MTs make under $250K
Posted By: Plumbers are rich on 2008-10-16
In Reply to:
Just because plumbing seems like a crappy job, let's face it, I see those guys driving Jaguars where I live. They are expensive and make a lot. MTs work very hard for very little. Wise up people. Obama is our hope. All the BS about him being with terrorists is dangerous propaganda. That board who had Ayers and Obama on was a big Reagan supporter and actually the Anenbergs are McCain supporters so it's all crapola. Obama is a wonderful man and a smart man. McCain stutters and whistles through his teeth, clears his throat loudly. I thought he was rude in the debate. The losers usually feel desperate and he shows it.
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If you make less than $250K you get tax break nm
nomopopo
Holycrap! You make more than 250K a year!
How did you do that with MT jobs?
the $250K
it's the business making $250K, not the man. Big difference.
He later corrected to $250K
He knows the middle class. I'm sure you make under $250K so why are you splitting hairs?
He never said that he made over $250K
He said that he wanted to buy a business that he thought made over $250K. I thought that it was okay to have dreams. How do you know what his intentions are? Even if he were a plant--which I think is silly--he is a citizen and ultimately has a right to propose a hypothetical question to someone asking for his vote to be the leader of our country. If he is attacked in this manner, should we not all fear what will happen if we say anything bad about Obama or ask a question that makes him look bad once he is--if he is--elected?
they changed that $250K...
Now they're saying more like $200K and going lower. And let's just face it. 20 bucks or $200K, everybody is gonna pay more taxes.
I understand the payroll tax on only over $250K....sm
I understand I won't pay more payroll tax and income tax at our low income, but it's the property taxes, fuel taxes, sales taxes, and capital gains taxes that are going to go up too, and being landowners and ranchers raising livestock, those taxes affect us big time and just add to the cost of our business, which already is hard to make a profit on.
I know it's hard for people whose income is from a job where you go to work and bring home a paycheck and taxes are simple to understand. But running a business isn't just about how much comes out of your paycheck for payroll tax and what you pay for income tax once a year. These corporate taxes he's talking about are going to affect so many small businesses because most of them make between $500,000-$1,000,000 a year, and increasing their tax rates is going to kill them. It's going to cause them to lay off employees, raise their prices, or simply close their doors.
I have several family members with mom-and-pop business in small towns from a beauty salon to a restaurant and a small computer fix-it business and they will really be hurt by this. They can't raise their prices because people in their small town can't afford to pay higher prices.
There are a lot of big farmers in our area who easily make over $250,000 a year, but what people don't realize is that probably 90-95% of what they sell their crops for has to go into planting and harvesting those crops and they have little to actually live on to pay their heating and food bills, etc., when it's all said and done, so where are they going to come up with the extra tax money?
By sticking it to the big corporate business, there's going to be a lot of collateral damage in the wake and those are going to be the small to mid-sized business of our friends and family. They need to raise the amount to 1-2 million or something because this is going to kill small town main street. JMHO
Oh, and BTW, $250K is not wealthy businesses
They're middle of the road, just making it businesses. They don't employ 3000 people like big business and they will be hurt the most. Big business will pass the tax increase onto the taxpayers. They'll be able to find loopholes with their 30+ laywers (exageration) who are paid to do that.
Wake up and take the blinders off!
Sorry Sam, but the Bush cuts were only for those over $250K nm
not us peons
It was $250K including a business....
and $250K for a business is nothing. and since when is rich a bad word. Only when someone is jealous.
Not unless I am making over 250K and that's not happening. nm
.
I never said I made $250K a year... where did you get that from my post?...sm
Actually, I work one full-time MT job and a part-time general transcription off and on. I make less than $38,000 a year. My husband is self-employed (we own a ranch) and everything we make from the sale of our livestock and grains has to go back into the operation of the ranch for property taxes, insurance, feed, equipment, repairs, so at best, we break even, and even that doesn't happen often. So we basically live on what I make as an MT, which is less than $38,000 a year.
