My apologies, Kaydie.
Posted By: Just Wondering on 2008-10-27
In Reply to: I never said I was speaking on behalf of the troops - Kaydie
I read your post quickly in between jobs and did not read it properly. I apologize.
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My apologies to you.....I'm so used to dem
//
my apologies ... sm
This gentleman wrote a very insightful article about, not only obama, but observations of America in general. Thought is was very interesting (whether or not you are pro or con obama). Sorry I wasted your time.
'post' above yours, again, apologies :)
s
Hey JTBB my apologies to you too
Boy, talk about getting slapped into reality (more like smacked) by Just Curious.
After 10 seconds I turned Olberman off and looked for an article to read. Got the same message but without the painful anguished look on Olberman's face. HA HA.
You are right - I can't find this story in any of the conservative web pages.
Do I believe what we have in the office right now are neocons? Most and absolutely yes!!!! Do I believe what we have coming in is the Nazi regime. Most definitely yes!!! I don't know whether I like that or not because basically I do not see a difference. Only time will tell. I hope Obama will do a good job, I really really really do. This country is just in shambles. Am I worried - oh my gosh yes because of who he has been picking to fill his cabinet. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I may certainly be wrong, but I don't see him picking any conservatives in his cabinet, but yet when he was campaigning he was saying he was the only candidate who can bring the two sides together and he will choose both liberals and conservatives for his positions, yet I have yet to see any conservatives. I most certainly do not want more of the same, but I know there are a lot of conservatives who could do a good job, but to me I feel like he is just pushing them aside, which I feel is going to lead to such a division in the country. I still don't know what it is the Clinton have over him, but for him to pick her - oh my gosh!!!!!
I think I just take offense (even though I'm not conservative - I'm an independent with some conservative viewpoints and some liberal viewpoints) but I take offense when one side is called "the enemy" and people lump everyone into one group.
I do hope he does good. I hope he can get some jobs created and the economy back on track.
My apologies..... you DO get it..... finally, someone
99
I can see apologies have no effect on the likes of you. SM
Thank you for demonstrating that. It's funny, because several times liberals have mistakenly posted on the conservative board and then apologized and we never attacked. A good example between the two mindsets, I would say.
My apologies... I thought you were responding to
I usually don't read her posts, so by the time I checked to see if you were responding to her or me, it was too late. Sorry about the hasty reply, but I what I wrote still stands, just in case anyone DOES mis-quote me.
Anyway, a great big OOOPS!
:-/
my apologies about that link below, here is a good one
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4476649n
my apologies to you - I probably did sound rude - nm
x
Anyone else sick and tired of all the apologies
from corporations and our representatives? Are we supposed to always forgive them like their cronies do?
Thain just apologized for spending $1 million on remodeling his office but did not apologize for all the millions in bonsues he took when he left the company after 3 weeks.
Last night during the hearing for Geithner, Dodd spent so long talking, not about Geithner, but lecturing against Bush. I didn't even listen to Harry Reid. He's another one.
Barney Fife recieved $12 million from FM/FM. Sickening (haven't researched that yet, but heard it on the news).
Oh, and how about the $50 million corporate jet that was just ordered by one company, yet are asking for another $20 million from TARP. They SAY they are not using taxpayer's money for this jet. So, if not, how come they needed, and need, TARP money? Bull.
I'm sick of all the greed and coruption, not only in our government but also corporate.
Apologies and we're to forgive them? I don't think so. Why can't we get all this crap cleaned up? Is everyone in everyone else's pockets?
Okay. I'm done venting for now....................I think.
good grief to you, these are not apologies...nm...........nm
nm
Sincere apologies, wrong board. NM
...
Yes, sincere apologies, wrong board. So what? NM
Definitely agree and my apologies to the democrats - see message
Didn't mean to insult any by saying she was in the same group. I do know quite a few really good democrats with level heads and are trying to do better for the country (still wish Kucinich had made it further. I think he's a very decent person) - as are some good republicans too (Ron Paul and others) - its the left wing nuts and I always forget that not all democrats are like that. (and not all republicans are like the uber-conservatives in their parties.
So sorry democrats that I put her in the same group with you.
