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See message (unsure of a subject title to put)

Posted By: me on 2009-05-01
In Reply to: Religulous torture....(sm) - Just the big bad

I have mixed feelings. There are horrible things going on in the world and always will be. Some call it torture others do not. It's all a matter of opinion. The people who are interrogators are trained in how to obtain information from the enemies. We (you and me and others on this board) are not. What is your solution to this? What do you suggest they do to keep America safe? Do you have any solutions or suggestions? We don't kill prisoners - unlike our enemies. However, we must use whatever technique we can to get the vital information needed. We don't cause bodily injury, and we don't cut off their heads very slowly like they do. So, they think they are going to die, you know what...I don't care. Just get the information needed to keep America safe. Unless you belong to the military or any of these government agencies involved in this type of work, you don't really know what is going on. Sorry but sitting down with a nice cup of tea and some crumpets and asking them nicely is not going to get them to speak. I say leave the decisions like this to the people who are in charge of this and trained in this. More important things going on than to think about if we are hurting the feelings of our enemies.

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No YOU don't get it - we're tired of the subject - see message
They lost you won. End of story. Leave the families alone. Didn't you listen to anything Obama said during his campaigning. You want to talk about something the candidates are doing or did fine, that's one thing. But leave the families alone. This goes for Michelle Obama as well as Bristol Palin and her boyfriend.

You don't get it, you really don't. Palin cannot control what her kids do. Yes you can preach anything you want all day long to your kids but in the end kids are going to do whatever they want to do. However in this case her "kid" is an adult and knows fully well what she was doing. I have an aunt and uncle who are extremely involved in their church (they have positions with the head of the church, and go to meeting 3 times a week and Sundays, etc). She goes around town recruiting and teaching abstinence to kids, etc. She sings holy praises of her daughter (17 years old) tells everyone how perfect she is, she follows the path of Jesus, she's responsible, etc, etc, etc. She keeps tabs on her very very very closely (on the cell phone with her every hour wanting to know where she is and what she is doing. Well guess who got pregnant. Miss high and mighty's daughter. I thought well there goes your shot of having the perfect family to display for the church. That was about a year ago. Since then they have had their problems. Do you think I'm sitting here rejoicing that they are going through their periods of grief. No, and its not cos they are relatives because a lot of family's I don't know from their church are facing the same thing and its sad to know what they are going through. I don't care how much disdain one has for someone, to get joy out of watching their families suffer is just really pitiful.

When someone who preaches on the wrong doings of having a relationship before getting married and then their own children end up pregnant (nothing that the parents can prevent), it really brings them back to reality and makes them realize that everyone is human, and I have heard Sara Palin say that in interviews given.

It still astounds me at the force of hatred that people still have for Sarah Palin. I just don't understand it at all. If people didn't like her policies that's one thing, there were those that didn't like Obama's policies either. But the utter disdain and hatred towards her pretty much wishing her dead (not you in particular but others), I just don't get it. I don't hate anyone that much, especially to see anyone in their family going through hard times and grief. But to get such absolute joy from this is just sick. It's the same kind of sickness that people who like to hurt animals will get from doing that.

When McCain and Palin were running for office, I didn't hear too much about the abstinence thing. What I did hear was their plans to help grow business, keep taxes low, and other things to grow the economy. I may have heard her mention teaching kids abstinence once or twice throughout the campaign but that was it. You make it sound like that's all she talked about and it wasn't.

BTW - I didn't know Bristol and her boyfriend/fiance were both living in Sarah's house, and particularly I don't care. I hope they find some happiness and I hope the media will one day leave them alone. Too many other problems going on in the country (i.e. unemployment, people losing homes, people's lives devastated by tornadoes and other natural disasters, people losing their retirements because of decisions WA is making (that is while the politicians in WA paycheck and retirement accounts are growing), thousands of people going hungry and suffering, etc, etc) and this is what people want to keep talking about. How fun and joyful it is that Bristol Palin is going through what she is going through and we should be happy about that because why? It affects Sara Palin and people would like to shove the knife in her back and twist is just a little bit more.

C'mon people - grow up!

Second BTW - I'm not a republican so you don't have to shout it and say you republican. I'm a registered democrat and I voted for the O (yes, I know, I too was scammed by the lies, just glad I've woken up and now listen to common sense people and not the scammers anymore), so I'd really watch who you call a democrat or repbulican. Not all democrats are in support of the annointed one or of what congress/senate/house is doing to our country.
I am sick to death of this subject - see message
This is not directed at any one poster in particular, just my overall opinion on what I've read in all the posts below.