Yes, it can be done. We do not apply for, nor take any of the government subsidies. We've worked hard and scrimped and saved, and have also sold aluminum cans to help with extra cash coming in, etc. I've always shopped thrift shops for clothes for us and the kids, I've never bought new furniture, have no china or crystal, and the only jewelry I've ever owned was my wedding ring, so couldn't fall back on having the option of selling things such as these to help out.
We've actually been rather comfortable with this and have always felt like we weren't missing out on anything by living a very simple and quiet life. But now I'm afraid we're going to lose what we've worked so hard for because we can't afford any more taxes to pay for those who won't work hard.
I could go on disability due to some physical problems and inability to do probably 99% of jobs out there, but my physical disability doesn't keep me from doing MT work, and I can make a decent living doing that, so why not? If at some point in my life something happens that I can no longer do MT, then I'll have no choice but go on disability because I can't stand/walk/move around in order to get most other jobs out there, but for now I have a choice to work doing something I can do, and I choose to do that.
Most people I know on disability have other skills and could be doing other jobs, but they'd rather take the label of disabled and never work again. I choose to work at what I can do until I can't do it anymore.
I know one gal who was on disability and was offered a great job that paid over $2000 a month, but she would lose her disability, so didn't take the job... when I asked her how much her disability was, it was only $1300 a month! Duh... And the thing is, she would be great in that position and would have been a wonderful asset to the community doing that job. Just didn't make sense to me.
I feel for your situation and I don't think that things like your disabled child being on SSI or whatever is ''on the dole'' because those are exactly the people we as fellow Americans need to be helping. I'm sorry for your health situation and that is most tragic as it can happen to anyone.
The people I'm talking about are the ones who have no major health problems, no job, but could get a job if they wanted to, but welfare pays better, so they don't. My daughter works in a field where she sees daily where parents are dropping kids off at a daycare which is paid for through the social services office, and they go sit in the casino and gamble and smoke cigarettes. How much is a pack of smokes these days, $5? That's $150 a month that could pay for heating your house, putting food on your table, etc., but they don't need the money for those things because they are on programs to get those paid for too.
I'm not pointing a finger at you or people who have real problems and can't work, it's the abusers of the system that I'm upset about. I know of one couple who just a few years ago traveled on a vacation to Tokyo and got to leave their five adopted children with a foster care service absolutely free. This woman used to complain that she only got 15 hours a week of ''respite'' babysitting service.... I raised my kids and probably never had 15 hours total away from them in all the years they grew up as I didn't have family around where I lived and couldn't afford a babysitter. This particular family drives new vehicles, has memberships to clubs, eat out all the time as it's too hard for the mom to cook for so many people, etc., and they have no jobs or any other income. How do they do that?
Again, I'm just saying, we have always made as much as we could and spent as little as we could get by with and were perfectly happy that it balanced out enough that we could live on our own without having to take any freebies from anybody, and if we have to pay more taxes in the future, that balance is going to be upset, and I don't want to lose what we've worked so hard for.
I don't know which candidate is going to be able to do anything about our healthcare situation, but I believe your medical situation is a prime example of how the messed up healthcare industry is bringing decent people down and something needs to be done about it... But I can't afford my own medical care, how can you expect me to pay for everyone else's?
I wouldn't mind making 250K and paying
25% in taxes....
Bidens words - no longer $250K - Now $150K (nm)
x
"Senator Obama's Four Tax Increases for People Earning Under $250k"...
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/senator_obamas_four_tax_increa.html
I confess. Senator Obama's two tax promises: to limit tax increases to only those making over $250,000 a year, and to not raise taxes on 95% of "working Americans," intrigued me. As a hard-working small business owner, over the past ten years I've earned from $50,000 to $100,000 per year. If Senator Obama is shooting straight with us, under his presidency I could look forward to paying no additional Federal taxes -- I might even get a break -- and as I struggle to support a family and pay for two boys in college, a reliable tax freeze is nearly as welcome as further tax cuts.
However, Senator Obama's dual claims seemed implausible, especially when it came to my Federal income taxes. Those implausible promises made me look at what I'd been paying before President Bush's 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, as well as what I paid after those tax cuts became law. I chose the 2000 tax tables as my baseline -- they reflect the tax rates that Senator Obama will restore by letting the "Bush Tax Cuts" lapse. I wanted to see what that meant from my tax bill.