You need to make NO apologies - your posts have been insightful - see message
I feel the same way you do. I can tell you how upsetting it is to my patooty off and what do I get for it, I don't get ahead, I get to pay more taxes. I work two jobs because I have to and I have nothing - let me repeat nothing, NADA - left over. In fact sometimes I don't have enough to cover everything.
The country is going down the tubes and what do I see...all the wealthy politicians on the talk shows on TV and they all talk with sh-eating grins on their faces as though this is a big joke for them. They have little respect for people like us.
So don't you apologize for any posts you made or any answers you post to others messages. We're all feeling just like you do.
Sick sick sick of it all.
kaydie
believe me, I feel the same way. word is, they want her out of NY, too. They are sorry they voted for her. I just don't see her stepping down from the race gracefully. I figure they have to offer her something really big and I don't see her as obama's vp, unless he is hiring a food taster. I can't believe any medical personnel would vote for her after she said nurses were highly overpaid and underworked - I have seen those girls so tired they can't make it home without pulling over to snooze. AND she just said a couple of months ago that we had already made inroads on health care costs by outsourcing med. tx's and in the same speech promised to bring jobs back to the USA, go figure.
Thank you Kaydie. (sm)
Great post. Very intelligent and well written.
Hi Kaydie
Thanks for your reply and for giving me your viewpoint.
As for voting, I've felt the same way that you do... no one cares what little old me thinks about the next president, but they'll let me vote so I think I have a say so. But I've decided that I need to participate "just in case".
On the religion side, I think that is where so much of the hatred towards Christians lie, in the "intolerance". You see we are taught that Christ IS the only way to heaven and to God, and other religions ARE wrong. If we didn't believe that 100%, we would not really be Christians, because the Bible teaches us that (my preacher is very good about not straying from the bible or misusing verses, and has said time and time again that if he does he expects to be immediately corrected). The Bible is the unerring word of God, written by man, but inspired by Him.
The problem is, you can't just walk up to a Muslim or Jew or anyone else and say "hey, your religion is wrong, because this is what mine says!" because they can immediately say the same thing to you, and if that is your only argument then your going to argue in circles with them.
That's why I believe it is so important to study other religions. Not to believe in them, but to be able to have an intelligent debate with them.
A big thing I notice is that people now a days believe that "to tolerate" means to also believe in. Like because I'm Christian I should believe that Christ is the way to heaven, but so is being a Muslim, Jew, etc. But that contradicts us horribly. To tolerate, according to Webster's, is to "to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit. " Basically, to respect others religions. I respect Muslims, Buddhists, Catholics, Jews, and their views. But I respectfully disagree with them. If one of them wanted to talk with me, I wouldn't just shove my fingers in my ears and say "la LA la la la i'm right your wrong" but I would talk with them and since I believe that Christ is the only way to heaven, I would give them my viewpoints and my reasons for believing this, and maybe they would accept. Maybe not. That's all we can do as Christians, state our case. It's between God and that person to do the rest.
So basically I think that's why people feel that Christians are intolerant. I know a lot of us don't want to even accept other religions as being in existence, but they are, and we have to learn to be respectful in presenting the Gospel to those of other religions.
If you want a good study check out Josh McDowell's "A verdict that demands a truth". It's not a book to sit down and read with a cup of coffee, it's more like a text book. But it picks into every corner of the "why?" of Christianity. It is really worth it to read!
Thank you so much, Kaydie -
I could already tell so much of a difference in my "boy" - in fact, I think he was gone and I got a "man".
He enlisted in the reserves, decided to go active, but they sent him on to basic and said for him to finish the paperwork when he comes out of AIT so he could go active, but now he has decided to just stay in the reserves and go to college with an ROTC program so he can leave the reserves and enlist as an officer - hopefully, he can be all he wants to be!
Also, Kaydie -
Katterbach/Ansbach is where I lived when I was there. I also lived in Bamberg for about 6 months. My uncle lived in Ansbach and I lived with him for awhile and then moved to Bamberg to live with my husband.
And Kaydie, what exactly does that mean?
??
Kaydie
Gosh, till bashing Obama.
In your posts, you have commented on Obama's race, you have commented that he plays the race card which he never has, and you connected his name to Adolf Hitler, all things a racist would do. It just dawned on me that you are a racist. If Caspar the Friendly Ghost were running for President, you would vote for him because he is white.
