Like lack of a valid birth certificate and that he...sm
Posted By: You mean like the facts.... on 2009-05-08
In Reply to: That's a FACT, even though republicans aren't fond of FACTS. - LOL
would absolutely in no uncertain terms allow pork barrel projects? I could go on and on about the FACTS as the liberals see it, but by my dictionary - and without regard to news media or the channels thereof - these are NOT facts! Just wait - you'll find out for yourself. I'll be right here to tell you "I tried to tell you so!"
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Maybe she will when Obamarama produces a valid birth certificate. nm
nm
birth certificate
 As in the words of Archie Bunker from "All in the Family" to his TV wife Edith: "Stifle yourself...geeeez".
I think it is just like the birth certificate - it won't go away. nm
x
There is no proof. Birth certificate has been
The only proof you have is that you have no legitimate campaign strategy and your candidate's campaign is going down in flames over this relentless stupidity.
Obama birth certificate
I received an e-mail today that has been floating around. Any truth to Obama not releasing his birth certificate to prove he was actually born in this country? Any facts to back this up?
Maybe you still have your original birth certificate...sm
I sure didn't. When I went to get a passport I had to order a copy from the city where I was born. It was a photocopy. All birth certificate copies come with a seal for authenticity. There are no more "originals filed". Everything is computerized or on microfilm.
'vault' birth certificate
Oldtmer - thank you!!
Birth certificate authentification
Here's a link detailing how Obama's birth certificate has been investigated and why you need to drop this ridiculous charge that he's been perpetuating a lie for years.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
birth certificate nonsense
Personally, I like the way factcheck.org handled this: They went and looked at the birth certificate. Then they went and looked at the birth announcement in the newspaper from 1961. Now, admittedly, it's possible that Obama's disciples FLEW BACK IN TIME to plant the birth announcement so that their Chosen One could ascend to power. I think we do have to consider that option carefully, because it leads us to ask--what if NEXT they GO BACK IN TIME TO CREATE AN OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT-ELECT FOR *EVERY* ELECTION EVER HELD IN THE US????
Obama birth certificate. What you can do.
For those that feel strongly that Obama is ineligible to be the president due to unanswered questions regarding his birth certificate, there is something that you can do about it.
The key here is that you need to be very proactive. Posting about Obama's birth certificate on message boards, in emails and such will not result in him ultimately being unable to serve as president due to this very important issue.
Many here have written extensively about this issue, and seem quite knowlegable regarding the actual facts surrounding his birth certificate, and the fact that he, in reality, is legally disqualifed from serving as president.
The many posters here who are deeply concerned about this issue, need to take thiings a step further than merely posting about this.
Here is what you need to do. Make an appointment to consult with an attorney and state your concerns to said attorney. For a retainer fee the attorney will accept the case on your behalf. Retainer fees are not that high, usually for a case such as this the retainer fee would run a couple of thousand dollars, plus whatever hourly fee the attorney charges. The more people that take this proactive approach, the higher the likelihood that the case will be heard and ultimately Obama would be removed from office due to this birth certificate issue.
In the event that the case is heard and dismissed, the next step is to file an appeal. The retainer fees for an appeal run higher than the initial retainer fee, however again it is not that expensive, with the ballpark figure of approximately $5,000.plus whatever hourly fee your attorney charges, and here again the more people that do this the higher the liklihood of Obama being removed from office due to this so very important issue.
On December 5, 2008, this issue will be addressed by the Supreme Court and likely there will be no furtherance on this. As many of you already know, a federal judge dismissed this very important case, and the Supreme Court is likely to follow suit in this coverup regarding Obama and his birth certificate.
I urge all who post about this so often and feel very strongly about this issue to take action, retain an attorney and follow through with the case to its conclusion. In the end, with your collective efforts and knowlege about the real issues regarding Obama and the birth certificate, you will have prevented, or caused the removal of, a person from serving in the highest office in the nation who, in fact, is not legally qualified to serve in that capacity. In doing this you will have performed the ultimate act of patriotism.
Sometimes in life you have to put your money where your mouth is, and this is one of those times.
