Sorry but Bush is a crook and nothing you say will change that. He did our country a lot of damage.
Posted By: Mrs. M on 2009-01-20
In Reply to: I didn't see a look of embarrassment........sm - m
just move on from that, you cannot. It's damaged us a whollleee lot and your snide comments will not change that.
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Bush damage
What you described is only the damage that Americans were lucky enough to have accidentally been discovered, things that were the complete opposite of what he said he was doing. We still don't know what other illegal or immoral things he has done in the last 5 years that just haven't been discovered yet. Plus, he has 3 more years of damage to do. I worry very much for the future of this country. I hope we can all survive it without him getting us all killed. He's a very dangerous man.
anyone else wondering how much damage Bush can do in the next few months?
well, if this is true, I blame Bush, Cheney and all the damage
they have done to this country. The republicans will always go down in history as to blame.
They have had full control and yet still manage to blame everyone else for the problems.
Look around, because Bush has left this country with no other option but for the government to step in. This has been breeding because of his carelessness and ineptitude. He ruled like a king/tyrant in the white house.
This will be on his hands.
That is it. You all can have your change. I am sticking to Country First.
McCain it is. I would have to be crazy to vote for the O. What is next up his sleeve and he is already stating this 2 days before election? He is nuts. Better buy stocks in efficient lighting and efficient appliances.
Triple-digit IQ will be a welcome change for the country.
These would be downright hysterical if they weren't so horribly embarrassing.
Bush's Answer? Change the War Crimes Act!
August 29, 2006
Retroactive Laws Invoked to Protect Administration Officials from War Crimes Prosecution
Bush Turns His Terror War on the Homeland
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
When I was a kid John Wayne war movies gave us the message that America was the good guy, the white hat that fought the villain.
Alas, today the US and its last remaining non-coerced ally, Israel, are almost universally regarded as the bad guys over whom John Wayne would triumph. Today the US and Israel are seen throughout the world as war criminal states.
On August 23 the BBC reported that Amnesty International has brought war crimes charges against Israel for deliberately targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure as an integral part of Israel's strategy in its recent invasion of Lebanon.
Israel claims that its aggression was self-defense to dislodge Hezbollah from southern Lebanon. Yet, Israel bombed residential communities all over Lebanon, even Christian communities in the north in which no Hezbollah could possibly have been present.
United Nations spokesman Jean Fabre reported that Israel's attack on civilian infrastructure annihilated Lebanon's development: Fifteen years of work have been wiped out in a month.
Israel maintains that this massive destruction was unintended collateral damage.
President Bush maintains that Israel has a right to protect itself by destroying Lebanon.
Bush blocked the attempt to stop Israel's aggression and is, thereby, equally responsible for the war crimes. Indeed, a number of reports claim that Bush instigated the Israeli aggression against Lebanon.
Bush has other war crime problems. Benjamin Ferenccz, a chief prosecutor of Nazi war crimes at Nuremberg, recently said that President Bush should be tried as a war criminal side by side with Saddam Hussein for starting aggressive wars, Hussein for his 1990 invasion of Kuwait and Bush for his 2003 invasion of Iraq.
Under the Nuremberg standard, Bush is definitely a war criminal. The US Supreme Court also exposed Bush to war crime charges under both the US War Crimes Act of 1996 and the Geneva Conventions when the Court ruled in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld against the Bush administration's military tribunals and inhumane treatment of detainees.
President Bush and his Attorney General agree that under existing laws and treaties Bush is a war criminal together with many members of his government. To make his war crimes legal after the fact, Bush has instructed the Justice (sic) Department to draft changes to the War Crimes Act and to US treaty obligations under the Geneva Conventions.
One of Bush's changes would deny protection of the Geneva Conventions to anyone in any American court.
Bush's other change would protect from prosecution any US government official or military personnel guilty of violating Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. Article 3 prohibits at any time and in any place whatsoever outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment. As civil libertarian Nat Hentoff observes, this change would also undo Senator John McCain's amendment against torture.
Eugene Fidell, president of the National Institute of Military Justice says that Bush's changes immunize past crimes.
Under the US Constitution and US legal tradition, retroactive law is impermissible. What do Americans think of their President's attempts to immunize himself, his government, CIA operatives, military personnel and civilian contractors from war crimes?
