NO NO! Again forget religion! sm
Posted By: MT30+ on 2009-05-07
In Reply to: At the risk of hastening my descent into the brimstone - AnnuderMT
Salvation is easy but you have to repent from your sins (which means turn away) from your sins, accept Jesus Christ as the living Son of God and the author and finisher of our faith. Christ himself made it so easy a child could understand.
Nowhere does it say that you can "believe" in Jesus and still go about your same sinful life. That is what repentence is all about. There are folks who will say they believe in Jesus but have not repented. That is something our churches have taken out as of late, repentence. If you truly repent and turn away from your sins you WILL lead an upstanding life. It doesn't mean you won't fall and make mistakes or sin but you will know immediately by the Holy Spirit and you will want to ask forgiveness for that sin.
God does not judge us based on our character. He judges us based on the fact whether our sins have been covered by the blood of his son Jesus christ. If that has happened truly, then your character will speak for itself. There are alot of good moral upstanding people who are going to find themselves in he** because they have depended on their own righteousness and not HIS righteousness to get them into heaven.
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Forget his religion,
he was a total bomb as a governor. He said one thing to get elected governor, then changed his mind when he decided to run for president. Then he went around the country bashing Massachusetts. Now there is a story in the newspaper that there were illegal immigrants painting his house even after all the problems with his landscapers. Such a hypocrite.
LOL. *Liberal Religion* = ANY religion that isn't YOURS.
You don't want EQUALITY in religion. You want yours to be SUPERIOR to all others. You want to force your narrow and specific religious beliefs down the throats of every single American. You can't get them into your religion willingly so you'll FORCE them to fall in step with you via government if you have to.
You couldn't stop abortion by killing abortion doctors, so now you'll do it through the Supreme Court. And your God on earth just happens to be a president who wants the same things that you do, and so he's willing to throw the Constitution out the window (in violation of his Presidential oath) in order to replace it, not just with the Christian Bible, but with his own personal clone who will legislate her own narrow evangelical Christian views that don't even agree with the less radical, quieter forms of the Christian religion.
Government, schools and universities don't fall into the same categories.
There already ARE religous schools and universities. Isn't THAT enough for you?
And what about all those many, MANY buildings with crosses and other religious symbols on them throughout this nation where people of like-minded beliefs congregate to worship the God of their CHOICE? I believe they're called CHURCHES. Isn't THAT enough for you, either?
Nope. You're not going to be happy until you can be *superior.*
The sad fact is that in a country with freedom of religion, you never WILL BE, whether you like it or not. You can put 9 THOUSAND justices on the Supreme Court, you still won't be SUPERIOR, and I believe God, who is all knowing, knows that as well!
Because the Muslim religion is the only religion that says.....
Convert or die.
Religion
Religion - ?riduculous?
I will tell you what is more riduculous - those who truly believe that there IS NO GOD (wonder how in the he## you got here in the first place)...scary..
In regards to religion
It was Barrack Obama who quoted scripture during his speech at that dinner they had last week. I'm so sick and tired of hearing people whine and complain because Sarah Palin is a believer. Well....according to Barrack Obama....so is he! Palin prayed for our country and people freaked out. Obama's church preaches about him from the pulpit gaining control in a dominant white world and how they are oppressed by whitey, etc.....that should be more concerning than whether or not Sarah Palin prayed for our country especially since Obama attended that church full of hate for 20 YEARS!!! Sheesh.
religion
I believe that O sees himself as a Christian with a Muslim father and biracial.
being gay is not a religion
Your talking about two different topics.
My religion is not
Since my sole aim as a Christian is to have a relationship with Christ, I have no religion. I brought up same-sex marriage because of the posts alleging that homosexuals are missing out on some perceived "right." Marriage is not a right in the first place. It is a privilege, like having a drivers license. Blind people shouldn't drive and couples who can't copulate in the way God intended should not be married. Your husband is as messed up as you are. ;-)
It may apply to your religion, but
it doesn't apply to the Constitution.
