Run another guilt by association smear campaign
Posted By: with the SP/JTP 2012 dream team and....sm on 2008-12-10
In Reply to: Why do any of you think Obama and his Chicago - thugs have ANY credibility? No "change" ther
watch that landslide turn into a monster avalanche. Some people never learn.
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I would believe the guilt by association only...
if his policies did not scream Marxist...straight out of black liberation theology. I can see what he hopes for and the change he wants. I don't want a Marxist socialist government. Perhaps you do.
Guilt by association
"…associations with terrorists, criminals, and racist individuals to me is more telling because these are associations and issues that could raise concern during a presidency.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/30572149.html
Racists / terrorists: Republican Sen. John McCain served on the advisory board to the U.S. chapter of an international group linked to ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America in the 1980s. McCain sat on the board of the U.S. Council for World Freedom. During his tenure (1981 to 1986), the Anti-Defamation League said this organization and its parent organization, the WACL (World Anti-Communist League) "has increasingly become a gathering place, a forum, a point of contact for extremists, racists and anti-Semites." The WACL had ties to ultra-right figures and Latin American death squads. Roger Pearson, the chairman of the WACL, was expelled from the group in 1980 under allegations that he was a member of a neo-Nazi organization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Keating
Criminal ties:
1. Charles Keating. Keating was criminally charged with having duped Lincoln's customers into buying worthless junk bonds of American Continental Corporation; he was convicted in state court in 1992 of fraud, racketeering, and conspiracy and received a 10-year prison sentence. In January 1993, a federal conviction followed, with a 12-and-a-half year sentence. He spent four-and-a-half years in prison, but convictions were eventually overturned. Thereafter, on the eve of the retrial on the federal charges, Keating pleaded guilty to several felony charges in return for a sentence of time served.
2. McCain appeared at a Oregon Citizens Alliance gathering after Marilyn Shannon had praised Shelley Shannon as a "fine lady." Shannon is an anti-abortion activist, saboteur, rhetorician and sharpshooter from Grants Pass, Oregon. She assaulted Dr. George Tiller outside his abortion clinic in Wichita, Kansas on August 19, 1993, shooting him in both arms. She is serving time in FCI Dublin. Her projected release date is November 7, 2018.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_connections_coming_back_to_haunt_1007.html
3. Gordon Liddy, the Watergate break-in mastermind, who spent more than four years in prison for his crimes, has called McCain an "old friend" and hosted the candidate on his conservative talk radio show.
Guilt by association. Really wanna go there?
Just off the top of my head:
1. US Council for World Freedom who got a 20-year sentence for his conviction of conspiracy, burglary and illegal wiretapping in the Watergate fiasco. m (can you say Iran contra?).
2. Phil Gramm, (co-chair of the McCain campaign), champion of Enron tax loopholes and author of Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act that effectively neutralized any existing regulation of financial services industry. You remember good ole Phil. He's the one talking on McCain's behalf when he said we were having a "mental recession" and we have a nation of a bunch of whiners.
3. Gordon Liddy. That's the guy
4. Let's don't forget the Keating 5.
5. Richard Quinn, publisher of Southern Heritage ragazine for neo-confederates…unapologetic bigotry.
6. Rick Davis, McCain CEO, lobbyist, paid $15,000 each month for "consulting" from end of 2005 until September 2008.
With a little research, I'm sure I could come up with a few more. Wanna go there some more?
Guilt by association? You are kidding, right?
20 years in the church, man was his mentor, baptized his children...that is an "association?"
Excuse me...my compadre? Are you now saying I am guilty of wanting to leave my country because another poster posted on this board THEY might leave?
Good grief, rip a page out of your own book. If he sat there for 20 years and was truly AGAINST racism, then he is a hypocrit at the very LEAST.
It's that guilt-by-association thingy
O haters have been harping away on that matra for months and months and months and more months while trying without success to make all their endless "connections". What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Another resounding theme from them has been "judgment" about the company one keeps. SP has condoned her own daughter's marriage into a crack/meth (or whatever drug) house. What is with the pubs' adversion to vetting anyway? It's going to be a bit difficult to pull off that one-big-happy-family image politicians like to project.
Don't be such a hypocrite. The glee O haters take in salivating over imagined scandals is positively palpable. I'm not that excited, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not highly amused.
I think the guilt by association thing....(sm)
is ridiculous -- from both sides. That being said, I find it hard to believe that Sarah has never even met the mother of her future son-in-law.