You commented that you hate McCain but you don't know who to vote for. That is because the alternative to McCain would be voting for a black man who would be in the White House!
If you look at Obama through non-racist vision, you might see more clearly.
Kaydie -
Off the subject of politics, but wanted to tell you something about stereotyping.
I am a 39 year old white woman and am in college. I was in the bookstore talking to the manager and clerk one day during a break, just hanging out, and the subject got on the men in our life. Well, my boyfriend is black. When that fact came out in the conversation, both of their jaws dropped and almost simultaneously they stated that they never would have guessed that because I did not "look like I would date a black man". They went on to talk about how professional I look, how I speak as a professional, and present myself as professional.
you go kaydie -
x
You know what Kaydie?
You are a perfect example of McCain/Palin strategy. Scare, scare, scare. Your constant harping "till the cows come home" gets really old. How about "Joe the Plumber/" Do you REALLY think he wasn't a plant by the McCain group? Know what my husband said? "He looks like a dam*ed skin head." hmmmmm My husband is also a Viet Nam vet and he will not vote for McCain. If you think I'm opinionated you ought to get him going. LOL
you go, Kaydie.
Strength of conviction, that is what I see and what this great country was built up. You keep on posting what you believe in. Not everyone here has their eyes closed to what is going on. Thank you for posting with dignity and not constantly insulting and name calling like so many others here do.
for Kaydie
Your unselfishness by serving the best country in the WORLD is literally beyond admirable. Whenever I see one who served our country, their uniform, cap (I hope I said that right), I become very emotional. In fact, I wanted to work at the Army &/or Marines office nearby, rather than this job. Since I didn't serve, I was unable (as I interpreted it).
I salute you, Kaydie, the same as I do John McCain and all the rest!
It makes me furious when your votes mysteriously "disappear," etc. It's despicable! What does that say aboout the opposing party? There's no denying it!
THANK YOU, Kaydie! You're a true patriot!
Don't go, Kaydie....sm
I know you haven't always been treated kindly on this board, but as an American, you still have the liberty to voice your opinion, whether a single person agrees or not. I have always found your posts insightful and interesting. Stay with us!
You can say that again, Kaydie.....sm
I, for one, need to get back to work. We have to quit making this such an interesting place to be! HAHAHA
THANKS, KAYDIE...nm
nm
Kaydie......... sm
Good to see you. I always enjoy reading your opinions, even though we don't always agree on things. Life would be so boring if we did agree on things, don't you think?
As I have in the past with others, I will have to disagree with your stance that abortion should be allowed. I am not discounting all that you have said here in regards to children who are brought into this world unwanted by their birth mother, and to me that is a tragedy in and of itself. I also am not discounting the sorrow with which some women must bear a child in circumstances that are not favorable. However, tthere are alternatives to abortion. I still believe and always will believe that taking a baby's life under any circumstance is the right thing to do. God alone is the giver of life and God alone is the taker of life. The child that is aborted could be the child that will discover the cure for cancer or AIDS or some other dread medical disease. He or she may be the peacemaker this country/world needs. He or she may just be an average citizen with no world impact, but he or she has the right to live their life, just as you and I do.
Much is said about when life begins and there are varying opinions as to when that moment is. Mine is that life begins at conception and that God knows us even before that point, so taking a baby's life is wrong. Why, if it were not wrong, is a murderer who kills a pregnant woman charged with 2 counts of murder? Why, if it were not wrong, do some women feel such guilt at having aborted their child, even if they felt at the time that it was the "right thing to do"? Why, if it were not wrong, did God create pregnancy in such a manner that it is practically undetectable, except for a chemical pregnancy test, until the point at which the heart and nervous system begin to develop at around 5 to 6 weeks?
Abortion has been around for ages and likely will not go away just because of a few words written on a message board or even by legislation declaring it illegal, but if I can challenge even 1 person to critically examine the facts and not just the emotional ramifications behind abortion, then it is worth my time in stating my opinion. I have enclosed a link to a web site which shows in great detail the development of a baby from conception until the point of birth. I hope that you will look at it and understand that life does begin at conception and not at some arbitrary point between conception and birth.
There is an alternative to abortion.
for Kaydie....s/m
I share your opinion.