I've worked as the state level media and strategy director on three Presidential election campaigns -- I know how "promises" work -- so I analyzed Senator Obama's promises by looking for loopholes.
The first loophole was easy to find: Senator Obama doesn't "count" allowing the Bush tax cuts to lapse as a tax increase. Unless the cuts are re-enacted, rates will automatically return to the 2000 level. Senator Obama claims that letting a tax cut lapse -- allowing the rates to return to a higher levels -- is not actually a "tax increase." It's just the lapsing of a tax cut.
See the difference?
Neither do I.
When those cuts lapse, my taxes are going up -- a lot -- but by parsing words, Senator Obama justifies his claim that he won't actively raise taxes on 95 percent of working Americans, even while he's passively allowing tax rates to go up for 100% of Americans who actually pay Federal income taxes.
Making this personal, my Federal Income Tax will increase by $3,824 when those tax cuts lapse. That not-insignificant sum would cover a couple of house payments or help my two boys through another month or two of college.
No matter what Senator Obama calls it, requiring us to pay more taxes amounts to a tax increase. This got me wondering what other Americans will have to pay when the tax cuts lapse.
For a married family, filing jointly and earning $75,000 a year, this increase will be $3,074. For those making just $50,000, this increase will be $1,512. Despite Senator Obama's claim, even struggling American families making just $25,000 a year will see a tax increase -- they'll pay $715 more in 2010 than they did in 2007. Across the board, when the tax cuts lapse, working Americans will see significant increases in their taxes, even if their household income is as low as $25,000. See the tables at the end of this article.
Check this for yourself. Go to http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/ and pull up the 1040 instructions for 2000 and 2007 and go to the tax tables. Based on your 2007 income, check your taxes rates for 2000 and 2007, and apply them to your taxable income for 2007. In 2000 -- Senator Obama's benchmark year -- you would have paid significantly more taxes for the income you earned in 2007. The Bush Tax Cuts, which Senator Obama has said he will allow to lapse, saved you money, and without those cuts, your taxes will go back up to the 2000 level. Senator Obama doesn't call it a "tax increase," but your taxes under "President" Obama will increase -- significantly.
Senator Obama is willfully deceiving you and me when he says that no one making under $250,000 will see an increase in their taxes. If I were keeping score, I'd call that Tax Lie #1.
The next loophole involves the payroll tax that you pay to support the Social Security system. Currently, there is an inflation-adjusted cap, and according to the non-profit Tax Foundation, in 2006 -- the most recent year for which tax data is available -- only the first $94,700 of an unmarried individual's earnings were subject to the 12.4 percent payroll tax. However, Senator Obama has proposed lifting that cap, adding an additional 12.4 percent tax on every dollar earned above that cap -- and in spite of his promise, impacting all those who earn between $94,700 and $249,999.
By doing this, he plans to raise an additional $1 trillion dollars (another $662.50 out of my pocket -- and how much out of yours?) to help fund Social Security. Half of this tax would be paid by employees and half by employers -- but employers will either cut the payroll or pass along this tax to their customers through higher prices. Either way, some individual will pay the price for the employer's share of the tax increase.
However, when challenged to explain how he could eliminate the cap AND not raise taxes on Americans earning under $250,000, Senator Obama suggested on his website that he "might" create a "donut" -- an exemption from this payroll tax for wages between $94,700 and $250,000. But that donut would mean he couldn't raise anywhere near that $1 trillion dollars for Social Security. When this was pointed out, Senator Obama's "donut plan" was quietly removed from his website.
This "explanation" sounds like another one of those loopholes. If I were keeping score, I'd call this Tax Lie #2.