Are you suggesting that your religion should be the one that rules and that everyone else's spiritual/religious beliefs shouldn't count?
For example, I know some people who don't look at abortion as severely as you do because they believe that life doesn't end, that we merely pass on from one life to another, and that there really isn't any such thing as spiritual death, and that your body is just the "box" you come in but spirit lives on forever and continues to live in different "entities."
I know some people who don't believe in religion at all.
I know some religious people who believe that God gave us free will and technology to help us survive as best we can.
Not everyone is FORCED to believe the exact same religious beliefs that you do. But the one document we all have in common and to which are are all bound is the Constitution.
I respect you enough as a person to respect and defend your personal religious beliefs.
Please return the favor.
I have nothing against the Muslim religion anyway
I would bet that there are millions of Muslims throughout the world who are exceptionally good, hardworking people. It seems to me that each religion has people who will try to twist it around as an excuse to do just about anything. Look at those Baptists down south who protest gays at dead soldiers funerals because they say God is killing all these soldiers because American is getting too accepting of gay people. These Baptists are obviously horrible people, but does that mean all Baptists distort their religion to spew hate and prey on grieving families? Of course not.
I could care less what religion Obama is or was at one time. I think he is an excellent candidate. He is one of the few people who could turn this country (and maybe even this world) around. We need someone strong enough and smart enough to lead this country and help to unite us again, and I think he's the man for the job. I also agree with what someone else said in regard to his knowledge of the Muslim religion/culture being a good thing, especially considering our current dire situation.
Sorry....I do not ever "check" my religion...
it is not put on on Sunday (or Saturday, whatever day one chooses to observe) and taken off on Monday. It is part of the fabric of my life. It is a constant. And that is not a bad thing. Have you read the papers of the founding fathers, wise men of great vision? They did not check their "religion" at the door. It is part of parcel of our founding documents and heavily influenced their decisions. People came here from England for the express purpose of religious freedom. THat is what this country is based upon. And from that desire for religious freedom came all our other freedoms. Our base set of laws is based on the Ten Commandments. Basic moral principles. So I beg to disagree. Our founding fathers lived their beliefs. They did not check it when they walked into Independence Hall.
The establishment of a state religion is prohibited by our constitution. Prayer inside the white house is not prohibited. They pray in the senate and in the house. They prayed on the steps of the Capitol on 9-11. Nothing in the constitution prohibits prayer, in fact it says freedom of religion and the free expression thereof and certainly says nothing about keeping it in church.
The freedom of religion clause was for a specific reason...that no government would establish a state religion and compel the entire country to follow it. It expressly provides for the free expression of faith. And it should not be a basis for discrimination.
Yes indeed, wise men of great vision, our forefathers. If you are interested in how they felt and thought, at this site are their quotes.
http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm
Please give an example where she put her religion above the...
needs of our country. She has certainly done fine by the state of Alaska. Higher approval ratings than either O or Joe.
using religion as a blunt
instrument to beat your opponent over the head with is a very cynical misappropriation of the teachings of the great religions. It does more damage to the believers than it does to the nonbelievers.
seems to have more to do with religion than politics nm
nm
I know, I don't think religion should be part of it either (sm)
But if McCain had been attending a white supremist church that hated African-Americans and had a minister who spewed hatred, and he had attended that church for 20 years and called the minister one of his mentors.....who would vote for him?? No black person, no non-caucasian person, and at least 90% of whites would not vote for him either!
They don't care if you got religion or not..they
X
Of course, you better hope you do have religion
they are already in Europe doing just that. The Muslim population has gone out of control as well as their minds since, unfortunately, Europe was trying to be so PC and let them come in. Bet they're regretting that now.
Now, they wanna do the same with country and if you turn your back to it, they'll have those in this country trying to tell us how to think.....wait....what am I saying.....they already do!!!
Holy cow! You could use some religion...
