My belief? "late-term abortion" or partial-birth abortion" = infanticide, it is sickening
Posted By: Cyndiee on 2009-01-31
In Reply to: Late term...(sm) - Just the big bad
So in these cases I do think, as in most things, there is no ABSOLUTE, but a judicious guideline for this should be investigated and established by the medical community, as far as survival/outcome, but then we must be willing to prosecute mothers and doctors who go outside the guidelines...with established jail terms....and more money to house these "criminals" for years. Why not let God by the ultimate judge, He has the wisdom and the power, and eternity without God is worse than anything we as humans can mandate, don't you think?
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That you can say this about partial birth abortion sm
says to me that you are a proponent of relative morality or that you have no idea what partial birth abortion entails. Once a society starts with the whatever seems right to you mentality in regards to life, then we are doomed. Pardon me if I say that I am so glad I am not you.
The procedure of partial birth abortion you describe is...sm
somewhat true, as well as gruesome. However, It is never done as an elective procedure, rather as an emergency procedure in order to save the life of the mother when it is a breech delivery and the cervix clamps down before the head delivers, or when the fetus has died in utero. The few times I saw it done during my career, everyone in the room, sometimes even the doctor was crying. To say that someone choses this to get rid of a baby is simply just not true.
All righty then....let's talk about abortion...and infanticide....
planned murder, not natural disaster. Leaving babies to die in soiled linen rooms. McCain has never been for it, never will be for it. Obama voted against the Infants Born Alive bill twice. And abortion has killed more Americans than all natural disasters and all wars combined. So if we are going to talk about body counts, it is a lot higher on your side.
When is someone on your side going to stand up and admit some culpability in that???
Abortion shouldn't even be an issue. With all the forms of birth control
available, many at low or no cost, not to mention abstinence, abortion should not even be an issue. Too many people use it as a form of birth control and it isn't. I know there are some circumstances that warrant an abortion, but those are rare. Abortion may be legal, but it is immoral.
Why subject the rape victim to a surgical abortion. Birth is safer. nm
nm
meant is against abortion...didn't mean supports abortion (NM)
Abortion is for men. nm
This isn't abortion!
Read it again: the child is already out of the womb and breathing! the child is BORN. Not a fetus.
Your telling me that a child that is born from a botched abortion should be left to die?
That is what this bill is about. If a child is born after an abortion attempt, that it should be treated as a US citizen with all rights of a citizen given, including the right to lifesaving medical care. You don't think that's fair?
Abortion
Haven't you guys who are going on about this given any thought that every time politicians start speaking of abortion, gay marriage, etc., it is a smoke screen. They know how to push our buttons, but then they are always hiding something else. The know if they keep our minds on these types of issues, we won't be paying attention to other under-handed things that are going on.
This is not about abortion. It is about a man who...
voted AGAINST giving medical care infants who survive abortion, who are living and breathing outside the mother and unattached even by the umbilical cord. That is horrific, and frankly I don't feel real good about someone who wants to fight for that TO happen, instead of AGAINST it happening. If he can't muster up enough sympathy for poor children dying alone in a dirty clothes closet, how could I possibly believe he cares about the "middle class?"
Talk about a STRETCH.
abortion
I think that it is sad that people do not believe abortion is murder. I am pregnant by surprise and had an ultrasound at 12 weeks (when many abortions are performed) and was able to see my baby move around and his hands and feet. If that is not a baby, heaven help us all. Having said that, I am not sure that abortion should be illegal. In my heart, I know that it is wrong, but in my head, I also know that it will continue to happen in an unsafe manner if it were to become illegal. However, perhaps not so prevalently, so this is a toughie for me, but I cannot believe that God condones it.
ABORTION
who KNOWS there are other alternatives out there? Come on people!! We all type this stuff...There are sooooo many different kinds of birth control out there. Why wait and kill a baby? Bottom line, that's what abortion is. I just cannot believe the mentality of some of you people. I may not have all the fancy words some of you use but I think this is just common sense. I don't even know that I think a woman should have her "choice" taken away but I do think abortion should not be considered birth control. If you don't want to have a baby and CHOOSE abortion, and it happens again and again, how about an old fashioned TUBAL LIGATION? All this talk truly makes me ill to my stomach.
I'm curious how many of you out there are willing to fess up about an abortion and sharing your feelings about your "choice." My sister had a "choice" to make years ago and she has nightmares about it still. The guilt she has felt is unreal. Maybe some of you do live with yourselves and I honestly think any woman who has made this "choice" and can live with herself without any sort of guilt EVER, is just a very hard person.
