Murder charges for 3 U.S. soldiers..sm
Posted By: Democrat on 2006-06-20
In Reply to:
I have mixed feelings about this y'all. There is no doubt in my mind that mental issues are involved given the situation. However, they could have just been following orders. Or, worse just murdered the Iraqis on their own volition and threatened a fellow soldier.
Definitely worth the investigation, which sends the message that we (the US) does not tolerate this type behavior from our soldiers.
---------------------------------
Murder charges for 3 U.S. soldiers
They are accused of killing 3 Iraqis
Julian E. Barnes, Los Angeles Times
Tuesday, June 20, 2006
(06-20) 04:00 PDT Washington -- Three U.S. soldiers have been charged with the premeditated murder of three Iraqi detainees as well as with threatening the life of a fellow soldier who they feared would challenge their accounts of the deaths, military officials said Monday.
The three Americans were identified as staff Sgt. Raymond L. Girouard, Spc. William B. Hunsaker and Pfc. Corey R. Clagett, all members of the 3rd Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division. They were charged with shooting the detainees May 9 during a military operation near Thar Thar Canal in Salahuddin province north of Baghdad.
A murder conviction in the military carries the possibility of the death penalty. The accused soldiers are being held in Kuwait, a Pentagon official said. No personal information was available Monday about the soldiers.
The latest charges come as the military is conducting a separate investigation of the killing of 24 civilians in Haditha in November. Military investigators are examining possible murder charges against a group of Marines for those deaths. In addition, seven other marines and a Navy corpsman are being held in the brig at Camp Pendleton (San Diego County) in connection with the death of an Iraqi man in another town, Hamandiya. Since the start of the Iraq war, the military has brought criminal charges against at least 20 other service members in deaths of Iraqis.
Military officials first mentioned the Salahuddin investigation in a brief news release June 16. But details of how the three soldiers shot the men, near the Muthana Chemical Complex, have remained sketchy. The military has not said why the three Iraqis were being detained.
In addition to murder, the soldiers were charged with conspiracy and with threatening another soldier. Military officials said the accused initially reported they shot the detainees while they were trying to flee.
But that account was contradicted by a junior soldier who saw the shooting. Defense Department charge sheets released Monday identify the object of the threats as Bradley Mason, an Army private first class. The legal papers do not specify whether Mason is the soldier who witnessed the killings.
The accused soldiers are charged with threatening to kill Mason on May 29, as the group was traveling from its own operating base to Camp Speicher, near Tikrit, where the Criminal Investigation Division has an office.
You better not say anything, or I swear I will kill you, Girouard allegedly told Mason, according to charge sheets.
Girouard is accused of threatening to kill Mason six different times in the weeks after the detainees died. Hunsaker is accused of threatening Mason four times, and Clagett twice.
They face a hearing to determine if there is enough evidence for a court-martial. The first proceeding, known as an Article 32 hearing, is likely several weeks away, a military officer said.
The military has not executed anyone since April 1961, but nine people are on death row, including a sergeant in the 101st Airborne who killed two officers and wounded 14 soldiers in Kuwait in March 2003.
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Another murder
Yet another illegal shot and killed a mother of 3 in front of her kids according to our area news headlines this morning. Seems he had been arrested numerous times in California, deported once and now ends up in Arkansas. I think all the bleeding heart liberals should take over paying for their health care, kids, food stamps, and their public defenders. It just makes me sick.
did I say murder?
1 a: a moral discourse, statement, or lesson b: a literary or other imaginative work teaching a moral lesson2 a: a doctrine or system of moral conduct bplural : particular moral principles or rules of conduct3: conformity to ideals of right human conduct4: moral conduct : virtue
That's taking it a bit out there, isn't it? You took a simple statement aimed at SEXUAL morality - which obviously was too much for you to comprehend - and defended your stance with broad-based BS. It's my fault teenagers are having sex? Hahahahahahaha...........yep, Bill's right. Why don't you adopt those millions of babies if you are so worried about them - obviously the people having abortions do not want them. It's okay to go to Iraq and kill millions of innocent civilians but abortion is murder? What an oxyMORON. Might as well advocate torture while you are at it.
Go Nascar! If you had the money Obama did, you wouldn't spend it on your kids? Is it any of your business? BTW, that was not a shot at Palin's daughter - it was a point in fact. I feel sorry for that poor girl being paraded around in front of millions of people. Look at her eyes. She's terrified. How awful. They knew perfectly well what they were doing when they dug Palin out of the hat and they knew perfectly well her daughter was pregnant. M-A-N-I-P-U-L-A-T-I-O-N.
Beat that drum.......someone might listen
It's not right for us to murder
but God takes lives all the time and he does it in various ways. He can certainly use another one of his creation to take a life. He's going to take many lives one day. Woman have the right to chose sex, birth control. They have the right to avoid pregnancy. They do not have a right to kill their unborn. It's kind of hypocritical to say you're against murder but, on the other hand, you're happy he can no longer kill any more babies. Maybe, with luck, in a few years he would have died from disease but that wouldn't have helped all the unborn during the interim. He's the exact opposite of Kevorkian. These unborn babies don't get a say in their death sentence. Kevorkian only kills adults who wish to die. Big difference.