Muslim or otherwise!!
religion and all that talk sm
Gee, the way I handle it is every night I thank the god of my understanding for getting me and my family through the day and I tell him or her how I appreciate all I have and to ask forgiveness if I hurt anyone that day. I think things get a little out of hand with all this discussion of doom and gloom. I don't have the right to tell anyone else what to do or what to believe. The only thing I think my God might say about all this negativity is, "Don't make me have to come down there!" Loosen up and do your best each day. That's what I do for me and my family, why practice doom and gloom when we have a day right in front of us to do our best in. Just my humble opinion. I hate to instill "fear" in anyone. If you don't sin, you won't have to repent.
I don't know much about the Muslim religion (sm)
but I do know that no one is born a Christian. That is not how we see it. You can be born to a Christian family and be taught Christian beliefs but you have to consciously decide to become a Christian, it is not something you are automatically born as.
Have you been brainwashed by religion?
nm
BB, you don't think religion has a place anywhere! LOL sm
You do know I'm just kidding, right?
Warren did take a biblical stand against gay marriage and homosexuality, which does surprise me, considering what "The MESSage" says, but as much as I disagree with him on a lot of things (not necessarily environmental) I have to agree with his stance regarding what you refer to as alternative lifestyles. According to the Bible, homosexuality ranks right in there with all the other things you mentioned. I won't go any further into that because this is not the forum for it. However, I do think that Warren's watered down style probably fits in more with Obama's idea of religion that, oh, say, Billy Graham might. I just wonder if Rev. Wright got his feelings hurt because he wasn't chosen. He was, after all, Obama's religious mentor.
They question if his religion is
I am sure he is not Jehova Witness.
Freedom of religion....(sm)
also includes freedom FROM religion. It's funny to me that, as you said, people came to this country for freedom of religion (among other things). Now that they're here christians try to impose the very problems associated with those in Britian on the people of this nation. Christians are constantly trying to force their will upon others through politics. Please explain to me how that demonstrates freedom of religion. Doesn't that just put us back where we were?
Freedom of religion is a live and let live proposition....not a winner takes all competition.
Maybe so...but what if the chosen religion
Do you want the Koran read in schools? Do you want the Torah used to make government decisions?
Remember when you invite religion into politics, that not all religion is christianity. Be careful what you wish for.
This is why I don't think relgion has any place in politics.
What if the chosen religion is not your
Do you want the Koran read in schools? Do you want the Torah used to make government decisions?
Remember when you invite religion into politics, that not all religion is christianity. Be careful what you wish for.
This is why I don't think relgion has any place in politics.
Oh there is gonna be one religion and sm
one world leader for all some day and it will be forced upon you. At that time you won't like it either. But,the Christians won't be here any longer. Wish you would reconsider, you don't want to go through that period.
There you go again, throwing religion around.
nm
OMG ! Do you want to say that there are several Gods? One for each religion?
I cannot believe this!
I think there is ONLY ONE GOD, each religion gives him another mame, but it is ONE AND THE SAME GOD, as there is ONLY ONE HEAVEN AND ONE FIRE !
Are there also a multitude of devils?
From what Planet are you?
Stop doing MT and educate yourself!
What proof do you have that YOUR religion, whatever
it is, is THE TRUE ONE?
Downplaying religion........... sm
I think Obama's whole purpose in making that statement was to downplay religion in any form. It almost makes us sound like a Godless nation, which it is looking more and more like that is exactly what we are becoming. That other 30-odd% had better hurry up and wake up. Not only is Obama circling the drain.......so is America.
Freedom of religion........ sm
is one of the foundation blocks of this country, not freedom FROM religion. Every person in this country is, based on the constitution, free to worship (or not worship) in any form they choose. I think that Obama's statement reflects his political viewpoint and gives us an insight into what is most important to him, which is politics at its best with no regard for God in any form or fashion.
Thank you - Intolerance is the worst religion of all
x
forgetting your religion? yeah, right
Not to belabor a point about religion
And I fully respect your right to worship as you please.