Kaydie
I can totally relate to DH story.
I grew up with a very abusive father. He wasn't an alcoholic, but I would get beaten with many things besides a belt (2x4s, choker chain, shovel, bench, just to name a few). I was a straight A high honor roll student. I never got into trouble in school. I have never done any drugs. I didn't really have a social life because I would be put to work around our business and I mean lots of physical labor etc. He would tell me I was a retard and stupid all of the time. ALL of the time. He would never go to any of my stuff, including my high school graduation. There are stories I could tell you but I would rather not. I know what it's like to grow up like that. I would never wish that upon ANYBODY. I wanted to die and I felt like a slave until I was able to take control of my own life after high school.
I also want to share with you that I am the poster of the "What embryos and fetuses are for" because through all of the crap and hatefulness I have had to deal with in my life, I knew there was more to life than pain. I knew I was here for a reason. Now as an adult, I have a beautiful family whom I love very, very much. I take it from your post you think everything was rosy for me with wanting that experience for my children. I know what reality is. I think I turned out okay and I have a great husband and children. LIfe is what you make it. Unfortunately, there will always be someone hurting children and that is a terrible thing. But I truly feel life is precious and something to be cherished. With adversity comes empathy. Just my opinion, of course.
Kaydie?
O
Thanks for being honest, Kaydie. :)
It is fine to support whoever you want to support, and it is fine to change your mind about who you support. It should be who YOU want and feel will do the best for the country, whoever that is. And to have the guts to say so. Good for you, Kaydie!
I just got back from Gettysburg, and read the words "so that government of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE, and for the PEOPLE shall not perish from this earth." It does not say government of the PARTY, by the PARTY, and for the PARTY, shall not perish from this earth. It is about us, as individuals, and I wish every individual this election cycle would vote their individual conscience, what they really feel is right for the country, not what the DNC or RNC tells them they should.
THAT is what I like about Sarah Palin. She has bucked her party, she has faced down good ol' boy politics in her own party and cleaned them out...and most of all...she says that elected officials should serve with a servant's heart. GOOD FOR HER!! What a breath of FRESH AIR and how much further could you get from Washington politics as usual than that?? GO MCCAIN-PALIN!!
Please see inside Kaydie....
The founding fathers were Christians...
Early Years
The First Charter of Virginia (granted by King James I, on April 10, 1606)
• We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God…
Instructions for the Virginia Colony (1606)
Lastly and chiefly the way to prosper and achieve good success is to make yourselves all of one mind for the good of your country and your own, and to serve and fear God the Giver of all Goodness, for every plantation which our Heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted out.
William Bradford
• wrote that they [the Pilgrims] were seeking:
• 1) "a better, and easier place of living”; and that “the children of the group were being drawn away by evil examples into extravagance and dangerous courses [in Holland]“
• 2) “The great hope, and for the propagating and advancing the gospel of the kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of the world"
The Mayflower Compact (authored by William Bradford) 1620 | Signing of the Mayflower painting | Picture of Compact
“Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine our selves together…”
______________________________________________________________________
John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]
John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean He!!." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] |
.......click here to see this quote in its context and to see John Adams' quotes taken OUT of context!
Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]
“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]
John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.
“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61
Elias Boudinot: | Portrait of Elias Boudinot
“ Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits.”
Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]
Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."
Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”
On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”
"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"
Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”
John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.
“Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.” [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, Editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]
Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]
Samuel Johnston:
• “It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves.
[Elliot’s Debates, Vol. IV, pp 198-199, Governor Samuel Johnston, July 30, 1788 at the North Carolina Ratifying Convention]
James Madison
“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”
“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]
• I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.
Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773)
• In 1812, President Madison signed a federal bill which economically aided the Bible Society of Philadelphia in its goal of the mass distribution of the Bible.
“ An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia” Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress
“It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.”
• A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven. [Letter by Madison to William Bradford [urging him to make sure of his own salvation] November 9, 1772]
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.”
[Baron Charles Montesquieu, wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government
See also: pp.241-242 in Teaching and Learning America’s Christian History: The Principle approach by Rosalie Slater]
James McHenry – Signer of the Constitution
Public utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures. The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability and usefulness. In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw entrenchments around our institutions. Bibles are strong entrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses, and at the same time enjoy quiet conscience.