Abortion
I agree
you won't go into abortion because........ sm
somewhere, deep inside, you know it is murder...a sin in God's eyes just as much as adultery.
The issue is not about choice (and I have other views on that word as well) but about the taking of innocent lives who have no voice to speak for themselves. As far as welfare....it's coming already and it won't be me who pays, unless that top income bracket keeps spiraling downward into the low 5-figure numbers which is not an impossibility.
On abortion
Solomon's wisdom still at work today.....
A worried woman went to her gynecologist and said:
'Doctor, I have a serious problem and desperately need your help! My baby is not even 1 yr. old and I'm
pregnant again. I don't want kids so close together.'
So the doctor said: 'Ok, and what do you want me to do?'
She said: 'I want you to end my pregnancy, and I'm counting on your help with this.'
The doctor thought for a little, and after some silence he said to the lady: 'I think I have a better solution
for your problem. It's less dangerous for you too.' She smiled, thinking that the doctor was going to accept
her request.
Then he continued: 'You see, in order for you not to have to take care of 2 babies at the same time, let's
kill the one in your arms. This way, you could rest some before the other one is born. If we're going to kill
one of them, it doesn't matter which one it is. There would be no risk for your body if you chose the one in your
arms.'
The lady was horrified and said: 'No doctor! How terrible! It's a crime to kill a child!'
'I agree', the doctor replied. 'But you seemed to be ok with it, so I thought maybe that was the best
solution.' The doctor smiled, realizing that he had made his point.
He convinced the mom that there is no difference in killing a child that's already been born and one that's
still in the womb. The crime is the same!
Oh if our current judicial system could only understand this fact.
Abortion..............s/m
You can talk your heart out, I was, am and will always be pro-abortion.
Till to the end of the 3rd month of pregnancy it is the mother who has the right to end the pregnancy.
Who is going to help me in all aspects if I, as the mother, know that I will most probably not be able to care and provide for this child? Not for all mothers is the option of adoption, this means GIVING AWAY one's flesh and blood to STRANGERS an acceptable option.
I am against partial birth abortion.
Really, no one is pro-abortion......
The term is pro-choice and there are a lot of Americans who are pro-choice. If you think they are going to overturn Roe vs Wade to satisfy less than half the population - you will be disappointed. This is just a political joust to get people arguing - with no end in sight. Give it up. They thought they'd win another election with this tired, worn out "issue" - and they were wrong.
And this is different from abortion... How? sm
Abortion is the ending of a life, plain and simple. Yet people get all up in arms when their "right to choose" is taken away from them.
I am not advocating this woman's choice in the least. I personally think she should be prosecuted for what she has done, just as I believe women who have abortions and the doctors who perform them should be prosecuted. There is no difference.
I feel the same way about abortion. sm
nm
I don't know where they want to go with it, but abortion is a choice..sm
and last time I checked it was not limited to one race. Can that same one prove that more blacks abort than whites? There goes that theory.
abortion will always be, whether legal or not
What these anti pro choice people dont seem to realize is, termination of pregnancy will continue whether it is legal or not. The only difference is it will go underground, performed by people who are not licensed and the rich women, they will just make an appointment in a progressive not backward country like America and have their abortion. Essentially women will be baby makers for the government, their bodies controlled by the government. What it comes down to is..the neocons need to mind their own business.
What bothers me about abortion is...
the enormous numbers that need to be performed. In an age where birth control is so readily available and so reliably effective, that there are still SO MANY women seeking abortions, tells me one thing.....
People are careless, that is all. What other conclusion could you draw? If you only had true accidental pregnancies resulting from the small percentage failure rate of most contraceptives, the incest, the rapes, and the abortions to save a woman's life, it still wouldn't add up to a tiny fraction of the abortions we have now.
Every time I hear someone say that that it's a woman's right to choose, or to control her own body, I can't help but hear a little voice saying... THEN CHOOSE NOT TO GET PREGNANT, BE RESPONSIBLE, DON'T HOOK UP WITH SOME LOSER IN A BACK SEAT WHILE YOU'RE LOADED UP ON BOOZE, AND CONTROL YOUR BODY.
Why does choicie and control of one's body only begin after conception takes place?
Okay....McCain is against abortion....
is that better than calling him pro life?
"He voted against sending innocent Americans to a country we had no business going to all because of lies put out by the "republicans"."