Apparently, the self-righteous morally superior American Christian public could care less. The Republican controlled House and Senate, which long ago traded integrity for power, are working to pass Bush's changes prior to the mid-term elections in the event the Republicans fail to steal three elections in a row and Democrats win control of the House or Senate.
Meanwhile, the illegal war in Iraq, based entirely on Bush administration lies, grinds on, murdering and maiming ever more people. According to the latest administration estimate, the pointless killing will go on for another 10-15 years.
Trouble is, there are no US troops to carry on the war. The lack of cannon fodder forces the Bush administration to resort to ever more desperate measures. The latest is the involuntary recall of thousands of Marines from the inactive reserves to active duty. Many attentive people regard this desperate measure as a sign that the military draft will be reinstated.
According to President Bush, the US will lose the war on terror unless the US succeeds in defeating the Iraqi terrorists by establishing democracy in Iraq. Of course, insurgents resisting occupation are not terrorists, and there were no insurgents or terrorists in Iraq until Bush invaded.
Bush's unjustified invasion of Iraq and his support for Israeli aggression have done more to create terrorism in the Muslim world than Osama bin Laden could hope for. The longer Bush occupies Iraq and the more he tries to extend US/Israeli hegemony in the Middle East, the more terrorism the world will suffer.
Bush and the Zionist/neocon ideology that holds him captive are the greatest 21st century threats to peace and stability. The neoconized Bush regime invented the war on terror, lost it, and now is bringing terror home to the American people.
Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.He can be reached at: paulcraigroberts@yahoo.com
For me change. Bush had experience and look what he did...run our economy down to the ground..nm
3
Liar and a crook
As a long time IC there is no way he could forget to pay his self employment taxes...no way at all. I use one of those at home programs and there is a screen for you to input that you are an independent contractor and then it fills out the self employment part. He knew but he just did not pay and got away with it. The IRS even took off his penalties and interest for 2003 and 2004. THey wouldn't do that for you or I. And he didn't pay them until he knew he was being nominated. He's a crook plain and simple but Obama's government is going to be different??? Yeah, right...crooks and thieves all of them.
Dispatch from Bush country
Of course I am talking about Houston, Texas. Your question about what part I live in must be rhetorical. MTs do not live in River Oaks. As a matter of fact, I purchased a condo smack dab in the middle of Sharpstown in 2000, 2 blocks from the intersection of Hillcroft and 59. I made this choice based on my desire to immerse myself in the most culturally diverse area of the city. To give you an idea, in Houston, 90 languages are spoken; 70 of them are spoken in Sharpstown. My family moved to Sharpstown’s neighboring suburb city, Bellaire, TX in 1959, so I am an old-timer, just like you. Basically, these same 4 square miles have been my “hood” for 50 years. Having been an activist since my college years at U of H, where I double-majored in anthropology / sociology and minored in geography, I have watched Houston growth and evolution with keen interest from that perspective all of my adult life.
Before proceeding, let me touch on the issue of crime you raised. Houston metroplex is the 4th largest city in the US but its crime rate rank is 11th. From where I sit, that ain’t too shabby, considering we are talking about 3 million people. I cannot quite understand how it is that, in one fell swoop, you have identified illegal immigrants as being some major source for crime this city. Even in your own example, 2 illegals out of 70 amounts to 2%....hardly cause for such uproar. I think we could at least concede that 70 versus 3 million = apples to oranges.
I know that conservatives havr somewhat of an aversion to the concept of context, so bear with me here for a moment. The issue of population density comes in to play when talking about crime. Sharpstown has an exceedingly dense population is a very small area, particularly the Latino sector. This is due to the presence of the many, many large, sprawling apartment complexes on the landscape. I did a study of this a few years back and was astounded to find that the population density there exceeds that of most major Chinese urban areas. We will revisit this point later.
