See the quotes posted below...they WERE Christians...
Posted By: sam on 2008-08-22
In Reply to: Thank you for this post - loved it and to the point. - kd
not Deists, and described themselves as such.
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Wellthe Klan might thing their Christians but real Christians don't consider them that sm
They are a radical group calling themselves Christians, like AL Queda calls themselves Muslim.
Are you using hard quotes or air quotes
Of course it matters more than fraud, sham and desperation.
No not Christians, just far right wing radical Christians who,,,sm
believe that God speaks directly only to them and do not welcome anyone who does not have their beliefs.
You know, for someone who quotes...sm
Jimmy Stewart from It's a Wonderful Life, you can't be all that bad.
It's one of my favorite movies.
Other Jefferson quotes
Jefferson was definitely not an atheist as some claim he was. He was more of a deist:
First an excerpt from the Declartion of Independence which Jefferson was instrumental in writing:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain inalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men and for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance upon the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
Excerpted from the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776
Here are some of Jefferson's writings on Separation of Church and state:
Separation of Church From Interference by the State –
Jefferson’s Letter to the Danbury Baptists
In recent years, those who would like to interpret the First Amendment in a manner our forefathers never intended, have made use of the term “Separation of Church and State” to mean that there could be no possible impact or influence of Christianity upon civil government – or even upon education.
The true meaning of the Establishment Clause can be stated in these terms – “Separation of Church from interference by the State.” The only time the expression “Separation of Church and State” was used by a founding father, is in an off-the-record, non-political letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association. He wrote this letter on July l, 1802 replying to their public address which applauded his stance for establishing Religious Freedom. Jefferson prefaces his statement with an assurance to the Danbury Baptists that he concurs with their belief of man being accountable to God alone for his mode of worship, without the government’s coercion or interference:
Jefferson's words: …Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “Make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church and State… end Jefferson's words
Religious Values Protected From Government Interference
The wall of separation between Church and state of which Jefferson speaks, is clearly in reference to protecting religious worship from the government’s interference, and not the government being encroached upon by religious values. Furthermore, the Declaration of Independence itself concludes with an emphasis upon this new nation’s dependence upon God’s protective care:
Jefferson reiterates the excerpt from the Declaration of Independence …with a firm reliance upon the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
Biblical Principles and Christian Values – the Framework for Good Government
It is seen, again and again in the founding fathers’ writings, that they stressed the
need of biblical principles and Christian values as the framework for good government, as attested to throughout this book. While we do not have evidence of Thomas Jefferson having accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior, the only way to salvation, we can affirm that he governed his life by many Christian values and principles. Following are some examples from his writings to illustrate this:
Jefferson’s Prayer for Peace, as it is called, is excerpted from his Second Inaugural Address, delivered on March 4, 1805, as follows:
I shall now enter on the duties to which my fellow-citizens have again called me, and shall proceed in the spirit of those principles which they have approved…I shall need, therefore, all the indulgence I have heretofore experienced…I shall need, too, the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our forefathers, as Israel of old, from their native land and planted them in a country flowing with all the necessities and comforts of life, who has covered our infancy with His Providence and our riper years with His wisdom and power, and to whose goodness I ask you to join with me in supplications that He will so enlighten the minds of your servants, guide their councils and prosper their measures, that whatever they do shall result in your good, and shall secure to you the peace, friendship and approbation of all nations.
Elaborating on the excesses inherent within the hierarchal state-controlled church, Jefferson writes to Moses Robinson on March 23, 1801, from Washington, D.C.:
…The Christian Religion, when divested of the rags in which they (the clergy) have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of its benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind.
If you would like to read the total paper this was excerpted from here's the link:
http://www.christianheritagemins.org/articles/Thomas%20Jefferson,%20Champion%20of%20Religious%20Freedom.htm
Perhaps one of my most favorite quotes...from
a plain-spoken man who I admire...Will Rogers.
"I love a dog. He does nothing for political reasons."
Love these quotes!! s/m
This one, as well as the one below by Edward R. Morrow, really knocked my socks off..!! Thanks for posting them..!!
bible quotes
Yes, I am fairly familiar with Old Testament, in Hebrew, but thank you. The Psalm was written by David, not by G-d. As for Jeremiah, yes G-d does know our souls, before we are even human.
