Tax cuts, progressive tax system, social programs
Posted By: aimed at creating opportunities...sm on 2008-10-27
In Reply to: Most people voting for Obama are voting on emotion...sm - not facts or truth
are as American as apple pie and these same policies and initiatives can be found puncuating the pages of our history from the day of our country's inception.
You do not understand Marxism or socialism, or you would be a lot more exercised by the current redistribution of wealth that takes your tax dollars and moves them upward to an elite ruling class that represses and undermines the middle class at the drop of a hat. State ownership of banks, lending institutions and direct personal property "buy outs" (as proposed by McCain certainly smack of Marxism and are not exactly what you could call traditional American values.
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This is not social programs......this is HUGE government
!!
Correct....or the 3.5 trillion dollar social programs
@
No need to worry about your 401k, democrats would like to absord it into the Social Security system.
xx
Progressive new sources
On reviewing the posts below, I see someone has supplied you with a number of conservative sources to investigate. For the sake of balance, here is a list I prepared a few days back of progressive sources that will also give some insight into the Obama camp and their beliefs. You could Google around with this list, but don't be overwhelmed. In my personal opinion, the Democracy Now! Amy Goodman is a nice all-round overview of all the others. Here's that link and the list.
http://www.democracynow.org/
Democracy Now! with Amy Goodman
Ariana Huffington.
Bill Mahar.
Bill Moyers.
Indymedia.
Independent Press Association (IPA)
Chris Matthews
Keith Olberman
Richard Dreyfuss
Helen Thomas
Jim Hightower
Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR)
Naomi Klein
Al-Jazeera English
Jeremy Scahill
Robert Scheer
Nir Rosen
Allan Nairn
James Steele
John Ghazvinian
Seymour Hersh
Scotter Ritter
The Nation
Rolling Stone
Mother Jones
The American Prospect
Greg Palast
why progressive taxation?
Two answers:
1. Because it's good for the economy. Money doesn't exist to stagnate in pools; it has to move.
2. Because it's the moral thing to do. If you have for example a flat 10% income tax, a millionaire will flinch, but a poor man will starve.
progressive taxation
See, DNH, the thing I'm getting at is, it already *is* my money. My money, your money, it's being taken already, and given to people who don't work, billionaires who have not a worry in the world.
Your example of a 25% tax rate is even better than mine. That guy making 60,000, he's making 45,000 after taxes. Well and good--it was a big bite of his income, but he can still afford his house and to feed his kids. But what about the guy making 30,000? Suddenly he's making 22,500 a year, and how's he going to pay his heating bill this winter? He can't afford food, he can't make rent.
So what looks initially like equal treatment, is actually something far different: A neglible weight on the wealthy, a noticeable burden on the middle class, and a death sentence on the lower class.
The incentive argument doesn't work, either. During the height of taxation in the 50s, the economy grew at a healthy rate, and it grew by making things, building things, actual goods and services, not the fake growth we've seen in the recent low-tax decades, where all the wealth is made up of obscure financial instruments that nobody understands.
People don't give up their dreams because they fear a high tax rate. They give up their dreams because suddenly they can't afford food anymore, and they're going to get thrown out of their houses, and their kids are going to be dressed in rags, because every dime they worked so hard for is being redistributed right on up into the hands of billionaires.
What if it were my money? I'd rather every dime I had go to the poor, than yet another penny wind up in somebody's else's hedge fund.
I a progressive politically. Sounds like it. nm
nm
They're a lot more progressive and educated.
right, al the young and educated, progressive
people voted for Mousavi. Even before all the votes were in, the government already announced a landslide win for Ahmedinejad. Definitely fraud, Ahmedinejad's ratings before the elections were very low, high unemployment rate. How could he win?
I'll take progressive-thinking, educated liberals any day
8)
They towed Bush's line for 6 long years. Ask any progressive
better still, branch out and listen to opposing media views, including progressive radio and newspapers...those guys have yet to get mainstream coverage. To get any kind of decent international coverage, one is forced to go to media source outside of our own country. You might be REALLY surpised at what you find there. Get real.