First, I am not a Republican, but you cannot lay all the blame for going to war at the feet of Republicans, that's number one. A good many Democrats voted to go to war, otherwise we would not have gone to war. They were talking about regime change in Iraq when Clinton was President. Bush did not invent it. In fact, when Bush was elected the first time, he kept Richard Clarke and George Tenet over from the Clinton administration...both of whom brought with them the idea of regime change in Iraq from the Clinton administration. You should read the quotes from Democrats from the Clinton era through 2003. Either they were all lying too or they believed the intelligence too. I just don't get how people can read those quotes, totally ignore them, and say it was all Bush's lie or the Republicans' lies. I refer you to a post below that illustrates all those quotes. Either they were all lying, Clinton, Bush, CLarke, Tenet, all those Democrats including Teddy Kennedy, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, and on and on...either they were ALL lying or they ALL believed the intelligence. That is the ONLY thing that makes any sense based on their own quotes out of their own mouths. This old chestnut of "Bush lied men died" and "all caused by Republican lies" is the biggest lie of all.
How you vote is your business and you should do whatever your conscience tells you to do, as I am.
As to Jill Stanek...google her. The story is true. If the story were NOT true, the hospital she names would sue her, don't you think? They don't sue because it happened. They issued a birth and death certificate for that child. Everyone knows what happened. She came forward to try to get a law passed that would prohibit that from every happening again (and bless her for doing so) and Obama voted against it...3 times. That is a matter of record in the Illinois state senate. He and his wife are vocal supporters of all forms of abortion, including partial birth abortion. You heard him say in the video that "options should not be limited." That is exactly what he meant. And that, my friend, devalues human life and makes him doubly dangerous as far as I am concerned. And he said it with equal "lack of emotion."
Yes, it was barbaric to let that poor child just die. Horrific. Just as horrific is partial birth abortion. Look that up some time, what they actually do during that procedure, just to avoid what happened above...a live birth. They turn the child breech so that all the body except the head can be born. Then the needle at the base of the skull, suck the brain out and collapse the skill, killing the baby so that it is "born dead." Because if the head came first and the baby took a breath and THEN the brain was sucked out...THAT would be murder. So some inventive doctor figured turn the baby around and suck the brain out while the head is still inside the mother. That is barbaric. And it happens every day in this country. Legally. John McCain is against that. Barack Obama is for that. Enough said as far as I am concerned. And I agree...when are enough murdered babies enough? How many more million?
Spontaneous abortion is hardly....
the same thing as induced abortion...that's a stretch.
Okay, if where I get my polls is wrong and where you get yours is right, why not put it a vote of the people? Because, no matter what someone "says," it is a different story when you have to pull the lever and put what you say into action. Congress would never act on it or you would have a real abortion law instead of one shoved down our throats by judges. Just a question here...suppose a conservative majority got in the supreme court and struck down Roe vs. Wade? Would you defend their right to do that the same away you defend their right to strike down a law making abortion illegal? Somehow I doubt it. Would probably be first in line to say you can't legislate from the bench...just like I am saying. They are to interpret law..not make law. But, doesn't matter. It's a done deed. But last time I looked I had the right as s citizen to oppose it. Just exercising my right. Sorry if it chaps.
Good grief...silly statement. Of course I don't picture a 9-month gestation. I picture a human life being snuffed out. I see one human being given total control over the life of another. And to me, that is wrong. Especially one who is defenseless.
There is much more there than a "mass of cells" at 8, 10, 12 weeks. And if it makes you feel better to think it feels no pain, fine. I am not willing to assume that.
I agree whole-heartedly with everything you said in your last paragraph, but I would like to add teach responsibility for one's own actions. There are Planned Parenthood Clinics everywhere and if not, your local health department will dole out birth control. That is a pretty lame excuse as far as I am concerned. But what is the motivation for anyone to seek it? We already have a legal "oops" method in place.
Wow....have seen abortion videos before but....
whew. The responsibility of knowledge. People should realize the ramifications of "choice." They should know what they are choosing and supporting. Absolutely horrific. Can't hardly type this for the tears.
Abortion is murder....
plan and simple. People scream and complain about the war and how we are killing innocent people.....yet they never seem to focus on the innocent children who are murdered by their mothers every day in our own country. Those are the real baby killers. That is a human life that you are getting rid of....disposing off like it is trash.
It amazes me how a pregnant woman can be killed and it is considered a double homicide and yet other pregnant woman can go kill the baby themselves at a clinic and that is okay.....no big deal. Talk about a contradiction. I living thing is a living thing whether it is still in the womb or not. You kill it.....you are a murderer!!!
You hypocrites..abortion is ok, but
nm
And how do you feel about abortion?
nm
about the abortion issue
At least that explains why u are for McCain. What I don't understand is pro choice people voting for McCain. Nobody said it's murder or not murder. I personally think it isn't and you personally think it is. Why are there no funerals for fetuses of miscarriages? yes, it is a moral issue but I will not dictate to someone that if they are raped OR whatever the reason is.. that they cannot have an abortion. That said, it does explain why you vote for McCain. The other people are a mystery.