(updated) Senator Obama has also said that he will raise capital gains taxes from 15 percent to 20 percent. He says he's aiming at "fat cats" who make above $250,000. However, while only 1 percent of Americans make a quarter-million dollars, roughly 50 percent of all Americans own stock – and while investments that are through IRAs, 401Ks and in pension plans are not subject to capital gains, those stocks in personal portfolios are subject to capital gains, no matter what the owner’s income is. However, according to the US Congress’s Joint Economic Committee Study, “Recent data released by the Federal Reserve shows that nearly half of all U.S. households are stockholders. In the last decade alone, the number of stockholders has jumped by over fifty percent.” This is clear – a significant number of all Americans who earn well under $250,000 a year will feel this rise in their capital gains taxes.
Under "President" Obama, if you sell off stock and earn a $100,000 gain -- perhaps to help put your children through college -- instead of paying $15,000 in capital gains taxes today, you'll pay $20,000 under Obama's plan. That's a full one-third more, and it applies no matter how much you earn.
No question -- for about 50 percent of all Americans, this is Tax Lie #3.
Finally, Senator Obama has promised to raise taxes on businesses -- and to raise taxes a lot on oil companies. I still remember Econ-101 -- and I own a small business. From both theory and practice, I know what businesses do when taxes are raised. Corporations don't "pay" taxes -- they collect taxes from customers and pass them along to the government. When you buy a hot dog from a 7/11, you can see the clerk add the sales tax, but when a corporation's own taxes go up, you don't see it -- its automatic -- but they do the same thing. They build this tax into their product's price. Senator Obama knows this. He knows that even people who earn less than $250,000 will pay higher prices -- those pass-through taxes -- when corporate taxes go up.
No question: this is Tax Lie #4.
There's not a politician alive who hasn't be caught telling some minor truth-bender. However, when it comes to raising taxes, there are no small lies. When George H.W. Bush's "Read my lips -- no new taxes" proved false, he lost the support of his base -- and ultimately lost his re-election bid.
This year, however, we don't have to wait for the proof: Senator Obama has already promised to raise taxes, and we can believe him. However, while making that promise, he's also lied, in at least four significant ways, about who will pay those taxes. If Senator Obama becomes President Obama, when the tax man comes calling, we will all pay the price. And that's the truth.
Tax Rates - and the Obama Increase - $50,000/year Taxable Income
|
2000 Tax Tables
|
2003 Tax Tables
|
2004 Tax Tables
|
2010 Tax Tables - (Bush Tax Cuts have Expired)
|
Increase with Obama Tax Increase*
|
Taxable Income
|
$50,000
|
$50,000
|
$50,000
|
$50,000
|
$50,000
|
Tax: Single
|
$10,581
|
$9,304
|
$9,231
|
$10,581
|
$1,350
|
Tax: Married - Filing Joint
|
$8,293
|
$6,796
|
$6,781
|
$8,293
|
$1,512
|
Tax: Married - Filing Separate
|
$11,143
|
$9,304
|
$9,231
|
$11,143
|
$1,912
|
Tax: Head of Household
|
$9,424
|
$8,189
|
$8,094
|
$9,424
|
$1,330
|
Tax Rates - and the Obama Increase - $75,000/year Taxable Income
|
2000 Tax Tables
|
2003 Tax Tables
|
2004 Tax Tables
|
2010 Tax Tables - (Bush Tax Cuts have Expired)
|
Increase with Obama Tax Increase*
|
Taxable Income
|
$75,000
|
$75,000
|
$75,000
|
$75,000
|
$75,000
|
Tax: Single
|
$17,923
|
$15,739
|
$15,620
|
$17,923
|
$2,303
|
Tax: Married - Filing Joint
|
$15,293
|
$12,364
|
$12,219
|
$15,293
|
$3,074
|
Tax: Married - Filing Separate
|
$18,803
|
$16,083
|
$15,972
|
$18,803
|
$2,831
|
Tax: Head of Household
|
$16,424
|
$14,439
|
$14,344
|
$16,424
|
$2,080
|
Tax Rates - and the Obama Increase - $100,000/year Taxable Income
|
2000 Tax Tables
|
2003 Tax Tables
|
2004 Tax Tables
|
2010 Tax Tables - (Bush Tax Cuts have Expired)
|
Increase with Obama Tax Increase*
|
Taxable Income
|
$100,000
|
$100,000
|
$100,000
|
$100,000
|
$100,000
|
Tax: Single
|
$25,673
|
$22,739
|
$22,620
|
$25,673
|
$3,053
|
Tax: Married - Filing Joint
|
$22,293
|
$18,614
|
$18,469
|
$22,293
|
$3,824
|
Tax: Married - Filing Separate
|
$27,515
|
$23,715
|
$23,504
|
$27,515
|
$4,011
|
Tax: Head of Household
|
$23,699
|
$20,741
|
$20,594
|
$23,699
|
$3,015
|
* When "President" Obama allows President Bush's tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 to expire, this will amount to a DE facto tax increase
NOBODY can make Saddam look good. But Bush seems to be the ONLY one who can make him look less
If you can't make abortion illegal, just make it impossible (sm)
That's right, Bush is still alive and well. Check this out.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#28024676
Yeah, I know it's MSNBC, but how many other people are doing a lame duck watch?