He also said that some of programs...
need to be stripped and he is well aware of that. Don't forget, he didn't write this all by his lonesome - it was written in the House. He does not want it ditched altogether for fear of the consequences of starting from scratch - WE DON'T HAVE TIME. BUT, the pubs could give a rats about those of us in limbo - they'd rather engage in partisan infighting. If the morons would quit fighting - get to work and strip the garbage - present us with a job creation only bill - we'd be in business. But, cooperation is impossible - as evidenced by the hate posted all over this board.
cut what federal programs??
So the Federal govt is gonna cut back in entitlement programs to fund the rebuilding of NO? Not gonna cease his tax cuts for the rich, just gonna cut back on programs for.....the disadvantaged, of course, the ones whose voices will not be heard..Whose fault was NO? Bush and his administration. I say Bush should donate some of his millions to the rebuilding of NO, let some of the unfortunate ones camp on his 1700 acres that he boasts about..He got us into this awful mess. His speech the other night was a joke..Just another press moment, trying to pull on Americans heart strings but it aint working, LOL..**Long live equality**..Three more years? Oh gee, can we survive? What will be the next catastrophe under this fool? 9/11, Iraq and now NO..**America where are you**?
The programs in the stimulus...nm
x
The History Channel programs are
often very factual. I watch it a lot.
I would love to see the John Adams program but I gave up HBO. They didn't seem to have very good programming for a long time, movie-wise, and a lot of the series were on too late for me, so I gave HBO up (after 15 years).
govt job programs/CETA
My first real job some 30 years ago was a CETA job. That was Comprehensive Employment and Training Act. This was doing medical transcription for a county health department. I worked as a CETA employee for a year, they trained me and paid me, and I have worked in transcription for 30 years, of course moving on to hospital stuff. Made big bucks for quite a few years and now here I am, strangely enough, I think back to the same money I made all those years ago. You've got to keep your sense of humor.
oh no - social ostracism -- I can't
bear it . . .
isn't that social security?
We already pay 7.5 of income to social security and employers pay an additional 7.5%. An IC pays the full 15% themself. Is this 5% in addition to that, replacing that or what? Can you provide additional information or a source for such?
Re: Social Security
Yes, I applied in April of 2008. Was denied. Filed Request for Reconsideration. Was denied. Am now awaiting a hearing, which might take another year. Since my initial application, I've developed a few more diseases, and I'm hoping to talk with my lawyer today to see if we can send a "Dire Need Letter," since the situation is now dire.
As far as quarters, I have plenty of them and was even told when I applied how much I could expect to receive each month.
I never, EVER thought I would be in a position like this. If anything, I've softened my attitude about "those people" who are forced to take advantage of government assistance. You just never know when it might happen to you. 
Ronnie Reagan, the man who cut all the programs for mentally ill and sm
that is when you started seeing all the homeless people on the streets. During his reign of terror. A horrible president.
we already have schools and programs to feed our hungry
x
Yea but he didn't have to pre-empt my favorite programs
Judge Joe and Judge Alex. They were gonna be pretty good today. Guess I'll have to wait for re-runs. LOL
In our area, all the "Handicapable" work programs are
subsidized through the state or private donors. The state is broke. They have already announced this is one of the areas of the budget that will be eliminated, along with the subsidized housing programs that provide the same people with independent or assisted living residences. The private corporate donors in our area are announcing layoffs by the thousands and have cut way back on community donations.
Why shouldnt gov fund religious programs?
I should be able to get some funding just like everyone else if I have a religious program. I mean we fund abortion here in the US and abroad. We fund wars, we fund all kinds of CRAP so why NOT religion? Isnt it supposed to be equal and fair? Why is it the religious people of this world, namely the Christians get the short end of the stick?
Here's some info on the 'shovel ready' programs.
Read this morning in our paper that the majority of the stimulus money coming to our great state of Ohio is going to go not to construction projects (like it was supposed to, hence the term 'shovel ready'), but to study construction projects.
I get that maybe we just shouldn't throw money to whatever pothole comes first and that there has to be some sort of order, but the reasoning behind this 'study' given by Gov. Strickland was that it was totally within the parameters of the stimulus and "we're putting engineers and planners to work."