Abortion is murder....
plan and simple. People scream and complain about the war and how we are killing innocent people.....yet they never seem to focus on the innocent children who are murdered by their mothers every day in our own country. Those are the real baby killers. That is a human life that you are getting rid of....disposing off like it is trash.
It amazes me how a pregnant woman can be killed and it is considered a double homicide and yet other pregnant woman can go kill the baby themselves at a clinic and that is okay.....no big deal. Talk about a contradiction. I living thing is a living thing whether it is still in the womb or not. You kill it.....you are a murderer!!!
Laws protecting from murder
Yes, this country does have laws that protect citizens from being murdered.
A "citizen" is defined someone who "is born or naturalized in the United States."
Fetuses, embryos, etc. aren't born or naturalized. The issue of when life begins is akin to the "chicken/egg" question and will never be answered to the satisfaction of everyone. It relies mostly on religious views, and one's religious views shouldn't be forced on someone else who may not believe the same.
Again, I believe in minding my own business and NOT judging someone who may have or has had an abortion because it's none of my business.
If you don't believe in abortion, then I guess the simplest answer is: Don't have one.
My conscience tells me that it is murder.....sm
and that is even apart from what my religious beliefs tell me. I believe in life at the moment of conception as I stated in my post above. I won't go into all that again.
As far as amounts and agencies and how monies from my taxes and every one else's taxes are distributed to help provide medical care for those who receive free (to them) medical care, of course I can't provide that. I am not privy to where each of my tax dollars go and how much of it is spent on various government agencies or governmental salaries, etc., and neither do you. Funny, though, you're not asking Obama to produce his birth certificate or from whom he received campaign contributions, huh.
You're right--that's why noone ever goes to prison for murder. nm
nm
No, most of those murder enough babies legally as well.....
@@
Since when do fishers of men advocate plotting murder?
Are you serious, or have you truly lost the ability to disagree with someone - no matter how corrupt - if he SHARES your political agenda?
The fact he described Zarqawi's death is *murder*
is a big clue that he supported what Zarqawi.
I would rather money go to illegal aliens than murder by war.
Apparently, you prefer murder.
We murder 4000 innocent babies by abortion each
and every day, 50 million total so far in this country and counting, and now we will pay for abortions worldwide. Social Security is bankrupt but would not be if those 50 million innocent children had had a choice for life. No one can deny that fact.
Add it up: Abortion kills 4000 innocent babies each day. Queers do not populate.
I would definitely say we are practicing population control, and Obama gonna see we practice worldwide.
What were the charges?
and let's press charges
someone who kills someone who is pregnant for a double homocide but WAIT A MINUTE...... that is not an actual life...
No offense taken. The charges she made sm
are based on the evidence, which is overwhelming. Popular Mechanics definitely did not debunk it. I think it shattered her belief system, just like it did mine.
Bush and rape charges....
He was never charged. A very mentally ill woman filed a lawsuit. I outlined it above. The one against Reagan was never a charge either....was in that Kitty Kelley rag of a book. Never substantiated.
Read the transcript of the charges
I know, I know, it's Fox News that most of you don't believe, but this is the whole transcript, 78 pages long. Hope you all are speed readers. 
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/rrb_-jh_FINAL_complaint_cover_and_aff.pdf
What about the charges and mysterious death of this woman...sm
Do you not find anything fishy here???
Never heard of rape charges against Reagan or GW. sm
Also, Kaye Summersby, Ike's *supposed* mistress said that they were very close but never consummated anything.
10 federal employees and 1 w/ criminal charges
over improper relationships between interior dept officials who oversee offshore drilling and oil executives...............Big oil? Offshore drilling? Run afoul of the law?Nahhhhh
Hope they bring charges against him for war crimes.
I wonder if there is any member of the GOP who is able to accept these realities and own up to just a fraction of this despicable behavior? His inevitable legacy as the worst US President of all time does not even begin to address the justice he deserves.
911 widow charges Bush in RICO suit.sm
911 Victim Ellen Mariani Open Letter To The POTUS
Thursday, 27 November 2003
Press Release: Ellen Mariani Lawsuit
=======================================
Open Letter To The President Of The United States
Mr. Bush,
This ''open letter'' is coming from my heart. I want you to know that I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat and that this is not an attempt to ''bash the Government''.
You Mr. Bush should be held responsible and liable for any and all acts that were committed to aid in any cover up of the tragic events of September 11, 2001. As President you have a duty to protect the American people. On September 11th you did not instruct your staff to issue a nationwide emergency warning/alert to advise us of the attack on America. We had to receive the news of the attacks via the news networks.
In the months leading up to the attacks you were repeatedly advised of a possible attack on American soil. During your daily intelligence briefings you were given information that had been uncovered that the very real possibility existed that certain undesirable elements would use commercial aircraft to destroy certain target buildings. You never warned the American people of this possible threat. Who were you protecting?
