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Look where out-of-control capitalism got us.

Posted By: ! on 2008-09-30
In Reply to: Yes, but alas, socialism doesn't work that way....lol. - sam




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capitalism, this is greedy capitalism
xx
Conservatives are for control over their own children and less control by govt

you want it both ways, it is dem fault with control, and when they had no control
it was their fault as well. yes GB did not get anything done, no deregulation, no war, no shift of power to the corporations, nothing.

so you are saying he was utterly incompetent?
How about if some of us are using birth control to be responsible and control.......sm
the size of our families, as almost every family has to do? And believe me, I tried the "rhythm" method, and I have my beautiful son, Alex, as a response. And I adore him, and thankfully we found ways to afford him, care for him in every way, etc., but some sexual aides and birth control are actually used by Christian couples who have been married for 28 years, gong on 29 in May. sex is also important in a loving marriage, not just to "do whatever feels good." There is nothing shameful in married, committed sex.
Control? If you mean, control of putting our country
nm
socialism-capitalism
Libby, I have always believed in socialism..socialism and capitalism can work hand in  hand. Socialism has nothing to do with communism or dictatorship..it has to do with providing the life essentials to ALL people, shelter, food, health care, a job for all..respect and not poverty for all, oil to heat our homes in the winter so we dont freeze to death! For pete sake..It blows my mind that the richest country in the world allows some to die in the streets, homeless.  Families in the streets homeless..Those that want jobs cant find them or if they do, it is minimum wage..How the heck can ANYONE survive on minimum wage?  There are just too many capitalists who are making money off of the middle class and working poor and they have strong lobbyists and politicians being paid off to pass bills to help them and companies who no longer care about the workers..
Capitalism is okay for Obama, as that is how he....sm
made his own money and climbed up, not to mention amassed huge amounts of money for his campaign.


He just wants socialism for the rest of us peons, so he can have power.



Maybe this will help - From Capitalism to a Welfare State
COMMUNIST: A person who is regarded as supporting politically leftist or subversive causes.

CAPITALISM: An economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth. (This is one of the 'foundations of our economy' that McCain refers to and Obama mocks.)

SOCIALISM: The stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

COLLECTIVISM: The political principle of centralized social and economic control, esp. of all means of production.

COMMUNISM: A theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state. (Such as global redistribution of weath, and socialized medicine.)

WELFARE STATE: A state in which the welfare of the people in such matters as social security, health and education, housing, and working conditions is the responsibility of the government.

MARXISM: The system of economic and political thought developed by Karl Marx, along with Friedrich Engels, esp. the doctrine that the state throughout history has been a device for the exploitation of the masses by a dominant class, that class struggle has been the main agency of historical change, and that the capitalist system, containing from the first the seeds of its own decay, will inevitably, after the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat, be superseded by a socialist order and a classless society.

PROLETARIAT: The working class; the class of workers, esp. industrial wage earners, who do not possess capital or property and must sell their labor to survive.
Economics 101: Capitalism vs. Socialism

There are many different ideas or systems of how an economy should be run. The two most common are capitalism and socialism. They are very different in how they view who runs the economy. Most economies have ideas from both systems, but tend to be more of one than the other.


Capitalism is the economic system based on private or corporate ownership of, production and distribution of goods. It has always existed to some extent in all civilizations but was written about formally by Adam Smith in his book "The Wealth of Nations" in 1776. Capitalists favor a system of free enterprise which means the government should not interfere in the economy - that the laws of supply and demand will make sure that the ecnomy runs most efficiently in meeting people's needs. Capitalism is characterized by competition in which there is rivalry in supplying or getting an economic service or good. Sellers compete with other sellers, and buyers with other buyers. The buyers seek the best possible deal in purchasing goods and the sellers look to make the best possible sale allowing them the most profit.


Socialism is an economic theory or idea that states that the government or the state should be in charge of economic planning, production and distribution of goods. This contrasts with capitalism where free markets predonimate and property is privately owned. Socielism tends to favor cooperation whereas capitalism is characterized by competition.


The theories of socialism first arose in the late eighteenth century in response to the Industrial Revolution where factory owners were becoming wealthy and the workers impoverished. Thus, workers wanted a greater share in the wealth that factories were making. Later a form of socialism called communism sprang up based on the writings of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Communism advocates class struggle and revolution to establish a society of cooperation with strong government control. Communism predominated in the former Soviet Union and much of Eastern Europe at one time. Today it predominates in China and Cuba, but its influence has lessened.


http://www.mcwdn.org/ECONOMICS/CapSoc.html


What Government must do to save capitalism

What government must do to save capitalism





Special to Globe and Mail Update




From time to time in human history, there occur events of seismic significance, when one orthodoxy is overthrown and another takes its place. Today, the scale of the global financial crisis demands that we re-evaluate the economic policy and philosophy that brought us to this point.