Around 20 years ago, my neck of the woods was designated as Super Neighborhood by City Council as part of a pre-emptive, progressive, proactive, inclusive approach I spoke of in my previous post. The crime rate has dropped drastically since its inception. The City deemed the area worthy of investment, particularly in light of the nearby diverse populations. As a consequence, 2 blocks from my condo, there are a variety of well funded, well maintained outreach facilities, including a Harris County clinic facility, Jobs for Progress (SER) program facilities that offer job skills training and placement for unemployed and underemployed, Big Brothers / Big Sisters school, day care and rec center, many ESL programs (where I go to volunteer) and a brand new multi-service city facility, similar to a YMCA, that provides both after-school /weekend programs, classes of all sorts for children and adults and a heavy focus on assimilation initiatives that address NEW IMMIGRANT issues in terms of language, education, housing, employment and legal counseing. There is a division there which services the special needs of political refugees, of which there are many.
Let’s pause now for a brief virtual tour of the neighborhood. The Asians are on the western fringe of Sharpstown. It is very apparent just how much wealth their community has generated in the area. The development there has been organized, funded and executed well, primarily by their local residents…very little investment needed from the city. They ask for little and give back much. New businesses continue to pop up month-by-month on the Bellaire Blvd horizon.
If you are still familiar with the geography, you know how many nationalities are visible up and down Hillcroft and how many foreign-owned businesses flourish there and along it’s local cross-street, Harwin, just north of 59. My immediate vicinity, just west of Hillcroft, is sandwiched between the Asian and Latino communities (just east of Hillcroft) to which you refer…we’ll go there momentarily. In this niche, there are 5 of those huge complexes I spoke of. By eyeball count, 90+% Moslems of all sorts live here. In a 5 square block area, there are 2 large mosques, both of them quite beautiful. One of them is situated on the other side of the fence that faces my front door. Every Friday, I hear call to prayer broadcast over the neighborhood. While this may offend some of the more conservative among us, I find it no different than the sound of church bells. In my particular niche, crime is quite rare and when it does occur, even less seldom is it committed by a local resident.
The Latino sector is the most densely populated area of all. Many of the same programs have been implemented on that side of Hillcroft, with similar success, especially in terms of redction in crime rates. I have been shopping at the Fiesta supermarket there since the 1960s, which caters to the international community. The landscape there is also dominated by huge complexes and when I drive though there, I do get a feeling I am south of the border. There are ethnic communities embedded in all major US cities and Houston is no exception. I offer no apologies for this and, in fact, I feel right at home there. After all, the place is part of me and I am part of the place.
BTW, a portion of some of the growth and evolution of Houston’s diversity is directly related to the influx of immigrants created by various types of failed US foreign policies and initiatives, past and present ….Viet Nam, Nicaragua, NAFTA, and the disastrous US-backed coup in Iran in the early 1950s, which took out the secular democratic leader (Mosadegh), who had the audacity to suggest that Iran should control it’s own oil industry through nationalization. They brought the Shah back from exile, their most favorite puppet of the times, whose torture and repression of his opposition ultimately led to the Islamic Revolution in 1979. So much for promoting democracy. Who knows what the face of the Middle East would look like today had Mosadegh remained. Let’s not talk about how backing Israel has destabilized the entire region. Can you say REFUGEE?
In terms of your family members and regarding conservatives as a whole, if you go looking for trouble, you will probably find it. Bigotry does not exactly facilitate clear vision. My previous post was describing the general cultural and political climate of embracing diversity, rather than condemning it. Of course there are detractors, in no small numbers, I might add. I’ll say it again. Generally speaking it works out quite well. Incidents of discrimination against immigrants are extremely rare. I would much rather live in an environment of mutual respect, cooperation and tolerance, rather than taking the fearful, suspicious, paranoid, cold-blooded, hateful, exclusionary approach you and your buddies are promoting.
I think Bush has run this country into the ground.
the better with Obama in office instead of McCain and whatever her name is?????
Yeah, another one of his picks looks like a crook.
nm
Bush sunk himself and our country......DEBT
v
Obama has nothing to do with market... BUSH TANKED OUR COUNTRY nm
nm
Hello?! 8 years of Bush cratered the country & caused this
nightmare in the first place. They are all frantically trying to keep us from another Great Depression caused by Bush & republican control. I personally think the damage runs so deep that it can't be stopped in time, but at least they're trying! Maybe next time the idiots will remember what Bush & his cronies have done & will be smarter than to vote republican...
I say they'll be in the White House by hook or crook
same as W. Gore wimped out.