Excellent quotes (nm)
x
where in her post does she say what you have in quotes.
nm
Random Quotes
In Caps, No Less. The last resort of the defeated debater.
Loved the quotes
I love history (love the history channel when they have specials on historical figures) and reading about the great men who worked hard to make this country free. These are all great quotes. Unfortunately in today's day and age there are so many lawyers they have turned everything around and they are destroying (or trying to destroy) what the country was founded on and make it into what they want it to be today, and too many people just don't care about the men in our history (just don't take away their American Idol and Survivor shows. HA HA)
It is so insulting that people are trying to destroy what made this country great and free!
I also saw your message above about the thanks for defending the country. I came from a family of military people (dad and grandpa in navy, uncle in marines, another uncle in the air force, and his son (my cousin) in the marines). I believed in our country (Reagan was president) and still do. I am a patriot to the country - not to a person. If I didn't like our country I would leave and move to another country, but I happen to like this one and it has nothing to do with who the president is. If McCain had been elected I wouldn't love the country any less.
But I do love Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Franklin and all those other great men who fought and risked everything. They had such wisdom, knowledge, and courage. And now look at the modern day politicians. I'm sure the founding fathers are turning over right now.
Happy MLK Day! - Quotes from the great man....sm
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
Our nettlesome task is to discover how to organize our strength into compelling power.
A man who won't die for something is not fit to live.
There is nothing more dangerous than to build a society, with a large segment of people in that society, who feel that they have no stake in it; who feel that they have nothing to lose. People who have a stake in their society, protect that society, but when they don't have it, they unconsciously want to destroy it.
If a man is called to be a streetsweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the host of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great streetsweeper who did his job well.
I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become reality. I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word.
Violence as a way of achieving racial justice is both impractical and immoral. It is impractical because it is a descending spiral ending in destruction for all. It is immoral because it seeks to humiliate the opponent rather than win his understanding; it seeks to annihilate rather than to convert. Violence is immoral because it thrives on hatred rather than love.
A few quotes from Palin regarding God and politics.
In the address at the Assembly of God Church here, Ms. Palin’s ease in talking about the intersection of faith and public life was clear. Among other things, she encouraged the group of young church leaders to pray that “God’s will” be done in bringing about the construction of a big pipeline in the state, and suggested her work as governor would be hampered “if the people of Alaska’s heart isn’t right with God.”
She also told the group that her eldest child, Track, would soon be deployed by the Army to Iraq, and that they should pray “that our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God, that’s what we have to make sure we are praying for, that there is a plan, and that plan is God’s plan.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/06/us/politics/06church.html?em
You mean like McCain's sneering air quotes as
Yeah, right. That Obama is a baby killer myth serves no useful purpose except to bring down poll numbers. Keep it up, but don't expect any validation out of educated voters.
In Quotes: The US Election Reacton sm
Quotes from high-ranking officials, both domestic and foreign.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/us_elections_2008/7710020.stm
I have read the quotes, so I hear what you're saying...sm
and I have also read quotes from prominent republicans who opposed air strikes smunder Clinton. They didn't agree with it and didn't think Saddam should be attacked then, pure partisanship at work. Those quotes are posted on the liberal board, if you're interested read back through them. Some are even quoted saying that an exit plan was imperative. Where are they with their big voices now??? I'll tell you, they're sucking on a Dick Cheney lollipop.
On the war on Iraq, MY sight has been 20/20 prewar and remains the same now. I have always disagreed with going to war in Iraq, but I can only cast one vote.
Here are a few quotes from James Cone's book...
the author of Black Liberation Theology...you were not looking at the black liberation theology practiced at Trinity...James Cone is central to that, says so on their website, unless they have taken it down.
Here are a couple of direct quotes:
"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."
"Black hatred is the black man's strong aversion to white society. No black man living in white America can escape it... While it is true that blacks do hate whites, black hatred is not racism. " Excuse me...WHAT??
That is the racist part.
Here is the Marxist part:
One of the pillars of Obama’s home church, Trinity United Church of Christ, is "economic parity." On the website, Trinity claims that God is not pleased with "America’s economic mal-distribution." Among all of controversial comments by Jeremiah Wright, the idea of massive wealth redistribution is the most alarming. The code language "economic parity" and references to "mal-distribution" is nothing more than channeling the twisted economic views of Karl Marx. Black Liberation theologians have explicitly stated a preference for Marxism as an ethical framework for the black church because Marxist thought is predicated on a system of oppressor class (whites) versus victim class (blacks).