George Soros has said that "the salient feature of the current financial crisis is that it was not caused by some external shock. ... The crisis was generated by the system itself." He is right. The current crisis is the culmination of a 30-year domination of economic policy by a free-market ideology that has been variously called neo-liberalism, economic liberalism or economic fundamentalism. The central thrust of this ideology has been that government activity should be constrained, and ultimately replaced, by market forces. In the past year, we have seen how unchecked market forces have brought capitalism to the precipice.


Instead of distributing risk throughout the world, the global financial system has intensified it. Neo-liberal orthodoxy held that global financial markets would ultimately self-correct - the invisible hand of unfettered market forces finding their own equilibrium. But as economist Joseph Stiglitz has caustically observed: "The reason that the invisible hand often seems invisible is that it is not there."


Just as it fell to Franklin Roosevelt to rebuild American capitalism after the Depression, and to the American Democrats, strongly influenced by John Maynard Keynes, to rebuild postwar domestic demand, to engineer the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe and to set in place the Bretton Woods system to govern international economic engagement, so it falls to a new generation to reflect on and rebuild our national and international economic systems.



If centrist governments are to save capitalism, they must face three challenges. First is to use the agency of the state to reconstitute properly regulated markets and to rebuild domestic and global demand. With the demise of neo-liberalism, the role of the state has once more been recognized as fundamental. The state has been the primary actor in responding to three clear areas of the current crisis: in rescuing the private financial system from collapse; in providing direct stimulus to the real economy because of the collapse in private demand; and in the design of a national and global regulatory regime in which government has ultimate responsibility to determine and enforce the rules of the system.


The second challenge for social democrats is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. As the global financial crisis unfolds and the hard impact on jobs is felt by families across the world, the pressure will be great to retreat to some model of an all-providing state and to abandon altogether the cause of open, competitive markets both at home and abroad. Protectionism has already begun to make itself felt, albeit in softer and more subtle forms than the crudity of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930. Soft or hard, protectionism is a surefire way of turning recession into depression, as it exacerbates the collapse in global demand. Social democracy's continuing philosophical claim to political legitimacy is its capacity to balance the private and the public, profit and wages, the market and the state. That philosophy once again speaks with clarity and cogency to the challenges of our time.


A further challenge for governments in dealing with the current crisis is its almost unprecedented global dimensions. Governments must craft consistent global financial regulations to prevent a race to the bottom, where capital leaks out to the areas of the global economy with the weakest regulation. We must establish stronger global disclosure standards for systemically important financial institutions. We must also build stronger supervisory frameworks to provide incentives for more responsible corporate conduct, including executive remuneration.


The world has turned to co-ordinated governmental action through the Group of 20: to help provide immediate liquidity to the global financial system; to co-ordinate sufficient fiscal stimulus to respond to the growth gap arising from the global recession; to redesign global regulatory rules for the future; to reform the existing global public institutions - especially the International Monetary Fund - to provide them with the powers and resources necessary for the demands of the 21st century.


The IMF's governance arrangements must be reformed. It is only reasonable that, if we expect fast-growing developing economies such as that of China to make a greater contribution to multilateral institutions such as the IMF, they should also gain a stronger decision-making voice in these forums.


The longer-term challenge for governments is to address the imbalances that have helped to destabilize the global economy in the past decade: in particular, the imbalances between large surplus economies such as that of China, Japan and the oil-exporting nations, and large debtor nations such as America.


The magnitude of the crisis and its impact across the world means that minor tweakings of long-established orthodoxies will not do. Two unassailable truths have already been established: that financial markets are not always self-correcting or self-regulating, and that government can never abdicate responsibility for maintaining economic stability.


For governments, it is critical that we get it right - not just to save the system of open markets from self-destruction, but also to rebuild confidence in properly regulated markets, so as to prevent extreme reactions from the far left or the far right taking hold.


Governments must get it right because the stakes are so high: There are the economic and social costs of long-term unemployment; poverty once again expanding its grim reach across the developing world; and the impact on long-term power structures within the existing international political and strategic order. Success is not optional. Too much now rides on our ability to prevail.