Guilt by association tactic is tired, did nothing
In a democracy, even communists are allow to have their own perceptions. It is good news that Sam will be putting time-consuming research into overdrive. Poor pubs. Plain to see they are spinning themselves into the ground. Spin, baby, spin. Nothing you can say will change the fact that the DNC was a phenomenal success and the RNC is a dud so far, plagued by disappearing speakers, scandal and damage control.
It's not a smear campaign and it's not a failure
The reality of what Mrs. or should I say Ms., Sheehan is doing speaks for itself. The Swift Boat thing surely didn't get your boy Kerry in the office now did it?
As totally unbiased as the smear campaign on the CON board....?
And before casting aspersions on others?
Obama's campaign called McCain's campaign.
This was reported an hour or two before McCain had his little news conference. Shouldn't take to heart too much of what McCain says as he is a known liar.
No smear here
No, I am not trying to smear. I do actually believe that conservatives are quick to declare war and this so bloody disgusting fiasco with Iraq proves my belief. The powers that be in DC have been salivating for at least since Bush Sr about invading and taking over and building a military base/presence in Iraq. These were and are very prominent conservatives, Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld among them. I do believe conservatives think we can and have the right to invade and take over wherever we please, especially if it pertains to oil. There is a saying. The soldiers go to war republicans but come back democrats and that about sums it up. If this administration had been in the military, they would not have been so quick to choose war over diplomacy and, yes, I do also fault the democrats who so quickly chose this war. I shake my head every time I see on TV a soldier being memorialized at his/her funeral. For goodness sake, I would rather have them home, alive, then dead and memorializing their funeral.
Smear tactics?
Obama was asked this question, one of a few journalist with some integrity, as to why he allowed these women to be removed? After all, he knew it but didn't stop it. He stumbled and fumbled and fumbled and stuttered for words because he is so used to having no one ask him the hard questions, he didn't know what he should say because anything at that point would have been back peddling and he knew it.
Obama out of his own mouth, not made up stuff like you want to believe, said he had gotten himself a little 'ole Muslim liason to help smooth things over, because the last people he wants to offend are the Muslims, Heaven forbid he offends the Muslims. The heck with offending the taxpayer by insinuating they are too dumb to handle their own lives, so he'll handle it for ya by providing all your needs.
If everyone was guilty by association . . .
how many of us would be guilty? There are and have been plenty of Senators and congresssmen who have (or still do) links to the KKK -- if we knew the actual truth, we would be shocked. The point is, I don't have enough information to be able to make a judgment about Obama's choice of church? We all have at one time or another had a friend or loved one whose lifestyle or morals maybe we did not necessarily agree with, but maybe we knew another side of them that overshadowed the bad side. I don't respect or necessarily like my mother because she is a racist, but I still love her for doing the best she knew how.
If one is guilty by association, then let
any one of you who profess your own guiltlessness please step forward. I just wish you people would find something more constructive to do than continuously harp on a moot point. You're welcome to join your compadre who posted earlier about moving to Australia -- but then, I doubt you would have the funds to do that, since they require major $$ to be deposited into their banks in order to get a green card. And then you would find that they really do not care for Americans very much, and then YOU would be the one discriminated against. I would call that poetic justice.
Smear = Fear
xx
Another lie. Another SMEAR=FEAR.
Please stop spreading lies.
This board is the epitome of smear
and you dare make that statement...arrogance rules this board.
desperate smear tactics. nm
.
Recycled smear, some of it 2 years old.
It's not working now. We will be impatiently waiting for McCain to turn the page back to the economy and start acting like a serious presidential contender.
PS. What's all the shouting about anyway? this is old, old, old news.
So you are mumping now from the messiah smear
There is nothing in your characterization of Obama's position on small business that remotely resembles and accurate statement. Not only can you not hear, you obviously can't read either.
Obama and Biden have posted an extremely detailed plan in the Blueprint for Change that describes very creative and innovative ways in which small businesses will be supported and encouraged. The tax cuts and who will benefits can also be found there. I see noting in McCain's plan that compares.
Looks like O is getting ready to turn that ACORN smear
Asking DOJ for special prosecutor to investigate Bush-McCain vote fraud scheme. Now, this story is going to start growing some real teeth. 2000. 2004. 2008....NOT.
"Guilt by association" is a logical fallacy.
Unless, of course, you're quite prepared to admit that Obama is a domestic terrorist. (Need the associations to support that?)
Please understand. I don't blame you. I blame the public school systems that no longer teach students logical skills.
