...sm
If you think Allen only said *macacca once* then you are naive, and I know you are not. He was only caught on camera once. His own friends said he was prejudiced in college and the *macacca* statement on the record is evidence he has not changed. The man had a noose in his office for Pete's sake.
Judging a candidate by his fiction writing. He claims, *It's not a sexual act, Webb told [radio host Mark] Plotkin regarding the Lost Soldiers excerpt. I actually saw this happen in a slum in Bangkok when I was there as a journalist.
The duty of a writer is to illuminate his surroundings.*
Is what he wrote tasteless - YES, but it was fiction. I will hold out on defending his writing just yet. I have not read the novel, but being an avid fiction reader there is no way I would try to judge a writers integrity or personality from what's in their novel.
oh please. Clinton. The Sudan offered him bin Laden...
long before 9-11 and he did not take him. Now YOU tell ME who failed to protect the American people. Good grief.
If I was offered 0.0625 cpl for 30 years experience
one month ago, how much longer do you think it will be before we see ASR rates from 2 years ago become transcription rates? 2010?
Hope you enjoyed your freedom/choices! sm
Sometimes what we thought was so bad starts to look better when we get something worse, especially when we did not see it coming. Socialism is not going to be as great as you might think.
elighted that I've still the means to have choices.
Some of the reasons for this are: I have saved as much money as possible. I have never lived beyond my means, never bought too much house, new cars, or gone into debt for travel, vacations, bling or doodads. For years I worked in an unglamorous civil service job I no longer much enjoyed, until I could retire with a pension and health insurance. (Of course, I may lose this option when healthcare becomes ''free'' to all, and rationed to people my age.) I was not able to afford college, but I paid attention in high school and made sure I benefited from my education.
I took a steady (plodding) course until, in my 60s, I may actually manage to fade out fairly comfortably. No flash, no pizzazz, just careful planning and self-discipline. Aha! But now here's Obama saying that I have been too fortunate in my life and that, selfishness being NOT a virtue, I must be prepared to see all my careful
Catholic Church
Nancy Pelosi's big mouth is the last problem the Obama campaign wanted to contend with.
In its newly ratified platform, the Democratic Party reinvigorates its commitment to abortion.
This time Nancy Pelosi has truly gone too far -- which isn't good news for Joe Biden either.
Found at spectator.org. Other info at wnd.com
roman catholic
The Roman Catholic church believes that any nonbarrier birth control method is abortion. That includes birth control pills, I.U.D, patch, anything.
They also believe that every sexual act should be open to the gift of a baby by God, therefore condoms and diaphragms are not really keeping things "open."
They also believe that avoiding sex during your fertile period using the "rhythm method" is also bad because theoretically you could avoid having children altogether.
However, it is not a mortal sin not to have children, just follow the above rules.
So Pro-Life really is not a political issue. It really is a religious issue that they turned into a political issue.
I don't know about the catholic Bible sm
but have you ever really sat down and read your Bible or are you depending on a priest to interpret for you. You should sit down with your Bible and pray for the Holy Spirit to reveal his word to you.
I am gone, outta here. Like I said, I offered to leave before and was asked to stay. SM
Since you have become the board monitor, I am out of here. And I don't care what you believe. A poster who no longer comes here was wished to die and burn in hell. Lots of other people saw it. In fact, I commented on it and I believe Suzie and maybe vs did. Not sure. Anyway, it happened. Outta here.....whoosh::::::::::::::::::::::::
Did you not haer the "all they offered was appreciation" part?
x
Catholic Archbishops Are Speaking
Here is a mere sampling of responses to Nancy Pelosi's attempt to rewrite the abortion issue on Meet The Press on Sunday. Flame their words all you want, but this goes back throughout the archives at the Vatican. Also, Pope John Paul was just as outspoken regarding this subject as Pope Benedict is.
If someone can find a way to justify abortion after reading these posts, all I can say is "good luck." Do your own research and you'll see where many Catholics "in charge" are far from impressed with this. Search Pelosi abortion, Biden, etc., and you'll find plenty. Evangelicals feel the same way.
http://thehill.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=75650&Itemid=70
And another from the Washington Post:
Archbishop scolds pro-choice Biden
Valerie Richardson and Julia Duin
Tuesday, August 26, 2008
DENVER | Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. arrived at the Democratic National Convention on Monday amid rumblings over whether his pro-choice Catholicism would help or hurt the Democratic ticket.
An Irish-Catholic from a working-class upbringing, Mr. Biden won the nod as presumptive presidential nominee Barack Obama's running mate in part because of his appeal to blue-collar Catholics, the same voters who swung during the primary for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.
Although he represents Delaware in the Senate, Mr. Biden grew up in Pennsylvania, a must-win state for Democrats in November.
But the party's hopes of winning the critical Catholic vote took a hit Sunday when Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver said Mr. Biden should avoid taking Communion as a result of his pro-choice stand on abortion.