I'm sure that will be greatly appreciated by those construction workers three years from now - after they've lost their homes, cars, equipment, business, etc.
I wish I could explain it, but I just don't get it either.
You don't believe in Social Security and Medicare?
What would your plan be for the elderly population then?
No drug laws? I thought libertarians only objected to posession of marijuana as a crime. I didn't know you actually objected to all drug laws. So then, you believe all drugs should be legalized?
You don't believe in a standing military. I am not sure I remember that right. It's hard to remember that very long list without it in front of me. So is your plan then that we should all live in a drug-haze, leave all other countries to their own devices and we won't need a military because we won't be bothering anyone and who will care anyway because, of course, we will all be stoned? I can't say that I see any cogent thought behind this list. It's a morally relative list of Doctor Feel Good. I thought libertarians had more sense. What a bummer dude.
So, you look forward to paying for more social
xx
Perhaps it was the social and community outreach
1. Can-Cer-Vive support to cancer patients and caregivers.
2. Churh school and youth church.
3. Counseling services, both individual and group.
4. Emmaus Road Ministry, which provides companions, prayer partners, helpers and friends for grieving persons, months after the passing of a loved one. Ongoing contact with the family is maintained.
5. Girl Scouts.
6. Teen choir.
7. Computer classes.
8. Assistance to physically, mentally and emotionally handicapped.
9. Marriage enrichment seminars.
10. Workshops on building and maintaining Christian homes.
11. Men's chorus.
12. Men's fellowship.
13. Bible study.
14. Sanctuary choir.
15. Stewardship.
16. Women's chorus.
17. Women's drill team.
18. Yoga.
19. Youth drill team.
20. Active seniors.
21. Adopt-a-Student.
22. Athletes for Christ.
23. Career development.
24. Church in the community.
25. Domestic violence advocacy and support.
26. Drug and alcohol recovery.
27. Food share.
28. Grandparent's ministry.
29. HIV/AIDS support.
30. Housing workshops.
31. Health and wellness.
32. Legal counseling.
33. Math tutors.
34. Prison ministry.
35. Reading tutors.
36. Drama.
37. Fine arts and literary guild.
38. Quilting.
39. Adult dance.
40. Music.
Compare these ministries with Obama's life experiences, political views and current campaign platform. That is explanation enough for me.
I think the quickest way to fix Social Security...
is to make it so politicians have to rely on it when they are of retirement age instead of us paying them their government salary after they leave office.
I think a lot of economic problems would be solved if politicians would have to play by the same rules as the rest of us.
Do you draw social security or do you know
someone who does?
Medicare and social security
This today regarding Social Security and Medicare. For the person below who thought this money could not be used for other purposes, please note the *** paragraphs and the final paragraph stating this administration would run a deficit this year of $1.84 trillion, four times last year's record, and said the deficits will remain above $500 billion every year over the next decade.
Washington – The financial health of Social Security and Medicare, the government's two biggest benefit programs, have worsened because of the severe recession, and Medicare is now paying out more than it receives.
Trustees of the programs said Tuesday that Social Security will start paying out more in benefits than it collects in taxes in 2016, one year sooner than projected last year, and the giant trust fund will be depleted by 2037, four years sooner. Medicare is in even worse shape. The trustees said the program for hospital expenses will pay out more in benefits than it collects this year and will be insolvent by 2017, two years earlier than the date projected in last year's report.
*******The trust funds — which exist in paper form in a filing cabinet in Parkersburg, W.Va. — are bonds that are backed by the government's "full faith and credit" but not by any actual assets. That money has been spent over the years to fund other parts of government. To redeem the trust fund bonds, the government would have to borrow in public debt markets or raise taxes.