You all seem to know exactly what goes on with waterboarding, or even that what you have to say (for or against it) will matter.

First here's a fact for you - only three people have ever been waterboarded. You act as though they are waterboarding everyone. And you know what. These 3 people were really really really bad people and were for chopping off heads, beating, electrocuting, and other horrible means of torture. Waterboarding, oh those poor babies, how horrible. You know what, whether it's torture or not - who cares. It worked! The experts say it worked and I believe them. All these libs in politics try and say it doesn't work. Well guess what - they got the information they needed. They don't waterboard them then kill them, and they have trained people there watching. I'm sure if given the choice of either getting waterboarded or their head chopped off they'd opt for waterboarding.

I'm sick of everyone professing to be an expert of whether or not waterboard is torture and since you are all not there watching it happen in person you don't know. These are all your opinions. And you know what? They don't matter one iota because whatever way our experts can get information from terrorists is the way it should be done. We don't electrocute them, beat them, break or crush their bones, cut them, or do anything to physically harm them.

Why don't you leave it up to the experts to get information whatever way they need to to keep our country safe and stop whining and bickering with each other about your own personal feelings of whether you think this is torture or not, and your okay with this but your not with that, etc, etc.

So that's my opinion (and yes everyone has one). Okay, flame away - got my resistent suit on. :-)
unsure if registered to vote?
maybe you have kids, friends or neighbors that weren't sure?  can go to canivote.org and find out.  (info came through our post office).
</a><br /> semeni4 semeni4 is a cool boy!! <a href=http://curio-cabinet.mctry.com> Curio cabinet </a> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="I can see the title of her next book now...sm" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-I-can-see-the-title-of-her-next-book-now-sm-6328.html">I can see the title of her next book now...sm</a><br /> *The Liberals Took My Voting Rights.* She's such a nutjob! <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Actually, I believe it's an album title." href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Actually-I-believe-it-39s-an-album-title--25667.html">Actually, I believe it's an album title.</a><br /> point you hoped to achieve by posting that? Or did you just think it sounded clever? It means "attention" or "careful," and as such, does not even address the issue. Please, do tell how a rumor about SP possibly trying to get someone fired translates to her "loving to fire people." Was there proof that she had someone fired? Or do you always believe everything you hear on TV and take it as gospel without looking into the facts? <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="I believe the title is "Holiness"" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-I-believe-the-title-is-34Holiness-34-55915.html">I believe the title is "Holiness"</a><br /> <P>x</P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="You need to reread the title......." href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-You-need-to-reread-the-title--57651.html">You need to reread the title.......</a><br /> xx <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Exactly. You would think the job title would have given the Prez. a hint.sm" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Exactly-You-would-think-the-job-title-would-have-given-the-Prez-a-hint-sm-2377.html">Exactly. You would think the job title would have given the Prez. a hint.sm</a><br /> You know, Federal EMERGENCY Management Agency. Sometimes I wonder, no I wonder a lot about this prez and his decision making. <br /> <br /> Will 2008 get here soon enough? No telling what he'll do in a WHOLE 2-1/2 years.<br /> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="See inside. I can't figure out what to title this. LOL" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-See-inside-I-can-39t-figure-out-what-to-title-this-LOL-49932.html">See inside. I can't figure out what to title this. LOL</a><br /> <P>I just don't know a nice way to say this but those families that have babies they can't afford do so just to get on the welfare system. They certainly don't want that taken away from them. As long as they have babies, they won't have to work and live off the system. </P><br /> <P>What does Pelosi plan to do? Force everyone on birth control that have X amount of dollars per each child and state "You make $1 less than you're allowed to have this many children. Now you go on birth control." </P><br /> <P>Before you flame me, my husband's cousin did that. He was too lazy to work as was his wife...well, nah, she didn't have time to get a job. She was too busy having kids. </P><br /> <P> </P><br /> <P> </P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="That is NOT in the title. More lies. Keep drinking." href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-That-is-NOT-in-the-title-More-lies-Keep-drinking--57546.html">That is NOT in the title. More lies. Keep drinking.