When you took no responsibility towards protecting the general public from the possibility of attack, you were certainly not upholding the oath you spoke when you took office. In that oath you pledged to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America.
On the morning of the attack, you and members of your staff were fully aware of the unfolding events yet you chose to continue on to the Emma E. Booker Elementary School to proceed with a scheduled event and photo op. While our nation was under attack you did not appear to blink an eye or shed a tear. You continued on as if everything was business as usual.
In the days following the attacks all air traffic was grounded and Americans, including myself, were stranded wherever they had been when the flight ban was imposed. I was stranded at Midway Airport in Chicago, unable to continue on to California for my daughter's wedding. Imagine my surprise when I later found out that during this no fly period a number of people were flown out of the country on a 747 with Arabic lettering on the fuselage. None of these people were interviewed or questioned by any local, State or Federal agencies. Why were they allowed to leave and who exactly was on that flight. We know for a fact that some of the people on the flight were members of (or related to) the royal family of Saudi Arabia and members of the Bin Laden family. Were these people allowed to leave because of the long-standing relationships that your family has with both families?
It is my belief that you intentionally allowed 9/11 to happen to gather public support for a war on terrorism. These wars, in Afghanistan and Iraq, have not accomplished what you stated were your goals. Why have you not captured Osama Bin Laden? Where are Saddam's weapons of mass destruction? All that has happened is a bill that is passed before Congress for 87 billion dollars to rebuild what you ordered blown to bits. As an American who lost a loved one in the war on terror I do pray and support our troops who were sent to Afghanistan and Iraq by you. These troops have and will continue to die for your lies. As an American I can make this statement as it appears that associates of your family may stand to prosper from the rebuilding of Afghanistan and Iraq.
Mr. Bush the time has come for you to stop your control over us. Stop blocking the release of certain evidence and documents that were discovered by the 9/11 Investigation Commission if you have nothing to hide proving you did not fail to act and prevent the attacks of 9/11. Your reason for not releasing this material is that it is a matter of national security. When in fact I believe that it is your personal credibility/security that you are concerned with. You do not want the public to know the full extent of your responsibility and involvement.
After 9/11 the Patriot Act and Homeland Security Act were passed. Both of these allow the government to tap your telephone, search your home, and seize whatever they feel they need to do on a whim. They can do this without a judge's review or a warrant. I feel that this is in direct conflict with our rights as stated in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
We the families of 9/11 victims need to have answers to the following questions:
1. Why were 29 pages of the 9/11committee report personally censored at your request?
2. Where are the black boxes from Flight 11 and Flight 175?
3. Where are the voice recorders from Flight 11 and Flight 175?
4. Why can't we gain access to the complete air traffic control records for Flight 11 and Flight 175?
5. Where are the airport surveillance tapes that show the passengers boarding the doomed flights?
6. When will complete passenger lists for all of the flights be released?
7. Why did your brother Jeb (the Governor of Florida) go to the offices of the Hoffman Aviation School and order that flight records and files be removed? These files were then put on a C130 government cargo plane and flown out of the country. Where were they taken and who ordered it done?
It has been over two years since hundreds of our lost loved ones remains have still yet to be identified and their remains placed in a landfill at Fresh Kill. We want our heroes brought back and given a public and proud resting place where we all can pay our respects and honor them. These innocent people never had a chance as they were taken from us on that sad September Day.
In the court of public opinion Mr. Bush, your lies are being uncovered each day. My husband, all of the other victims and their families and our nation as a whole, has been victimized by your failed leadership prior to and after 9/11!
I will prove this in a court of law!
Ellen M. Mariani ###
Germany seek charges against Rumsfeld for prison abuse sm
Friday, Nov. 10, 2006
Exclusive: Charges Sought Against Rumsfeld Over Prison Abuse
A lawsuit in Germany will seek a criminal prosecution of the outgoing Defense Secretary and other U.S. officials for their alleged role in abuses at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo
By ADAM ZAGORIN
Just days after his resignation, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be filed next week with Germany's top prosecutor, will seek a criminal investigation and prosecution of Rumsfeld, along with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, former CIA director George Tenet and other senior U.S. civilian and military officers, for their alleged roles in abuses committed at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called 20th hijacker and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings. As TIME first reported in June 2005, Qahtani underwent a special interrogation plan, personally approved by Rumsfeld, which the U.S. says produced valuable intelligence. But to obtain it, according to the log of his interrogation and government reports, Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques.
Lawyers for the plaintiffs say that one of the witnesses who will testify on their behalf is former Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, the one-time commander of all U.S. military prisons in Iraq. Karpinski — who the lawyers say will be in Germany next week to publicly address her accusations in the case — has issued a written statement to accompany the legal filing, which says, in part: It was clear the knowledge and responsibility [for what happened at Abu Ghraib] goes all the way to the top of the chain of command to the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld .
A spokesperson for the Pentagon told TIME there would be no comment since the case has not yet been filed.
