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One major question for you about your post...sm

Posted By: MT and worn out on 2008-09-06
In Reply to: Strange silence now broken. - Refuting sams O bash post below. sm

Where is the $250M that O wants to put out coming from? and the $500 he plans to give away?? Oh, I know...he'll just have the Treasury print more money. You need to seriously read more than Wikipedia. Try the IRS filings for starters. If O is elected, we are in for an even more slippery slope for our government.


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Hon, I'm a political major and history major...
xx
george will a major, major

conservative with vast influence for years and years.  Can't minimize this devastating blow no matter how much you try to defect subject to joe biden.


 


we have had 4 major

catastrophes in the last 8 years due to republican/conservative ideology of little to no government.  911, katrina, iraq war, wall street collapse, etc.  We have serious issues to deal with now.  Symbols can wait for the return of the good times under democratic LEADERSHIP.


 


Yes, there will be major job losses now /NM
N/M
Not skirting the major issues

It is just that our major issues differ immensely.


1.  I did read the article, and many more besides.  I did not state implicitly that we should model our healthcare system identical to France or Canada, it was only meant to represent that healthcare reform can work, that it is needed in this country, and that for the average individual to start seriously looking at it. There are great programs out there and there is absolutely no reason why we cannot take the best of them and create a whole new better system.


2. Yes, there will be some physicians who do not like the change, just as there will be citizens who do not like the change.  However, stating that they will not be willing to take a pay cut for the greater good of their patients is very narrow minded.  I helped recruit them to work in academic medicine and the VA system and never had a shortage of as you put it "the most brilliant minds of medicine" applying for those positions when they could have very easily went into the private sector for more money.  Furthermore, stating that if there were free tuition based medical schools, that the quality of our physicians would go down is an absolutely ignorant statement to make.  I cannot begin to fathom that line of thinking.  In those countries where tuition is either free based or fully reimbursed are creating a large percentage of "the most brilliant minds of medicine". 


3.  I never stated that socialized healthcare is not fraught with problems.  Our healthcare system is fraught with just as many. You cannot argue the statistics that in those countries where there is socialized healthcare, the citizens themselves are satisfied with it.  I believe the latest statistics are 78% of French citizens are satisified.  Granted there are issues on the table now in France, but many are stating that is because there is a creeping privatisation that is to be blamed.  My relatives in Montreal have no complaints, and they are the average middle class citizens.  And there is a very small percentage who are falling through the cracks compared to much more of your fellow Americans who are falling through our cracks.


5.  Insurance companies are driving are healthcare whether you chose to believe it or not.  Right now all across the United States there are insurance representatives walking the halls, looking through your patient records, deciding on the spot whether it is feasible for you to receive certain treatment or to stay an extra day, in which your physician will have to argue to ensure that you, the patient, is receiving the best care that he/she feels you deserve.  But because the money is not coming out of your pocket, who is to care right?


6. And last but not least, to make the leap that socialized medicine will lead to socialized government is ludicrous.  All I can say is what? 


The major difference between Christians and...
radical Islam is free choice...it is your choice whether or not to accept Christ...we do not chop off heads. THAT is my way or the highway.
Not just my job, DH is the major earner. We shouldn't be.
penalized for working hard.
obama is ahead in all major

polls. Sympathy not required.


 