But if you're following everything that God said, are you then killing those of your acquaintances who work on the Sabbath (Exodus 35:2)? Do you eat shellfish, even though it's an "abomination" (Lev 11:10)? Do you charge or pay interest rates even though it is considered an "abomination" (Psalm 15:1-5, Jeremiah 15:10)? Do you wear blended fabrics, even though that, again, is an abomination (Deuteronomy 22:11)?
If you're going to preach following God's word 100%, then I hope you're doing it.
However, if you're willing to admit that you take your own interpretation away from the Bible, then perhaps you should allow others to do the same.
Let's keep topic politics and keep religion out of it.
nm
Perversion of any religion is wrong (sm)
For any religion to think they are superior to another is wrong and is radical and extremist. People have had religious wars for thousands of years, killing others in the name of their God, and of course that includes Christians killing each other over whether they were protestant or not. I believe we can tell others our beliefs, and we have a right to our beliefs, but we have no right to hate others of another religion. It is the radicals, the extremists in all religions that are to be feared, not the peaceful people just living their lives, with their own personal beliefs.
The HATERS use their religion as an excuse,
.
if you enjoy books about religion
you should read "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakauer. It is about some of the fundamentalist Mormon beliefs -- and no, I am not bashing Mormons, just a lot of interesting history and insight into some of these zealots, not regular Mormons.
also religion so don't read if not a believer
This is not really political but it is beautiful.
http://www.greatdanepromilitary.com/Battle%20Hymn/index.htm
Doesn't matter about religion and
cannot tolerate, so let's relate it to *religion & politics* for this issue. Same ole same ole.
Religion has no place in politics.
.
Religion, by definition, is a cult.
I did say that nearly 1000 Christians were killed in my original post. The church created by Jim Jones originally joined the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and then was renamed The People's Temple Christian Church Full Gospel.
Someone posted that the followers of Jim Jones were not Christians, they were members of a cult. Someone then posted the definition of Christianity, saying that it was not a cult. All I did was post the definition of a cult. You are the one who is whipping yourself into a frenzy, not I.
This is what every faithful person says about HIS religion,
nobody knows 100% sure which religion is the really ONLY one.
The world would be much better off if there were ONLY ONE religion for ALL, like there is only one God for all.
Only one religion is what they're demanding.
I like the fact that I live in a nation where people are free to worship as they choose.
But those who **know the truth** demand that it's their way or the highway (heaven-wise).
My biggest problem with religion
is this....what makes me right and so many wrong. It often makes me wonder if all religions aren't based on the same "God" because so many stories in their "holy books" are similar, etc. I just wonder if people broke up and interpreted things differently and took one belief and transformed it into several religions under different names. Did that make sense?
Wouldn't it just blow your mind if we are all sitting around and arguing about whose religion has it right when they all stem from the "god"? Hmmm....makes you think or at least it makes me think.
Radical Islam is not a religion......
--
Seeing as homosexuality is not a religion - see message
It SHOULD be taught in schools as an accepted lifestyle. They teach sex education in school, safe sex, etc, why wouldn't they teach about homosexuality? Maybe if it was taught earlier on we wouldn't have so many hate crimes against the gay and lesbian people.
Christianity, Mormonism, Lutherans, Catholicism, Buddism, etc are all religions and DO NOT belong in the schools. That is why there are churches. Unless you send your child to a religious school there is no reason for religion to be taught in schools.