Black Liberation theologians James Cone and Cornel West have worked diligently to embed Marxist thought into the black church since the 1970s. For Cone, Marxism best addressed remedies to the condition of blacks as victims of white oppression. In For My People, Cone explains that "the Christian faith does not possess in its nature the means for analyzing the structure of capitalism. Marxism as a tool of social analysis can disclose the gap between appearance and reality, and thereby help Christians to see how things really are."
That is just the tip of the iceberg.
Here is just a little bit for you, quotes of the founding fathers...NOT deists as you would like to
talk about arrogance. Your post is heavvyyyy with it.
Early Years
The First Charter of Virginia (granted by King James I, on April 10, 1606)
• We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God…
Instructions for the Virginia Colony (1606)
Lastly and chiefly the way to prosper and achieve good success is to make yourselves all of one mind for the good of your country and your own, and to serve and fear God the Giver of all Goodness, for every plantation which our Heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted out.
William Bradford
• wrote that they [the Pilgrims] were seeking:
• 1) "a better, and easier place of living”; and that “the children of the group were being drawn away by evil examples into extravagance and dangerous courses [in Holland]“
• 2) “The great hope, and for the propagating and advancing the gospel of the kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of the world"
The Mayflower Compact (authored by William Bradford) 1620 | Signing of the Mayflower painting | Picture of Compact
“Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine our selves together…”
______________________________________________________________________
John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]
John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean He**." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] |
.......click here to see this quote in its context and to see John Adams' quotes taken OUT of context!
Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]
“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]
John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.
“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61
Elias Boudinot: | Portrait of Elias Boudinot
“ Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits.”
Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]
Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."
Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”
On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”
"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"
Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”
John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.
“Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.” [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, Editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]
Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]
Note all the references to Christianity and to Jesus. Now that your lies are put to rest, can we please move ON?
Read the quotes. They were NOT secularists. The Lord Jesus Christ was part of their everyday lives. It was not something they put on on Sunday and took off on Monday, like some religious types do. It was ingrained in everything they did. That is what Christianity is.
What you are so angry about is that someone is still willing to call something that is wrong...wrong. You don't like feeling guilty so you attack...that is a normal human response. Examine why it makes you so angry to think this country was founded by Christians and all our founding documents are based on Christian ideals.
A couple of quotes from Obama books to consider
From Dreams of My Father:'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'
From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'
From Dreams of My Father:'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'
From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'
From Dreams of My Father:'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'
And FINALLY the Most damaging one of ALL of them!!!
From Audacity of Hope:'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'
Total propaganda...quotes taken out of context!
This subject has already been discussed ad nauseum on this forum. It has been proven that the quotes were either totally inaccurate or taken completely out of context. Please do some research before you post this type of propaganda and/or read Obama's book, which is actually entitled "Dreams From My Father."
Quotes from when Clinton committed troops to Bosnia
Quotes from when Clinton committed troops to Bosnia:
You can support the troops but not the president. --Rep Tom Delay
(R-TX)
Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're
going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years. --Joe Scarborough
(R-FL)
Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may
come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their
life? --Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99
[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might
on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit
strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will
cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long
they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound
foreign policy. --Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)
American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the
administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign
policy. --Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)
If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they
have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy. --Karen
Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush (words are really too big
to have been spoken by GWB)
I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning ... I
didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area. --Senator
Trent Lott (R-MS)
I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it
is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just
learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with
very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later,
these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of
engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of
victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no
clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended
military. There is no explanation defining what vital national
interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the
President started this thing, and there still is no plan today --Rep
Tom Delay (R-TX)
Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to
explain to us what the exit strategy is . --Governor George W. Bush
(R-TX)
Funny thing is, we won that war without a single AMERICAN killed in
action. Bush can't make that claim now! And where is HIS exit
strategy?
No new adult film star quotes for today
now you're rehasing the old one....
Long Live King George!!
Please provide verifiable quotes to back up your claim.
I am not right or left and think you are all pretty much full of it but I have to see allegations made without proof. I haven't seen the staunchest of Republicans doing anything of the sort. I really hate when people throw things out without any kind of fact behind it.
gotta just love your out of context quotes....too bad you don't have the rest of
Sorry - guess you can't use quotes. I meant Orwell's 1984.
NM
You mean Christians.
