THere is one glaring fact here....

The very fact that this is the LARGEST package to EVER go through congress should make everyone cringe.   The bill, HR1......... how many of those jokers up there you think have actually read all 600+ pages?  Of course, they shouldn't.  They should just say NO!  No more of my money going to anyone. 

Contraceptives for low income Americans! Are you kidding me?  That has no place in a stimulus package......just more liberal dem crap!!  Low income Americans can already get their contraceptives........ever heard of their local Health Dept?   So sick of this garbage     

Of course, Obama said there would be NO junk allowed like this thrown in to pad a bill........ this man has already reneged on sooo many things he has said, while he sits in his white house and laughs at all those who put him in there!

• THere is one glaring fact here.... - the stimulus package........sm
  • OMG! Contraception! - Truthseeker
  • FYI, Obama has requested the - family planning portion
    • While I am glad - Crabbyolebroad
      • Well, we all know the old "trickle-down economics" of the past admnistrations has not worked, - Cyndiee

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 The economy is growing. I don't care if it is exploding. The fact here is that more and more people are becoming more and more desperate. I think going to college is fine but what jobs are these people going to get when they get out of college. You mentioned something about trades...please, all the manufacturing jobs are gone. Small business...only a handful ever succeed. My guess is that most people wiped out of good paying jobs with benefits are supposed to go to Wal-Mart and just pretend everything is okay, and here in Florida, join the service industry. Money, the real god of our times, is what is killing a lot of people here in Florida. As an example, in my town, there are hundreds of small mobile home parks inhabited primarily by the elderly. The big money developers are coming in here, buying the parks and the people are out on the street. The owners of the park get millions of dollars and the people are usually offered a flat fee that would pay rent for about 2 years, or given 60 days to find a place to move their homes, On fixed income this, of course, cannot be done. Many of these folks lived all their lives doing the right thing, playing by all the rules. They moved to Florida, own a little bit of property and now they are expected to rent again and work again. An apartment 1 BR 1 BA that is decent would be around $1000. You do the math. Even those communities that are owned by the homeowners themselves have no say. Eminent domain comes into play and then they are really in trouble so...being elderly, forced out of your home, having Medicare screwed up beyond belief is okay because the economy is strong. I don't care about words or pie charts. I care about what I see and know to be true by looking at it with my own eyes. Just who is it benefitting from this growing economy??  Oh well, the market will straighten everything out, just wait.

Another thing is that everyone is not college material, even these days when a degree doesn't mean all that much anyway. It surely won't guarantee you a job and if you went to college after the 1970s you don't even have to be smart to get in; not that smart people are not in college, you just don't have to be anymore. You don't even have to know how to read..but that is for another day.  How many middle management degreed people have lost their jobs...quite a few. Airlines, GM, drug companies, utility companies...all these places hire degreed people. That old sheepskin won't save you anymore.

You say the poor will always be with us and I believe that as well. I do not believe that it is okay to walk over the additional bodies that greed has produced and there are legion. You call it lack of motivation on the part of the poor. I call it greed.

By the way, I see that the Iraq election is mysteriously mirroring the US election, split right down the middle.

Oh, and the drilling in Alaska. Why don't they drill in Detroit and make some cars that use some other form of fuel.  It just never ends.

Debacle...absolutely.

The teen was raised in that family, but as a human being she made her own decisions that her mother can't always control.  Just because she didn't fully coincide with her mother's platform of abstinence, she is with her pro-life stance and keeping her baby, marrying the dad.

that some of the associations he has had in his lifetime condone terrorist attacks on our country and others condone racism by spouting hate messages from the pulpit.  It has nothing to do with his name or his color.  It has to do with who he associates with.  If you want to know a true person.....look who they hang with.  Birds of a feather, my friend.

But putting all sketchy associations aside, the bottom line is that there are issues that I just don't agree with Obama on.  That is why I'm not voting for him.  I do not condone abortion.  I want to keep my guns.  I do not want to raise taxes for anyone.  I don't want to give welfare checks to people who are too lazy to get an education and work.  I want to stop government spending.  I want smaller government.  There are just so many issues where Barrack Obama and I do not see eye to eye that I really don't even have to use his race or associations as a reason to not vote for him.

