Okay...let's examine this...
Posted By: Observer on 2007-10-19
In Reply to: Obviously the liberal mindset is... - Observing
You said: Very few liberals "tolerate" the war in Iraq. Most of us probably find it "intolerable."
I say: Okay. Then why did the liberals in Congress vote to go into Iraq? Because they did. I guess they are not part of the "most?"
You said: Just as many of us become nauseated by the right-winger(s) posting on this board under the pretense of "I just want to understand your position better" when the actual intent is to mock and belittle.
I say: Did you read the posts? All the momcking and belitting has been done by the liberals...Bush has a low IQ (a lie), Bush is a dumba$$...come onnnn. That is mocking and belitting. What I said about Clinton is the TRUTH. He is a liar and perjured himself, therefore is a perjurer. That is objective truth.
If you will go back and look at posts you accuse me of belitting, it was in response to being attacked or using a poster's word on back at them...what, a liberal can post "guffaw guffaw" and that is fine, but I answer one of their posts with "guffaw guffaw" and I am belitting? Double standard, does that ring a bell?
You said: "Liberal" also does not denote naive fool and you are fooling no one with your disingenous posts, hence the nausea you produce.
I say: Please explain what you mean? You don't know me. I made an honest effort to ask what a liberal was because I did want to understand it..and the variety of answers I got was really interesting. There are a few on this board who actually BELIEVE in live and let live, do not mind a debate, and like me, want to learn what regular people are thinking. But from your perspective, I am not a regular person...I am something to be reviled, ridiculed, and run back to "my own board." You know, that is reminiscent of the old Democratic party who preached segregation...yep, look it up, it was the Democratic party who voted against desegregation over and over again. And now you want to practice it again..only now you want to segregate conservatives. Wow. How INtolerant of you.
You say: I believe part of the quality of liberalism is to be accepting of others' lifestyles, belief systems,
I say: yeah, unless it is a conservative belieft system....
You say: race, color, creed, etc. but it is not to accept or tolerate cruelty, bigotry,
hatred, violence, etc.
This is such a basic concept I can't believe I'm explaining it!!
I say: Yeah it is a basic concept. Yeah you are explaining it. Trouble is, you explain it, but it does not translate into action. Your post to me is in opposition to most of what you said here. Apparently this wonderful concept extends only to other liberals...it sure doesn't extend to conservatives!
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Let's examine this...
YOU SAID: We might as well be from two different planets. And, no we do not agree to disagree. Who are you to tell me? You started it by posting blather and you are grasping at straws. I never said he lied.
RESPONSE: Who am I to tell you what? What did I start? What does this rant mean? What straws am I grasping at? I posted that the man said "The surge is working." The man DID say that. What is wrong with posting the truth? Sheesh.
Does the thought never enter your mind that you might be wrong about something? Well of course not...what on earth am I thinking??
YOU SAID: Here's a thought, stop reading propaganda.
RESPONSE: Welllll in looking at your list of sites you invite me to try, you are in no position to tell ME to stop reading propaganda. And believe it or not, I have perused Iraq Daily, and Al-Jazeera. And saw exactly what I expected to see. Just as you do.
YOU SAID: Yes, I do NOT watch Fox News. It is the single most unreliable and biased news source in the world today.
RESPONSE: I can certainly see why you don't like Fox. Wayyy too upbeat and optimistic for you. Bet you don't like perky Katie Couric either, do you? lol.
YOU SAID: It is for those of low intelligence and malleable people who can't think for themselves.
RESPONSE: Does not deserve one. Just illustrates one of the more unattractive qualities of your brand of liberalism.
YOU SAID: I also watch very little CNN.
RESPONSE: Not liberal enough for you? One does occasionally see something positive on CNN. Can't have that, can we???
YOU SAID: When I watch American news it is MSNBC.
RESPONSE: Yeah, Chris Matthews should be right up your alley. You post a lot like he talks. I have tried to watch him a few times, but there is not enough room in the studio for his ego and anyone else's. Much like you and Taiga/Teddy on this board. But you think for yourselves, right? ;-)
YOU SAID: I travel the globe for information, because when you get more than one side of story, you can assimilate information and come to your own conclusion without having to rely on someone else to tell you.
RESPONSE: Well, it would help to have an open mind as you travel the globe....and you are "assimilating" the information and not relying on them to tell you, but you are relying on the information they give you in this assimililation...? And while you are intelligent enough to do so, I am not, right? And you have the nerve to call ME arrogant? lol.
YOU SAID:
You should try some of these on for size: World Press.org, Middle East Times, Iraqi News, Iraq Daily, The Independent, commondreams.org, WND Information Clearing House, and if you can possibly stand it, Aljazeera.com, and I could go on and on and on and on and on.
RESPONSE: I love your judgments as to what I read and do not read. Very arrogant of you to assume I only watch Fox. Part of the reason I do watch Fox along with other things is so that I don't descend into the sea of pessimism where it appears you abide. Thanks, but no thanks. I am a glass half full kind of person, clearly you are not.