Obama's birth certificate
This issue is irrelevant at this point. Even if it can be proven that he was not born in the US, he has lived here most of his life, had an American mother, has an American wife and American kids, and has served in the US Senate, not to mention the fact that he won the presidential election by a landslide. If you think this issue will prevent Barack Obama from taking office or disqualify him from serving at some point, dream on.
Show us your birth certificate
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=90125
this is an outrage. citizens of this nation have demanded to see his birth records. he answers to us and he refuses to be accountable to us. i think that i should no longer be required to show mine. if he has that right, why don't I?
Can YOU produce your vault birth certificate?
McC camp people are, no wonder their campaign is doing down the drain...and no plumber on the face of the earth is going to be able to plunge it back to life.
No such thing as a "vault" birth certificate...sm
No paper certificates exist in most states any more. All are either on microfilm or computerized. The only hits you get on Google for vault birth certificate are in relation to Obama. Who coined the expression "vault" birth certificate? I sent for a copy of my birth certificate to get a US passport and received a photocopy with a raised seal. This is the standard now for proof of citizenship. There are no longer any birth certificates in "vaults" anymore, all is verified in cyberspace.
Yeah, now "where is that birth certificate anyway"
nm
Birth certificate issue still pending
It's good to know this is still pending.
Honor the constitution.
http://texashillblog.blogspot.com/2008/11/scotus-requires-obama-to-show-birth.html
some info on the birth certificate issue
The info in the posts below about the SCOTUS order for President-Elect Obama's birth certificate is somewhat misleading. Hopefully this will help to clarify. The article says the Supreme Court has ordered Obama to supply an original birth certificate by 12/1. In actuality, the December 1st deadline is the time by which the DNC must comply with Berg's request for certriorari.
A writ of certiorari is a writ, or order, sent from a higher court to a lower one which orders the lower court to turn over transcripts and documents related to a specific case for review. The term comes from a Latin word which means “to be ascertained” or “to make certain.” A writ of certiorari is one of the ways in which a high court can review a case. When a request for a writ of certiorari is submitted to a high court, clerks review it before passing it on to the justices. The justices vote on which cases shall be granted writs. Since most high courts are responsible for interpreting and defending national constitutions and the law, justices tend to grant writs for controversial cases, or cases which may set a precedent. Once a lower court has been served with a writ of certiorari, it must turn the requested material over to the higher court. After review, the justices offer a decision on the material, either affirming the decision of the lower court, or rejecting it. What this means is only that information regarding the original case has to be turned over. The higher court can rule further after reviewing the lower court decision on Berg's original case, which has already been denied by the lower court as Berg does not have standing to bring the suit.
The goal of those filing the original suit is to cast enough doubt that the electors may question the constitutionality of their vote, and as of now it is quoted that 24 potential Electors say they're filing suit demanding evidence of Obama eligibility. I do not know if this is again "slanted" info from the publisher or fact.
Electoral College Electors swear an oath to uphold the US Constitution. Voting for a presidential candidate, faced with compelling evidence that the candidate is not eligible to be president, would be a severe violation of constitutional law. The author of the original article is asking citizens to contact the members of the electorate from their state to voice any concerns on this issue asking them to demand proof of eligibility, with the assumption that people will believe that no original has been provided and failure to do so constitutes "compelling evidence" of ineligibility.
Here is my disclaimer 'cuz I sure do not want to be beaten up all night for this. I am just presenting another side to the question hopefully clarifying up some misinformation about the order to present an original birth certificate to the Supreme Court. I personally have a very difficult time with this whole thing. First of all, I believe this should have been settled prior to the election and the issue closed once the people voted. Secondly, I think it would be very dangerous for the electorate to vote differently than the populace such it would produce a different outcome to the presidential race, very dangerous!! I also find it difficult to believe that the Democratic party would have taken such a reckless chance as to choose a nominee someone not eligible to hold the office.
It has been proven that his birth certificate is authentic. nm
.
It is the original long form birth certificate
that usually has more information about parents, their address, occupation, baby weight etc., on it, as opposed to the abridged version which only will have DOB and parents names,for example.
Obama Birth Certificate Rears Its Head - Again...
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/12/01/obama-birth-certificate-rears-its-ugly-head-again/
Supreme Court will not take on BO's Birth certificate . Time for you to take action!