Along with Rumsfeld, Gonzales and Tenet, the other defendants in the case are Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone; former assistant attorney general Jay Bybee; former deputy assisant attorney general John Yoo; General Counsel for the Department of Defense William James Haynes II; and David S. Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff. Senior military officers named in the filing are General Ricardo Sanchez, the former top Army official in Iraq; Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the former commander of Guantanamo; senior Iraq commander, Major General Walter Wojdakowski; and Col. Thomas Pappas, the one-time head of military intelligence at Abu Ghraib.
Germany was chosen for the court filing because German law provides universal jurisdiction allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world. Indeed, a similar, but narrower, legal action was brought in Germany in 2004, which also sought the prosecution of Rumsfeld. The case provoked an angry response from Pentagon, and Rumsfeld himself was reportedly upset. Rumsfeld's spokesman at the time, Lawrence DiRita, called the case a a big, big problem. U.S. officials made clear the case could adversely impact U.S.-Germany relations, and Rumsfeld indicated he would not attend a major security conference in Munich, where he was scheduled to be the keynote speaker, unless Germany disposed of the case. The day before the conference, a German prosecutor announced he would not pursue the matter, saying there was no indication that U.S. authorities and courts would not deal with allegations in the complaint.
In bringing the new case, however, the plaintiffs argue that circumstances have changed in two important ways. Rumsfeld's resignation, they say, means that the former Defense Secretary will lose the legal immunity usually accorded high government officials. Moreover, the plaintiffs argue that the German prosecutor's reasoning for rejecting the previous case — that U.S. authorities were dealing with the issue — has been proven wrong.
The utter and complete failure of U.S. authorities to take any action to investigate high-level involvement in the torture program could not be clearer, says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, a U.S.-based non-profit helping to bring the legal action in Germany. He also notes that the Military Commissions Act, a law passed by Congress earlier this year, effectively blocks prosecution in the U.S. of those involved in detention and interrogation abuses of foreigners held abroad in American custody going to back to Sept. 11, 2001. As a result, Ratner contends, the legal arguments underlying the German prosecutor's previous inaction no longer hold up.
Whatever the legal merits of the case, it is the latest example of efforts in Western Europe by critics of U.S. tactics in the war on terror to call those involved to account in court. In Germany, investigations are under way in parliament concerning cooperation between the CIA and German intelligence on rendition — the kidnapping of suspected terrorists and their removal to third countries for interrogation. Other legal inquiries involving rendition are under way in both Italy and Spain.
U.S. officials have long feared that legal proceedings against war criminals could be used to settle political scores. In 1998, for example, former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet — whose military coup was supported by the Nixon administration — was arrested in the U.K. and held for 16 months in an extradition battle led by a Spanish magistrate seeking to charge him with war crimes. He was ultimately released and returned to Chile. More recently, a Belgian court tried to bring charges against then Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for alleged crimes against Palestinians.
For its part, the Bush Administration has rejected adherence to the International Criminal Court (ICC) on grounds that it could be used to unjustly prosecute U.S. officials. The ICC is the first permanent tribunal established to prosecute war crimes, genocide and other crimes against humanity.
Abuse of Power charges stick to Palin like glue.
So, what goes around comes around. After a hard week out on that campaign trail attacking Obama right, left and center, seems Sarah has a character issue of her own now to deal with. Oops!
Baby daddy's mommy arrested on drug charges
I heard today Palin is responding to Levi's charges
by throwing the dirt back at him. I say that is how every woman her age should behave, right? Tit for tat.
Bristol's future MIL arrested on 6 counts of felony drug charges.
Palins can't seem to catch a break this past week.
Obama is letting them drop charges against terrorists for this horrible sick crime???
What orifice did you pull this out of?
Another way to use soldiers
Out of respect for your request, Democrat, I will call myself Starcat.
It seems to me the last sentence sums it up very well, but Bush doesn't have the guts for that, does he? Just canned questions and canned answers.
Bush Teleconference With Soldiers Staged
By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press WriterThu Oct 13, 4:35 PM ET
It was billed as a conversation with U.S. troops, but the questions President Bush asked on a teleconference call Thursday were choreographed to match his goals for the war in Iraq and Saturday's vote on a new Iraqi constitution.
This is an important time, Allison Barber, deputy assistant defense secretary, said, coaching the soldiers before Bush arrived. The president is looking forward to having just a conversation with you.
Barber said the president was interested in three topics: the overall security situation in Iraq, security preparations for the weekend vote and efforts to train Iraqi troops.
As she spoke in Washington, a live shot of 10 soldiers from the Army's 42nd Infantry Division and one Iraqi soldier was beamed into the Eisenhower Executive Office Building from Tikrit — the birthplace of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.
I'm going to ask somebody to grab those two water bottles against the wall and move them out of the camera shot for me, Barber said.
A brief rehearsal ensued.
OK, so let's just walk through this, Barber said. Captain Kennedy, you answer the first question and you hand the mike to whom?
Captain Smith, Kennedy said.
Captain. Smith? You take the mike and you hand it to whom? she asked.