You can try to guilt.....
the posters on this board but I doubt you will be effective. Jonestown wasn't the only ones who drank 'the Kool-Aid." So did Heaven's Gate. So, it is now a mainstream term and no disrespect is intended to the victims and willing who met this fate. I refuse to be manipulated by others who try to censor my right to free speech.
Then if Obama is not guilty by association, I guess McCain definitely isn't either sm
Racism goes both ways and you know that!
Not sure about the admitting guilt....
Clinton did not require a pardon because he never went to trial It never went to and wasn't convicted of anything, though we all know he did it. It wasn't pursued after he left office. That should go to show that Republicans do not thirst for revenge, as they are the ones who would have to have done it, liberals obviously would not. That being said...not sure. I never heard that Marc Rich or any of the ones Clinton did the *Hail Mary* pardons for admitted guilt. Perhaps they did; perhaps they didn't. I just don't see how liberals could complain if Libby was pardoned if the Republicans didn't go after Bill after he left office, and they could have. I always wondered why Monica never filed a civil suit. I am thinking either she was afraid for her life or banked a ton of Clinton money. But, that is merely conjecture on my part.
Pardons can be handed out for other reasons too I believe...I don't think the border patrol officers would have to admit guilt because they feel they were wrongly convicted. It could go that way for Libby too...who knows. I can see there are issues...no one went after Judith Miller for conveniently not remembering all her conversations. It is just a mess...
But the point is...Libby didn't leak anything. It was Armitage. And who pulls his strings? We might REALLY be surprised about that one. I would venture that it is not even on the Republican side, but came from the OTHER side to set up some of the administration. Would not be the first time and I certainly would not put it past some of Armitage's old liberal buds with a lot of moveon.org money behind it. How's that for a conspiracy theory this fine evening?
So again we agree to disagree...and...lol...I am NOT even going to go there on the ACLU tonight. Too tired...lol.
Have a good night, Lurker!
Pardons....admission of guilt...
According to this that I found, they are saying that if you *accept* a pardon, that is an implicit admission of guilt. A person does not have to say formally *yes, I am guilty.*
In the United States, the pardon power for Federal crimes is granted to the President by the United States Constitution, Article II, Section 2, which states that the President:
shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.
All federal pardon petitions are addressed to the President who grants or denies the request. Typically, applications for pardons are referred for review and non-binding recommendation by the Office of the Pardon Attorney, an official of the Department of Justice. Since 1977, presidents have received about 600 pardon or clemency petitions a year and have granted around ten percent of these, although the percentage of pardons and reprieves granted varies from administration to administration (fewer pardons have been granted since World War II than historically had been the case).
The presidential power of pardons and commutations was controversial from the outset; many Anti-Federalists remembered examples of royal abuses of the pardon power in Europe, and warned that the same would happen in the new republic. However, Alexander Hamilton makes a strong defense of the pardon power in The Federalist Papers, particularly in Federalist 74. It is worthy of note that Hamilton called for something like an elective monarch at the Constitutional Convention. President George Washington granted the first high-profile Federal pardon to leaders of the Whiskey Rebellion.
Many pardons have been controversial; critics argue that pardons have been used more often for the sake of political expediency than to correct judicial error. One of the more famous, recent pardons was granted by President Gerald Ford to former President Richard Nixon on September 8, 1974, for official misconduct which gave rise to the Watergate scandal. Polls showed a majority of Americans disapproved of the pardon and Ford's public-approval ratings tumbled afterward. He was then narrowly defeated in the presidential campaign, two years later. Other controversial uses of the pardon power include Andrew Johnson's sweeping pardons of thousands of former Confederate officials and military personnel after the American Civil War, Jimmy Carter's grant of amnesty to Vietnam-era draft evaders, George H. W. Bush's pardons of 75 people, including six Reagan administration officials accused and/or convicted in connection with the Iran-Contra affair, and Bill Clinton's pardons of convicted FALN terrorists and 140 people on his last day in office - including billionaire fugitive Marc Rich.