Just because you make a statement does not make it true...
.
Those who make you believe absurdities can make
Perhaps we can make a
between lying because he was a husband caught with a bimbo and lying to even the score with Wilson who knew of the intelligence manipulation for going to war and jeopardizing national security issues. You really don't see the difference here? If Hillary can stand her husband for being a cad, that's hers and Bill's business, not mine. Whereas this administration has lied about Iraq. Clinton lied--nobody died. Bush lied--2000+ died, not to mention the *collateral damage* of innocent Iraqis as pointed out by Democrat above. And you don't see the difference?!
This is what I make of it...sm
Supposedly if the insurgents lay down their arms and come over to the good side they will be allowed amnesty. Info leaked from Iraqi prime minister, al-Maliki, office that he was considering giving amnesty to insurgents and terrorist who have not killed Iraqi citizens. His office later added US soldiers into the equation.
Supporters of said amnesty believe it will lead to further isolating the *bad* terrorist and be inclusive of the *good* terrorist, allowing them become a functioning part of the new Iraq. Bring them over to the good side so to speak.
We can't make it here.
http://sheergoldenhooks.blogspot.com/2006/05/james-mcmurtry-we-cant-make-it-here.htm
don't mean to make any
one more nervous, but visualize this scenario, McCain falls down and breaks a hip. The vice president who has stated "I have not thought much about foreign policy" (despite having HER OWN SON going to Iraq soon) has to make a crucial decision that does not involve a rogue moose, her brother-in-law's behavior, or what to wear at a beauty pageant. Scary. Since she has not thought much about foreign policy, what group of Washington people are going to be instructing her on foreign policy soon? The Karl Rove group who is advising them on all issues. If you have enjoyed the last 8 years, you're gonna l-o-v-e the next 4 if McCain wins.
Exactly. And the DNC will make him pay for it, too.
Sadly.
You have to make up your own
mind. If you are curous as to what he studied, you can look that up. Why ask some stranger to get that info for you? He was a constitutional law professor, but as for specific classes, I don't know. I like him for his ideas, his honesty, his humor, his obvious love for his family, his unique time spent in both the black and white communities. His past has been thoroughly reviewed and shows only integrity. The fact that he is attacked only for people he has known actually shows me that he has an immaculate record. I don't know many who could stand up to that kind of scrutiny. I think he is a once-in-a-lifetime leader - he has the ability to inspire and the humbleness to listen to different views about issues along with a brillant intellect. His life shows his principals and I can find not one false note. That is my opinion of him. I am sure to be attacked over silly stuff for this post, but I can give it right back, so that's okay.
Make that 15
15. GLOBAL WARMING: Biden said that he knows what is causing global warming when in fact, even the best scientists in the country can't agree on what is causing global warming.
Does that make 2 now?
.
Now, whatever would make YOU
that???
I want him to make sure that the
US is the leader in development of alternative energy sources. This would solve so many problems in one fell swoop: Creating new industries thereby creating thousands of new jobs, address the global warming issue, helping us move away from our addiction to fossil fuels and foreign oil. If the US would come out as a leader in this, then many other nations would follow. He also stated that our infrastructure was in sore need of updating, that our power grid in this country is one of our major weaknesses making us more vulnerable to terrorist attacks. I have never heard anyone else address this issue. Makes so much sense!
