Ooops - my big mistake, sorry sam I replied in the wrong area

• I used to be pro-Obama, but so much keeps coming out (sm) - NCMT
  • Frenula, Henula, Medusa...why am I wasting my time with you? sm - NCMT
    • et tu fruiti - menula
      • real mature - me
        • ouch. pulsate. - you
      • Divert attention from the facts - look at the beautiful exterior of the car (sm) - Used car salesman Lesson #1
        • I say thanks but no thanks - menula
          • Wow - you really got me that time. (not really sure WTH your post means but anyway) (sm) - NCMT
            • have a good evening. hiccup. - menula
              • Oh good, you were drunk... nm - Phew! Thought you were serious for a minute there!
  • Here Macula, Correct link - thanks to poster below - NCMT
  • Scare tactics!! Ohhh, be afraid, be very - holycrap
    • It's not McPalin, . . . - Freudian Slip
    • I think the point was - sm
      • oh my goodness! - denulae
        • Your arrogance just wreaks radical leftwing politics - sm
          • Actually, the founders of this country - holycrap
            • KEY WORD: LEFTWING. - sm
            • This country was founded by Christians... - sam
              • The Founding Fathers were not Christians and the country was not founded on Christianity - Kaydie
                • 49 out of 55 were CHRISTIAN - see inside
                • Please see inside Kaydie.... - sam
                  • Good research sam - but a lot to read right now so gotta read it later - me
                    • I'm the same person - me/Kaydie
                  • you have way too much free time nm - Still working
                    • lol. nm - sam
                  • This, UNDOUBTEDLY is the - sm
                    • Thanks - I've got more research to do - Kaydie
                      • Ooops - my big mistake, sorry sam I replied in the wrong area - meant to reply to Holycrap below.
                • Best post of the thread, Kaydie. nm - holycrap
          • reeks? reaks? wreaks? - henulae
            • oooohh - that's all you got? - nm
              • the English language - that's - menula
                • would you check it for me -- - menula
                  • I thought it did excite you since you were - sm
                • Why don't you check out your own post - sm
    • What facts did you just offer to encourage me to vote your way? nm - NCMT
      • Absolutely none! It's not my job to - holycrap
      • fear is an emotional response - frenula
        • Yeah, and a large number of those new voters are - dee
          • Dream on........zzzzzzzzzz nm. - mystery man
          • obama ahead by 15 points - frenula
            • Your making statements you can't back up. - dee
            • On which poll? They all vary. (sm) - Independent voter
              • Here you are: - Independent Voter
                • NY Safe Demo State - Long time MT
                  • unless you are talking thousands of friends, - menula
              • I was just riffing on the - genula
        • Fear - NCMT
          • what "we" want is hardly the - frenula
            • Republican control - Long time MT
              • talking point #1 - menula
                • Hey Menula, #1.....Too funny! and LMAO!!! #1. nm - mystery man
            • So you just cling to one word in my post "scared" sm - NCMT
              • really, as I have said twice before - frenula
                • Please remember the Bradley effect... - notvotingthisyear
                  • I caught the nasty racist - menula
                    • The Bradley effect is a fact,,, - notvotingthisyear
                      • I know what - menula
                      • She can't help it, it's all she's got nm - NCMT
                    • Well just for the record, my vote has nothing to do with race. sm - NCMT
                      • I think it does but I do have faith there are - sm
                  • I'm voting... - AAF...sm
  • wrong link, very strange (sm) - NCMT
    • Correct link inside - sm
      • Thank you! I reposted it above nm - NCMT

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Great to see you again!

God forbid I step away from my computer to take my son swimming and didn't answer your post before I did so. 

I am not a republican.  I used to be until the past administration and now I've pretty much said to heck with both parties.  If you wish to talk to terrorists and if that is what Obama wants to do....more power to you.  I will say a little prayer that your head stays attacked to your body when you go to talk to the very people who HATE us.  This isn't fearmongering....that is fact...plain and simple and YOU are so busy spewing democratic ideology that I'm about to vomit over here. 