Captain Kennedy, the soldier replied.
And so it went.
If the question comes up about partnering — how often do we train with the Iraqi military — who does he go to? Barber asked.
That's going to go to Captain Pratt, one of the soldiers said.
And then if we're going to talk a little bit about the folks in Tikrit — the hometown — and how they're handling the political process, who are we going to give that to? she asked.
Before he took questions, Bush thanked the soldiers for serving and reassured them that the U.S. would not pull out of Iraq until the mission was complete.
So long as I'm the president, we're never going to back down, we're never going to give in, we'll never accept anything less than total victory, Bush said.
The president told them twice that the American people were behind them.
You've got tremendous support here at home, Bush said.
Less than 40 percent in an AP-Ipsos poll taken in October said they approved of the way Bush was handling Iraq. Just over half of the public now say the Iraq war was a mistake.
White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Thursday's event was coordinated with the Defense Department but that the troops were expressing their own thoughts. With satellite feeds, coordination often is needed to overcome technological challenges, such as delays, he said.
I think all they were doing was talking to the troops and letting them know what to expect, he said, adding that the president wanted to talk with troops on the ground who have firsthand knowledge about the situation.
The soldiers all gave Bush an upbeat view of the situation.
The president also got praise from the Iraqi soldier who was part of the chat.
Thank you very much for everything, he gushed. I like you.
On preparations for the vote, 1st Lt. Gregg Murphy of Tennessee said: Sir, we are prepared to do whatever it takes to make this thing a success. ... Back in January, when we were preparing for that election, we had to lead the way. We set up the coordination, we made the plan. We're really happy to see, during the preparation for this one, sir, they're doing everything.
On the training of Iraqi security forces, Master Sgt. Corine Lombardo from Scotia, N.Y., said to Bush: I can tell you over the past 10 months, we've seen a tremendous increase in the capabilities and the confidences of our Iraqi security force partners. ... Over the next month, we anticipate seeing at least one-third of those Iraqi forces conducting independent operations.
Lombardo told the president that she was in New York City on Nov. 11, 2001, when Bush attended an event recognizing soldiers for their recovery and rescue efforts at Ground Zero. She said the troops began the fight against terrorism in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and were proud to continue it in Iraq.
I thought you looked familiar, Bush said, and then joked: I probably look familiar to you, too.
Paul Rieckhoff, director of the New York-based Operation Truth, an advocacy group for U.S. veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, denounced the event as a carefully scripted publicity stunt. Five of the 10 U.S. troops involved were officers, he said.
If he wants the real opinions of the troops, he can't do it in a nationally televised teleconference, Rieckhoff said. He needs to be talking to the boots on the ground and that's not a bunch of captains.
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Soldiers are no different than anyone else....
in that there are those who disagree with this administration and the war. However, the overwhelming majority of the military respect the commander in chief and they believe in their mission. But, if you only watch CNN and liberal media, you will not hear from those soldiers. For every article from a liberal source you find that Bush did not listen to leaders, I can find one from a conservative source to counter. We will have to agree to disagree. I do not find this administration stubborn...I find this administration trying to stick to its guns so to speak, doing what is best in the long run for this country as far as countering terrorism. I know you do not understand nor want to understand the danger; however, I do. Every time Reid or Pelosi do something stupid, the liberal media lauds them as heroes and you can go right to the Arab news outlets and see how they pick it up and run with it. Al Qaeda must be lovin life right now. And that makes me SICK.
As to the half staff, talk about stubborness...I do not know and still do not understand why you cling to that as some kind of evidence that Bush doesn't care about the soldiers or people in Iraq, because he ordered a half staff for the VA Tech victims. And why you would say just because we have always done it that way... sheesh. Hanging onto this just screams at me that it is your problem with Bush personally and nothing else. I cannot see how you can find fault with the half staff and criticize the man for showing up at Va Tech. And..frankly...he cannot control what the governor said, but that being said...I do not understand the reaction of the left to it. But then I do not understand the reaction of the left to much of anything. I do not understand how you profess compassion for the Iraqi civilians yet want to cut and run and leave them to the terrorist thugs. That makes absolutely no sense to me. A President showing compassion for those kids at VA Tech, and you don't like that...what kind of sense does that make? The President shows compassion meeting with families of fallen soldiers, and if you look at him you can tell the toll this has all taken on him personally...if you took the time to look...not that you give a darn. I would like to say I understand you, but I don't. I used to think I did, but you have changed. It kinda reminds me of the at commercial I once saw that said: *You will be assimilated. Sadly, I believe you have been.
Who are these many soldiers?
I would be interested in knowing. I did not say you or anyone was Anti American...do not put words in my mouth. You used the word patriotic, I used it back to you. I said it was not illegal...and it is not. Congress voted for it. It is not illegal. If a soldier said it was immoral it is his right, like it is your right. However, when you talk about pulling funding when we have troops in battle, yes, I think that is unpatriotic, and if a soldier said we should pull funding, yes, I would say he was unpatriotic too. I have never heard a soldier say so. I have certainly never heard "many" soldiers call the war immoral either.