Archbishop Chaput, who was scheduled to lead a pro-life candlelight vigil Monday night here in front of Planned Parenthood, called Mr. Biden's support for abortion rights "seriously wrong," said archdiocese spokeswoman Jeanette DE Melo.
"I certainly presume his good will and integrity," said the archbishop, "and I presume that his integrity will lead him to refrain from presenting himself for Communion if he supports a false 'right' to abortion."
The archbishop, who was not invited to speak at any convention events in what appeared to be a deliberate snub, told the Associated Press that he would like to speak privately with Mr. Biden.
The debate underscored what has emerged as a central theme of this year's convention: the tension between the Democratic Party's renewed outreach to religious voters and its long-standing support for unfettered access to abortion.
At a panel discussion Monday sponsored by Google on "The Shifting Faith Vote: What It Means for the Election," panelists said that concerns over social issues, such as poverty, are moving some faith-based voters away from the Republican Party.
At the same time, they haven't aligned with the Democrats, primarily because of the abortion issue.
"The push for the Democratic Party is to have a new position on abortion," said Steve Waldman, Editor of the religious Web site beliefnet.com. "When you look at Catholics and evangelicals, you see that they agree with 80 percent of what [Mr. Obama] says, but there's this stumbling block with abortion."
Whether pro-choice Catholics should take Communion became a major issue in 2004 during Democrat John Kerry's run for the presidency when more than a dozen bishops, including Archbishop Chaput, publicly asked the senator from Massachusetts not to present himself for the Eucharist.
Their stance may have given a boost to President Bush, who increased his share of the Catholic vote from 47 percent in 2000 to 52 percent in 2004.
Catholics, the nation's largest religious voting bloc, represent 26 percent of the electorate. Alexia Kelley, executive director of Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good, said that 11 percent of those this year are considered "swing voters," more than in any recent election year.
Catholic advocacy groups didn't wait long before weighing in on the "wafer wars." The conservative Catholic group Fidelis condemned the selection of Mr. Biden.
Your Catholic propaganda belongs on the
*
I didn't take this as catholic propaganda
Yes, it's obvious it was created by catholics, but the overall message was vote your conscious (p.s. I'm Athiest so if anyone I would be offended). Yes, I could have done without putting catholic this or catholic that up there, but the message was clear to me - vote your conscious (and they didn't tell me who I should vote for - that's a plus in my book).
I am also Roman Catholic. What's wrong with that?
Aren't Catholics, Protestants, Greek Orthodox, Roman Orthodox etc....all Christians? I not understand.
And I am pro choice, up to the 4th month. I think it is better than bringing a child into this world, for which I am not prepared and deep down do not welcome, out of different reasons.
And I prefer an abortion to giving up my baby for adoption. I would not be able to sleep a single night, having given my baby to strangers.
If I were Catholic, think I would have more things to worry about.
First, I find it hard to believe that any religious group would want to run such a slanted story. A prolife group could turn around with abortion films to say some of these would have turned out to be priests. With all the abuse going on in the Catholic church, I think some of their energy would be better spent in cleaning their own home first.
Look, I offered to leave once and gt asked me to stay. So which is it? Make up your minds. SM
You all are doing plenty of bashing on the conservative board right now, but that probably isn't YOU. wink wink nod nod.. I don't want to destroy the collective consciousness that is putting our soldiers lives at risk so I'll leave, but only cuz you asked so nice.
Look I offered to leave and gt asked me to stay. Make up your minds. nm
Fascist police state vs. socialism - great choices.nm
z
Newsletter: MADONNA SAYS SHE OFFERED DAVID'S FATHER MONEY..sm
Madonna appeared on NBC's Today show yesterday (Wednesday, November 1st) to talk about her plans to adopt 13-month-old David Banda of Malawi. She told host Meredith Viera that the boy's father, Yohane Banda, refused her financial offer to help raise his son. Madge said, When I met (Yohane), I said I would be happy to bring (David) back to your village and help you financially raise him. And he said no. She added, I think he truly felt in his heart of hearts that -- and who knows if he was telling me the truth -- that he would have a better life with me. So, when he said no, that was my sign that it was my responsibility to look after him.
Madonna also said that she was saddened by all of the criticism surrounding her decision to adopt David, adding that a week ago she was in the depths of my depression about the negativity and the state of the world. She thinks that racism has something to do with the reaction as well, saying, I think a lot of people have a problem with the fact that I've adopted an African child, a child who has a different color skin than I do...I think it's still considered taboo. You know, I have people say to me on the streets, 'Why did you adopt a black child?'
As for David, Madonna said he's doing well, describing him as very flirtatious and hysterically funny. He also has a temper.
More of Madonna's interview will air today (Thursday, November 2nd).
Meanwhile, David's father said in a recent interview, Madonna was like a bulldozer who has cleared the way for a better life for my son, according to the Associated Press.
Madonna's new children's book, The English Roses, Too Good To Be True, came out last week.
"Regular readers have read and hopefully examined all offered verification for themselves.."
Apparently not because you yourself admitted that you hadn't looked at the information I posted which falls into the category of "ALL available verification."