Well, Biden is against abortion.
I think a woman should have a right to choose no matter what the circumstance. And all of you saying you want to pay more taxes for these children born out of wedlock like Palin's daughter, then you're being hypocritical. You either want to pay more for these programs or you don't.
Just because someone wants to adopt a child doesn't mean they are good parents.
FYI to poster in this thread; STDs do take lives. AIDS kills. If the doctor doesn't treat the patient and educate them on safety especially homosexuals, an STD will take a life.
There is no one forcing you to get an abortion. nm
.
Abortion : adoption....s/m
What reasoning is it that the GOVERNMENT or CHURCH has the right to decide what happens to M Y embryo????
Up to the 5th month, later it is a crime.
I am absolutely AGAINST partial birth abortion, only if the life of the mother is in danger.
Hate to say anything on here but I do not believe in abortion either.
To each her own, but I would always wonder what the sex of my baby would have been and what kind of a person s/he would be in life, would cry at every birthday, holiday, etc., etc. My life would be "ruined" and I don't know how I would live with myself. But that's just me and I have a right to my opinion as do the rest but I don't think baby bashing is the right way to go. I do think it is a baby from conception and the only way to avoid getting pregnant is to say "no" to "him" not "no" to a baby. Watch the flaming I get now! I guess I will just stay off here for awhile and be happy around the holidays. Too much fighting on here - unhealthy place sometimes!
We were talking about abortion...... sm
And that statement was in the context of an unborn child who God does take sometimes for reasons unknown to us.
Don't try to compare apples to oranges. I'm not going to get into a long theological discussion on this forum with you because it is not the place, so we have been told by the moderators.
Abortion - tolerance?
I ask this in the politest way possible and with all due respect. I felt the need to say this after reading the posts below.
Is it possible to be a little more sensitive to those who have undergone an abortion for whatever reason and to be careful on the words being chosen, such as "murder." I'm sure there are some reading these posts who have had an abortion. It can be a very traumatizing thing to go through, which you cannot take back. There are some of us who have become pregnant with very deformed babies that would be extremely difficult to raise, including the possibility of not surviving after birth, where the choice to abort was difficult but a personal decision. I'm not saying it's the right choice. I'm just saying sometimes a woman feels there is no other.
I say this from experience because I had to make that choice, and when I read that people think I'm a murderer and killed my baby, it makes it that much more hard to bear because I will always, always regret it. I know I'm forgiven, but sometimes it's still hard to think---what if.
Just please be sensitive with the words you choose, and know there are those of us out here who have made this choice and regret it and have to live with it for the rest of our lives.
If you are against abortion, that's your business, but...
You have got a lot of nerve comparing abortion to the Holocaust!
Abortion is nothing new to this world....
Abortions have been carried out for centuries. The only difference is, they are legal in this country for the safety of the mother. I am not pro-abortion, but I am pro-choice. You have the right to what you wish with your body, I have the right to do the same. Keep your nose out of my womb.
OBAMANOMICS - abortion ?
GhostMom is absolutely correct. This is her choice. What right does anyone have to dictate to her NOW, about her job. First it is the abortion issue, and now you want to dictate to people what they can and can not do. Sounds Hitler-ian to me. This is preposterous. He has no experience in anything. I hope he gets stopped before my/your children have no future.
every once in a while the issue about abortion
comes up, leads to a lot of insulting and flaming comments back and forth, with no resolve.
Can we just stop discussing this issue?????
BTW, I am pro-choice, up to the end of 3rd month, it is my body and my life and my right to decide how many children I want to have, because I want to be able to care for ALL of my children, without needing support from charity organizations, the government or other people and I am AGAINST adoption.
This Octomon should have had my attitude, then she would NOT be in this miserable situation.
Please, NO REBUTTALS AND NO INSULTS following my post!
every once in a while the issue about abortion
comes up, leads to a lot of insulting and flaming comments back and forth, with no resolve.
Can we just stop discussing this issue?????
BTW, I am pro-choice, up to the end of 3rd month, it is my body and my life and my right to decide how many children I want to have, because I want to be able to care for ALL of my children, without needing support from charity organizations, the government or other people and I am AGAINST adoption.
This Octomon should have had my attitude, then she would NOT be in this miserable situation.
Please, NO REBUTTALS AND NO INSULTS following my post!
every now and then the issue pro-abortion
versus pro-life comes up on this forum. People comment back and forth until it gets out ouf hand and bashing sets in. Every time it ends in this way.
My opinion: It is justifiable to termiante a pregnancy up to the end of the 3rd month. AFTER that not.