And for the last friggin time.....TERRORISTS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER THE GENEVA CONVENTION!!!!!  Regardless of whether we captured them and held them forever, whether we tortured them, or whether we just said to he!! with it and shot them dead......they would still hate us.  Us being all sweet and nice is making them think nothing more than we are a bunch of friggin pu$$ies and why should they worry about being captured because their pal Obama will take care of them.  Give me a break.  The next time you jump down someone's throat and give them he!! because you think they are spewing republican values.......why don't you look in a mirror and see that all you do is regurgitate the BS that MSNBC and mainstream media dish out.  Oh....but don't watch Fox even though the ratings are way better than anything you watch because they obviously don't know what they are talking about even though more people seem to be relating themselves to that network than any other. 

So go on with your democratic rhetoric about how Bush is to blame and Obama will not only save our country but the world and we will all be peaceful and harmonious with one another and skip around and giggling....oh happy day....yippee.......(PUKE)

See link.

I got it mixed up with the EMS tax of $250. It's called Per Capita Tax (right to breathe) . The PCT s only $5.50. Then we have occupational priviledge (right to work) tax of $10, local income tax 1% of gross income, school tax (and doesn't matter if you don't have school kids) $1500, county tax $400. Then there is the business priviledge tax if you operate business $10. On top of that is the state and federal income tax.

All taxes are due April 15th except the county and school taxes. They are paid April and October but still, it's just sickening what we pay. Now the gov. wants to raise the sales tax and make us pay it on everything we buy.

It has to stop. Oh, yeah, that's right, it will when we are dead and buried unless they put a yearly tax our final resting place. Oops. Shouldn't have said that. They might get the idea to do just that.

Was this a planned pregnancy?  Maybe, maybe not?  Who knows but the girl that obviously is having sex and not using birth control.  Hello?  Is this the year 2008?  Whewee... 

Sounds to me like this young father is stepping into quite a family!  VP as his MIL; whatta guy!!!!!  It's a shame more young fathers don't step up and marry their children's mother, but this one sure is.... 

opinion for fact.

Friday, November 25, 2005 - 12:00 AM

Permission to reprint or copy this article or photo, other than personal use, must be obtained from The Seattle Times. Call 206-464-3113 or e-mail resale@seattletimes.com with your request.

Rep. Norm Dicks voted in 2002 to back the war.

JIMI LOTT / THE SEATTLE TIMES, 2003

U.S. Rep. Norm Dicks, center, with military officers at ceremonies marking the opening of new facilities at Naval Station Bremerton in 2003.

By Alicia Mundy
Seattle Times Washington bureau

WASHINGTON — It was after 11 p.m. on Friday when Rep. Norm Dicks finally left the Capitol, fresh from the heated House debate on the Iraq war. He was demoralized and angry.

Sometime during the rancorous, seven-hour floor fight over whether to immediately withdraw U.S. troops, one Texas Republican compared those who question America's military strategy in Iraq to the hippies and peaceniks who protested the Vietnam War and did terrible things to troop morale.

The House was in a frenzy over comments by Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., who had called for the troops to leave Iraq in six months. In response, the White House initially likened Murtha, a 37-year veteran of the Marines and an officer in Vietnam, to lefty moviemaker Michael Moore.

Then a new Republican representative from Ohio, Jean Schmidt, relayed a message to the House that she said she had received from a Marine colonel in her district: Cowards cut and run; Marines never do.

During much of the debate, Dicks, a Democrat from Bremerton, huddled in the Democrats' cloakroom with Murtha, a longtime friend. Both men are known for their strong support of the military over the years. Now, they felt, that record was being questioned.

There was a lot of anger back there, Dicks said in an interview this week. It was powerful. I can't remember anything quite as traumatic as this in my history here.

Near midnight, he drove to his D.C. home, poured a drink and wondered how defense hawks like he and Murtha had gotten lumped in with peaceniks by their colleagues and the administration.

And he thought about all that had happened over the past couple of years to change his mind about the war in Iraq.

Voted to back Bush

In October 2002, Dicks voted loudly and proudly to back President Bush in a future deployment of U.S. troops to Iraq — one of two Washington state Democratic House members to do so. Adam Smith, whose district includes Fort Lewis, was the other.

Dicks thought Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and wouldn't hesitate to use them against the United States.

After visiting Iraq early in the war, Norm told me the Iraqis were going to be throwing petals at American troops, Murtha said in an interview this week.

Dicks now says it was all a mistake — his vote, the invasion, and the way the United States is waging the war.