A presidential pardon may be granted at any time after commission of the offense; the pardoned person need not have been convicted or even formally charged with a crime. Clemency may also be granted without the filing of a formal request and even if the intended recipient has no desire to be pardoned. In the overwhelming majority of cases, however, the Pardon Attorney will consider only petitions from persons who have completed their sentences and, in addition, have demonstrated their ability to lead a responsible and productive life for a significant period after conviction or release from confinement.[1]
It appears that a pardon can be rejected, and must be affirmatively accepted to be officialy recognized by the courts. Acceptance also carries with it an admission of guilt. Burdick v. United States, 236 U.S. 79 (1915). However, the federal courts have yet to make it clear how this logic applies to persons who are deceased (such as Henry Flipper - who was pardoned by Bill Clinton), those who are relieved from penalties as a result of general amnesties and those whose punishments are relieved via a commutation of sentence (which cannot be rejected in any sense of the language - See Chapman v. Scott (C. C. A.) 10 F.(2d) 690).
The pardon power of the President extends only to offenses cognizable under U.S. Federal law. However, the governors of most states have the power to grant pardons or reprieves for offenses under state criminal law. In other states, that power is committed to an appointed agency or board, or to a board and the governor in some hybrid arrangement.
White guilt is right. Too many people...
feel they HAVE to say they would vote for Obama for fear of being called racist. If that's the only way he gets into the White House then it's not a true win. He certainly isn't going to get in based on his stellar political career or experience. Flowery words, promises that can't be kept, keep the poor people poor and dependent on the government, screw the middle class and help out your fat cat friends.
White guilt is "pitiful?" Help me out here.
this statement to be just the teensey-weensiest bit tinged with that racism the reds doth vigorously protest is absent in their campaign rhetoric? Am I the only one left in America that finds this deeply offensive? Flame away if you must. I can take it.
NEITHER SIDE is 100% free of guilt, 'kay?
White guilt drove the election...
plain and simple. Drones didn't want to be called racist for not voting for him so they jumped on the wagon. Too bad it is going to careen off the cliff with them.
Guilt doesn't eliminate rights
There are privileges that can be taken away after being convicted in a court of law, but in our American system of justice, he still maintains his legal rights. Whether we believe we should save the state a lot of money and fry him right now does not really matter. Our American justice system, which is one of the things we tout as making us superior to middle east justice, means that he is entitled to a free trial, where his lawyer will undoubtedly make an insanity defense. In any case, the murderer opening his mouth prejudices his own case, and apparently the prosecuting team wants to make sure this guy does not walk on a technicality.
He is still around, only with a new campaign. sm
See campaignforliberty.com. We have more than 100,000 members now and growing.
Even if they cannot vote for him, they should at least listen to what he has to say about the Fed and the economy, and people need to get involved. He is an economics genius. McCain did not even know what the PPT was when Dr. Paul asked him a question about it during one of the debates.
America has gone so far off track from what it is supposed to be and people are so uninformed, I honestly think they did not understand what he was trying to say. They labeled us as a fringe element for wanting to restore the Constitution. How pathetic is that? He was the thinking person's candidate.
Campaign
During my search for the Obama "messiah" discussion, I am just appalled at the nastiness of this campaign. As an INDEPENDENT, voting for Mr. Independent, my unbiased opinion is that the Republicans are running a nasty campaign based on half-truths and no truths. Just look at the nastiness on this board if anyone DARES speak a favorable word about Obama.
My intention this minute is to do a write-in vote for Lou Dobbs. Should it look as if McCain is going to win, I WILL switch and vote AGAINST John McCain and if that means a vote for Obama, well, so be it. I have already stated my objections to Obama and got myself in a peck of trouble for doing it!
This campaign
You know, I have never been so concerned about our election or our country in all my life. This really weighs heavy on me and I so hate seeing people on this board and others as well as people I come in contact every day so biased one way or the other they won't even begin to listen to any questions about their candidate. There are plenty of things about both candidates that really concern me. One thing that has been overlooked is that Congress plays a big part in what a president can and cannot do, although both the Republican led Congress and the present Democrat led Congress are failing the American people. It is my feeling they should have put the brakes on George W. Bush on many different occasions but instead they have given him free reign.
I agree with Lou Dobbs almost 100%. I agree that I'm for LEGAL immigration but ILLEGAL is quite another thing. Our wages are going down and our cost of living is going up, in large part due to the influx of illegals overloading our schools, our ERs and other public services. This is particularly true here in my part of the country where there are big businesses that demand the low-wage workers and our senator and representative vote against the will of the majority of citizens because the big biz is who owns them. I wonder if Lou Dobbs were elected president, what kind of president would he be. I was hoping he would run. At least we have a news commentator who tells it as it is on both sides.