Capitalism is when private owners run businesses
xx
For those that understand capitalism and a FREE society...
nm
and he wants to control it all.....
the banks, the insurance industry, the automotive industry, the health care industry, the finance sector, and our entire lives. You call that strength. I call that dictatorship.
Gun Control
John Lott, Jr., a Yale social economist, did the largest study on gun control laws covering all 3000 counties in the US. His findings astounded the author himself, who had reviewed many other studies - all of which had been extremely small - that suggested guns don't deter crime.

The title of Lott's published study tells his findings in a nutshell: "More Guns, Less Crime". It's an exhaustive book filled with much more data than most of us would ever care to see, but the findings were unequivocal: the more guns there are in the hands of law-abiding citizens, the lower the rate of gun crimes committed against them.

On the strength of what he found, Lott, who had never even owned a gun or fired one except one time at a summer youth camp - purchased a handgun and got a license to carry it. Consequently, the gun-banning crazies who howled bloody murder at his research (but who haven't been able to mount a single credible counterargument in the intervening years) called him a "gun nut".
Pro birth control....s/m
I'm definitely not pro abortion, but am pro choice in, what should be, the rare event of unexpected pregnancy, and in that case I think that the woman herself should be the one to decide whether to terminate the pregnancy or not, and if so, it should remain a safe, and legal option.  It's an extremely emotional, and difficult decision for most women to have to make in that situation.. I did a quick look and see that the abortion rate in the US has declined from 1996 to 2002. I'm going to look for statistics from 2002 to the present when I have more time. I think the key in the main is stressing birth control measures, and also making those measures affordable to all women across all socio-economic groups.
Birth control is....
used to prevent pregnancy......not kill an innocent child AFTER it is conceived.   BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!  How do you people sleep at night?
You are correct...he wants to control...
the situation, questions asked, etc, because he knows he couldn't come up with any anwers on the fly without knowledge of them first. He told Bill O to his face after one of the debates that he would come on his show after the primaries...hmm, so much for Michelle stating in her speech that he was a man of his word. Anyone who can't answer the tough questions without being prepped and coddled is not ready to lead this country.
Yes indeed. Lot of RNC damage control going on.

How do the Pubs turn Gustav into a political advantage?  We already see them shameless working all the angles and considering their options, but let's face it.  They need all the help they can get now that Gustav has blow the wind out of the sails of their copy-cat showcase celebrity VP pick.  It's just as well.  A 48-hour ride on that boat was just about all the excitement JM could stand at one time.   


Any political capital the RNC is trying to get out of Gustav is doomed to fail.  What's a party to do?  The collective sigh of relief they all are breathing over the Bush and Cheney speech cancellations to go put on their compassionate conservative hats and polish up their leadership image is producing wind gusts up to a Category 10.  How can they celebrate the debut of their golden girl on a split screen they share with the drowning of New Orleans Part II and hold their collective breaths at the same time and pray those levies don't break again?  One would think they would have the sense to postpone the event until all the ruckus dies down, but if they did that, people might actually start expecting the Prez and VP to deliver their speeches again.  They can't have that, now can they? 


The dems will not be too worried about Bush/Cheney speech cancellations one way or the other.  The RNC opening night and the leadership image role down south are equal opportunities for Bush and Cheney to show their true colors and there is no way the media is going to be polite enough not to be reminding us all about the screw ups last time around, no matter how presidential they try to appear.  It's a lose/lose situation no matter how you look at it.   


Must have skipped over all the sam control,
nm
As far as birth control....I have not seen anything about...
people wanting to remove birth control. Just because an individual elects not to use it does not mean they do not want anyone else to have access. With this permissive society liberals have created there is really no choice but to provide it.

Yes, there are natural causes for miscarriage. That is leaving it up to God. For us to put the life of an innocent child totally in the hands of someone else to choose whether it lives or dies, just as a personal choice, I believe is wrong. Just as those in these orphanges murdered children...it is murder. Killing an innocent for no reason other than "oops" is wrong.

What overturning Roe vs. wade would do is put it back in the hands of legislators who, by the constitution, are the only ones who can enact laws. The Supreme Court should not be enacting laws. They are to interpret...not legislate. I believe it should be overturned because it is unconstitutional. Then put it to a state-by-state vote. Some states would outlaw abortion except in cases of rape, incest, or life of mother. Some would outlaw it, period. Some would allow it in all forms. But at least it would be the will of the people.