I didn't say I was not a conservative.  I didn't say what I was as a matter of fact. It was the FACT that the poster ASSUMED I was something that frosted me.  This has nothing to do with the posts we are talking about, but you sure spent a lot of time looking for that didn't you?  How about finding the original posts that actually ARE being talked about?  It might take awhile, but they are there.  I know you either have a lot of time, or have printed off every post and have them neatly arranged in a three ring binder. 

it truly was a rhetorical question.

.

unnecessary spending, but to get rid of all or most of the gov't programs would be devastating to the people who really need the help - not the deadbeats.  Maybe if we need to stop spending billions of dollars in Iraq.  Maybe we need to stop giving such big tax breaks and close some tax loop holes to big companies, that the gov't is ending up bailing out anyway. 

I don't agree with McCain or Palin on many issues, but I do agree with her on the her saying that the gov't needs to put out there like a list so we could see exactly where the money is going.  I don't remember her exact words, but that is the gist of what she said. 

I am still undecided who to vote for, leaning more towards Obama (put a sign for him out, mainly to T off a certain neighbor ).  I don't agree with Palin on any issues at all really, but I am still trying to research - though it is hard because you have to wade through all the mud slinging on both sides. 

that he cheated on his first wife many times before he met Cindy McCain and left his wife for her.  I also have a good friend who as a former fighter pilot actually knew John McCain.  He saw the philandering first-hand and has a very low opinion of him.  And he is a conservative republican. 

with a prominent and active member of the Chicago political community don't mean nuthing.  If there was any monkey business anywhere in Obama's past, it would have long, long, long ago been brought to light.  All you have is guilt by association and murky insinuations. Lots of people have contact with Bill Ayres.  Shall we bomb the city?

read this today on MSN. Seems to spell out the wheat from the chaff.

WASHINGTON - Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain stretched facts, sometimes past the breaking point, as they addressed the financial crisis and more during their second presidential debate.
 

Here are some examples:

McCAIN: Said one way out of the financial crisis is to "stop sending $700 billion a year to countries that don't like us."
 

THE FACTS: Although he didn't spell it out, he was referring ¡ª as he has in the past ¡ª to purchases of oil from countries hostile to the U.S. The figure is inflated and misleading. The U.S. is not spending nearly that much on oil imports and roughly one-third of what it does spend goes to friendly countries such as Canada, Mexico and Britain.
The Associated Press

OBAMA: "I believe this is a final verdict on the failed economic policies of the last eight years, strongly promoted by President Bush and supported by Senator McCain, that essentially said that we should strip away regulations, consumer protections, let the market run wild, and prosperity would rain down on all of us. It hasn't worked out that way. And so now we've got to take some decisive action."

THE FACTS: McCain has indeed favored less regulation over the years but supported tighter rules and accountability on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years before the start of a financial crisis prompted in part by those giant mortgage underwriters. Obama was not a leader in that unsuccessful effort. Some of the current problems can be traced to legislation passed in 1999 that lifted many regulations over the financial industry. That deregulation was championed by then-Sen. Phil Gramm, R-Texas, a McCain supporter, but also by President Clinton, who signed the legislation, and by former Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, now a top Obama economic adviser.
The Associated Press

McCAIN: In a jab at Obama, McCain said that the last president to raise taxes during difficult economic times was Herbert Hoover during the Great Depression.

THE FACTS: While the recession of the early 1990s didn't compare to the Great Depression, Bill Clinton raised taxes ¡ª which, as both Clintons like to remind everyone who will listen, led to the greatest economic expansion in the country's history.
NBC News' blog First Read

McCAIN: Said he would provide a $5,000 refundable tax credit for families to buy health insurance "rather than mandates or fines for small businesses as Senator Obama's plan calls for."
 

THE FACTS: Obama's health care plan does not impose mandates or fines on small business. He would provide small businesses with a refundable tax credit of up to 50 percent on health premiums paid on behalf of their employees. Also, large employers that do not offer meaningful coverage or contribute to the cost of coverage would be required to pay a percentage of payroll toward the costs of a public insurance plan. But small businesses would be exempt from that requirement.
The Associated Press

OBAMA: Said McCain's proposal to give people a tax credit in exchange for treating employers' health insurance contributions as taxable wages amounts to "what one hand giveth, the other hand taketh away."
 

THE FACTS: Obama's suggestion that McCain's health care plan is a wash for families is misleading. McCain offers families a $5,000 tax credit to help them buy health insurance. The corresponding increase in taxable wages would result in a much smaller cost than the value of the tax credit, at least at first. Over time, the value of the tax credit may diminish as premiums rise. However, the Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's plan would increase the federal deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years ¡ª mainly because it would lead to less tax revenue coming in, meaning it is a true tax break overall.
The Associated Press

McCAIN: Went after Obama's ties to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, especially the campaign contributions Obama has received from their employees.