Jedediah Morse:
"To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them."
John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg
In a sermon delivered to his Virginia congregation on Jan. 21, 1776, he preached from Ecclesiastes 3.
Arriving at verse 8, which declares that there is a time of war and a time of peace, Muhlenberg noted that this surely was not the time of peace; this was the time of war. Concluding with a prayer, and while standing in full view of the congregation, he removed his clerical robes to reveal that beneath them he was wearing the uniform of an officer in the Continental army! He marched to the back of the church; ordered the drum to beat for recruits and over three hundred men joined him, becoming the Eighth Virginia Brigade. John Peter Muhlenberg finished the Revolution as a Major-General, having been at Valley Forge and having participated in the battles of Brandywine, Germantown, Monmouth, Stonypoint, and Yorktown.
Thomas Paine:
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”
“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810”
Benjamin Rush:
• “I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them…we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government; that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible; for this Divine Book, above all others, constitutes the soul of republicanism.” “By withholding the knowledge of [the Scriptures] from children, we deprive ourselves of the best means of awakening moral sensibility in their minds.” [Letter written (1790’s) in Defense of the Bible in all schools in America]
• “Christianity is the only true and perfect religion.”
• “If moral precepts alone could have reformed mankind, the mission of the Son of God into our world would have been unnecessary.”
"Let the children who are sent to those schools be taught to read and write and above all, let both sexes be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education”
Letters of Benjamin Rush, "To the citizens of Philadelphia: A Plan for Free Schools", March 28, 1787
Justice Joseph Story:
“ I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]
“ Infidels and pagans were banished from the halls of justice as unworthy of credit.” [Life and letters of Joseph Story, Vol. II 1851, pp. 8-9.]
“ At the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration [i.e., the First Amendment], the general, if not the universal sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]
Noah Webster:
“ The duties of men are summarily comprised in the Ten Commandments, consisting of two tables; one comprehending the duties which we owe immediately to God-the other, the duties we owe to our fellow men.”
“In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
[Source: 1828, in the preface to his American Dictionary of the English Language]
Let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God [Exodus 18:21]. . . . If the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted . . . If our government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the Divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws. [Noah Webster, The History of the United States (New Haven: Durrie and Peck, 1832), pp. 336-337, 49]
“All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.” [Noah Webster. History. p. 339]
“The Bible was America’s basic textbook
in all fields.” [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5]
“Education is useless without the Bible” [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5 ]
George Washington:
Farewell Address: The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion" ...and later: "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."
“ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”
“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.” [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]
"To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian" [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge]
During his inauguration, Washington took the oath as prescribed by the Constitution but added several religious components to that official ceremony. Before taking his oath of office, he summoned a Bible on which to take the oath, added the words “So help me God!” to the end of the oath, then leaned over and kissed the Bible.
Nelly Custis-Lewis (Washington’s adopted daughter):
Is it necessary that any one should [ask], “Did General Washington avow himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country."
“ O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.”
“ I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.”
[George Washington; from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752
William J. Johnson George Washington, the Christian (New York: The Abingdon Press, New York & Cincinnati, 1919), pp. 24-35.]
"Although guided by our excellent Constitution in the discharge of official duties, and actuated, through the whole course of my public life, solely by a wish to promote the best interests of our country; yet, without the beneficial interposition of the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, we could not have reached the distinguished situation which we have attained with such unprecedented rapidity. To HIM, therefore, should we bow with gratitude and reverence, and endeavor to merit a continuance of HIS special favors". [1797 letter to John Adams]
James Wilson:
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution
Supreme Court Justice appointed by George Washington
Spoke 168 times during the Constitutional Convention
"Christianity is part of the common law"
[Sources: James Wilson, Course of Lectures [vol 3, p.122]; and quoted in Updegraph v. The Commonwealth, 11 Serg, & R. 393, 403 (1824).]