For the soldiers
As a tribute to our soldiers I felt a strong need to post this. As a prior US Army soldier I was proud of my country when I served and I am proud of all our soldiers in today's Army, and proud of anyone who decides (past, present, and future), that they love our country so much and the freedoms it offers us to give their time to the military. This is no small step. Your whole life changes in the blink of an eye (or however long it takes you to sign your name) and you will never be the same again or look at things the same as you did before.
The election recently has brought this to mind. I can remember the times my mom sending me an absentee ballot to vote and when I turned it in to my First Sergeant he looked at it and said Soldiers do not have the right to vote. You are a soldier in the Army and you will serve your country. We were "An Army of One" and our individual viewpoints do not matter. (When I joined J. Carter was president and this was the next election when Carter/Regan were running). So I threw my ballot in the garbage and followed my First Sergeant's order as a soldier is trained to do.
I have been reading that 68% of our veterans support J. McCain and only 23% support B. Obama. There is a post below that has an article that is focusing on only those 23%. In any organization you are going to have disgruntled employees, but if you were trying to judge a company would you base your decision on the few disgruntled or what the company employees have to say as a whole about their company.
Here are what some of the veterans are saying about their choices (link will follow below to the actual article) - This is how many in the military feels.
Most military will not vote for Obama, with every rule there is an exception but I personally know that the majority of the military will never vote for someone like him!
Because he is too inexperienced, and unfit to be the commander in chief of the Military!
His stance on foreign policy terrifies me!
He preaches change, but never says what that change will entail, but if you look at his record you can deduce that the change he talks about is a dumbed down version socialism, which sounds nice on paper but never works!
I’d much rather have a Commander in Chief who’s been in the military and one who knows what war is like, and McCain has 2 sons who are both in the Marine Corps and have fought in Iraq…
I’m sick of people telling me that they need to pull the troops out, when I am trying as hard as I can to rehabilitate and get back out there to finish the job! pulling us out would undo everything that we’ve worked for, everything that I sweat and bled for out there, everything that some very dear friends have died for! And by pulling us out you’d be saying that what we did didn’t amount to anything, and those lives lost were in vein.
There is a responsible way of pulling the troops out and there is an irresponsible way. If we just got pulled out of there then there would be a vacuum effect that would turn Iraq into more of a terrorist breeding ground than it ever was before, more so than even Afghanistan. And that would undo everything that we worked so hard to accomplish!!! I have been for this war from the very beginning, and even after facing death, being shot, and having all the surgeries I’ve had since I’ve been home I believe in the cause now more than ever. But even if you opposed the war to begin with we can’t abandon those people now it would be selfish, reckless, and utterly irresponsible to do so and would actually make things much worse for us in the long run.
I’m not the biggest McCain supporter there are many issues I don’t agree with him on but he at least understands all of this, he understands what we are going through over there, he understands combat, and he understands what is at stake in this war that the American people have seemingly abandoned and forgotten, not only our future but the future of an entire nation of people is at risk if we give in and pull out!
Some people don’t think it’s our responsibility to fight for other countries and stabilize their governments but as I’ve said before in previous blogs “It’s a good thing France didn’t have that attitude during our revolution, otherwise we never would have won our own Independence!!!”
Obama is not a competent Commander in Chief! You tell me what exactly he stands for???????? CHANGE? what the he!! is he gonna change? HOPE? what kind of hope? are you kidding me? he never says what the he!! he’s talking about, he just throws out what people want to hear but never provides a solution!!! Most people I talk to that say they’re gonna vote for him can’t even answer those questions, but they’re gonna vote for him because someone they know and respect says they are gonna vote for him! Why don’t you at least look into it yourself and make an educated decision! I can at least respect that! But that doesn’t seem to be the case in most people I’ve come across.
http://twana.wordpress.com/2008/09/08/veterans-against-obama/
One other note is that we need a person like McCain who will be workign towards winning the war and bring our troops home as the hero's they are. Not Obama's idea of pulling them all out irresponsibly and then they'll end up like the soldier's after the Vietnam War. They'll be called everything you can thing of (invader's, murderers, etc.). They'll be treated the same exact way the soldier's were treated from the Vietnam War.
I pray for our troops every day, and will pray until the election is over the the right person (McCain), will win this election.
Do you actually know any soldiers?
Are you honestly suggesting that the soldiers who are on the front lines are less informed than you are?
You think you 'have more opportunity to see the big picture and the real motives behind it' than the men and women putting their lives on the line.
Lady, please get a grip.
Maybe go volunteer at a VA Hospital. Then perhaps you will stop preaching your uninformed views from your keyboard.
I am sure that our soldiers would sm
rather shoot these terrorists too. They can't, they have to do what they have to do to get information out of them.
I can think a whole lot worse I would do to them that would get the information out of them a whole lot faster. Think I will save that though.