I stated in a previos post a few days ago that BO birth certificate case would not be heard by the Supreme Court. As many of you have said the judges and the Supreme Court are suppressing evidence as to the real situation that many of you do have extemsive, and true facts about. Clearly from your in depth knowledge about this situation, a cover up is occurring, not only by the Federal courts, but by the Supreme Court as will.
As in my previous post I strongly suggest that with the real evidence that you posses, that you most simplyt take action now, and save this country, not only ultimately disallowing Obama to be president, but to ultimately perform the ultimate patriotic duty for yourselves, as well as performing the highest civic duty that you likely will ever do in your lifetimes.
There is another current legal case in the works regarding this serious situation. Thus far the costs for persuing this matter are over $30,000 dollars. This can be found by doing a Google search, donations are badly needed, and if you people will make substantial donations regarding this, the higher the likelihood that the case will be placed in the hands of a federal judge.
The other possibility here is to start as a group, a collective case, pool your resourses to hire an attorney who speecialises in these matters, pay the retainer fees, the attorney's hourly fees regarding the case, and get the case filed in the Federal courts. The fees for doing this are not cheap, but you are MTs and make high paying salaries, so $20,000 to $30,000 should not be a problem here. Even the appeal process that is likely to occur is not out of your range as MTs, as it really only costs about double the amount of money to do so, as again the total expenses regarding filing an appeal would likely only be about $50,000 to $60,000 dollars,, and the beauty of the system is that if you are ultimately successful in winning the case, and you likely would be with the real facts at your disposal, the court costs are covered, and you would become true national hero's!!!!!
I don't understand that with the true information that you posses, why you are not persuing this instead of writing about on message boards.
With the true facts that you posses it is quite likely that you will ultimately win the case, would have completed the highest of civic duties, and will be held in the highest of esteem for finally exposing a person who has committed a terrible fraud, not only to the election process, but also to the federal judicial system, and ultimately going as far as perpetrating that fraud up to and inc;luding the Supreme Court.
I laud you in advance for having the fortitude for persuing this, and look forward to saluting you as well all of of the other American people, for performing the highest civic and patriotic duty that one ever could. It's people like you, that never give up, and get to the bottom of such an important situation. You are the true American heroes.
Aw, I guess the rabids can't question that birth certificate anymore sm
That whole thing before the election on this board was nasty and ridiculous. NO MORE PALIN hahahahah and this is a great day!
Supreme Court Rejects Obama Birth Certificate Case
Now, if we can just all survive until January 20, 2008, without another war or false flag attack on our nation, there may be some hope for the future. Until then, Bush is still President and still a very dangerous man.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/08/obama-birth-certificate-c_n_149229.html
Production of a Certificate of Live Birth is a very small price to pay for unity...
Is Barack Obama a U.S. citizen?"
Of course he is, dummy..
"But how do you know?"
Well for starters, he posted his birth certificate on his website. Not to mention, the Director of Health for the State of Hawaii released a statement saying he was born in Hawaii . Also, factcheck.org (a non-partisan and highly credible political fact checking website) investigated it heavily and validated, beyond doubt, that the birth certificate he posted was real. Did I mention that if there were an actual conspiracy surrounding this...it would have to be 47 years in the making? That's right, read it and weep: his birth announcement was posted in a Hawaii newspaper way back in 1961! But if you're really not sure, just remember there have been court cases challenging his citizenship, and every one of them was laughed off the docket.
"That's all pretty compelling. But I got this email that said...."
The email you got is just a crazy, internet-born rumor. It's nothing but a desperate attempt to discredit him. Trust me.
"Yeah, I'm sure you're right...."
Sound familiar? I've personally had a similar conversation several times, but mine ends differently.
"Well for starters, he posted his birth certificate on his website."
Really? Well humor me, because I think this is important enough for us to get our facts straight. So let's explore that. Hawaii doesn't issue "birth certificates". The state offers "Certificates of Live Birth" and "Certifications of Live Birth." What Barack Obama has posted on his website is a "Certification of Live Birth." So let's talk about the difference between the two documents. As you probably know, the document we commonly refer to as a "birth certificate" (more formally called a Certificate of Live Birth) is packed with detail. Detail like the hospital you were born in, the doctor who delivered you along with his/her signature, etc. It looks like a tax form with all the boxes and everything. The Certification of Live Birth is really just a snapshot of that. So which one is more credible? Which one does the state of Hawaii give the "last word" to? Based on information that existed long before this issue came up, let's take a look at one example of what the state of Hawaii has to say on it:
"In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL." ( http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl ).