Christians (not all) do force their beliefs on non-believers. In the community I just moved from my aunt and uncle were huge church goers (aunt is secretary, uncle creates a flyer). They have bible studies at different peoples home two and three times a week. In those bible studies they say some prayers, and then they get out their map of the city to discuss who is going to work what area to knock on doors, and be in the stores to approach unsuspecting people who are not in the church and "push" their religion onto them. When we first moved to the community we were approached by a lady from their church, who approached us with questions about our beliefs. When we told her we prefer to keep our religious viewpoints to ourselves, she then stood and proceeded to tell us her faith was the right path to follow and she is doing the work of the Lord, blah, blah, blah. We kept trying to get away and not be rude, but she was holding our hands and proceeded to tell us if we didn't believe we were sinners and would blah, blah, blah (think you get the message). After she was through with us she then proceeded to corner some other "poor souls" and do the same thing to them. When we had someone come out to hook up our cable, he happened to be from their church and began to preach to us. Their whole purpose they said in their church service was to get everyone in the community to join their church and use whatever means they had to do it. I've listened to talk shows where the guest said his mission is to make everyone in American a "christian", and destroy the non-believers and other religions because their religion is the "wrong path to follow". So don't tell me they don't push their viewpoint on us and down our throat. Maybe you don't but a lot of others do.
You need the *right* religion to work for Head Start
My biggest fear is coming true right before my eyes. America is becoming a theocracy.
First Bush nominates Harriet Miers for a lifetime appointment simply because she shares his faith and not because she's a qualified lawyer. Now, they're targeting Head Start. This is a clear signal that America no longer has tolerance for freedom of religion, and if you don't believe in the *right* one, you WILL be discriminated against, you won't get federal assistance, and you may lose your job. What's next?
Tens of thousands of already at-risk children could lose their teachers. And Head Start could lose thousands of parent volunteers essential to the success of the program merely because those parents do not share the religious beliefs of the host federally funded religious organization, the group said in a statement on their Web site. From http://us.oneworld.net/article/view/120566/1/
Head Start Can Make Hiring Decisions Based on Religion, Says U.S. House
Niko Kyriakou
OneWorld US
Mon., Oct. 17, 2005
SAN FRANCICSO, Oct 16 (OneWorld) - An amendment to the new funding bill for Head Start promotes discrimination on religious grounds and would deal a devastating blow to some one million low-income children and their parents who are dependent on the program, according to a large and varied coalition of U.S. organizations.
Late last month, the Republican-led House of Representatives voted 231-184 in favor of the so-called School Readiness Act, which renews funding for the anti-poverty preschool program Head Start.
Wide bipartisan support for the bill's reauthorization through 2011 melted down after the attachment of politically charged amendment, introduced by Rep. Charles W. Boustany, Jr., (R-Louisiana), and Rep. John A. Boehner, (R-Ohio).
The added provision allows federally funded Head Start centers with religious affiliations to hire and fire workers and parent volunteers based on religious grounds. A similar bill approaching a Senate vote does not yet include any such amendment.
In 2004, Head Start served about 900,000 children on a budget of $6.775 billion.
Teachers and staff working at Head Start programs housed in religious organizations could immediately be fired because of their religion, said the democratic values advocacy group People for the American Way.
Tens of thousands of already at-risk children could lose their teachers. And Head Start could lose thousands of parent volunteers essential to the success of the program merely because those parents do not share the religious beliefs of the host federally funded religious organization, the group said in a statement on their Web site.
The yes vote marks the first time that the House of Representatives has voted to repeal civil rights protections in a floor amendment without committee hearings, debate, and testimony from experts.
Representative Boehner, chairman of the House education committee, explained the amendment, saying that he wants to ensure faith-based organizations can compete for federal Head Start grants without surrendering their constitutionally protected right to take religion into account in their hiring practices.
President Bush also argued in support of the bill.
Such provisions should be applied to all federally funded social service programs, so that faith-based organizations may operate on an equal level with secular organizations in competing to provide services that are funded by Head Start, said a White House statement, released just before the bill came before the House.
But hundreds of civil rights, labor, women, and religious rights advocacy groups say religious institutions already have equal access to funding as secular organizations, and disagree that the constitution protects the right to consider religion when hiring for federally funded programs.
Current law requires Head Start providers to comply with federal policies that prohibit discrimination on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin, sex, political affiliation or beliefs, according to the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations.