Is that what you are talking about? What other board?
That may be so....but Christians, at least the ones I know...
do not want to control the government. And too many times a strictly moral issue is ascribed to a "religious nut." Take abortion for example. There are nonreligious people who are against abortion, strictly on moral grounds, that it is wrong to kill innocent life. There are liberals who are against abortion for that reason...their reasoning is that you can't be against war because it kills and be for abortion, because it kills. That is their reasoning. For me, the basic moral precept of not committing murder should apply to the unborn as well as the "born" and that basic moral precept is enhanced by my faith. Everything I know about Jesus tells me his heart breaks every time an abortion occurs. Because of my faith, my heart also hurts for those millions of lives ended. People talk on and on and on about individual freedoms...yet walk all over the most basic of those...the right to life. Somehow people think they have the right to choose whether someone gets to live or not live. And I think that is way too much power...for one individual to have over the life of another. In any other case of that, when a person exercises that kind of power...it is illegal, it is wrong, it is murder, or manslaughter, or whatever you want to call it. And then you get into the business of defining when life starts. It is just my opinion that that is not a decision that is up to us. And an opinion I am entitled to. People protest the death penalty. No one calls them fanatics. To me there is no difference...lethal injection, abortion. Both kill. Sure, one has comitted a crime, which only makes the other more heinous. What crime did that developing child commit?
I do not say that to start an abortion thread. It is just to illustrate a point. I, as a Christian, believe in a moral code. I believe you should care about your fellow man, and churches in this country used to take care of the poor and weak in this country, before such a thing as a social program. No one had to force us to do it, we just did it. That kind of serving attitude, in my opinion, is good in public servants. They do need to serve a cause greater than themselves, and in their case I am not saying it is God. I am saying it is the American people. If more lawmakers listened to their Christian teachings they would do so. Not just serving God in their everyday lives, but serving the American people, because that is their job.
I agree it is not up to lawmakers to project their beliefs on an entire nation. Again there is the issue of abortion. That is not a "religious" issue. It is a moral issue...there are many nonreligious people who believe that it is wrong. Just like people believe other things are wrong and seek to legislate against those. Not from "religious" grounds, but moral grounds.
And you shouldn't characterize all Christians with the radicals. We are exhorted not to characterize all Muslims as terrorists. Just afford Christians the same courtesy, that's all I am saying.
no wonder christians have a bad name
Wow, aren't you a little smarty pants. So glad the whole world isn't just like you. I'm a Jew, we believe G-d's name is sacred and don't like to write it out unless it is going to be protected. Maybe you should go to h*ll because you don't seem to be a good example of how a christian should behave.
I have faith in G-d, and my people have for many, many years, long before there was a Jesus.
Well, not all Christians, but most of the
one on this board. I am a diest myself.
I'm just saying what most Christians believe
Just explaining why people see Muslim as wrong. I don't judge anybody or their beliefs. I can't stand people who do that and act all high and mighty. I have my own personal ones I won't get into here, but I would never force mine on somebody else.
Do you think that Christians who
believe abortion is murder are just religious quacks trying to push their religious beliefs on others? You don't have to be Christian to believe that abortion is wrong.
I do believe that there are some Christians out there who do turn more people away from religion than bringing them to it because of the way they go about it. But having religion and believing in things doesn't mean that we should have to give up our beliefs because someone else does not any more than you should have to put up with religion when you don't believe. This is where we have the problem.
I think abortion has to be a give and take kind of thing. I personally feel that it is wrong, however, I would be willing to compromise for the sake of meeting in the middle with people who believe it is a personal choice and not murder. I am 100% against late-term abortions as I feel there is no other word for that than MURDER. However, I could live with the early abortions. I have no problem with the morning after pill as to me that isn't much different than the birth control pill.
I just feel that there are people on the far right who need to unwind their panties..but I also believe that there are some far left people who need to do so themselves.
This is kind of like smokers versus non-smokers. Smokers feel they have the right to light up wherever they want because that is their right. However, non-smokers have a right to breathe clean air. So which one is right? Who rights are infringed upon?
Abortion is another subject where not everyone will be completely happy with. No matter what decision is made, people are going to complain. I just wish that we could somehow meet in the middle. Allow early term, deny late-term unless it is a life/death situation and just shut up about it.
Christians?
This was a very misfortunate event, but it was just an example of cult worship and weak minded people that killed their own children. I have no respect for people who kill children - NONE!