Sounds like you want to create a military force of a bunch of "mamby pambies" who do nothing but make sure the terrorists/prisoners are so comfy in their little beds. Good grief should we sing them to sleep to?
What do you think they do to Americans when they capture them? A whole lot more than we ever do to them. Come down to reality will ya?
Yes, our soldiers deserved better.
I think these are fallen soldiers...nm
soldiers votes
you know, on the news last evening, in a very mild manner, it was mentioned that maybe only 30% of the overseas military's votes will be counted this election, due to mail problems, time constraints, etc. OUTRAGEOUS!!! To boot, this also happened 4 yr ago, and still no one has fixed it (tho 1 senator is allegedly trying). Where are all the hanging chad type screaming complaints, the concern for the (hate this word now): disenfranchised???? IMO this would not be a hard problem to fix, so why is it still broke? A soldier's vote should be most definitely counted, WITHOUT FAIL. Grrrrrr. not to mention, that in Ohio, reported also last night, the homeless can now list their park benches as their addresses, and vote. Mind you, you cannot collect help in the form of welfare/food stamps etc without a solid normal address, but you can vote. nevermind that the homeless are likely uninformed. (don't feed or house them, just give them a ballot and tell them who to vote for...) all the while, our military's votes are casually tossed aside, with an "oh well..." i am still fuming the next day.
Tell that to the soldiers there who have heard
##
And you know this, how? Talk to the soldiers
We have several in our town who have been stationed down there and they will certainly tell you it scares the he!! out of them to see Obama is shutting Gitmo down. They personally have heard those incarcerated bragging about what has been done and laughing at the U.S. til the next attack when they heard Obama is closing it down.
Yea, why don't ya just feel sorry for all those poor guys down there, right up until the next attack!
Winter Soldiers
Short script on article of our war on terror - a sad commentary on what is really going on and how our soldiers are responding to it.......
http://www.truthout.org/031709A
Winter Soldiers Speak Out in Europe
Tuesday 17 March 2009
by: Maya Schenwar, t r u t h o u t | Report
![US]( "US") Pennsylvania before the Winter Solider hearings last March." src=http://www.truthout.org/files/images/A1_031709A.jpg>US veterans march from Philadelphia to Valley Forge before the Winter Solider hearings last March. (Photo: Susie Husted)
Last March, a group of soldiers and veterans gathered in Washington, DC, to recount their experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan. They spent three days testifying, confessing and mourning. They revealed atrocities never before spoken of - the brutal murders of civilians, the destruction of homes and villages, the rape and sexual assault of both civilians and US military women - and displayed photos and video footage to back up their claims. The event was titled "Winter Soldier," harkening back to the 1971 Winter Soldier Investigation, in which veterans gathered in Detroit to give testimony about war crimes they had committed or witnessed in Vietnam. Both Winter Soldiers zeroed in on the US military policy's devastating effects, straight from the mouths of those charged with carrying out that policy.
Full article excerpt can be found at: http://www.truthout.org/031709A
Yeah, and also I wonder how these soldiers would feel...sm
about the party who CLAIMS to support them but disrespect their families when they speak out. After all, did they not fight so freedoms like, freedom of speech, would be guaranteed?
I understand that families speaking out are not protected from retort but it is hypocritical to accuse liberals of not supporting the troops when you are the ones blasting fallen soldier's families. What do they just *support* conservative soldiers with conservative families???
I'm just sayin'
These are fallen soldiers not WTC victims
And the why is pretty clear. By the way, this was addressed to Liberals who definitely understand and appreciate the ***why***
Yet many soldiers also call the war immoral and
.
Young soldiers I know personally and on TV. Many
many of them felt very differently when they first went to war. After coming back they seem to come back with a very different view. Most of the soldiers I know think the war needs to end. I don't think most Americans think we should stop funding the war until the soldiers come home, and that's just it, many of us want them to come home! I watched a documentary on Showtime called Semper Fi, and it was a really moving account of a proud Marine's time in Iraq. I would definitely recommend watching it if you want to hear a first-hand account of how one patriotic soldier was disillusioned by the war and how he was given false information over and over again by his higher-ups. I don't claim to know the solution, and I know none of the candidates on either side have the perfect solution either, but I just feel that we are not making the progress we should be making, kids' mothers and fathers are dying every day in Iraq, and it makes me incredibly sad. Simple as that. I don't think we have any right to be there. I do believe we had a right to go to Afganistan, but not Iraq. That's just my feeling, and I really don't feel like getting into a huge debate about the war. I just want it to end.
Very sad. Our soldiers are giving their lives....sm
and they are coming home severly injured to less than adequate medical care after excellent care in the field, no psychological counseling, no support for their families, deplorable living conditions, and on and on. I believe this war is wrong but support the troops 100%. Disgraceful!
I fully support our soldiers -
As I have said before, I have a son who just graduated basic training last week, I was a soldier's wife for 20 years (one who served in the Gulf War during our marriage and is currently in Iraq now), and my father served in the Korean war, but I still think that the Iraq war is pointless and we do not need to be there. I don't think we should ever have been there, but definitely should be home now.