Why do you think congress has never tried to pass an abortion law? Even when the democrats had control? Even before Roe vs. Wade? The truth is in the pudding.
Republican control
Excuse me but aren't the House and the Senate Democrat controlled since 2006?  They haven't helped this country one bit since they took control, in fact it has gotten worse.  By your own reasoning you are wrong about why this country is in such bad shape, it's not the Republicans alone.  And the Democrafts do not concern themselves at all about the middle class, just the people who have no pride and can't get off their asses and work, only lip service in election years.  Heaven forbid the lazy class take on a part time job when things get rough.  I'm sick of carrying the lazy class on my back...
Hello...tightening gun control is not a ban.
out of hands of criminals and gun-free zones (that already exist, such as federal buildings, airports, etc) do not threaten your precious pistols. AK-47 assault rifles REALLY necessary for hunting and protection? If you are not a criminal, you have nothing to fear. For heaven's sake, ever hear of compromise?
Bush has no control over this. This is

Pelosi, Dodd, Frank, and Paulson's baby. They're the ones who calls the shots on how this money is to be given out and used. They were the ones with the first bright idea for this bailout.


Even yesterday, Frank decided he would give the automakers $25K with governments ownships of the automakers. Yet last night, I hear it's only a loan to them to be paid back. So, which is it?


By those organizations that want control.
*
Spending under control...huh?

Yeah.....an 825 billion dollar stimulus package that won't really work....sounds like spending is under control to me.  Holy crow people!  Nothing like adding that to our huge deficit now and how many days as he been in office?  Is that like a new record of making the deficit shoot up so fast within the first month of a presidency.  Impressive....NOT. 


Control of Congress???
If you don't know what you are talking about - maybe you should venture to a safer topic, like, I don't know, knitting? Bush vetoed and obstructed the Dems at every turn (do you read?). Just like right now - the pubs are obstructing and delaying at every turn. Same old games just a different President. Obama is getting a crash course in "Politics as Usual." He may have been woefully mistaken in believing the 2 parties could work together. Won't happen. The pubs will trumpet their BS and obstruct everything they can all in the name of trying to exert their power. They don't give a rats about what happens to the American people. They really don't. They want to keep big corporations and banks in power - not We The People. Do you really think they care if people stay in their houses or not? NO. The problem is all these banks with empty houses they can't sell. Gotta save the mortgage companies and Banks - screw the people. There will be some kind of bendover in the new mortgage contracts with lower interest - watch and see. WHAM! It'll hit those people right between the eyes just when they thought things were going good, that is, if the economy turns around - which I doubt. Not enough cooperation.
BTW, there are much better birth control
options than birth control pills. One of them IUDs, when those are in, there is nothing to 'forget' about them.
Gun Control Article

My, read nothing about it in our newspapers around here. Please pay attention to the paragraphs following these:


His feelings about House Bill 375 are the same, according to his Philadelphia office manager, Joe Evangelista.

Similar to House Bill 375, U.S. Rep. Bobby Rush of Illinois in January introduced Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009.


http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/234644


No. I just wish we could get some union control
nm
Did someone mention anger control....

Corporations control the media.sm
Wonder who controls the corporations? I do not watch mainstream television news because it is censored and compromised, so I could not tell if you if they are left-leaning or not. Republican/Democrat same thing to me - divide and conquer.
He looks a few questions away from losing control...nm

Nothing silly about population control.
BTW....we ARE animals.
Not everyone has the same access to birth control. sm
I guess you didn't watch 20/20 this past Friday night? You can view it on their website. Go to http://abcnews.go.com/2020 and click on Watch: Babies in Memphis

I think everyone who is interested in this current thread would find it interesting, whatever your opinion on abortion is. It was called "Babyland" because that's what the locals call the cemetary where all the premature babies who die are buried if their mother can't afford to bury them.

It was about how the poverty-striken areas in Memphis, TN have much greater rates of premature births and deaths of babies than the more affleunt areas. Why? Lots of reasons, but probably the main one is lack of money, which means lack of prenatal care. No insurance and no easy access to a free or low-cost clinic. Lack of education. The girl they profiled was 18 and pregnant, and they showed another girl who had gotten pregnant at 12 yrs old, now a mother at 13. I mean, yeah, a 12 y/o shouldn't be having sex - she's still a child, but how in the world would she have access to birth control? She wouldn't.

It showed how the closest clinic is only open during the day (and only 1/2 day on Sat., to cut costs). No evening or weekend hours, so what are you supposed to do, take time off work, which you can't afford, to go get birth control (or prenatal care, etc.) which you also can't afford? I mean to you or me it may seem like a no-brainer - if nothing else go to the drugstore and get a box of condoms for $10.00, or the Today sponge thingie, but maybe they don't even have an extra $10.00 (or the time and $ to take 2 buses to get to the drugstore?).