</a><br /> nm <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="The dark side of faith (title of article)" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-The-dark-side-of-faith-title-of-article--3625.html">The dark side of faith (title of article)</a><br /> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width=100% border=0><br /> <TBODY><br /> <TR><br /> <TD bgColor=#ffffff><br /> <P><FONT color=#333300><EM><STRONG>(Considering how much importance the *right* religion is going to play in our future Supreme Court, I thought it was ironic that I found this at the Professional Ethics site. http://ethics.tamucc.edu/article.pl?sid=05/10/01/1656216)</STRONG></EM></FONT></P><br /> <P><A href=http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-brooks1oct01,0,3034570.story?track=hpmostemailedlink>http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-brooks1oct01,0,3034570.story?track=hpmostemailedlink</A><BR></P><br /> <H1>The dark side of faith</H1>By ROSA BROOKS<BR><BR>October 1, 2005<BR><BR>IT'S OFFICIAL: Too much religion may be a dangerous thing. <BR><BR>This is the implication of a study reported in the current issue of the Journal of Religion and Society, a publication of Creighton University's Center for the Study of Religion. The study, by evolutionary scientist Gregory S. Paul, looks at the correlation between levels of popular religiosity and various quantifiable societal health indicators in 18 prosperous democracies, including the United States.<BR><BR>Paul ranked societies based on the percentage of their population expressing absolute belief in God, the frequency of prayer reported by their citizens and their frequency of attendance at religious services. He then correlated this with data on rates of homicide, sexually transmitted disease, teen pregnancy, abortion and child mortality.<BR><BR>He found that the most religious democracies exhibited substantially higher degrees of social dysfunction than societies with larger percentages of atheists and agnostics. Of the nations studied, the U.S. — which has by far the largest percentage of people who take the Bible literally and express absolute belief in God (and the lowest percentage of atheists and agnostics) — also has by far the highest levels of homicide, abortion, teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. <BR><BR>This conclusion will come as no surprise to those who have long gnashed their teeth in frustration while listening to right-wing evangelical claims that secular liberals are weak on values. Paul's study confirms globally what is already evident in the U.S.: When it comes to values, if you look at facts rather than mere rhetoric, the substantially more secular blue states routinely leave the Bible Belt red states in the dust.<BR><BR>Murder rates? Six of the seven states with the highest 2003 homicide rates were red in the 2004 elections (Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, South Carolina), while the deep blue Northeastern states had murder rates well below the national average. Infant mortality rates? Highest in the South and Southwest; lowest in New England. Divorce rates? Marriages break up far more in red states than in blue. Teen pregnancy rates? The same.<BR><BR>Of course, the red/blue divide is only an imperfect proxy for levels of religiosity. And while Paul's study found that the correlation between high degrees of religiosity and high degrees of social dysfunction appears robust, it could be that high levels of social dysfunction fuel religiosity, rather than the other way around. <BR><BR>Although correlation is not causation, Paul's study offers much food for thought. At a minimum, his findings suggest that contrary to popular belief, lack of religiosity does societies no particular harm. This should offer ammunition to those who maintain that religious belief is a purely private matter and that government should remain neutral, not only among religions but also between religion and lack of religion. It should also give a boost to critics of faith-based social services and abstinence-only disease and pregnancy prevention programs.<BR><BR>We shouldn't shy away from the possibility that too much religiosity may be socially dangerous. Secular, rationalist approaches to problem-solving emphasize uncertainty, evidence and perpetual reevaluation. Religious faith is inherently nonrational. <BR><BR>This in itself does not make religion worthless or dangerous. All humans hold nonrational beliefs, and some of these may have both individual and societal value. But historically, societies run into trouble when powerful religions become imperial and absolutist.<BR><BR>The claim that religion can have a dark side should not be news. Does anyone doubt that Islamic extremism is linked to the recent rise in international terrorism? And since the history of Christianity is every bit as blood-drenched as the history of Islam, why should we doubt that extremist forms of modern American Christianity have their own pernicious and measurable effects on national health and well-being? <BR><BR>Arguably, Paul's study invites us to conclude that the most serious threat humanity faces today is religious extremism: nonrational, absolutist belief systems that refuse to tolerate difference and dissent. <BR><BR>My prediction is that right-wing evangelicals will do their best to discredit Paul's substantive findings. But when they fail, they'll just shrug: So what if highly religious societies have more murders and disease than less religious societies? Remember the trials of Job? God likes to test the faithful. <BR><BR>To the truly nonrational, even evidence that on its face undermines your beliefs can be twisted to support them. Absolutism means never having to say you're sorry. <BR><BR>And that, of course, is what makes it so very dangerous. <br /> <DIV></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="please note...the title line of the previous post were...." href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-please-note-the-title-line-of-the-previous-post-were--22095.html">please note...the title line of the previous post were....