Even the Iraqi people don't want us to get out and come home and let them handle their own country.
Hating the war does not mean hating the soldiers - it means wanting the ones that are left to be home and alive and in one piece!
We have brought home 2 soldiers
recently to our town, unfortunately, it was too late for them.
good grief, forget the clothes, the woman charges everthing to Alaska, plane tickets, hotel rooms, l
x
Waiting to get blown up...from a soldiers mouth..sm
BAGHDAD, July 26 Army Staff Sgt. Jose Sixtos considered the simple question about morale for more than an hour. But not until his convoy of armored Humvees had finally rumbled back into the Baghdad military base, and the soldiers emptied the ammunition from their machine guns, and passed off the bomb-detecting robot to another patrol, did he turn around in his seat and give his answer.
Think of what you hate most about your job. Then think of doing what you hate most for five straight hours, every single day, sometimes twice a day, in 120-degree heat, he said. Then ask how morale is.
Frustrated? You have no idea, he said.
As President Bush plans to deploy more troops in Baghdad, U.S. soldiers who have been patrolling the capital for months describe a deadly and infuriating mission in which the enemy is elusive and success hard to find. Each day, convoys of Humvees and Bradley Fighting Vehicles leave Forward Operating Base Falcon in southern Baghdad with the goal of stopping violence between warring Iraqi religious sects, training the Iraqi army and police to take over the duty, and reporting back on the availability of basic services for Iraqi civilians.
But some soldiers in the 2nd Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment, 1st Armored Division -- interviewed over four days on base and on patrols -- say they have grown increasingly disillusioned about their ability to quell the violence and their reason for fighting. The battalion of more than 750 people arrived in Baghdad from Kuwait in March, and since then, six soldiers have been killed and 21 wounded.
It sucks. Honestly, it just feels like we're driving around waiting to get blown up. That's the most honest answer I could give you, said Spec. Tim Ivey, 28, of San Antonio, a muscular former backup fullback for Baylor University. You lose a couple friends and it gets hard.
No one wants to be here, you know, no one is truly enthused about what we do, said Sgt. Christopher Dugger, the squad leader. We were excited, but then it just wears on you -- there's only so much you can take. Like me, personally, I want to fight in a war like World War II. I want to fight an enemy. And this, out here, he said, motioning around the scorched sand-and-gravel base, the rows of Humvees and barracks, toward the trash-strewn streets of Baghdad outside, there is no enemy, it's a faceless enemy. He's out there, but he's hiding.
We're trained as an Army to fight and destroy the enemy and then take over, added Dugger, 26, of
Reno, Nev. But I don't think we're trained enough to push along a country, and that's what we're actually doing out here.
It's frustrating, but we are definitely a help to these people, he said. I'm out here with the guys that I know so well, and I couldn't picture myself being anywhere else.
'Never-Ending Battle'
After a five-hour patrol on Saturday through southern Baghdad neighborhoods, soldiers from the 1st Platoon sat on wooden benches in an enclosed porch outside their barracks. Faces flushed and dirty from the grit and a beating sun, they smoked cigarettes and tossed them at a rusted can that said Butts.
The commanders in Baghdad and the Pentagon are looking at the big picture all the time, but for us, we don't see no big picture, it's just always another bomb out here, said Spec. Joshua Steffey, 24, of Asheville, N.C. The company's commanding officer, Capt. Douglas A. DiCenzo of Plymouth, N.H., and his gunner, Spec. Robert E. Blair of Ocala, Fla., were killed by a roadside bomb in May.
Steffey said he wished somebody would explain to us, 'Hey, this is what we're working for.' With a stream of expletives, he said he could not care less if Iraq's free or if they're a democracy.
I mean, if you compare the casualty count from this war to, say, World War II, you know obviously it doesn't even compare, Fulcher said. But World War II, the big picture was clear -- you know you're fighting because somebody was trying to take over the world, basically. This is like, what did we invade here for?
How did it become, 'Well, now we have to rebuild this place from the ground up'? Fulcher asked.
He kept talking. They say we're here and we've given them freedom, but really what is that? You know, what is freedom? You've got kids here who can't go to school. You've got people here who don't have jobs anymore. You've got people here who don't have power, he said. You know, so yeah, they've got freedom now, but when they didn't have freedom, everybody had a job.
Steffey got up to leave the porch and go to bed.
You know, the point is we've lost too many Americans here already, we're committed now. So whatever the [expletive] end-state is, whatever it is, we need to achieve it -- that way they didn't die for nothing, he said. We're far too deep in this now....
Yeah!! Tin Soldiers and Nixon coming...
Got to get down to it - get rid of the current regime!!!!
And where do these "fresh" soldiers exist? Appalachia?
You seem to forget some of our troops have served 5 tours.......Army personnel are committing suicide at an alarming rate.....there is no draft....the whole premise for the war on Iraq was based on deceit.....can't you dig up some other reason to hate Obama? Your arguments are becoming less and less convincing...even though they have been transparent BS from the get go, IMHO.
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