Huh. That does make me wonder.
I know that if I was making it big my parents wouldn't be living in a double wide and my dad's house would have the improvements that it needs. I mean I wouldn't pay there way for everything but I'd make sure they had a decent place to live and weren't struggling. That's just what families do.
And what does that make you?
Rah, Rah, Rah, Yes we can, Change, Change, Change, Blah, Blah, Blah
Then that would make him.........sm
half American. And disqualified from serving for POTUS!
What is ridiculous is that you (collectively speaking to all libs) cannot understand that he is a FRAUD! He does not meet the qualifications, plain and simple. It would be the same thing if he were 38 years old....he would be disqualified on age.
I will say this, and you can call me a tin-hatter if you want, but IF the SC upholds the lower courts' decisions and allows Obama be POTUS, then we might as well chunk the whole Constitution out the window because the rest of it will be meaningless. If those judges let this go through, it will only further demonstrate how this election was orchestrated from the beginning....or even before the beginning.
Make that 6.8%.
x
It does make you wonder whose
butt the big liberal news is trying to kiss today. Those numbers are continually tossed around and no one bothers to check the facts. A neighbor who worked for GM for 40 years does get pension and healthcare benefits, etc., but the average worker now is making roughly $40/hour, which would include their benefits package as well. Of course, that is still great pay and is what many do not realize is actually what keeps the middle class in this country going.
I too was surprised they are going on and on about what the 3 big auto execs are using for transportation to get to the hearings considering you didn't hear a bunch of hooplah about what the AIG execs were skirting around the countryside in. Strange no liberal media went on and on and on about what they drove, what style they traveled in, etc., so it becomes very clear to me who the brown nosers are.
Really make you wonder
I haven't read the article but will. My take on the global warming conspiracy....someone sure is profiting from it. I won't say his name but his initials begin with AG (if you couldn't guess already).
All I know is I'm not about to have some energy hog riding around in a motorcade of SUV's (with one whole SUV just for his luggage), using however much energy, fuel, etc he wants and polluting the planet big time to tell me how I need to live.
There is a natural warming of the planet. It's happening with other planets too. Don't tell me people actually believe it's the earthlings fault for the warming of other planets too.
Lots of money to be had in this subject, but nothing has been proven yet. Especially since we all know the charts that AG uses to try to prove a point are not correct. Sorry but I'll listen to the scientists with years of knowledge and studying on the subject, not someone who is blowing off hot steam to get rich off of this scheme of his.
Oh yes! Make sure your have on your top hot, too!
;-) LOL!!
make too much?? I'm an MT!
Not likely I make too much as I am an MT!! Don't know any MTs in the $250K bracket, do you? If you do, I want to work where they do!!
So that would make
baby killers extremists. Glad you cleared that up. ;-)
This make me so angry!
As Karl Rove himself said, Wilson's wife was "fair game."
I've said before that it's not only Valerie Plame who he endangered, but everyone who has worked with her during her work with WMDs. We're in the middle of a WAR, but this "good ol' boy" administration doesn't care what they do or don't do in that respect. They don't care whose lives they endanger. They don't THANK these people for their service and for putting their lives in danger to try to make this country a better place. No, instead they see a man who has dared to disagree with King George, and they target his wife for potential danger, to get even with her husband for disagreeing with Almighty George Dumbya Bush. They act like a redneck version of the Mafia. The CIA deserve more respect than this administration gives it, but this administration doesn't think much of respect. Bush blatantly doesn't care who in the world respects us, and he offers no respect to anyone else in this world. He is perfect, and he makes no mistakes, and if you don't believe me, just ask him or one of his aids or one of his flunkies on this board. They'll all tell you how perfect he is.
I've seen Larry Johnson on different programs, and the views he expressed in this letter absolutely reflect what he said on TV. How in the world could any CIA source trust the CIA to protect his or her identity when the president of this country makes it clear that everything is "fair" in this good ol' boy Mafia-type game played in Washington.