So if the state of Hawaii itself doesn't accept "Certifications of Live Birth" as a last leg of verification, it's safe to say there's a pretty solid distinction we too can make when comparing a Certificate to a Certification. What Barack Obama posted, was a Certification. What people want to see, is the Certificate. When you say he "posted his birth certificate" on his website, the truth (painful as it may be to hear) is that he posted a much different document that if accurately described, would be a "birth certification" - which is far less credible and far easier to alter.
"That's pretty lean. It's not really a big deal to me because I know it's just a rumor. But still, if you're going to insist there's a question here, I have to tell you....the state of Hawaii released a statement saying he was born in Hawaii . They have the 'Certificate' you're talking about, and they proved it was authentic. Are you saying they're in on this crazy conspiracy?"
I'm not saying they're involved in a conspiracy, or even that one exists. But I'm not sure you can honestly say you actually read that statement. Here, take a look:
Director of Health for the State of Hawaii , Chiyome Fukino: "There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate. State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures. No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai'i."
Now you tell me, where in that statement does it say anything about where he was born? Public officials are very careful when they release these statements. They carve their words out precisely and check and double check to make sure what they release is accurate and viable. I have to be honest, it wasn't until this statement came out that I became more concerned by the citizenship question. If you actually read it, it's plain to see that as it relates to his birth, the statement really only "proves" 3 things: 1) Barack Obama was born, 2) proof of that birth exists on paper, and 3) their office is in receipt of that paper. An official statement with a lot of affirmatives about requirements and procedures means nothing if they can't find the words, "originating from Hawaii " or "was born in Honolulu " or "as documented in the Certification he has already released". Now maybe it was an accident that Dr. Fukino was able to authenticate virtually every scrap of it's existence - except the part everyone is asking about. However, pressed on this, there has been ample opportunity for her to revise or expand her statement, and she still to this day has not done so.
"Wait a minute, Hank. Didn't factcheck.org already investigate this whole thing. You're just grasping at straws. What do you know, that they don't?!"
I guess the first thing I'd tell you is that, on this particular subject, factcheck has already missed a lot of "facts", and even created a few of their own. You know that statement we just read from Hawaii 's Director of Health? Well this is what factcheck had to say about it: "Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu " ( http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html ). Did you see that in the statement? I didn't. If this site's only claim is to report facts in a non-partisan manner, how much credibility can we really give them when they start making up their own, very partisan and very inaccurate facts? They also failed to make the distinction between the Certificate and the Certification. And to be fair, factcheck.org is a product of the Annenberg Foundation. You may remember, Barack Obama worked for Annenberg as a spoke in their umbrella. If you look at the actual facts, this is a slight conflict of interest on factcheck.org's part - which might help to explain their not having met their own obligation of getting the facts right. An accident on their part? Maybe. But they too have had plenty of time to correct it, but chose instead to close the book on this one...fabricated facts and all.
"Look....if there was any truth to this, it would have meant that Barack's parents and a Hawaiian newspaper were in on it too. And they were in on it 47 years ago! There's a birth announcement in a Hawaiian newspaper for crying out loud."
Okay now this is one of my favorites. So now rather than authenticating citizenship by way of formal, long-form, vault copies of actual Certificates of Live Birth - we are relying on birth announcements in newspapers? Let me ask you something: If you and your wife live in Ohio , but you gave birth while visiting Florida , is there a legal or logical premise that says you're bound to put that birth announcement in a Floridian newspaper? Or, would you likely send news of the birth back home, to your town-of-residence, where more friends and family would see the good news? If Barack Obama was born outside of the U.S. , there doesn't have to be a "conspiracy" for his family to have sent word of that birth back to their hometown newspaper.
"Hmm. Okay. Well newsflash Hank. This has already been challenged in court and the judges dismissed it as frivolous and ridiculous."