Christians?
I would have to wonder about that. Christians worship Jesus/God. Those people worshiped Jones, though they claimed to be Christians. Christianity is not a cult.
True Christians?!?!?
This is JOKE, right?? An article out of MAD Magazine or something???
I wish they would be real Christians. Just once.
It's very hard to understand how those who cheer war, torture and the fleecing of the poor think that their values are Jesus-oriented. It is scary to think what they have made of Jesus in their own minds, to believe he is applauding what they do.
Christians do that, not Muslims.
You state regarding Obama...He's linked with Ahmedinejad and therefore if he gets elected they will have an open invitation to come and get us and turn everyone into a muslim.
The last time I checked, it was the Christians who were trying to make everyone accept Jesus Christ as their savior and convert to them Christianity. Personally, I have never heard of Muslims trying to force anyone to believe as they do.
She didn't say anything about Christians
nm
Sorry you are so bitter towards Christians but you are right
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true Christians
I consider myself a true Christian. I was baptized in the Southern Baptist Church when I was 11, and converted to Presbyterian Church USA as an adult, where I am an ordained Elder and Deacon. I am voting for Obama.
I am pro-choice and pro gay civil unions. The bible talks a lot more about tithing than it does about homosexuality (we just had a great sermon on this, but I don't remember the exact number difference.) Most Christians aren't up in arms for those who don't tithe. Homosexuality has been around forever, as has abortion (performed by midwives, etc., using herbs and other methods.)
I am married, with 2 children. I have never had to make the choice on abortion and hopefully never will. I hope my daughter never has to make this choice, but I sure as h@ll want it to be available to her if she does.
I think marriage is up to the individual churches, and many churches do perform gay marriages. I think that the government should allow civil unions. I really don't care what 2 people come together as a couple. I wish them all the love and happiness and support I have had in my own marriage for 21+ years.
How dare you say I am not a true Christian because my beliefs are different from yours. Christians come in many "flavors" and you are free to believe as you wish, and I don't think you are more or less Christian because of it.
I agree with the other posters, religion and politics don't mix and never should.
They are NOT Christians......they are evil
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not all republicans are christians.
x
Why woul d you think this was done by Christians?
Racial slurs and swastikas are your idea of Christian symbols? What you are speaking of is a crime, but I wouldn't chalk it up to Christians.
And I will gladly identify as a Christians. Though I don't usually thump my Bible, I do read it.
Why do Christians think atheists are
I am an atheist. I have a bachelors degree in theology. The atheists and agnostics I know personally have read and studied the Bible and many other belief systems before coming to the point in their lives where they come of the theological closet, as it were. In some cases, they are even more knowledgeable than some that practice the faith because they do not read the bible with a set doctrine that interprets it for them. The oft-held belief that all atheists are not knowledgeable of the Bible is simply not true.
So it's okay to offend Christians...
And yet this putz bows to Muslims.
Things that make you go 'hmmmm.'
He does not only lead Christians
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why is it that the Christians are self-righteous sm
condescending and judgement and insulting and your posts are not? Whether you get to heaven is based on whether you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and SAvior. You cannot do anything on your own to warrant heaven.
Whether you believe or not, I am not going to deny my Lord and Savior because you think I am condescending or anything else. I truly hope you reconsider.
So you don't think Christmas is for the Christians?
Wow. I thought that was how it got its name. Good Friday/Easter aren't about Christians?
Since you don't believe that these are celebration of Christian theology, please don't let your voice be one of those complaining about the secularization of Christmas, since you don't feel it's Christian anyway.
First of all Christians who witness know sm
they cannot "save" anyone. Only Jesus Christ can save a soul. If a Christian is witnessing the proper way, he isn't pushing anything down anyone's throat. I will admit, there are some who don't do things correctly and it makes it bad for the ones who do.
As a Christian I want to see everyone I can come to know the Lord Jesus Chris in the free pardon of sin. They have every right to the same heaven I do. Its up to that person to decide who they will serve. It is a free choice.
Why are you using only Christians in this debate
I think a lot of people opposed to gay marriage are not Christians at all, and some who may be in support of it may very well be Christians. What does being Christian have to do with it at all?
I SAID most religious people...I did NOT say most Christians.
You guys don't rule the world, ya know. Just your little corner...just your own lives, not everyone else's.
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