I don;'t think McCain/Palin are the ones winning by hook or CROOK,
That would be Obama/Biden
Change and Hope: Obama wants your change and hopes you enjoy starving.... sm
...while he's partying like a rock star with the glitterati.
Meanwhile, some little old lady is hoping he doesn't get a dog and sends her the dog food instead.
Yes, they're all nuts. The change they'll get is not the change they thought
I want change. Chump change. I'm voting for Obama as far as the pollsters go.
Obama is change you can believe in until you have to take it to the bank.
Our jobs have been offshored until now because of greed. Under Obama and his taxation of small businesses, they will be offshored not because of greed but because of survival.
You could make a difference for our country by not voting for Obama, but instead, if you vote for him, you are selling out to deception. You are embracing a socialist, a communist, a Marxist, a liar, a cheat, and someone who legally cannot run as President of the U.S., much less the Illinois senate. But, you make your choice. You believe the consumate liar and his lies who sat for 20 years under the teachings of a black racist preacher filled with hatred for the U.S., whose association with Bill Ayers is recent and documented down to the fact that Ayers himself wrote Obama's best-selling book (best-selling in the eyes of far left liberals that is), who is a documented member of the socialist party, whose friends and close allies are extremists who not only bomb innocent people and are unrepenetent but who intend to eliminate (kill) 25 million Americans who they cannot "re-educate" in communist ideaology (gosh dog it, those dreadful capitalists), who refuses to hand over a certified copy of his birth certificate and educational records (my goodness, don't you have to provide your birth certificate to any number of entities who want to know if you are legal, i.e., social security, DMVs, etc., and your educational records would show if you had received aid as a foreigner and in 1963 would have shown you were a negro instead of an African-American which Obama's falsified record shows, please speck up on history), and who thinks Joe the Plumber is so stupid not to realize that if he wants to achieve the American dream, he is going to achieve it only if he lets Obama take what he makes to give to those WHO WILL NOT WORK. I'd like to see you, liberals, give a share of your 7.5 cpl to those who don't work as hard as you, but then with Obama, that's what you will have to do. Don't be fooled by his rhetoric that only those making over $250,00 will be taxed. We will all be taxed, and there will be no incentive to work for any of us because we will all have to give up a piece of our pie so those who do not work can have a piece of our pie.
Here is the dividing line, folks. We are at a crossroads in our history. The Lord Jesus puts it this way, "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction; and there are many who go in by it."
Choose which gate you enter, the wide or the narrow. It not only determines your eternal destination, but it determines the destination of this country. If anyone here calls themself a Christian and can vote for Osambo, I daresay you are a liar and cheat just as he. One cannot be a Christian and vote for a party and a political candidate who is in total rebellion to God's Word. That is a fact, and if you think any differently, then you, too, like the Obamanation, call God a liar. May He have mercy upon your soul. As He makes the rain fall on the just and the unjust because He is no respector of persons, we will all suffer as this country is destroyed and our Constitution that guarantees our freedoms is trampled just as Bill Ayers is pictured standing upon our flag in total disrespect, and we will thank you liberals that we are all in bondage, reduced to third world status, just as the Israelites were in Egypt. Only Obama ain't no Moses but a Muslim and has no favor with God, and there will be no one to lead us to the Promised Land coming from the Democratic party.
A lot of damage can be done in
x
Yes indeed. Lot of RNC damage control going on.
How do the Pubs turn Gustav into a political advantage? We already see them shameless working all the angles and considering their options, but let's face it. They need all the help they can get now that Gustav has blow the wind out of the sails of their copy-cat showcase celebrity VP pick. It's just as well. A 48-hour ride on that boat was just about all the excitement JM could stand at one time.
Any political capital the RNC is trying to get out of Gustav is doomed to fail. What's a party to do? The collective sigh of relief they all are breathing over the Bush and Cheney speech cancellations to go put on their compassionate conservative hats and polish up their leadership image is producing wind gusts up to a Category 10. How can they celebrate the debut of their golden girl on a split screen they share with the drowning of New Orleans Part II and hold their collective breaths at the same time and pray those levies don't break again? One would think they would have the sense to postpone the event until all the ruckus dies down, but if they did that, people might actually start expecting the Prez and VP to deliver their speeches again. They can't have that, now can they?