Actually, this has been heard in a handful of courts. The judges by-in-large dismissed the cases, you're right. But the majorative reason was not merit, but rather standing. "Standing", as an act of dismissal in the courts, is a technicality. The judges said that individual citizens did not have standing to ask that the Constitution be upheld. This raises a pretty clear question: If "We The People" don't have standing to ask that the contract we hold with our government be upheld (ie the Constitution), who does? There are several other cases still pending; at least 12 confirmed. One of those is actually active on the Supreme Court's docket, as we speak. Another has been brought in California by 2008 candidate for the Presidency, Alan Keyes...and several of California 's electors (members of the electoral college who will officially vote our President in on December 15, 2008).
I don't think too many grounded people could say, "I know the answer." For instance, I am not saying Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen. I'm not saying he was born in Kenya . I'm not saying he renounced his U.S. citizenship when he moved to Indonesia and attended school there (a right reserved only to Indonesian citizens - in a country that didn't recognize any dual citizenship.) I'm not saying that due to his father's citizenship at a time when Kenya was still part of the British empire , Barack, as a son, was automatically and exclusively afforded British citizenship. I'm not saying the video footage of his Kenyan grandmother claiming to have been in the delivery room, in Kenya , when he was born, is necessarily "evidence." I'm also not saying he was born in Hawaii . What I'm saying is, none of us have these answers. I'm saying, there is an outstanding question here - that only Barack Obama can answer. And rather than answer it, having promised a new sense of transparency throughout his campaign, his course of action has been to spend time, money and the resources of at least 3 separate law firms....fighting to keep any and all documentation off the discovery table and out of the courtroom. It is a well known legal fact that if you have documentation/evidence that will help you - you are quick to produce it. If that documentation will hurt you, however, you fight to keep it out of court. Let's be fair. He was quick and happy to give documentation he claimed validated and authenticated his citizenship to a website - but is fighting to keep that same documentation out of the courts. If that document really does authenticate and validate everything, why not just hand it over? Why fight?
"Alright Hank. Well MY question is, if there was any validity to this, why isn't the media covering it?"
I have no idea.
As an Independent and initial Barack Obama supporter, I can safely say that contrary to what many think, asking these questions is not an attempt by Republicans to win a technicality-laden seat in the White House. Republicans lost. They were due the loss. Most know that. The seat will ultimately go to a Democrat. But if there is truth to Barack Obama not being able to formally prove his a) natural born, and/or b) properly maintained citizenship statuses - we as Americans must not gloss past it. If there is truth to it, this will represent the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the American people and our most coveted process of democracy. If there is truth to it, this will demonstrate a wanton and relentless pursuit for power which left President-Elect Obama trapsing all over our Constitution - in pursuit of a position that ironically and foremost swears him to uphold and protect that same document.
There is much unanswered here. I know it is very embarassing for the Democratic party to have allowed what might be such an incredibly elementary oversight to occur - but nothing good that Barack Obama might do in the next 4-8 years, will be able to repair the damage done by setting a precedent that affords anyone in our Country the room and right to trample the contract "We The People" hold with our government, let alone a person who is asking to be our next President.
"Everyone will riot if they kick him out." We can't be intimidated by that. The people of our country elected a black man for the Presidency. Nothing can change that. If it turns out his entire campaign and effort were based on fraud, that reality is still 100% independent of the color-blind lenses our nation took to the polls. So if we bow down to the potential for race riots - recognizing that we did in fact (perhaps ignorantly relating to his eligibility) initially vote for him, we are only fostering a new evolution of racism that is nurtured by intimidation and complicit with failing to incite accountability over a man, people and process - simply based on color.
Very few people know any of this is even occurring. Those who do are greatly divided. Some are sure Barack Obama has acted fraudulently, some are sure he hasn't. Neither group can be sure of anything though, until Barack Obama himself answers the question for us. We all show our "birth certificates" (Certificates of Live Birth) several times over the course of our lives. Why should someone running for the Presidency be an exeption to that expectation, or even a more fiercely vetted recipient of it? More questionably, how can we as a government, media and nation - allow someone running for the Presidency to be an exception to that expectation?