</a><br /> sim's words, not mine. Refer to her/his post. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="You are correct, I got one word of the title of his book incorrect," href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-You-are-correct-I-got-one-word-of-the-title-of-his-book-incorrect--27338.html">You are correct, I got one word of the title of his book incorrect,</a><br /> and for that I apologize. However, the information I quoted from the book is correct, "Frank" is a communist. But, the fact remains, I never called Obama a communist. If I knew he was, I would not hesitate to call him one. I do know he is a socialist, and I call him one.<br /> <br /> No need to ridicule and call others ignorant to make a point. It somewhat dulls any point you try to make. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Don't think you read the same article, THAT IS THE TITLE...see the link I posted..." href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Don-39t-think-you-read-the-same-article-THAT-IS-THE-TITLE-see-the-link-I-posted--42212.html">Don't think you read the same article, THAT IS THE TITLE...see the link I posted...</a><br /> <P> xx</P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Did you notice the question mark at the end of the article's title?" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Did-you-notice-the-question-mark-at-the-end-of-the-article-39s-title--46765.html">Did you notice the question mark at the end of the article's title?</a><br /> Do you understand the meaning of "potential?" Imagine that. Judges have a "natural predisposition" toward complying with the DEMOCRATIC WILL OF THE PEOPLE. What a crazy and novel idea. <br /> <br /> The truth has been out there for quite a while now. There is no THERE there. This is sheer lunacy, but hey, knock yourselves out. Nobody's listening to this garbage and the entire nation has much more pressing issues to worry about, but to remind you of them here would be a complete waste of time, in view of this myopic obsessive fixation of a marginalized tiny fringe minority of the GOP (which has been recently denounced by other, more intelligent republicans). <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="You miss the title of the file "Conservative extremism"? " href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-You-miss-the-title-of-the-file-34Conservative-extremism-34--57502.html">You miss the title of the file "Conservative extremism"? </a><br /> xx <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Provide a link to the document with that title. None of the official copies I've seen use the wor" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Provide-a-link-to-the-document-with-that-title-None-of-the-official-copies-I-39ve-seen-use-the-wor-57653.html">Provide a link to the document with that title. None of the official copies I've seen use the wor</a><br /> nm <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="LOL...off the subject" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-LOL-off-the-subject-4099.html">LOL...off the subject</a><br /> <P>Don't know if that's true about Bill or not, but the graphic showing the top 3 newsmakers with Mr. Floatie--join the movement gave me my much needed gut laugh for today....   <IMG src=http://www.forumatrix.com/smileys/biglaugh.gif></P><br /> <P>What can I say...I like potty humor...please don't flame me  <IMG src=http://www.forumatrix.com/smileys/smile.gif></P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="On every subject" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-On-every-subject-39654.html">On every subject</a><br /> <P>one can see good and bad.  All people will never agree on anything.and there is good and bad in all people.  I most certainly do not think blacks need to be compensated for their ancestors but count on it, that will happen no matter who is in the White House.  I don't think slavery was right either but you know what?  I wasn't around 150 years go to own any slaves so I'm not accepting any guilt trip.  The repatrition (or whatever the word is), if that gets seriously considered in CONGRESS, you can bet my Senator and Representative will get an ear full from their old "friend" the gourd!  LOL</P><br /> <P>I certainly don't mean to start a race war but blacks have the same opportunities in this country as whites.  Have a look at one of the presidential candidates.</P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Do you even know what the subject is here?..(sm)" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Do-you-even-know-what-the-subject-is-here-sm--47899.html">Do you even know what the subject is here?..(sm)</a><br /> <P>Yeah, I think I'm through with this board.  The incoherent ramblings from pubs on here is getting boring.</P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="He already has been subject to a different" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-He-already-has-been-subject-to-a-different-50132.html">He already has been subject to a different</a><br /> standard.  He had to run a campaign with little or no mistakes, which he did.  He has always been held to a higher standard.  If he had run a campaign like Clinton's or McCain's, he would have been a laughing stock.  Being held to a higher standard will probably make him the best president we've seen in our lifetimes.  <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Just a little touchy about this subject." href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Just-a-little-touchy-about-this-subject--4884.html">Just a little touchy about this subject.</a><br /> Get so darn mad about the whole Iraq mess we are in, and wish it would go away.  