The dems will not be too worried about Bush/Cheney speech cancellations one way or the other. The RNC opening night and the leadership image role down south are equal opportunities for Bush and Cheney to show their true colors and there is no way the media is going to be polite enough not to be reminding us all about the screw ups last time around, no matter how presidential they try to appear. It's a lose/lose situation no matter how you look at it.
True. The damage has been done. sm
Irretrievably so. But there's no going back now. McCain is stuck with her and she and the economy (and his inability to tell the truth, IMO) are dragging him down:
Polls: Obama Way Up, Palin And Economy Dragging McCain Down
By Eric Kleefeld - October 1, 2008, 12:09PM
Two new national polls show Barack Obama expanding his lead over John McCain to a seven-point margin, thanks in large part to two big problems for McCain. The first one is the economy -- and the second is Sarah Palin.
The numbers from Pew: Obama 49%, McCain 42%, with a ±3.5% margin of error. And from Time: Obama 50%, McCain 43%, with a ±3% margin of error.
In the Time poll, 65% say their personal economic situation has declined in the last year, and this group is going 59% for Obama. In the Pew poll, Obama is trusted over McCain to improve the economy by 51%-33%.
And here's the bad news for Palin. Time says that McCain is losing women at a faster clip than Palin was able to gain them -- before the two conventions, Obama led among women by ten points, which then narrowed to one point after she was picked. Now he leads by 17 points.
And in Pew, Palin's public image has taken a very serious fall. Three weeks ago, Palin was seen as qualified to be president by a 52%-39% margin. Now that number has been reversed: Only 37% think she's qualified, and 51% say she is not.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/polls_obama_way_up_palin_and_e.php
Palin did further damage to herself by going on but sm
It was her choice. She contacted SNL and asked to go on. McCain made some comment about the vast amount of viewers and I guess they thought it was a great way to reach the public but in this case, you really don't want to reach the public by reminding them how you won't answer questions and how unqualified you are. It was just odd to see her there. She wasn't funny and she didn't do anything to help herself. Weird!
Damage from insurgents is minimal?????
nm
Sam busy w/damage control this a,m.
nm
Egads - the dems have done enough damage
Look at their voting records - this is not the direction the country needs to go in. We need a real leader. Someone who will not let us down. Someone who cared more about the people that even when he had a chance to leave the pow camp he chose to stay and not leave his fellow soldiers there. We need a fresh face to Washington to give them the good kick in the pants they need (thank you Gov. Palin - know you'll do an excellent job). Obama is not a fresh face to Washington (he has been there for a couple years now), and Joe Biden has been there for I believe over 30 years (not exactly sure of the number of years, but think its over 30 or close to 30) - so where's the new face Obama promised us.
It's time for a change we can trust in. Time for America and Americans to come first. Not more of the same just labeled as democrats giving false hopes. Has anyone noticed that he said he believes 97K is not middle class. It used to be 250K, now I hear 97K. How much farther down is he going to go. Maybe he believes people who make $12K a year are the middle income. This is not a man I can trust. It's too bad too because I had high hopes for him when I voted for him over Hillary. Now he's just another dirtbag in my opinion and will screw the country while he continues to reap in the money from the big corporations like he has been doing all along.
I agree. There certainly is a lot of damage to repair.
Americans are not the only ones who are ready to turn the page and write a new chapter in the post-911 era. I believe the challenges are so complex that they are no longer amenable to an imperialist or isolationist approach.
There is no one nation that can single-handedly defeat terrorism, a stateless, nationless phenomenon, fueled in part by Anti-American sentiment. The very essence of the challenge dictates the need for alliance, cooperation, concerted efforts, mutual respect and multicultural/multinational involvement. We don't get there by waging more wars. In fact, a radical departure from the most recent approaches is in order.
If Bush can come to the table for the sake of the economy (G7), our leadership certainly should come to the table for the sake of security.
What you are seeing below is a weak attempt at damage control 101...