The behavior, mostly (to my personal dismay) for his part, has only fueled speculation. Why factcheck.org? Why not a governing body like the Federal Election Commission, Board of Elections or even the DNC? When a governing body did finally inject itself in to this matter, why were they only able to do so vaguely...leaving the real question entirely untouched and unanswered? Why spend more than $800K fighting this in court, at a time when our nation is in economic crisis and that money could be better spent in far more charitable ways; when it could ultimately and universally be resolved for the small $12.00 fee required by Hawaii for a copy of the actual Certificate of Live Birth? In the spirit of transparency, why refuse to release this basic document for inspection? In the spirit of unity, why leave so many Americans alienated and debating the matter - when all most of them want is affirmation so that people on both sides of the debate can move to more healthy and productive lines of communication?
It was opinionated that he had left this door open prior to the election, so that those who opposed him would be led down a blind and pointless alley. The general election is over though. And still, he offers nothing to end the speculation.
By the time I am done with the conversation I outlined above, those I am speaking with inevitably return to what I have typically found to be their first and last refutation....
"He must have been properly vetted. Right....?"
I don't know. And without support for that contention coming directly from the Federal Election Commission, the Board of Elections or (ideally) Barack Obama himself, neither does anyone else.
"This is ridiculous" doesn't count as a refutation. Simply, answer the question with the simple documentation that is being asked of you in double digit numbers of court rooms across the country, including the Supreme Court. It may go away. It may be dismissed again based on standing. But President-Elect Obama's refusal to quell what have become very real questions about this, will only serve to leave many good Americans who hope to vigorously support their President...with far too much doubt to be able to do so. Production of a Certificate of Live Birth is a very small price to pay for unity.
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-156768
I guess our supreme court doesn't know what it is doing with regard to the BIRTH CERTIFICATE
shoulda allowed Harriet Meyers in there......
Factcheck.org link inside - Obama birth certificate - nothing wrong with reputable sources for your
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Either that or this is one heck of a fake, plus someone planted an announcement back in the 1961 Honolulu newspaper....
!!!!!
See link...not saying whether it is valid or not - asking you sm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_abor.htm
You have a very valid point........
I've noticed on this board alone that if anything is said against Obama, you MUST be a racist! So, unfortunately, on this board at least and probably over the country, if anything is said that opposes Obama, you will be called a racist because that's all they know to do.
Obama wants you to be dependent on the government for all your needs, as so many already do where I live. He will do absolutely nothing to help you, but will only make it worse. Most of us with any common sense know full well you can't help anyone by continuing to keep them down. Obama has every intentio of not only doing just that but bringing in the middle class as well to become dependent on the government, thereby empowering government to become more powerful.......
Unfortunately, I have noticed so many on this board actually believe the government's job is to POLICE their lives. They don't have a clue what their constitution says, what it means, and they actually believe BIGGER government means a better life for them. Most of those that scream racist on this board are just plain lame and very sad indeed and they know nothing else! Working hard to pay your bills seems to fall on deaf ears with those that think free handouts are a blessing. They don't have a clue about the American spirit and no doubt couldn't recite the pledge of allegiance or sing the star spangled banner without looking at the words......
and I say the same....go ahead and flame away. I truly couldn't care less.
I do think these are valid concerns...(sm)
and ones that have to be addressed. However, I don't see anything wrong with setting a goal, which is what Obama has done by saying it should be closed in 1 year. I think he purposely left himself some leeway by saying a year, and at the same time let people like me who support him that it will get done.
Personally I think they should be tried in a military court, which would avoid a lot of the bureaucracy that is associated with the regular US court system. They may want to go by the world court rules when trying them? You're right. Noone knows exactly how this is going to be done yet, but we all know that something has to be done.
As far as housing them here, I don't see a problem with that. Right now we house murderers, rapists, and some of the worst criminals immaginable. I don't think that these prisoners from Gitmo would pose anymore of a threat that some that are already there. However, I do think that Gitmo prisoners would have a really hard time in a prison here because of other prisoners.
Obviously, there is a lot to be worked out, especially when it comes to those in Gitmo who are actually guilty, but there has to be something done soon about the ones who aren't.
That is a valid point to consider
but what about those pregnant woman who are murdered and they are pregnant and the murderer is charge with double homicide. Why is the killing of a fetus okay in one circumstance but considered murder in another. LOL! It starts to get confusing when you look at every little thing.
I just think abortion is something that does need some form of guidelines.