THE FACTS: What was missing? McCain mentioning the ties his own campaign manager had to both Fannie and Freddie. The New York Times reported that McCain campaign manager Rick Davis' firm received $15,000 per month through August from Freddie Mac. That followed other reporting that Davis received $30,000 per month to head up an advocacy group, the Homeownership Alliance, set up to defend Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to protect it from more government regulations.
NBC News' blog First Read

OBAMA: "Actually I'm cutting more than I'm spending so that it will be a net spending cut."

THE FACTS: Obama has many ambitious plans to spend more taxpayer dollars on a variety of federal programs, including clean energy technologies and job training. He's said he'll cut pork-barrel programs and the costs of the war in Iraq to pay for it ¡ª as well as raise taxes on the wealthy ¡ª but the specifics of his new spending plans greatly outweigh the few spending cuts he's identified.
The Associated Press

McCAIN: Said that Obama has voted to raise taxes 94 times.

THE FACTS: As fact-checkers have constantly pointed out, that is an exaggeration. Per Factcheck.org:

• 23 votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all; they were against proposed tax cuts.
   


• 7 were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, while raising them on a relative few, either corporations or affluent individuals.
   


• 11 votes the GOP is counting would have increased taxes on those making more than $1 million a year ¡ª in order to fund programs such as Head Start and school nutrition programs, or veterans¡¯ health care.
   


• The GOP sometimes counted two, three and even four votes on the same measure. We found their tally included a total of 17 votes on seven measures, effectively padding their total by 10.
   


• The majority of the 94 votes ¡ª 53 of them, including some mentioned above ¨C were on budget measures, not tax bills, and would not have resulted in any tax change. Four other votes were non-binding motions related to conference report negotiations.
  NBC News' blog First Read

McCAIN: Said Obama supported a congressional earmark of "$3 million for an overhead projector at a planetarium in Chicago, Ill. My friends, do we need to spend that kind of money?"
 

THE FACTS: McCain's phrase suggests Obama spent $3 million on an old-fashioned piece of office equipment that projects charts and text on a wall screen. In fact, the money was for an overhaul of the theater system, which projects images of stars and planets for educational shows at Chicago's Adler Planetarium. When he announced the $3 million earmark last year, Obama said the planetarium's 40-year-old projection system "has begun to fail, leaving the theater dark and groups of school students and other interested museum-goers without this very valuable and exciting learning experience."
The Associated Press

OBAMA: "We're spending $10 billion dollars a month in Iraq, at a time when the Iraqis have a $79 billion dollar surplus ¡ª $79 billion dollars."

Well, not quite. As Factcheck.org put it, "The country was once projected to have as much as a $79 billion surplus, but no more. The Iraqis have $29 billion in the bank, and could have $47 billion to $59 billion by the end of the year."
NBC News' blog First Read

Transcript from CNN last night:

FOREMAN (voice-over): A tax cut for every working family with less than $250,000 a year in income, tax incentives for businesses to create jobs, investing $15 billion a year in green energy, on it goes.

The biggest question that economic and tax analysts have raised, over and over, how will he pay for all this, without ballooning the deficit? Obama still did not give an answer.

In the same vein, he once again said he is going to save an average American family $2,500 a year on health care. Health care experts widely say, that is misleading. They do not believe his plan will produce such savings.

And one more quick item -- he said, we can create schools that work. And he had an example.

B. OBAMA: Three years ago, only half the high school seniors at the Mapleton School in Thornton, Colorado, were accepted to college. But, after a rigorous school reform program, this year, all 44 seniors were accepted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Tom, it sounds like a great school. What is wrong with that?

FOREMAN: Well, it is a great -- that is a great school, Anderson. It sounds wonderful.

"Keeping Them Honest," there is something he did not mention. The revolutionary changes at Mapleton School were financed by Microsoft billionaire Bill Gates and his wife. And, of course, Obama cannot promise that kind of support to every school in the country. It is right there on the school's Web site. You can see it easily. He presented it as if this were simply a reform in a school that worked really well.

It was a heck of a reform. It cost a lot, and it can't necessarily be replicated everywhere -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Tom Foreman, "Keeping Them Honest." Thanks, Tom.