The Boehner Amendment would create an exception for religious organizations, the group said in a statement opposing the bill released after the House vote last month.
Our concern is that if such a provision were passed into law, the same opportunities to participate in the lives of their children and their children's education would not be available to parents of minority religions, the coalition of some 1,050 congregations said.
Under current law, religious organizations and houses of worship, which administer more than five percent of all Head Start programs, are only allowed to consider religion as a hiring factor when using their own private money.
The original non-discrimination requirements were signed into law by President Richard Nixon back in 1972, and President Ronald Reagan approved the current anti-discrimination language in 1981.
For many groups, the program's 33-year history of bipartisan support makes the Boustany/Boehner amendment a particularly unfortunate addition.
Head Start should be about putting qualified teachers in the classrooms, and not about using public money to require people to pass a religious litmus test, said Caroline Fredrickson, director of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) in their Washington Legislative Office.
The success of Head Start is based on its commitment to helping underprivileged students and not pushing a political agenda, she said.
Head Start provides children from low-income families and under the age of five with academic preparation, socialization, nutrition, health, parental involvement, and family support, and currently serves about 60 percent of eligible 3-to-5-year-olds. It is not part of the federal welfare program.
Some 50 groups known as long-time supporters of the Head Start program have also come out against the bill, including the National Head Start Association (NHSA), the advocacy organization that supports and conducts trainings for Head Start providers.
In a statement released September 23, NHSA president and CEO Sarah Green praised many of the bill's provisions but said her group opposed the bill due to the Boustany/Boehner amendment because children shouldn't be taught that discrimination is a good thing--just because Congress favors it.
Many of these groups worry that the amendment associates the government with promotion of a religious mission, and removes safeguards that protect the program's beneficiaries from unwanted proselytizing. It also de-emphasizes the quality of care, according to Americans United, a religious liberty watchdog group based in Washington.
Publicly funded programs ought to hire the best qualified applicant, says Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of the group.
Why on earth would we encourage discrimination in a tax-funded program? It's simply unacceptable, he said.
Lynn pointed out that since Head Start does not teach religion, there is no need for religious groups to engage in discriminatory hiring practices.
Many of the groups opposing the bill, such as the National Education Association (NEA), a 2.7-million-member organization, actually supported much of the legislation.
For example, groups like NEA were pleased that the School Readiness Act does not allow for block granting of Head Start funds to states.
Many were also happy that the bill would align Head Start curricula with K-12 education while preserving the non-academic services provided by the program.
The new bill forces Head Start centers to compete for grants as well, and addresses concerns over cases of financial waste in the program that have surfaced nationwide by requiring greater disclosure of how money is spent.
But many groups took issue with aspects of the Readiness Act besides the Boustany/Boehner amendment.
For example, the NEA voiced concern that the bill would require teachers to have higher academic degrees, without providing for a substantial increase in funding either for professional development or compensation.
HR 2123 also does not suspend the National Reporting System, which the Government Accountability Office recently identified as unacceptable given its focus on math, literacy and language testing but not social and emotional development.
Charges that the introduction of the Boustany/Boehner amendment was politically motivated take credence from an unlikely source.
David Kuo, former Deputy Director of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, testified before the House Government Reform Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy, and Human Resources last June, stating: [M]any members of the president's own party expressed equal parts apathy and antipathy towards this agenda. Money for the poor? Why, it will just get wasted, they said. We just need to cut the funds and let the private sector take over. We don't need more funds, all we really need to do is make sure that we have a huge political fight over religious charities' right to hire and fire based on their own faith. That way, as I have heard time and time again, Republicans will be seen as fighting for religions and Democrats will be seen as fighting against it.
So Jews go to heaven or must they convert to your religion first?
Just curious.
I am SO with you on the religion in your face thing. My in laws are so sm
judgmental of nonChristians that it literally would make you ill. I am a Christian and a strong one, but I wasn't a Christian I would probably divorce my husband and move 3,000 miles away from all of them.
Nice talking with you.
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