That announcement sucked all the air out of the big speech, everyone is talking about Sarah Palin, not Barack Obama. And the best they can do is take potshots at Alaska and that she was in a beauty pageant...and oh I thought the rampaging moose thing was REALLLYYYYY funneeeee. Obama is not the only one front and center that people are excited about...and if these folks think the PUMA folks are going to fall into line because the DNC tells them to....they have another think coming. Just my opinion of course....
see the bombing and collateral damage post above....nm
nm
This post is an example of the worst kind of damage
This kind of ignorant, self-righteous, utterly uninformed, breathtakingly bigoted and hate-filled pronouncement, void of any depth or evidence of intellectual capacity, is exactly the kind of divisive belief system and world view W created with his "you are either for us or against us" war on terror. Islam is a monotheist religion, just as Christianity is. The kind of politicized Christianity you have expressed is of the sort that was the driving force behind the Crusades...bloody terrorism in its very worst manifestation. Politicized religion in any form has NOTHING to do with God and the brand that you are promoting here is every bit as much of a terrorist act as a suicide bombing. Moslems pray to the same God that Christians pray to and no amount of hateful bigotry you try spread will change that fundamental truth. As long as you hold this kind of hate in your heart, you will always be a very isolated, fringe element of our society. If you are truly a person of faith, pray to God to to fogive you for this blasphemy, to enlighten you and to purge you of the ignorance and hate you harbor.
I agree with change....change to socialism...
NO THANKS.
About the same damage Clinton did in his final months after the election (NM)
x
No. I love the country side in Alabama...I'm a country girl...nm
Yes killing this country - have you been out of the country the last 3 months or so
Don't you have a clue as to what is happening in America? Where have you been? Don't you listen to what is happening or are you still drinking the kool-aid. That time is over. Put the aid down and wake up. The country is being destroyed. These have been the worst 4 months in the history of bad presidents. Foreclosures are on the rise, unemployment is on the rise, 3+ trillion more in deficit and on the rise, companies shutting down, Clinton for SoS. Napolitano - one of the biggest tragedies to happen to America. The list goes on and on and on and on.
Dubya is not in office anymore. You think dubya "pulled the trigger", well the O keeps reloading it and continues to pull the trigger.
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
DEFINITELY Change!
We have seen where experience gets us!!!! Look at it like this...
How many of you have ever worked a job before and your "boss" (with experience) knows a LOT less about the job than you do?! Bet you all never thought of it like that, huh?!
EXACTLY! And now we have someone who wants to change all that...
and only one side is even TALKING about it. That is the side getting my vote. And this post illustrates the problem with your side..."Repugnants." How is that productive? Zero! What crossing party lines have Dems done? Zero! It should stop on both sides, but the bitterness for whatever reason you see in the Dems on this board apparently is rampant throughout the country, one only has the read the blogs. It is just beyond ridculous, beyond childish, and until our elected leaders can move past it, we are stuck to repeat the same old mistakes over and over and over. One ticket is talking about changing that stagnant swamp in Washington, that is McCain/Palin, and that is one of the reasons I am voting that ticket this time around. They get it.
so much for change....nm
nm
Change
8 years of a Republican president is enough, change is needed. America is in a very bad state.
Maybe you should change...
your name to "Mar Tar."
CHANGE, YES, CHANGE -- we need O to take the
to all the deadbeats who don't wanna work. 
The new change
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iRxZox4GFoIweckPDP1oRhKBlHOwD94CCDU00
This is what I am talking about. Somebody from the INSIDE, a congressman sees our new change coming. This is NOT THE CHANGE I opted for.
From Change.gov
Create a Civilian Assistance Corps (CAC): Obama and Biden will create a national CAC of 25,000 personnel. This corps of civilian volunteers with special skill sets (doctors, lawyers, engineers, city planners, agriculture specialists, police, etc.) would be organized to provide each federal agency with a pool of volunteer experts willing to deploy in times of need at home and abroad.
As far as CD in general, you seriously do not think that we as citizens should be prepared for what to do in the event of a major disaster or, heaven forbid, another terrorist attack?
the change who wants??
that remains to be seen, I think. I am not so sure it is the change I want. Actually, I'm not so sure it is change. Shall we not just wait and see instead of speculating?
Duh, in trying to change
it to many more, I managed to say 'much many'. Think that'll catch on?
This would not change...(sm)
a "christian marriage." Unless, of course, you can show me where in the bible it says anything about legal benefits that come with marriage?
He said what he said! You cant change that.
nm
At least it SHOULD be, for a change!
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