Rove definitely should have his security clearance yanked. He clearly doesn't deserve it. Neither does Bush.
They don't make threats. SM
What's wrong with having guns? They aren't wave them around. They are proudly displaying them. I guess it's more of a man thing. We have lots of guns but I am not really into them. I don't care if someone else is though. And that has nothing to do with war. This is a typical liberal response to someone upholding their rights under the Constitution. Silence the dissenters, take away the guns, remove all Christian religion from sight. It's pretty obvious by your post that is what is going on with you. It's called ignorance.
Yes, anything to make an argument...sm
No pun intended to reality check, but yes anything can turn into an argument. Yep.
There is NO CONTEXT that can make it better.
You all keep saying taken out of context but you don't offer one iota of evidence to show this makes a bit a difference, or say why. Anytime someone is quoted the words are taken out of context.
Why don't you put your point on the line and explain why it makes a difference in this case?
Make that "staged"..nm
oops
I don't care either way. Don't try and make this something it isn't. nm
I didn't make fun of anyone.
This issue is not funny. It could be deadly for us all. There are certain Christians who will defend Israel no matter what Israel does. I think a legitimate question is why. Jewish people obviously do not accept Jesus Christ as their savior. So why do some Christians have such undying loyalty to these people? Is it because they truly put them on a pedestal (again, if so, why?), or is it because of the real estate inhabited by Israel, which just happens to contain the holiest of cities? Or is it because the Bible says they must not turn their back on Israel or they won't get into heaven? Some of them are very excited about the prospect of the Rapture. Coincidentally, these people also represent Bush's base. Do they believe the Jews are worthy of heaven only if they convert to a certain form of Christianity? And what happened to Pat Robertson's theme park plans in Israel, and why did it happen? How does Jerry Fallwell feel about Jews' entrance into heaven? And can't anyone else see how this could be interpreted as the Jewish religion being inferior to the views of certain Christians?
I personally feel the Jews are entitled to gain entrance to heaven as much as anyone else of any other religion is. Why don't you?
These people don't represent all Christians, as Starcat pointed out in this thread. I can't help but find it fascinating that when either Israel or the concept of loyalty to Israel is brought up, a nerve is struck, and attacks against posters asking the questions ensue, without any answers ever being provided to the questions that were asked.
This is not a religious forum, and religious comments really shouldn't be posted here. Unfortunately, we have a President who has mixed religion and politics so intrinsically during his administration that they can't be separated now.
I have full respect for anyone's religious beliefs, and what they believe is none of my business, but if the entire world is about to end because its end was assisted by those of a certain religion to self-fulfill a prophecy they and the American President believe, then it becomes my business, as well as the business of every person in the world who may be harmed as a result of the religious beliefs of some - not all or even the majority in the world.
I apologize if you feel I made fun of anyone's religion. That was not my goal. I admit that sometimes my words don't come out right and what are questions may seem like confrontations. I apologize for that.
doesn't make me look bad
duh
Just had one comment to make...
I agree that we should have stuck with Bin Laden until we caught him, but here is the thing. Bin Laden isn't doing the fighting. He is sending his people to do all the ugly work while he hides and is well protected. The only way for us to win the war on terrorism is if the people in these countries fight themselves against the terrorists. If they stand up and say....I've had enough.....it will be a lot harder for the terrorists to do what they are doing. JMO though. We can't make them stand up to them though and I can't really blame them because I'd be terrified if I were them too, but that is the only way it will stop.
Let me make something clear.
I am African American. I have never seen Africa. The human race originated on the continent of Africa. Now, what do you consider yourself? You can call yourself whatever you want. We want to be known as African American.
Some of us have to make a living.
Got kids. Need to cook and clean and transcribe, balance the checkbook, pay bills, clip coupons and grocery shop, feed the kitties, watch news and fact check to stay informed. Chat room cat fights are low priority for me, especially with posters like yourself and sam, unlike those who stay ready to pounch 24/7.
Can we make her president?!!!
Does ot make him any less hateful.
nm
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