That is a valid argument. Thank you
which clearly you lack.
h
What's missing is a valid premise.
nm
It is a valid political issue.
"We people" do not consider it a bunch of tissue. We believe, as does YOUR VP candidate, that life begins at conception.
you posed some valid points
I honestly have to tell you I read your post with an open mind and I understand what you are saying. I don't think we can go to war with everyone and I don't think we should. But on the other hand I think there has to be a better way of just thinking your going to be able to sit down with the most extreme who hate Americans and want to see our country destroyed and believe that by just talking with them they'll become our friends and say, "yes your right, we've been wrong all along, what can we do to help you" (well not exactly in those words), but I just think that for someone to think your going to be able to sit and reason with them is a little naive. Look what happened when we tried to reason with Saddam Hussein. He would not reason and threatened us with nuclear and biological weapons. He destroyed wildlife, oceans, and set his own oil fields ablaze. I think we do have to be strong and we need other countries to stand with us. To tell you the truth I don't know what a good solution would be, and I'll tell you one thing I do know is that whether John McCain or Barack Obama gets elected they are going to have one big mess to try and fix.
O has already provided valid evidence and
fanatics to hound and stalk him like hunted prey. Fanatics also unsuccessfully tried to use the guilt by association argument to win the election. It did not work then and is will not help them now.
Four years ago makes it no less valid and...
You are operating under the false assumption that we have had a "free market" over the past four years.
email petitions are not valid - nm
x
I don't think character (or lack of it)...
...is restricted to one political party.
Whether this crook is a Democrat or a Republican, he should be tossed in jail and the keys thrown away. Period.
What I see as sad is people who lack
the common sense required to set their fears aside and look at all sides of an issue objectively and intelligently instead of allowing others to interpret information for them, often intentionally misleading the reader/listener. Parroting alarmist misinformation is representative of the sad state our country is in.
lack of integrity
I am a died-in-the-wool Democrat and also from Pennsylvania. I have a legitimate interest in this. I have always admired Arlen Specter (he certainly never gives up) and have mostly agreed with his policies. However I think it shows a total lack of integrity to switch parties in the middle of a term. He was elected as a Repbulican and should serve as a Republican........after all he can still vote according to his conscience. If he wants to run next year as a Democrat, then so be it, but he should remain a Repbulican until the end of his term. It is unfair to
This Democrat who previously voted for Specter will not have my vote again!
Starcat made a very valid point.
You don't tolerate irresponsibility when it comes to pet owners (which I agree with, by the way), yet you seem to welcome it when it comes to your political party. One has to ask why you continue to sing the praises of and support the most irresponsible administration in US history, yet you express outrage about a cat owner. Just doesn't make sense.
And as far as you being tolerant, one only needs to take a quick look at the conservative board to see how laughable that really is. You and your cohorts post the most intolerant posts I've ever seen anywhere on the internet.
I do agree with you about pet owners being responsible. I am a pet owner and keep my pets under control simply because I love them and want to keep them safe.
I agree - it's a valid issue - for the WOLF.
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I think I meant to say you "posted" some valid points
It's late and I'm tired and been typing since 7:30 am, so fingers are getting tired.
valid points and YES, people are buying
concerning, huh?
What? She has a valid question and stating facts.
nm
Make sure your complaints are valid before spewing them.
nm
Certificate of
Sanity as attested by Hannity would be nice for this place, also, but still strictly optional.
No, your lack of compassion upsets me. sm
You need to think about THAT.
Well, then.... that explains your lack thereof.
Lack of common sense
An 83-year-old woman is too old, most likely, to be of much assistance in Iraq. Not ruling it out totally, but most likely this is the case. I have gleaned from the posts I have read that the rah-rah-war conservatives doing most of the posting are fairly able-bodied, some in their 30s, some in their 50s and some older. I am 52 and if I truly truly believed in this war I feel I would be over there doing what I could to support that effort (especially since many over there do NOT want to be there and have serious qualms about our involvement). But go ahead, call me names and make even more ENDLESS excuses why you won't go. Maybe even mention a 95-year-old or a 5-year-old that supports the war as examples of folks who aren't over there.
In the meantime I read more and more that the Taliban and Al-Qaeda continue to grow and operate at ease and at will in a large area of Afghanistan near Pakistan.
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