It really concerns me that posters on this board are so busy fighting over the candidate they can't even discuss the issues. I always thought MTs were of above average intelligence but reading some of the posts here, I'm starting to rethink that thought. I've been out and around all day and came home looking forward to seeing what was new and danged if the fighting, backbiting and nastiness here isn't worse than it was this morning.
Do you really want to get into campaign fraud?
You really don't want to, because the left has a corner on that market One example is the DNC registering dead people in Detroit. You know, we could tit for tat all day long about these things, but the conspiracy that elections are fixed is just that, a conspiracy.
Your energies would best be served by trying to help the the schizophrenic Democratic party finding a unified vision and an action plan other than dissing the Republicans. It's not our fault you're losing it's yours. The article you posted proves that energies are being wasted on the wrong things. But really, I don't care if you lose just so you do.
I know his campaign is in big trouble.
Seems to me he thought he found something and before confirming it, he started appearing on talk shows. At the most, he knowingly lied and wanted to tell his base what they wanted to hear.
At the least, he's reckless and sloppy in his approach to things.
I suppose the true test of his character will be if he comes clean and admits he was wrong.
Other than that, I find it increasingly difficult on a daily basis to understand why some of these politicians do what they do, both Republican and Democrat alike.
sorry...I was repeating what his campaign was saying...
only of course they said African American, not black. Yes, I am fully aware he is biracial. But he himself identified himself as "black." Remember the "oh by the way he happens to be black" comment. He does not view himself as biracial. And whether or not he is black or biracial or white does not matter to me. Your opinion and mine differ. I do not think he is capable. There is a difference in running the country and showing up and voting present most of the time. I am not bashing him. It is just a fact...he has absolutely no foreign policy experience, and while Biden does, is he going to take Biden with him when he meets leaders of other countries? It IS a legitimate concern. Forget it is Obama. Think of him as Joe Blow from Kokimo. He doesn't have the experience, and being a great orator in prepared speeches will not get him far in the foreign policy area. And in the state this world is in now...we need someone with that experience...not in the second chair. In the FIRST chair. Just my opinion.
Wow....you should be in Barack's campaign...
you took one sentence out of what I said and spun it so hard I'm dizzy. LOL. How you got that I made an assumption that noncaucasian nonchristian people are incapable of thinking for themselves. You are the one who suggested that anyone who hates does so by choice because they won't think for themselves...?
Obama campaign
Obama opened a campaign headquarters in our town and one of the first things they did was to put a large poster in the window stating "Felons CAN vote." After an uproar, the sign was taken down, but it left a bad taste in a lot of mouths.
Campaign was already dead. That's why
nm
New campaign slogan: It's all about the O
nm
Different if it comes from a supporter or the campaign....
neither McCain or Obama can control what supporters do...but this ad was from the Obama campaign. And it flies in the face of everything Obama said he was NOT going to do.
Not as much as putting out an ad from your campaign...
with stamp of approval on it. That says more, in my opinion.
As far as Jewish people...Sarah Palin is going to the protest but on by Jewish leaders protesting Ahmadinejad addressing the UN...so McCain's campaign is supporting Jewish people there in a very public way. That also says a lot.
Coz that is illegal under campaign
finance law. Maybe McCain can allow homeless to stay in one of his 11 homes when he and Cindy are out flying in their personal jet?
He's not divisive, like you and your campaign
00000000000
How seriously should Americans take a campaign
Barack Obama was born in the United States and he is going to be your next president. Get over yourself.
NEGATIVE CAMPAIGN ADS
Obama has had 61% of his ads negative throughout his ENTIRE campaign........... McCain only for one week.
Obama spent 47 million on negative ads.....McCain 27 million.
Yea, poor 'ole Obama....... just keeping believing in this guy. He'll sell you to the middle east and you'll be feeding their camels.
It was a campaign mistake for her to go on
She wasn't funny. They made fun of her. I thought it was humiliating for her.
Maybe it's the way he and his campaign exploit POW
Besides that, GP is not the only one who takes issue with the POW experience. Ross Perot has a thing or two to say about McC, having footed the medical bills for Carol after her accident and watching McC trade her in on a new model when he returned, then turn around and apologizes on account of running for office. His own behavior goes a long way to cheapen the sacrifices he made.
More like a plant from the O campaign
What a better way to get a "racial thing" going. All the racial stuff is coming from the O side. McCain and Palin don't go there, but O sure knows how to use the race card.
Did you ever think it could be campaign fatigue on the
parts of both Palin and McCain. If that's a plausible excuse for Obama's "mistake," then why not the other mistakes, too.
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