You will be glad they are there if we have a major attack...
like a gas attack, a major bombing, dirty bomb, etc. They are trained to handle that situation. The National Guard is not...hence what happened at Kent State. If you would prefer, lobby your congress to have your national guard trained to do this RATHER than the army. Did you ever stop and think this is yet another deterrent to any terrorists who might think about attacking us again? They have faced our military and our military put them on the run. I think it is a great idea. The army are not a bunch drooling bully wingnuts out to strip your civil liberties. They are trying to PROTECT your rights and your physical personf or that matter. They are invested in protecting this nation. they are better equipped to do that than the national guard is.
It sure does, rightly so; here is the major difference I am seeing....sm
Those of us with the temerity to criticize the Bush years and doctrine are met with blind, sickening loyalty, more total denial than a stadium full of junkies, and this is after watching the last 8 years!....Now a new man comes in, yes young, yes not as experienced as I personally wanted, but with new ideas, because all the past doctrines were so tragic and poisonous to the country, and BEFORE HE EVEN TAKES OFFICE or can even get ANYTHING off the ground, he is being criticized and maligned daily here.....heck, many people here have magic crystals balls and keep telling us to watch the doomsday that is about to happen. Now, a wise person can learn from the past, but how can you not call it blind partisanship when Pubs here just keep singing the praises of King George II and dooming the new President and his entire FUTURE legacy?
Right. Isn't his what major Bloomberg in New York was doing?
And now he is running for his 3rd term!
Is also against the Constitution.
Right. Isn't his what major Bloomberg in New York was doing?
And now he is running for his 3rd term!

It was reported on all the major news
All I have do to know what will be posted on this form is watch Fox commentators and read a few conservative websites. All some of you do is regurgitate the half-truths and out-right lies spoon fed to you by people with an agenda. Think for yourselves once in a while.
34 major scandals during bush's first term

 


 


34 Major Scandals during Bush's first term:

 


 

Again, you are skirting the major issues and the cost...
did you read all the France article? Their physicians make two-thirds less than ours...and why? Because there is no medical school tuition in France. Can you imagine what would happen to this country's quality of care if you made medical schools no tuition? Can you see Cornell Medical School, Harvard Medical School to name just two, schools who graduate the most brilliant minds in medicine...going to a no-tuition basis? How are they going to be able to train physicians with only government doled-out money to support them? The quality of physician in this country, followed rapidly by the quality of care would tank. If you come from academic medicine, ask those physicians how they feel about no tuition medical school and having their fees capped. Go ahead and ask them.

Our own socialized care is substandard. Articles every day about VA Hospitals and the deplorable conditions in many of them. Veterans having to wait weeks and months for appointments, etc. I know. I have seen the system at work. The government cannot oversee the socialized programs they have now. Medicare and Medicaid are both rife with waste and fraud. We all know this. Because the government cannot oversee them the way they should. And you want to extend this to every person in the US? Look at this reality-based. It is a fiasco in the making.

I am sure the Canadians and the UK thought it would be wonderful too. In the first months it may have been. However, things get skewed when the cost starts to catch up. That is when you end up with a population having over HALF their income taken off the top in taxes to feed the fatted calf. You will note that the article said France was considering taxing both earned and unearned income to feed THEIR calf. When that happens, ask the French how they feel about socialized medicine.

I don't know where you get that healthcare costs are driven by insurance companies. That is nuts. They don't set the fees doctors, clinics, drug companies, yada yada, charge. In fact, it was some of the organized insurance companies, like HMOs, who went to clinics, physicians, etc., to negotiate deals for their consumers...so that those clinics would accept a certain rate for their services. The clinics would agree to less than their normal fees in order to get the business of that HMO. That is the free market WORKING. The clinic I go to for my care, when I get a bill, the insurance company shows what they charged, what they paid, and in nice bold letters at the bottom it says that I am not responsible for the difference because the clinic agreed to that amount for that service, regardless of what their normal charge is.

So, yes, in a way insurance companies do drive health care...but in a good way in my case, and I am sure in other cases across this country, if people would just open their eyes and look.

What this appears to be, on the face of it, is that people just do not want to pay for their own insurance, they want to turn it into yet another entitlement...the biggest one ever. If they want to let the government control them to that extent...more power to them. These same people who want to give up their personal right to control their own health care are the same people that complain about civil liberties and wiretapping. Don't tap my phone, but go ahead and take my health care completely out of my hands as long as you pay for it I don't have to.