I would regard an abortion performed during the last trimester of the pregnancy, what is called 'partial birth' abortion, as a crime and doctors who perform those abortions should definitely get punished and their license wtihdrawn.
Under no circumstances should it be allowed that a person kills a doctor who performs 'partial-birth' abortions. This renders also this person a murderer.
Please do not bash me for condoning abortions up to the end of the 3rd month, because I think that a mother has the right to decide. If during these 3 months she could not decide, then she should maintain her pregnancy, no abortion allowed.
While I disagree with abortion...
I do not think that calling what this nutjob did God's work is correct, nor is it really very smart. This only sets back any sort of headway that might be made for the pro-life movement by painting anyone who is pro-life as just as crazy as the man who murdered this abortionist. My God does not believe that two wrongs make a right. Both of these men are going to the very hot place in my book.
He believes in abortion. NM below
x
abortion versus rudolph
Science has not determined when life begins, at conception? After the first trimester? But the argument is moot, actually, as it is legal to get an abortion, it is not legal to take the law into your own hands and kill because you do not agree with the legal medical procedure that is being performed. Enormous difference. Law abiding citizens do not kill because they disagree with the law.
The abortion issue is just the tip of the iceberg.
It revolves around the issue of privacy and whether Americans have a constitutional right to privacy. It could potentially involve living wills and other privacy issues, once America accelerates its speed on the highway back to the 1950s. This appointment is a lifetime appointment, and Miers will be with us long after Bush and company are gone.
If she had been on the bench in the Terri Schiavo case, God only knows how that would have turned out. There again, Bush tried to inflict his own personal religious views upon a private American family. Believe it or not, I was actually in favor of keeping Terri Schiavo alive because I believed all the spin that was being thrown in my direction regarding her true condition. I even wrote to Jeb Bush, encouraging him to keep this woman alive. Then the truth came out about her true condition, and I realized it was nothing but conservative spin, and this poor woman was nothing more than a pawn being used in order to promote a conservative agenda, and I felt like a real fool for believing any of it. So you see, I haven't been automatically anti-Bush. I'm just tired of all his deception, my trust in him is gone, and after all the lies from Iraq to Schiavo, I simply don't believe him any more.
I'm willing to mind my own business, let people live their individual lives on their own to assess their own personal situations as they may arise, and not force my personal religious views on every American citizen.
Are you?
First of all, you cannot equate gun ownership with abortion. sm
It's like the analogy above about a wart and a child. It's by pidgeon holding abortion in these terms that legal abortion was passed in the first place. Abortion is not a *right* in my opinion. It is murder. Since when does anyone have the right to murder another human being? Oh, I know, life doesn't start until the first breath. Well, that's your belief. The fact that God may not have willed the way a person came into the world, does not mean He has not planned a purpose for that individual. Long before anyone is conceived, God’s purpose for that life is foreseen.
Question regarding the abortion discussion below??
This question is mainly for anti abortion advocates. What would you do in a situation where you were found to be pregnant, but it was found to be an ectopic pregnancy? Would you terminate the pregnancy, or carry it to conclusion, whatever that conclusion may be? Thanks for any replies.
Well...I don't think legal abortion exists...
in any Muslim country.
what kind of person has an abortion?
Im just wondering how anyone that has an abortion can live with themselves... do you go on to have further children? do you wonder about the one you killeD? Of all the women that are devastated when have a spontaenous abortion, and then those that "CHOOSE" a therapeutic abortion... don't you have a HEART?!
All of this abortion talk has me wondering... sm
Doesn't anyone believe in adoption anymore? I know this is a discussion about abortion and the govt. etc., but it makes me wonder. I read these posts about all the babies that are aborted and maybe they are better off because of the homes they might be coming from if they weren't aborted. It just seems like that it is an either or, abortion or keep the baby. There is another option and it is an option that most extreme groups won't even mention. I have heard from pro-lifers and not once have they said anything about adoption and when I asked, they looked at me like I had 2 heads.
It just seems that more people would consider adoption as a choice. I know that if I got pregnant when I was younger and didn't think I could raise the child, adoption would definitely be on the top of my list. I'm not against abortion and do realize that there are reasons for why people choose them that I cannot comprehend and I don't feel like the women who have them suffer no consequences, but I just wish that adoption would be chosen before abortion.
Abortion is for men, not reproductive rights
Men can do as they please s*xually and have no long term consequences. If you are pro-choice or pro-life either one it's so clear it's for men NOT for women. Especially when you see how many adult men are bringing in teenager girls to the clinic. Abortion is another way to allow men to use women without consequences to them like responsibility.
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