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, the head of the trustees group, said the new reports were a reminder that "the longer we wait to address the long-term solvency of Medicare and Social Security, the sooner those challenges will be upon us and the harder the options will be." Geithner said that President Barack Obama was committed to working with Congress to find ways to control runaway growth in both public and private health care expenditures, noting the promise Monday by major health care providers to trim costs by $2 trillion over the next decade. However, Republicans pointed to the newly dire assessments as evidence the Obama administration has failed to come forward with actual entitlement reform to close the funding gaps. "Instead of getting existing public programs in order right now, some are saying we should create a new government-run health insurance plan," Sen. Chuck Grassley, the top Republican on the Finance Committee, said in a reference to the administration's health care proposals. "When we can't afford the public health plan we have already, does it make sense to add more?" House Republican leader John Boehner said the trustees report "confirms what we already knew: Our nation cannot afford to continue this reckless borrowing and spending spree." The findings in the trustees report, the annual checkup given the two benefit programs, did not come as a surprise. Private economists had been predicting that the dates the programs would begin to pay out more than they take in and the dates the trust funds would be insolvent would occur sooner given the economic recession.
The deep recession, the worst the country has endured in decades, has resulted in a loss of 5.7 million jobs since it began in December 2007. The unemployment rate hit a 25-year high of 8.9 percent in April.
Fewer people working means less being paid into the trust funds for Social Security and Medicare. The Congressional Budget Office recently projected that Social Security will collect just $3 billion more in 2010 than it will pay out in benefits. A year ago, the CBO had projected that Social Security would have a much higher $86 billion cash surplus for the 2010 budget year, which begins Oct. 1. The trustees report projected that Social Security's annual surpluses would "fall sharply this year," then remain at a reduced level in 2010 and be lower in the following years than last year's projections. The report said that the Social Security annual surplus would be eliminated entirely in 2016, reflecting increased demands from the wave of 78 million baby boomers retiring. That means Social Security will have to turn to its trust fund to make up the difference between Social Security taxes and the benefits being paid out beginning in 2016. The trustees projected the trust fund would be depleted in 2037, four years earlier than the 2041 date in last year's report. At that point, the annual Social Security taxes collected would be enough to pay for three-fourths of current benefits through 2083.
*******To tap the trust fund, the government would have to increase borrowing or raise taxes because Social Security bonds exist only as bookkeeping entries. While the government is obligated to redeem those bonds, it has already spent the excess Social Security collections over the years to fund general government operations, providing the trust funds with IOUs.
While the smaller surpluses that will begin this year will not have any impact on Social Security benefit payments, the government will need to borrow more at a time when the federal deficit is already exploding because of the recession and the billions of dollars being spent to prop up a shaky banking system. Medicare's condition is more precarious, reflecting the pressures from soaring health care costs as well as the drop in tax collections. Obama on Monday praised the pledge by the health care industry to achieve $2 trillion in savings on health care costs over the next decade, but it was unclear how much help those pledges would be in achieving Obama's goal of extending coverage to some 50 million uninsured Americans. The administration is pushing Congress to pass legislation in this area this year, preferring to tackle health care before Social Security. The trustees report is likely to set off renewed debate over Social Security and Medicare. Critics have charged that the Obama administration has failed to tackle the most serious problems in the budget — soaring entitlement spending.
*****The administration on Monday revised its federal deficit forecasts upward to project an imbalance this year of $1.84 trillion, four times last year's record, and said the deficits will remain above $500 billion every year over the next decade.
God d*mn America is ok then? As long as you have good church programs? (nm)
x
employer based-programs subsidize insurance...
not just make it available--and therein lies my problem.
And govt shouldn't fund religious programs....
schools, facilities, etc.
Yeah, they are liberal on social issues. sm
And, they have run amuck chasing the adoption records of Roberts. It's things like this that make people want to lump liberals/democrats all up in one pile when in fact this is one, maybe two journalist starting this up. It gives fuel to the right wing media and the wheels keep on turning.
Post Office, Social Security
Veterans Health care.
Social Security is a retirement "insurance" sm
as with any insurance you usally do draw more than you pay in! If you have a (for example) $250,000 life insurance policy, do you think you are going to pay in $250,000 for it?
All this complaining about people drawing SS but I tell you if you are paying in and happen to have a catastrophic illness and have to draw disability benefits, you will be glad you paid in.