I blame the Catholic church for allowing this to go on for so very long. SM
I have a lot of conservative friends and I seriously doubt they would condone this. I knew there was a reason I stayed away from these boards. As the poster above said, your post came up in a headline or I would never have come here.
not THEIRS, mother is American and Catholic, father and stepfather Muslim..
yes and Islamic teachings only t h e s e 4 years in Jakarta, Indonesia, and maybe only 2 years.
Barack was 7-11 years old at that time.
There are other choices. I find Obama and McCain equally offensive, so I am voting for Ralph Nader.
Bob Barr might also be a good choice.
SC Roman Catholic priest says Obama supporters shouldn't receive
By MEG KINNARD | Associated Press Writer
9:04 PM EST, November 13, 2008
COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) _ A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."
The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.
"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.
"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."
During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.
But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers — and voters — should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.
According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County — traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas — went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.
"It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."
Conservative Catholics criticized Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004 for supporting abortion rights, with a few Catholic bishops saying Kerry should refrain from receiving Holy Communion because his views were contrary to church teachings.
Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had not heard of other churches taking this position in reaction to Obama's win. A Boston-based group that supports Catholic Democrats questioned the move, saying it was too extreme.
"Father Newman is off base," said Steve Krueger, national director of Catholic Democrats. "He is acting beyond the authority of a parish priest to say what he did. ... Unfortunately, he is doing so in a manner that will be of great cost to those parishioners who did vote for Sens. Obama and Biden. There will be a spiritual cost to them for his words."
A man who has attended St. Mary's for 18 years said he welcomed Newman's message and anticipated it would inspire further discussion at the church.
"I don't understand anyone who would call themselves a Christian, let alone a Catholic, and could vote for someone who's a pro-abortion candidate," said Ted Kelly, 64, who volunteers his time as lector for the church. "You're talking about the murder of innocent beings."
___
On the Net:
St. Mary's Catholic Church: http://www.stmarysgvl.org/
Wow! Where did you go to school?
At Youngstown University - we complained more about the Indians (hygiene - phew). We partied like animals with the Iraqi's and Iranians and never felt looked down upon by these students - they were good people and treated the female population as equals..........maybe the school wasn't good enough for terrorists?
When I was in school, we were
told to treat others as we would have them treat us.
We didn't get pulled aside and have everything listed out. You can't make fun of fat kids, ugly kids, sissy kids, kids with pimples, kids with body odor. We were told to treat others as we would want to be treated. That is all that needed to be said.
If you want acceptance taught in school then you are going to have to list sex, color, sexual orientation, and all religions. It is much simpler just to say....and always remember the Golden Rule.....treat others as you would have them treat you because bullying and teasing will not be accepted. End of story.
When I was in high school ...
Spanish and French were both offered. They were optional, however. I don't think we should REQUIRE any child to learn a second language. If they want to, fine. And Obama makes the point that most French, Spanish, etc. are bilingual...speaking English AND their native language. Well, duhhh. Of course they do. How else do they cater to American tourists, the lifeblood of several European cities. Or cater to American business. If I moved to France and was going to live there, I would learn French. If Mexicans are going to immigrate and live here, they need to learn English. Where's the rub?
We don't compete with overseas MTs because they are bilingual, trilingual, or multilingual. We complete with them because they will do what we do for a whole lot less money. End of story. Then it has to be run back through American editors to good ENGLISH. Not good INDIAN, FRENCH, SPANISH, et al. Not a real good argument. And I don't know how our children speaking Spanish or French is going to help them unless they plan to move to Spain, Mexico, or France. Last time I checked, speaking Spanish or French did not pay the bills either.
I go to school right now and it is free -
The money comes from our Georgia lottery proceeds. It is called the HOPE scholarship. If you graduate high school with a B or above you get the scholarship. If you were graduated before the program was enacted there is a HOPE grant that will pay for either a certificate or a diploma from a technical school/2 year college and once you complete 45 hours with at least a B average you can then be eligible for the HOPE scholarship which can be used at any university.
I right now am attending school to get a degree in accounting and it is not costing me a penny out of my own pocket.
I have to say that I did see a lot of high school age...sm
kids standing behind him at his rally yesterday.
when he was in elementary school
His teacher asked everyone what they wanted to be when they grew up and he said that he wanted to be the president of the United States. He was the only one who said that because he was in an elementary school in Indonesia at the time. Then he was president of the Harvard Law Review and he like that, so there you go, he volunteered. Better him than me. I would not want to be apologizing to Nancy Regan right now.
Because just like the school systems...
you would start having churches or religious groups saying that they weren't getting as much money as some other church or group and then accusing the governement of trying to back a particular religion. That's the whole reason behind the government staying out of religion. Those that came here from England didn't like the fact that there was a Church of England and if you didn't belong to it, you were jailed or killed.
They don't have to hear it in school.....
By all means, put them in a Christian PRIVATE school. Yea it costs a little bit, but it will teach them to be close-minded just like you. You would be proud of them and their accomplishments!
There ya have it.....the school of thought that put
nm
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