Israel's "occupation" of their land is the most godly thing in the middle east.
Posted By: Lu on 2009-01-04
In Reply to: Ummm, let's see here. You mention Obama - sm
Israel needs the help of no one. They will always prevail because they are backed by God -- the one true God. All those who come against the people of Israel will suffer loss. It is not out of fear that Israel arms itself, it is out of a deep understanding of their past, present, and future revealed to them by God. Israel is loved by God and hated by their muslim neighbors because of that fact.
There is no Palestine. As I said before, the palestinians are squatters. Claiming a land that never belong to them and never will be promised to them. Their name is not on the lease!
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These are the 16 countries in the Middle East...s/m
Countries in the Middle East, they are all Arab
States, except Israel and Iran.
Bahrain
Gaza Strip
Iran
Iraq
Israel
Jordan
Kuwait
Lebanon
Oman
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Syria
United Arab Emirates
West Bank
Yemen
I followed the news about the Middle East.
Good that the pro-western coalition won. This for everybody involved. What I read is that Hezbullah was not very eager to win the election, too much responsibility. What Hezbullah wants is to keep the veto right.
We will see who wins in Iran.
The Iraqi war has further destabilized the middle east. It has....sm
But obviously you don't think so so tell us how it has helepd to stabilize the region?
Freedom agenda in the Middle East?
Did Bush campaign promising a freedom agenda in the Middle East? I must have missed that during the debates. In fact, he specifically said he was against nation building when he debated Gore, although in all fairness, he didn't say he was against nation wrecking.
I guess he doesn't understand that the decider created more suiciders than he got rid of.
I can't wait to see how his base spins the long awaited truth from Bush's own lips that there were no WMDs and that Iraq had no ties to 9/11.
May God help us all.
No, if those who do not push for peace in the Middle East sm
establishing a democracy and fighting terrorists there rather than here, if those people are wrong, we will all suffer. It is certainly much broader than that. As far as why we don't just get in and kick butt and get out, well, there was a time when we would have. Now, there are too many liberal watchdogs who on one hand say they support the troops and with the other cut their Achillles tendon. Forced to fight a PC war, we can never win this. That's my take on it.
Wow, your ignorance about the Middle East is frightening. sm
But not surprising.
Obama's "buddies" in the middle east....sm
Are a figment of your imagination. You must be watching too much "Hannity's America." I watched Hannity's show about Obama last night, (even though I think Hannity's a doofus, to put it mildly) and I found myself thinking two main things:
1. There was not a shred of objectivity in the whole thing. Not that I expected there would be, but something so cleary biased makes be discount the whole thing. It was all innuendo and insinuation. It was pitiful, but if people get nothing but a steady diet of that kind of garbage, no wonder they think as they do. Garbage in, garbage out.
2. Maybe you're not aware of it if you're a Repub, but all of this "quesionable relationship" BS was dealt with months ago, during the Dem primaries. Don't you think that if there was anything to it, Hillary Clinton would've been able to bring Obama down with it? Didn't happen. There's just no "there" there.
And I am not personally offended by your Muslim comment, as I am not Muslim. I was simply pointing out that it was offensive, and racist. I think unfortunately that comments like yours are a sign of things to come, as McCain signals that it's okay. I find it sickening that's he's willing to take things into the gutter in this way, and the damage it will cause our country in his desperation to win.
Obama's middle east tour...(sm)
Has anyone else noticed what's going on in the middle east with elections? I don't think I would credit all this to just Obama's speech in Cairo, but my guess is that his example (and ours by electing him) has been noticed around the world.
The "pro-Western coalition" won in Lebanon, beating out Hezbollah.
"The leader of the largest bloc in the pro-Western coalition, Saad Hariri, said early Monday in a televised speech that he extends his hand to the losing side "to work together and seriously for the sake of Lebanon." He urged supporters to celebrate without provoking opponents." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/07/lebanon-election-results-_n_212359.html)
And how about Iran? Check this out. This looks familiar.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/31210578#31210578
Maybe there's something to be said for extending a hand of peace instead of pointing a rifle.
Paulson requested Asia and Middle East
And suggested that maybe it was up to them now to have a lower savings rate and a higher consumption rate.