________________________________________________________________________
Public Institutions
Liberty Bell Inscription:
“ Proclaim liberty throughout the land and to all the inhabitants thereof” [Leviticus 25:10]
Proposals for the seal of the United States of America
• “Moses lifting his wand and dividing the Red Sea” –Ben Franklin
• “The children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.” --Thomas Jefferson
On July 4, 1776, Congress appointed Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams "to bring in a device for a seal for the United States of America." Franklin's proposal adapted the biblical story of the parting of the Red Sea. Jefferson first recommended the "Children of Israel in the Wilderness, led by a Cloud by Day, and a Pillar of Fire by night. . . ." He then embraced Franklin's proposal and rewrote it
Jefferson's revision of Franklin's proposal was presented by the committee to Congress on August 20, 1776.
Another popular proposal to the Great Seal of the United States was:
" Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God"; with Pharoah's army drowning in the Red Sea
The three branches of the U.S. Government: Judicial, Legislative, Executive
• At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge,
the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.”
Article 22 of the constitution of Delaware (1776)
Required all officers, besides taking an oath of allegiance, to make and subscribe to the following declaration:
• "I, [name], do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."
New York Spectator. August 23, 1831
“ The court of common pleas of Chester county, [New York] rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no cause in a Christian country where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief.
New England Primer:
Used in public and private schools from 1690 to 1900 second only to the Bible
Some of its contents:
A song of praise to God
Prayers in Jesus’ name
The famous Bible alphabet
Shorter Catechism of faith in Christ
And the Constitution, Bill of Rights does not mention religion only as exclusionary: Amendments
First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Please refer to the phrase "or prohibit the free exercise thereof." That is not exclusionary.
Wrong, What are we going to do with you Kaydie? sm
Wherever you are born, as long as one of your parents is an American citizen, you are also a natural born American citizen. Period! No one can take your citizenship from you. You have been on this board for quite a while. How many times does this have to be reiterated? It doesn't matter if he went to school in 10 countries and lived abroad his whole life. Anyone born to an American citizen, unless as an adult voluntarily renouces it, just 1 parent needed, is a NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN and qualified to vote for president. Get it?
Kaydie's right. He also said he wished
he had done more and this was after his pardon from Bill (what was up with that?) and isn't American great - you can get away with anything.
Respectfully to Kaydie
I think you have already decided for whom you are going to vote. Otherwise why keep posting internet gossip about Obama. I've already posted my objections to him and that can be summed up in 1 word, preacher WRIGHT. I struggled with that for a very long time and finally decided I would take a chance on that, a KNOWN fact, enough to make me afraid of where we're headed under his administration without adding anything to it.
As for the place of Obama's birth and his birth certificate....do you REALLY believe if he wasn't eligible to run for the presidency the McCain campaign would not have obtained absolute proof of that??? Get real, of course they would. So as for me...no problem with his birth certificate.
As for his past associations...of course he has associated with shady characters as has McCain. McCain's Keating 5 was one. Do you realize he is the ONLY senator who has been rebuked by the Senate Ethic Committee??? That's quite a record.
Obama commercials...I don't know where you are but the one that plays over and over here in Arkansas is HILARIOUS. I can't tell you the content of the ad because both my husband and I are laughing so hard. It plays often and we welcome the comedy. It shows McCain and his expressions during the debate. At the end is McCain speaking by himself FOR Obama when he says, "I've voted with the president over 90% of the time, more than even some of my party colleagues." That in MCCAIN's own words tells me all I need to know about him. I haven't agreed with Bush on anything since 9/11 when he stood up and made his speech....I became a Republican that day but it sure didn't last long. McCain will bring us more of the same, maybe even worse. So if you've done well the past 8 years and want to continue on that downhill path, by all means vote for McCain. I'm not sure at all that we will like Obama's "change" but I'll take a chance on him before I'll vote FOR McCain.
Funny I have watched all of the debates and speeches and parts of speeches until I'm sick of it. I have yet to hear Obama come close to what I would consider "playing the race card." What I did hear was Palin "he isn't like the rest of us." If that wasn't the race card I don't know what it was. How could Obama possibly play the race card when he is half and half and raised by his WHITE grandmother, the one he says shaped him and I believe him on that.