Common Dreams...now there is an unbiased site. LOL. Just check out the list of contributors. You don't get much further to the left. You do exactly what you accuse me of...you go only where your ideas are substantiated and ridicule any site that does not. Very "democratic" and totally one-sided of you.
Al-Jazeera...yep, there is another totally unbiased news outlet. You are definitely a card carrying member of the hate America first club who would like to turn us into Europe Jr. Truthfully...as you invite me to jump over the fence to the other board...why don't you just jump the fence to Europe and become a citizen of the world like you want to be? Europe is already Europe. Don't have to change anything. Now before you get all hot and bothered and start screaming I am telling you to leave the country...I was simply asking a question. It would make sense that you would seek what you keep saying you want, that's all. Maybe you would not be so pessimistic living in the UK or France? Or Syria? Iran, maybe? No, that would not work, you would not keep your head long enough in a Muslim country. Not a woman with your attitude. And speaking of...if Hillary is elected that alone will do more to anger Muslims against us than any other single event. A WOMAN leading the country? Ahem. Can't wait for that foreign policy nightmare.
One would think that if you despise America (or half of Americans) so much, and love Europe and want to be a citizen of the world...am not understanding why you don't just do it.
YOU SAID: You want to be optimistic because you couldn't possibly face the fact that the whole thing is just WRONG. We shouldn't be there. You are looking to win something that isn't ours to claim.
RESPONSE: First of all, you again put wrods in my mouth. I do think things were done wrong with Iraq. But you cannot unscramble eggs. I do not want to win, piglet, I would like for the Iraqi people to win.
No, piglet, I am by nature an optimistic person. I have never been a doom and gloom kind of person. You have credited me with a lot of things I am not...you keep saying I am a Bush fan. I am not 100% a Bush fan. Have said numerous times I disagree with many things he has done. You say I want to win something.
As I said, I would like for the Iraqi people to win. Because you can't unscramble eggs, piglet. We are there. No matter how we got there, we are there. No matter why it was done, it is done. No matter how their country got in the shape its in, that is the shape its in. Even at all the sites you listed, they all have to start with basically the surge is working before the disclaimers start. "yeah, its working, violence is down, Iraqis have some semblance of a normal life again" and then start the disclaimers..."but can it be sustained" yada yada. All I am saying is that let's see if it can. Let's try to be positive about it instead of being constant naysayers. It has been getting steadily better since the surge. Why not see if continues? Why not hang in a bit and see if they are able to reconcile. The US did after our own civil war. It can be done. I guess I am optimistic enough to want to give it a chance rather than pull out and have another post Viet Nam debacle. Because that is who I am. There is always hope...well, at least for me there is. I am not sure you even know what hope is. We just have very different hearts.
However, I do not palpably dislike you. I believe in your right to expression as much as I believe in mine and would defend that and have. Sadly, that is where we part company. You post as if the very existence of people like me irks you. That is a much more divisive attitude than I have, piglet. You seem very angry, sound very frustrated, and it comes out in the posts. Yep, we are very different people. I do not find ridicule amusing. I am optimistic. And it does not make me angry because people do not agree with me. Would be kind of boring if everybody agreed on everything wouldn't it? Stepford-like.
It appears that you take comfort in feeling superior (that you are so much more intelligent and enlightened), and if that is the case, so be it.
For those who have a pessimistic view of life, when Iraq is finally resolved, something will take its place to draw your pessimism. For someone who purports to believe in the basic goodness of people...it is curiously absent from your posts. Or was that another definition of liberal from someone else?
You need to examine your behavior.
From the Conservative board.
The toxicity has become so potent that some of the cooler heads on the Left are starting to notice. Richard Cohen, writing in his Washington Post column today, describes his email, traffic after a mildly critical reference to Stephen Colbert’s unfunny performance at the White House Correspondents Dinner:
It seemed that most of my correspondents had been egged on to write me by various blogs. In response, they smartly assembled into a digital lynch mob and went roaring after me. If I did not like Colbert, I must like Bush. If I write for The Post, I must be a mainstream media warmonger. If I was over a certain age—which I am—I am simply out of it, wherever “it” may be. All in all, I was—I am, and I guess I remain—the worthy object of ignorant, false and downright idiotic vituperation. [….]
But the message in this case truly is the medium. The e-mails pulse in my queue, emanating raw hatred. This spells trouble—not for Bush or, in 2008, the next GOP presidential candidate, but for Democrats. The anger festering on the Democratic left will be taken out on the Democratic middle. (Watch out, Hillary!) I have seen this anger before—back in the Vietnam War era. That’s when the antiwar wing of the Democratic Party helped elect Richard Nixon. In this way, they managed to prolong the very war they so hated.
The hatred is back. I know it’s only words now appearing on my computer screen, but the words are so angry, so roiled with rage, that they are the functional equivalent of rocks once so furiously hurled during antiwar demonstrations.
DO we want to examine Joe Biden's...
"the presidency does not lend itself to on-the-job training" to "Barack Obama is ready for the job." ? ALL politicians are going to have those "words out of their own mouths" contradicting "words out of their own mouths." It is the nature of the beast.
Did you examine the evidence, or is article enough? nm
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I meant why is everyone fighting (not defending) to let an independent party examine it.
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