All I'm saying is, the situation is different for everyone. I've personally never had an easy time with any method of birth control I've tried, and it's a bit of a wonder to me that I've never had an unplanned pregnancy because of that. Maybe because of that, I try to be less judgmental of others. Oops, more to say but I've got to go...


Sam busy w/damage control this a,m.
nm
I disagree. Since the dems got control, nothing
x
40% (all individuals earing less than $57,400/yr) control
More than likely, that would include you, if you are an MT. Ask yourself this question. Do 40% of the population do less than 1% of the work? No? Then why do they control less than 1% of the wealth? This is about preventing the middle class from disappearing off the face of the nation. It's not welfare. It is about fair pay for fair work. MTs are constantly complaining about being paid what they are worth for the work they do. The relief they deserve will never come from the "right" side of pub. Don't you get that?
Birth control would have been nice.
.
I knew about birth control.
However, was I willing to go to my mom and ask her to put me on the pill.  I knew my mother would have suspected my sexual activity and I didn't want her to know.  Most teens also have the belief that "it won't happen to me."  Now that I'm older, I see how some of the decisions I made back when I was 17 were poor ones, but at that time I thought they were great ideas.  Do I blame my mom and dad for the bad decisions I made back then....no.  Those were my decisions, my choices, and I had to deal with the consequences. 
She supports birth control and ..

supports abstinence-only education in schools, but she has also said she does not support tax payer dollars to distribute birth control in schools. She is a member of Feminists for Life, which is an pro-life group.

Feminist for Life is a pro-life group that has had its positions distorted to show that they are against birth control. Palin critics (including many in the media) have cherry picked in order to smear Gov. Palin.


Dems are in control in Congress
If you're looking for someone to blame, you're going to have a short walk to the nearest mirror for voting those boys into power.

Out of control being the operative words....
said control denied JOhn McCain and republicans by democrats.
but Democrats control congress.
Did you miss that?
William Shatner on gun control sm
Short clip from the show Boston Legal on gun control. LMAO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AYG4y5et5g
so now abortion as population control...
lovely thought! As far as my daughter getting pregnant--there are options other than abortion. Plenty of people who want babies can't have them--or there is always the good old fashioned taking responsibility for your actions. I have one child that was a surprise and don't know what I would do without him. With my second "surprise" on the way, I am certain that I will never feel that keeping my baby was a mistake, but I am certain that I would have thought killing him was! The timing is bad, I was a little irresponsible, but babies have an uncanny way of making people happy. It seems to me that our world could use a little more of that.
No, not population control, Einstein. But in
an already overcrowded world, what sense does it make to bring an UNWANTED child into the world? Babies dont automatically make people happy when their birth is a mistake and it ruins their lives.
whose insurance does not pay for birth control?
Mine sure as heck does. It is much cheaper to prevent births than pay for them. It makes fiscal sense.
Yeah, and look at the democrats in control for
nm
I think McCain lost control....(sm)

or better yet, never had control.  I actually like McCain to a certain extent.  I don't like his policies, but I do like his ability to get some things done.  I think McCain's real pick for VP would have been Leiberman.  I think he knew he would have to run a *middle of the road* campaign after Bush, but I think he was overruled by the pub party.  This is evidenced by the fact that Palin seemed to be running a completely different campaign than McCain.  McCain also voiced disagreement with other activities such as robo-calls.  McCain has been on the ugly side of a campaign before, and I really didn't get the impression that he was happy with the way things were going.  This makes me think he had no control.


Who the master mind behind the Palin pick was, I don't know yet, but I'm sure it'll come out sooner or later.  Another possibility is that the pub party knew they couldn't win this election so they pretty much used McCain, and in the meantime tried to show some versatility by choosing Palin -- that didn't work out as planned I'm sure. 


Either way, I don't think McCain is at fault for the Palin pick.  A major concern during the election was that he had exhibited bad judgment by picking her.  I tend to believe that the real problem was that he didn't have any control of the situation and wouldn't have had control as pres. 


Dems never had control of congress.....
With Cheney's vote and the veto pen - but that's convenient to ignore, isn't it? All about family values? right? No child left behind? Sure, uh-huh. Talk about swallowing the Kool-Aid - all that Rovian campaigning propaganda brought Kool-Aid to new heights.
too bad i'm not the pres - i'm control freakish enough 4 it
:)