Bin Laden is a thorn in Bush's side because of the friendship between their families that it would be obscene for him to kill his friend.  So transparent.  Makes me ill to think of what he has done to this country, when there is a REAL threat with Iran.  Now what?  Our troops in Iraq fighting a war that can't be won, but Iran is now free to do whatever they want.  Sorry about the harsh words earlier, just sick of the whole matter, and where we as a nation are headed.  And it is good to see that his lying is finally coming out, what dispicable things he has said and done, and what a can of worms!  Thank goodness it is coming out. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="The subject in this thread is a cat." href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-The-subject-in-this-thread-is-a-cat--5658.html">The subject in this thread is a cat.</a><br /> How did we get to this?  And is it really necessary to call names?  I mean, we are civilized people after all. It's rather hard to understand why you attack someone even when they are AGREEING with you.  I try to be respectful here, but it's very hard to communicate when the subject is changed constantly in a thread.  Perhaps an I hate Bush and all conservative thread would be best started and all posts to that effect might go there.  Nothing is being furthered here except what seems to be a very bad grudge.  In a public forum.  Really not cool.  <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="On the subject of Plame..." href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-On-the-subject-of-Plame--18483.html">On the subject of Plame...</a><br /> <P>what about Richard Armitage?  Certainly no conservative, certainly no Bush lover, definitely against Iraq war...he said HIMSELF that he talked to the <a class=word href=http://www.mtstars.com/medical_transcription/Washington/>Washington</a> Post about Plame being in the CIA before Libby said anything to Novak.  He felt comfortable doing so because "it was common knowledge around Washington that Wilson's wife worked for trhe CIA."  Wilson himself brought all this on with the op ed piece he wrote in the times trying to smear the administration.  That is what made Novak say...hmmmm....why would the administration send a Bush hater to Niger?  Welllll because the CIA suggested him...and whoooo in the CIA suggested him?  Valerie Plame.   But no one, including the illustrious Patrick Fitzgerald, paid a lick of attention to that.  </P><br /> <P>Agendas, agendas, agendas.  Wilson and Plame out to get the administration, Patrick Fitzgerald to get a name for himself...no matter what the cost.  And poor old Scooter took the fall, along with the first amendment.  </P><br /> <P>Oh well....all for the cause right?  Get Bush no matter what.  Sigh.</P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Looks like you want to keep arguing on a subject that's old and done with" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Looks-like-you-want-to-keep-arguing-on-a-subject-that-39s-old-and-done-with-21231.html">Looks like you want to keep arguing on a subject that's old and done with</a><br /> We don't need to keep going over issues on abortion. We all know what abortion is. I started reading your post and didn't know if you were trying to give us a medical course on "what to expect when your expecting" or if you were preaching to us from a religious standpoint. This issue was discussed and debated and argued over extensively below. It looks like you were'nt satisfied and want to argue some more - and from what it sounds like from others this has just bored all of us to sleep. I thought the political board was for political discussions, not pregnancy lessons or religious beliefs about when a fetus actually becomes a human being.<br /> <br /> Move on...too many other topics to discuss. BTW, no need to shout at us with your headline. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Well, on the subject of sex education..." href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Well-on-the-subject-of-sex-education--22628.html">Well, on the subject of sex education...</a><br /> I doubt Bristol thought what she engaged in could not cause pregnancy. I feel sure she knows what makes babies.<br /> <br /> Now I am sure that out here in real america there are many thousands of families who have had a pregnancy like this in their families or know of one in close acquaintances. I don't think this argument is going to hold any water with them and I think they would be insulted by this.<br /> <br /> Your Candidate knows that, that is why he just wishes that all his supporters who think they are helping him would just stop. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Your subject is JM's temper....sam's is" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Your-subject-is-JM-39s-temper-sam-39s-is-23006.html">Your subject is JM's temper....sam's is</a><br /> media bias, which is rampant, 100 to 1, if not more on the side of democrats. It's a fact. Period. No amount of spinning off subject can change that. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="NP. This is most definitely a touchy subject" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-NP-This-is-most-definitely-a-touchy-subject-24857.html">NP. This is most definitely a touchy subject</a><br /> You got the right idea. Wish I had that kind of self control to just say no. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Yes, let's change the subject, shall we? NOT" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Yes-let-39s-change-the-subject-shall-we-NOT-25308.html">Yes, let's change the subject, shall we? NOT</a><br /> <P>nm</P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Not going to broach the subject with you nm" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Not-going-to-broach-the-subject-with-you-nm-27527.html">Not going to broach the subject with you nm</a><br /> x <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="the subject is deregulation" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-the-subject-is-deregulation-27759.html">the subject is deregulation</a><br /> <P>of insurance companies which would result in collapse of the industry. Can you image the results of that?  Do you think it might affect your teeny tiny job in any way?</P><br /> <P> </P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="the subject is mccain's " href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-the-subject-is-mccain-39s--27992.html">the subject is mccain's </a><br /> suitability for president not your sick interest in Bill Clintons <a class=word href=http://www.mtstars.com/medical_transcription/sex/>sex</a> life.  Contemplate it as much as you want to; the issue today is McCain vs Obama. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="We are getting off the subject here...your point was..." href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-We-are-getting-off-the-subject-here-your-point-was--29788.html">We are getting off the subject here...your point was...</a><br /> why should anyone be afraid of him because he is just one man and he would have to get past Congress. My point was...they will have the majority. THere is no getting past then...clear sailing. Whatever agenda he wants...goes through. THAT was my point. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="what does dancing have to do with the subject?" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-what-does-dancing-have-to-do-with-the-subject--29918.html">what does dancing have to do with the subject?</a><br /> nm <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Try reading up on a subject " href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Try-reading-up-on-a-subject--37606.html">Try reading up on a subject </a><br /> See post under sam's blather. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="This is just a very emotional subject" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-This-is-just-a-very-emotional-subject-40263.html">This is just a very emotional subject</a><br /> It definitely isn't for the weak at heart. ;)<br /> <br /> Don't take anything on here personally. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="The least you could do is stick to the subject...(sm)" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-The-least-you-could-do-is-stick-to-the-subject-sm--41755.html">The least you could do is stick to the subject...(sm)</a><br /> As far as how I could vote for Obama after 911.  Well, probably because he won't go running all over the middle east starting illegal wars in the name of fighting his "the axis of evil."  My guess is once he straightens out Bush's mess, which is a job all by itself, he'll do what this country needs him to do -- restore credibility. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Change the subject? LOL" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Change-the-subject-LOL-44655.html">Change the subject? LOL</a><br /> I thought we were talking about ILLEGAL.  Isn't that what you've been ranting about....Obama not being a "legal" citizen?  So how is asking about ILLEGAL parents natural born citizens changing the subject?  I don't notice any explanation as to where in the Constitution it says ILLEGAL parents can give birth to legal citizenship to their children.  I do believe that the Constitution just might be referring to kids born to LEGAL immigrants being automatic citizens. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Not changing the subject. " href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Not-changing-the-subject--44907.html">Not changing the subject. </a><br /> http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/13/poll-obama-facing-high-expectations/<br /> Poll: Obama facing high expectations. Refer to the "overall approval rating" paragraph toward end of article. <br /> <br /> http://www.gallup.com/video/111904/Most-Expect-Obama-Make-Effort-Republicans.aspx<br /> Most Expect Obama to Make Effort With Republicans<br /> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="obviously no one wants to talk to you on this subject." href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-obviously-no-one-wants-to-talk-to-you-on-this-subject--46595.html">obviously no one wants to talk to you on this subject.</a><br /> There's no law against it <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Yet again changing the subject...(sm)" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Yet-again-changing-the-subject-sm--47404.html">Yet again changing the subject...(sm)</a><br /> <P>My original post merely pointed out that Olberman had a good question (which has yet to be recognized on this board).  Just as a refresher, the question was, why is Coulter trying to get on NBC to promote her book (in which she talks badly about NBC) when she has such a low opinion of the network.  This is not a battle of the networks, just a simple observation that anyone with half a brain can see.</P><br /> <P>I guess it's easier to change the subject than to actually answer a question or post an opinion on the subject matter. <IMG src=http://forum.mtstars.com/smileys/sowhat.gif></P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Yet again changing the subject...(sm)" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Yet-again-changing-the-subject-sm--47405.html">Yet again changing the subject...