Nov. 4 can't come fast enough to suit me. Then I guess we can start blaming Democrats/Republicans for our continued downhill course. What we lazy Americans, ALL of us, need to do is get off our lazy butts and do something that will effectively change the course of our country.
okay, Kaydie - I take your bait - what about this?
http://www.zimbio.com/Current+News+Events+by+Marc+Chamot+-NEW/articles/492/Halloween+Display+Shows+Obama+Death+Looming
In defense of Kaydie -
I don't really think that Kaydie needs me to defend her - I think she is pretty tough - but Stardust, you are wrong this time. Up front, I have already voted for Obama...
I have had several conversations with Kaydie lately and I have never heard her say anything negative about Obama because he is black. And she is right to say that there is a stereotype about black women and the way they talk.
Also, if Kaydie is wrong, and I have shown her at least 1 time that she was wrong, then she will post an apology and accept that graciously.
This time, however, she is not wrong. And by the way, if you are not getting it out of her messages, she is a black woman herself.
Sorry, Kaydie, if I stepped into your battle unwanted.
found this for you, Kaydie -
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=29203
"So What, Kaydie?"
That sounds like an expression you would hear from a bunch of 1st graders!
What about McCain, Kaydie?
Why don't you tell us what McCain has planned to help the country instead of bashing Obama. This is an example of what the McCain/Palin ticket has been doing throughout the campaign - bashing Obama and ignoring the issues.
Definitiions for Kaydie
"Hope" hope, hope, hope, hope. Hope for what?
1. Hope that our troops will come home from Iraq.
2. Hope that our economy will get better.
3. Hope that our kids will have a better future than we have had.
" Obama has not even explained what the "hope" is and nobody else can."
You aren't listening. I don't recall that I've heard Obama define hope, or anyone else for that matter, but I just did. Maybe you don't agree with my "hope?" I guess hope is what everyone individually hopes for. Don't you have "hope?" Without hope we are dead.
"Change? Change what? Change our constitution? Change our way of life?"
1. Change the direction of our country which is on a downhill course.
2. Finally put racism to rest which it is NOT.
3. Change the Republican/Democrat mindset to "we the people."
4. Change our election process so that it isn't just decided by a few "battleground" states.
" Change is not always for the better."
**No change is not always better and we have seen that in the past 8 years.
"Yes we can". Yes you can what? Nobody can explain that"
**Yes, we can make changes that will take the government back to being "of the people, by the people, for the people."
Is Obama the one who can lead us in the direction we NEED to go? I do not know. I have said that before and I say it again.
Yes, it is both parties who have taken us to where we are today. We didn't just get there in the past 2 years. Our government picked up speed on the downhill course with the lies about 9/11 and the Iraq war. AND, IMHO Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are right up there supporting George Bush's policies and both NEED TO GO.
Definition of rabid Republican/Democrat. I really don't know any rabid Democrats. This board is overrun with the same old tired anti-Obama campaign by the Republicans with the same old tired accusations over and over and over and over. If anyone dares to post anything that might be pro-Obama, or at least to give him equal time, they are chastised for daring to have such an opinion and the pro-Obama posts are quickly buried underneath the same tired stuff by the Republicans. I tend to think that there aren't that many "rabid" Republicans, rather it is just a few who post under different names. If you don't want to be called a "rabid Republican" then quit acting like a rabid Republican. I would say the same thing about Democrats but I don't know many "rabid Democrats." They seem more willing to address the issues rather than just their "party."
Now, as I've said before, I think you can relax. I firmly believe McCain will be the next president and you will be happy. I will wait and see. I sincerely hope I am wrong about him.
Have a good day.
Thanks for posting Kaydie....nm
Oh look, another Kaydie clone!n/m
xx
I wonder what happened to Kaydie?n/m
xx
I hate to see you go, Kaydie.
I understand tho...it can get really mean. Hopefully when election is over some of that will cease.
Not holding my breath tho. :-)
I agree with you Kaydie,
I would ALSO be on here not very happy if Obama does not stick to his word! I am an Obama supporter, but I ALSO expect him to try his darndest to do what he has promised. We all know that the president can't do everything with a snap of his fingers, he still needs backup from the Senate, but I DO expect him to go to bat for us, as he has said.
As for all the haters on here, yes you may not be one of them, but there ARE A LOT of them on here who have no good intentions at all.
Thanks, Kaydie and MeMT
(: Thank you for putting out your heart. I read every word of it!
I feel better now. Receiving so compassionate and tolerant messages makes one feel really good. :)
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