Programs the conservatives make a life long mission
nm
Putting together job programs in order to get people back to work....sm
able to perhaps save their homes and families, able to pay taxes, which will in turn pay for social programs, support the infrastructure, and then when folk are back to work they will feel secure in perhaps purchasing again, which will help businesses....FDR did it, it takes time, it is not a quick fix, it won't make Obama into Merlin, it took 8 LONG YEARS to get into this bottomless pit, can we give this administration at least a year or two to try to get things moving upward again? I may not support every social program included therein, but work is being done, adn will continue. I used to cross the desert on occasion when I lived in CA, and I am starting to see vultures on the side of the road again circling and not even waiting to pounce and pull apart the government. Why? Just my opion.
You might want to Google "mccain privatize social security"
nm
My social security kicks in this April and I am hoping
they have enough left to get me through my life. I am not worried about that basically but I can hardly wait, full retirement age so working, drawing from there- priceless.
So why wasn't social services called on this girl?
So the parents who are involved in the lives of their children should be punished because some are not? Obviously if the parents don't care then something is wrong in the household and their needs to be an investigation or a report.
I just don't think a 14-year-old girl has the maturity to make decisions on her own like that. God knows the stupid things I would have done at 14 if my dad had just let me do whatever I wanted or wasn't informed!
I mean in that case, schools shouldn't call home when we skipped school because we should be allowed to make our own decisions about whether we want to be educated or not.
A lot of it also has to do with Social Security Disability (SSDI), supposedly the dad......sm
had a back injury years back, so he can also collect SSDI, along with a Worker's Comp claim, along with State supplementation because of the size of the family/income ratio....don't know exactly how it works, really do not want to know, I just see the daughters taking over...as I said, the oldest has two babies a year apart, and the third is on the way, and her little sister is at home, pregnant, no daddies in sight....let's invest in more social workers for each state to work on these cases, cut out the fraud, and can you imagine, state by state, how much money could possibly be recouped this way, medical benefits, food stamps, welfare, rent subsidies...I also have a young woman in the neighborhood living with parents, two small school children, and she gets welfare for the kids and she is on SSDI for "ADHD!" but she goes out and parties!! don't get me started here, I am starting to sound right wing, huh???? ;-)
You consider Social Security and Medicare expanding government projects, t hen?
Help me understand this concept. I am afraid the logic escapes me.
Yes, it does, as well as the VA system. (sm)
The VA system used to be pretty decent, but during the Bush regime, it became a terrible place for our brave veterans to go for healthcare. If one president can destroy it, maybe another can restore it.
VA system..
was not pretty decent pre-Bush. My husband is a vet. We had used VA services on a couple of occasions way before Bush. He is a Vietnam era vet and we used those services when he got home in 1973. It was AWFUL. Just AWFUL. We chose to pay for his care at other hospitals rather than subject him to horrors of the VA system. Sorry, but you can't blame Bush for everything.
tax cuts. oh, really?
I thought I was the only one who knew this. If tax cuts expire, we get honked! Duh! That's more $ out of our pockets!
Can someone explain why they want to have a lower salary? All I ever hear around here is how our paychecks continue to dwindle. If Obama gets elected, plan on an even smaller check!
How can this be so hard to figure out?
pay cuts
Where are you seeing this information so I can read this?
I see that there are tax cuts in there -
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090202/ap_on_go_co/congress_stimulus
Tax Cuts
I really think if we had had the tax cuts the last 8 years that we had WITHOUT all the additional spending, we would have been fine. I don't think it was the tax cuts that didn't work, but we spent way more than the tax cuts could help.
With that line of thought, spending more definitely isn't going to help.
Maybe all of the politicians that have 5 or 6 houses (yes, including Mccain) should sell all of their extra fluff and try to pay back some of our deficit. You know, live like regular hard-working American people. I mean really, they got us here, because they don't ever listen to what the regular people say!
Like that'll ever happen!
Tax Cuts
President Barack Obama ordered the U.S. Treasury on Saturday to implement tax cuts for 95 percent of Americans, fulfilling a campaign pledge he hopes will help jolt the economy out of recession.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKTRE51K1P320090221
Of course, those of you on the right who despise President Obama certainly do not have to accept these tax cuts. You are welcome to stay at your current tax rate in protest.
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