No thanks. I do not want to be tied to the government for my health care and I do not want them making my decisions for me. One thing leads to another and before long the government (or more specifically, the Democrats) have you tied to them for your every need. Then, my friends, they have you. You will be living in a socialist country. And if that looks good to you...look at Venezuela. Look at the disparity there between those in power and the "people." Look at Cuba. Look at what socialist Germany turned into before World War II. Please look at history, folks. Socialism always evolves into a dictatorship. Always. Because once they have you dependent upon them for your every need...all I am saying is be careful what you ask for.
I've got some major gas here - everyone stand back.
x
Where should president be while major US city drowns?
nm
She has a major superiority complex, doesn't she?
Pathetic, actually.
NO! Major corporate & CEO greed & mismanagement
Same thing happened to Mervyn's Dept. Stores... greedy big company bought them up, then ran them into the ground. They were great stores, too.

No tears shed here for the corporate shake-outs going on in many industries: Auto, financial, stock market, power, etc. I just hope they eventually grab the HEALTH CARE industry by the scruff of the neck and give it a good shaking, as well. NO PITY HERE.
I think a major issue people ignore...(sm)

is why we are a target of terrorism.  US policies towards the middle east thus far have been nothing less than selfish.  What US news doesn't tell you about is how these policies actually affect people living there, and more often than not it is devastating.  That is where it began.


Granted, regardless of how we got here, we're in the middle of it right now and actions should be taken, but not actions like those that have been taken by the Bush administration.  The prisoners at Gitmo are a prime example.  They should have tried these people to see if they even needed to be there instead of holding them with no charges and torturing them.  The ones who are guilty should have gone through the legal system and suffered the consequences whether it be death or imprisonment. 


Here's what I see.  We went into Iraq on false pretenses about WMDs.  We found that to be false, so the cause was changed to saving the people of Iraq from a dictator -- a brutal dictator at that.  We were supposed to be providing them with democracy.  So, what do you think the Iraqi people think of us now?  Have we killed as many people as Saddam did yet?  Have we tortured people just like Saddam did?  Yes.  So, in their eyes, if this is now democracy, how much better is it than what they started out with?


If we are to set the standard by which other democracies use as a guideline, we need to get it right, and that includes respecting the culture, religion and social norms of other countries instead of trying to make them into something they are not.


I think a major issue people ignore...(sm)

is why we are a target of terrorism.  US policies towards the middle east thus far have been nothing less than selfish.  What US news doesn't tell you about is how these policies actually affect people living there, and more often than not it is devastating.  That is where it began.


Granted, regardless of how we got here, we're in the middle of it right now and actions should be taken, but not actions like those that have been taken by the Bush administration.  The prisoners at Gitmo are a prime example.  They should have tried these people to see if they even needed to be there instead of holding them with no charges and torturing them.  The ones who are guilty should have gone through the legal system and suffered the consequences whether it be death or imprisonment. 


Here's what I see.  We went into Iraq on false pretenses about WMDs.  We found that to be false, so the cause was changed to saving the people of Iraq from a dictator -- a brutal dictator at that.  We were supposed to be providing them with democracy.  So, what do you think the Iraqi people think of us now?  Have we killed as many people as Saddam did yet?  Have we tortured people just like Saddam did?  Yes.  So, in their eyes, if this is now democracy, how much better is it than what they started out with?


If we are to set the standard by which other democracies use as a guideline, we need to get it right, and that includes respecting the culture, religion and social norms of other countries instead of trying to make them into something they are not.


Another note:  You are saying that terror should be met with like force.  So, should Bush be waterboarded?


FEMA needs a major overhaul...Doctor says FEMA ordered him to stop treating hurricane victims.
Doctor says FEMA ordered him to stop treating hurricane victims



In the midst of administering chest compressions to a dying woman several days after Hurricane Katrina struck, Dr. Mark N. Perlmutter was ordered to stop by a federal official because he wasn't registered with the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

I begged him to let me continue, said Perlmutter, who left his home and practice as an orthopedic surgeon in Pennsylvania to come to Louisiana and volunteer to care for hurricane victims. People were dying, and I was the only doctor on the tarmac (at the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport) where scores of nonresponsive patients lay on stretchers. Two patients died in front of me.