(sm)</a><br /> <P>My original post merely pointed out that Olberman had a good question (which has yet to be recognized on this board).  Just as a refresher, the question was, why is Coulter trying to get on NBC to promote her book (in which she talks badly about NBC) when she has such a low opinion of the network.  This is not a battle of the networks, just a simple observation that anyone with half a brain can see.</P><br /> <P>I guess it's easier to change the subject than to actually answer a question or post an opinion on the subject matter. <IMG src=http://forum.mtstars.com/smileys/sowhat.gif></P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Change the subject? You are the one" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Change-the-subject-You-are-the-one-47473.html">Change the subject? You are the one</a><br /> can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If no one believes this, who are all those people interviewed that voted for O and cannot tell you why? They all had a fairy tale image of him. That, my dear, is much more documentably effective than your stereotyped opinions. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="What's wrong...don't like this subject? LOL...nm" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-What-39s-wrong-don-39t-like-this-subject-LOL-nm-62466.html">What's wrong...don't like this subject? LOL...nm</a><br /> x <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Read the posts below about the subject" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Read-the-posts-below-about-the-subject-2381.html">Read the posts below about the subject</a><br /> <P>President Bush has thrown more money at poverty than Clinton, and I do not dispute the fact that Clinton went a long way in reducing poverty.  Workfare is one of the best programs to come along in a long time, and one thing Clinton did right, however, it needs to be to be expanded.</P><br /> <P>Poverty is not solely a lack of financial means for many people (not everyone), but poverty in this country seems to stem from moral poverty in many cases.</P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="Wasn't trying to change the subject" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-Wasn-39t-trying-to-change-the-subject-6617.html">Wasn't trying to change the subject</a><br /> <P>I personally, don't think that Coulter is a bottom-feeder.  She directs her barbed remarks towards adults who should be able to take it and not innocent children.  However, I believe Al Franken and Michael Moore, and most of the folks at Daily KOS and The DU are just as vicious.  You all love Molly Ivins here, and she's just as rough around the edges as Coulter too. However, I defend their rights to free speech just as much as I do Coulter, Limbaugh, and O'Reilly etc.  The left's problems with the latter three (and more) is the fact they tend to pull the highest ratings.  It makes them litigatory and ready to censor.  The left wants to stack the deck in their favor.</P> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="The subject in this post is bashing...nm" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-The-subject-in-this-post-is-bashing-nm-8606.html">The subject in this post is bashing...nm</a><br /> <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="My take on the subject, the short version." href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-My-take-on-the-subject-the-short-version--18745.html">My take on the subject, the short version.</a><br /> Every country has some form of socialized medicine. Ours is comprised of the poor, the elderly, and those giving service to our country (military and political of which number in the millions) both past and present that encompasses their family members as well through different benefit packages depending on where they fall within the system. I believe the major argument is about extending those benefits in a social manner outside of what is already in place. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="oops - my subject line got cut off" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-oops-my-subject-line-got-cut-off-23338.html">oops - my subject line got cut off</a><br /> I just like that she is "up" on energy policies - not sure if that's coming out right, but i've been reading good things about that. <hr width=100%> <a class="ntl" title="I wasn't trying to change the subject" href="https://www.mtstars.com/politics-I-wasn-39t-trying-to-change-the-subject-23804.html">I wasn't trying to change the subject</a><br /> just stating something that I thought I had observed. I'm sorry for being so stupid and uninformed and I will go crawl back in my hole now. Good luck to you, Sam. My heart can't handle being talked to this way, especially when I didn't respond in a manner deserving of such a tone. <hr width=100%> </td> </tr> <tr> <td><img src="https://www.mtstars.com/images/bottom-left.jpg" width="6" height="6" /></td> <td background="https://www.mtstars.com/images/bottom-center.jpg"></td> <td><img src="https://www.mtstars.com/images/bottom-right.jpg" width="6" height="6" /></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> </table> <table width="1000" border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="margin-bottom:30px;"> <tr> <td width="6"><img src="https://www.mtstars.com/images/footer1.jpg" width="6" height="45" /></td> <td align="center" background="https://www.mtstars.com/images/footer2.jpg" class="footer"> © Copyright 2001-09 <strong>MTStars.com</strong> All Rights Reserved </td> <td width="7" align="right"><img src="https://www.mtstars.com/images/footer3.jpg" width="7" height="45" /></td> </tr> </table> </body> </html>