While he disagrees with Murtha's conclusion that U.S. troops should be withdrawn within six months, Dicks said, He may well be right if this insurgency goes much further.

The insurgency has gotten worse and worse, he said. That's where Murtha's rationale is pretty strong — we're talking a lot of casualties with no success in sight. The American people obviously know that this war is a mistake.

Dicks, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, says he's particularly angry about the intelligence that supported going to war.

Without the threat of weapons of mass destruction (WMDs), he said, he would absolutely not have voted for the war.

The Bush administration has accused some members of Congress of rewriting history by claiming the president misled Americans about the reasons for going to war. Congress, the administration says, saw the same intelligence and agreed Iraq was a threat.

But Dicks says the intelligence was doctored. And he says the White House didn't plan for and deploy enough troops for the growing insurgency.

A lot of us relied on [former CIA director] George Tenet. We had many meetings with the White House and CIA, and they did not tell us there was a dispute between the CIA, Commerce or the Pentagon on the WMDs, he said.

He and Murtha tended to give the military, the CIA and the White House the benefit of the doubt, Dicks says. But he now says he and his colleagues should have pressed much harder for answers.

Norm ... has agonized

All of us have gone through a difficult period, but Norm really has agonized, Murtha said this week.

Murtha and Dicks were appointed to the House Defense Appropriations subcommittee in 1979, three years after Dicks first was elected to Congress. They rarely have disagreed, especially in their support of the military.

In October 2002, Dicks made an impassioned speech during the House debate over whether to authorize the president to send troops to Iraq without waiting for the United Nations to act.

Based on the briefings I have had, and based on the information provided by our intelligence agencies to members of Congress, I now believe there is credible evidence that Saddam Hussein has developed sophisticated chemical and biological weapons, and that he may be close to developing a nuclear weapon, Dicks said at the time.

By spring 2003, U.N. weapons inspectors said they hadn't found hard evidence of WMDs in Iraq. But Dicks remained convinced of Iraq's threat.

We're going to find things [Saddam] had not disclosed, he said shortly before the war began in March 2003. There is no doubt about that. Period. Underlined.

By June of that year, with no chemical, biological or nuclear weapons found, Dicks remained steadfast in his support for the war but called for a congressional inquiry into the intelligence agencies' work on Iraq. I think the American people deserve to know what happened and why it happened, he said at the time.

That same month, Dicks was upset when a good friend, Gen. Eric Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, was forced into retirement after telling Congress that the secretary of defense was not sending enough troops to win the peace.

Growing doubts

On July 6, 2003, Dicks awoke to read the now-famous New York Times opinion piece by former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who had been sent on a CIA mission to investigate a report that Iraq had tried to buy nuclear materials in Africa.

Wilson wrote that he had found no evidence of such Iraqi intentions and criticized Bush for making the claim in his State of the Union address two months before the invasion.

That Joe Wilson article was very troubling, Dicks said.

Dicks grew somber about Iraq. Rep. Jim McDermott, who represents Seattle and had opposed the war from the start, talked with him about it.

Norm is a lot like Jack Murtha. These are guys with a somewhat different philosophy than me, McDermott said recently. This an extremely difficult time for them because they have to reassess what they were led to believe about prewar intelligence.

The White House maintains it did nothing to mischaracterize what it knew about Iraq and its weapons.

Dicks' private concerns became more public two months ago. At a breakfast fundraiser on Capitol Hill, Dicks surprised the guests with a tough talk against the war.

The White House last Friday called Dicks to gauge his support. House GOP leaders were pushing for a vote on a resolution they hoped would put Democrats on the spot by forcing them to either endorse an immediate troop withdrawal or stay the course in Iraq.

Dicks said he told the White House that their attack on Murtha was the most outrageous comment I've ever heard.

The resolution, denounced by Democrats, ultimately was defeated 403-3.

Dicks says the Pentagon should begin a phased withdrawal and leave some troops to help maintain order and train a new Iraq army. We've got to be very concerned that Iraq comes out of this whole, he said.

But he added, We can't take forever.

Some people say it takes eight to nine years to control an insurgency, Dicks said.

I don't think the American people will give eight to nine years, and I sure as heck won't.

Alicia Mundy: 202-662-7457 or amundy@seattletimes.com

Copyright © 2005 The Seattle Times Company