I showed him (the U.S. Coast Guard official in charge) my medical credentials. I had tried to get through to FEMA for 12 hours the day before and finally gave up. I asked him to let me stay until I was replaced by another doctor, but he refused. He said he was afraid of being sued. I informed him about the Good Samaritan laws and asked him if he was willing to let people die so the government wouldn't be sued, but he would not back down. I had to leave.

FEMA issued a formal response to Perlmutter's story, acknowledging that the agency does not use voluntary physicians.

We have a cadre of physicians of our own, FEMA spokesman Kim Pease said Thursday. They are the National Disaster Medical Team. ... The voluntary doctor was not a credentialed FEMA physician and, thus, was subject to law enforcement rules in a disaster area.






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A Coast Guard spokesman said he was looking into the incident but was not able to confirm it.

Perlmutter, Dr. Clark Gerhart and medical student Alison Torrens flew into Baton Rouge on a private jet loaned by a Pennsylvania businessman several days after Katrina hit. They brought medicine and supplies with them. They stayed the first night in Baton Rouge and persuaded an Army Blackhawk helicopter pilot to fly them into New Orleans the next day.

I was going to make it happen, the orthopedic surgeon said. I was at Ground Zero too, and I had to lie to get in there.

At the triage area in the New Orleans airport, Perlmutter was successful in getting FEMA to accept the insulin and morphine he had brought. The pharmacist told us they were completely out of insulin and our donation would save numerous lives. Still, I felt we were the most-valuable resource, and we were sent away.

Gerhart said the scene they confronted at the airport was one of hundreds of people lying on the ground, many soaked in their own urine and feces, some coding (dying) before our eyes. FEMA workers initially seemed glad for help and asked Gerhart to work inside the terminal and Perlmutter to work out on the tarmac. They were told only a single obstetrician had been on call at the site for the past 24 hours.

Then, the Coast Guard official informed the group that he could not credential them or guarantee tort coverage and that they should return to Baton Rouge. That shocked me, that those would be his concerns in a time of emergency, Gerhart said.

Transported back to Baton Rouge, Perlmutter's frustrated group went to state health officials who finally got them certified -- a simple process that took only a few seconds.

I found numerous other doctors in Baton Rouge waiting to be assigned and others who were sent away, and there was no shortage of need, he said.

Perlmutter spent some time at the Department of Health and Hospital's operational center at Jimmy Swaggart Ministries before moving to the makeshift Kmart Hospital doctors established at an abandoned store to care for patients. After organizing an orthopedics room and setting up ventilators there, Perlmutter went back to the Swaggart Center and then to the LSU Pete Maravich Assembly Center's field hospital to care for patients being flown in from the New Orleans area.

We saw elderly patients who had been off their medicine for days, diabetics without insulin going into shock, uncontrolled hypertension, patients with psychosis and other mental disorders, lots of diarrhea, dehydration and things you would expect. I slept on a patient cot there every night until I came home.

Gerhart said he felt the experience overall was successful and rewarding, although frustrating at times. You don't expect catastrophes to be well organized. A lot of people, both private citizens and government officials, were working very hard.

Perlmutter did not return home empty-handed. He brought a family of four evacuees back with him and is still working with Baton Rouge volunteer Hollis Barry to facilitate the relocation of additional hurricane victims to Pennsylvania.

He also returned with a sense of outrage. I have been trying to call Sen. Arlen Specter (of Pennsylvania) to let him know of our experience.

I have been going to Ecuador and Mexico (on medical missions) for 14 years. I was at ground zero. I've seen hundreds of people die. This was different because we knew the hurricane was coming. FEMA showed up late and then rejected help for the sake of organization. They put form before function, and people died.

Both FEMA and the Coast Guard operate under the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, which has been widely criticized for its disjointed, slow response to the devastation caused by Katrina. Federal officials are urging medical personnel who want to volunteer to help with disaster relief to contact the Medical Reserve Corps or the American Red Cross for registration, training and organization.


P.S. Please scroll down after reading above post. Washington Post article included.

Reprinted in Boston Globe.  Sorry!


I wrote: I second JTBB's post, 'watcher's post is misinformed crap...sm
pYou have also to read what's posted 'inside' the message.
Oops, meant to post this under the loose trolls post...
I'm going to keep ignoring these troll posts.  It's kind of fun, actually, just pretend you don't see them.
Post the direct link. I don't see the post you're referring to.
t
The post I quoted was the entire post. It was not taken out of context. sm
I imagine there are as many emotions and thoughts going on with our troops as possible and each does not feel the same as the other, which is obvious by the posts here. 
Sorry gourdpainter, my other post should have been under the wacky Pakistan post (nm)
xx
Why did you post this? Republicans have been asked NOT to post here..Bye Bye.
Why did you post this?  Happy Thanksgiving is enough but to be so happy we have a republican president?  Why did you post that?  I would like to remind you, you are on the liberal board.  Are you trying to start trouble?  If so, let me know and I will report you immediately.  No, Im not happy we have a republican president, a warmonger chickenhawk president.  Does that answer your question?  Now, go back to the republican board.  We dont want you here and actually the moderator and administrator have asked republicans not to post here..Bye..bye..
Forgot to post a link in 1st post. Sorry.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/money/tax/article1996735.ece
Please refer me to any post where I referred to either the post...
or the poster as ignorant. And I certainly never sunk to the levels you did at the top of the post, against a man who is ill in a wheelchair. Pot calling the kettle black...?
I re-read your post, and I stand by my post.
You are twisting his words by saying that he wants to make friends with terrorists. That is not what he said.
Ya gotta understand the rules. We have to post on this board only. They can post on any board they

The above post explains a lot about everything else you post!
Your revelation about being married to a career Army guy explains why your views are skewed so drastically to the far right! I thought it had to do with small-town Pennsylvania, but now I truly understand where you are coming from. Thank you for explaining that us. We will read your posts in a completely different light now that we know the truth.
If you want to post something on the subject, post

objective views. This is a one-sided publication that asks for donations to keep it going. Nothing I read in there posts anything against any democrats, just republicans. It is not a fair-minded reporting.


I like to read both sides of the aisle but this publication spews hatred for anything not democratic in order to sell books.  To those who can't see both sides, this blog, or publication as they like to state, is just up their aisle. I shake my head at one-sided news. Taken from their web site:


"Indeed, a founding idea of the Consortium for Independent Journalism was that a major investment was needed in journalistic endeavors committed to honestly informing the American people about important events, no matter what the political and economic pressures.


While we are proud of the journalistic contribution that this Web site has made over the past decade – and while we are deeply grateful to our readers whose contributions have kept us afloat – we also must admit that we have not made the case well enough that this mission is a vital one.


Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His new book, Secrecy & Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq, can be ordered at secrecyandprivilege.com. It's also available at Amazon.com, as is his 1999 book, Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth.' "


I second your post and 'watcher's post
is misinformed crap.
My post was a direct answer to the direct post...
of Democrat. It was not a blank open-ended statement. And dial it back a notch...it is certainly your right to protest anything any time you want to. Just like it is my right to protest you protesting while men and women are still in harm's way, because you are in effect aiding the enemy. Apparently the Viet Nam experience taught you nothing. Americans protesting in the streets heartened the enemy and when they were about to surrender decided not to, based a lot upon what was happening in the American streets. I believe that the protesting in that war prolonged the war and cost more American lives. Hanoi Jane should have been tried for treason. That being said...lessons were not learned and the protestors are doing the exact same thing now. Exercising the very right bought for them by shedding of American military blood. And I still say common courtesy should keep people out of the streets and off the TV until the military are home safe. But it just proves the same thing to me over and over...the selfISHhness of the protestors vs. the selfLESSness of the military. They continue to put it all on the line for your right to protest anything you want to protest...it is up to YOU to decide where and when that is appropriate, and it is up to you to take the heat for same. It is up to me and others like me (in my opinion) to apply that heat. Go ahead and do whatever your conscience or lack thereof moves you to do. But do not expect those of a different mind not to protest the protest.
Thanks for the post. I think I will look up that

article.


And thanks for pointing out all the other "results" of his administration that, as you say, benefit nobody but the rich and/or the corporations or, as he himself once publicly bragged, "his base."


I know for a fact that when he ran for President in 2000, I told every single person I knew that if he becomes President, we're going to go to war with Iraq.  (Nobody's gonna treat his daddy like Saddam did and get away with it.)


I didn't have a crystal ball.  I had common sense and a good memory from the Gulf War when his father was President and how he didn't "finish the job." Seems a lot of other Americans forgot about that.


I really enjoyed reading your post and all the facts you raised that I failed to raise in mine.  Thanks for the mention of the LA Times article.  I'm going to try to look that up on the web.


I know they don't. I said that in my post. NM
//
Actually, that post is right on. sm
You sound like a total lunatic, out of control and full of hatred.  You sound like someone who could do just what "vs" says.  You had best take a look at your behavior.  YOUR posts are the ones who should be reported.  You are one frightening person. 
Re your post

From your post:


"Did you read Mein Kampf?  Would that be good enough evidence for you, because he wrote about it in there."


Wrote about what?  That the Jews were socialists?


This is an entirely different post.
Really wasn't directed to you anyhow.
your post is just sad

I'm actually feeling sad for you right now gt.  You obviously don't know what Christianity is about.  Pat Robertson does not speak for me, and I don't endorse what he said.  I'm sorry you are so bitter and hate filled that you would wish anyone to burn in hell.  There are some evil people in this world but my first wish for them is that they find Christ and turn from their evil ways with His help.  I too hope one day you find Christ, gt, and quit letting misguided Christians and Christian leaders keep you from HIM.  Their blunders are not worth your eternal soul.


thank you for your post
What a great post, so heartfelt and I thank you for it. 
Yes I do. see my post below. nm
x
The post.

You think there is only one patriot here?  Get a trip on your sour shrivled heart and try not to speak.


Whoops! I made a mistake.  My bad.


This is the post where the NEOCON tells the LIBERAL not to speak ON HER OWN BOARD!


They can't show a post of a liberal telling Army Mom not to speak because it doesn't exist. 


Where did you get that from my post?
Really?  I did?  Where do you read that in my post?  I talk about taking care of the middle class and that the rich really dont give a darn about the middle class.  I talk about a friend who is quite smug and out of touch with real America.  No where do I mention anything about Kerry or Kennedy.
please post
I would appreciate it if you could post statements from Black Americans that they are okay with Bennetts comments.
What does that have to do with gt's post
I said if we had posted something like that we would have been castigated.  You're just proving that point.  I'm not in a pissing contest with you...really
And another *right-on* post!

I agree with every single word you said.  America is becoming a very scary place indeed.  I believe, as you do, that there are people who are eagerly awaiting the *Rapture* and indeed believe they have the *inside track* to heaven.  Unfortunately, it look as if this country might actually suffer from their self-fulfilled prophecy if it continues going backwards in time under Bush's completely inept leadership.


Please keep posting.  I really enjoy reading your posts. 


Thanks very much for your post.

It makes me feel a lot better to hear someone say they're against this.  When express outrage at my posting about the issue, instead of expressing outrage about the issue itself, it truly makes me wonder.


I honestly do not recall any threads on the conservative board about this issue.  All I recall is total silence (or attacks) when the issue is mentioned.


I also wasn't trying to imply that the crime of child molestation is more prevalent in one political party or another.  Obviously, that's irrelevant, and I have a hard time even associating a criminal like that with any political views one way or the other.


It's just that this seems to be a no-brainer, an issue on which virtually everyone can agree, yet the right seems to be eerily quiet when this topic comes up.