I think he is putting them on notice that any further losses they will have to take and will not be covered by the government. I also think he is putting the US companies on notice that if they are borrowing from Asia and the middle east and issue credit default swaps they will have to cover them from now on.
Actually, this sounds like an "intervention" show where the parent is lecturing the drug dealer to stay away from their kid, the credit addict.
Obama sends more troops to the middle east
Obama sends 17,000 more troops to Afghanistan.
Obama's campaign speech: "As President of the United States I will start withdrawing troops from the middle east within 60 days of taking office".
Why am I surprised?
Everytime he speaks all I can hear is that Thompson Twin song "Lies"
Lies, lies, lies, yeah
Lies, lies, lies, yeah
Lies, lies, lies, yeah
I absolutely disagree that we as Americans cannot have an opinion about the Middle East. sm
You may be one of the few Jews who never liked Sharon. He was one of their biggest war heroes of all time and everyone loved him, that being in the past tense. The significance of the Gaza strip and its buffer of safety for the Israelis is not a minor point. It is huge. When the Jews left the Gaza strip, they leveled it. It will not be rebuilt because, of course, Hamas did not want to live on the land, they simply wanted to take it away from the Jews. Do we see footage of them frantically rebuilding the Gaza strip? I haven't seen any, have you? Hamas are gathering their arsenal. They will march toward Jerusalem. As a Jew, I don't understand your blase thinking on this in any way, nor do I understand your disregard for Biblical prophecy that all of this portends.
As long as US keeps sticking it's nose into Middle East politics
their puppet of destabilization, these unfortunate incidents will continue unabated. The oil belongs to them. It's our problem, not theirs.
Oh yes, closer attention to their oil assets in the Middle East.....remember those invisible weapons
nm
Bush won't meet with border officials despite evidence of Middle East infiltration through Mexico
Article Launched: 6/16/2006 12:00 AM
Bush declines to meet with border officials
Sara A. Carter, Staff Writer
San Bernardino County Sun
President Bush has refused to meet with border law-enforcement officials from Texas for a second time. His response to their request came in the form of a letter Monday, angering both lawmakers and sheriffs.
In fact, some Republican members of the House, upset by what they call the administration's seeming lack of concern for border security, are preparing to hold investigative hearings in San Diego and Laredo, Texas, early next month.
Members of the House Subcommittee on International Terrorism and Nonproliferation hope to expose serious security flaws that could potentially lead to terrorist attacks in the country, said Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, who is a member of the panel and has pushed for the hearings.
The next terrorist is not going to come in through (Transportation Security Administration) screening at Kennedy airport, Poe said. We already have information that people from the Middle East have come through the border from Mexico. They assimilate in Mexico learning to speak Spanish and adopt customs and then they cross the border into the United States.
Poe requested the meeting for members of the Southwestern Sheriffs' Border Coalition a group that includes all 26 border-county sheriffs from California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas. The sheriffs wanted to speak to the president about the increasing dangers in their communities and along the border.
The president is the busiest man in the world but he needs to take the time to talk to the border sheriffs and learn what's happening in the real world from them, Poe said. We can't understand why he refuses to meet with them.
In May, all of the Republican House members from Texas traveled to Washington to meet the president regarding border security. Bush did not meet with them, however, and former White House spokesman Scott McClellan was sent in his stead.
Poe said the White House letter dated Monday showed the disconnect between the administration and the American people who want the border secured.
The president would appreciate the opportunity to visit with border sheriffs, said the White House letter written by La Rhonda M. Houston, deputy director of the Office of Appointments and Scheduling. Regrettably, it will not be possible for us to arrange such a meeting. I know that you understand with the tremendous demands of the president's time, he must often miss special opportunities, as is the case this time.
Rick Glancey, spokesman for the sheriffs coalition, said its members are angry and disappointed in the president's response. Glancey said Bush's recent tour of the border with Border Patrol spokesmen did not reflect the reality of what locals live with every day.
It's a slap in the face to the hardworking men and women on the front lines of rural America who every day engage in border-security issues, Glancey said. He missed the opportunity to take off his White House cowboy boots and put some real cowboy boots on and walk in our shoes for a few minutes.
The border hearings will expose the truth to the American public and force the administration to take a serious look at the border, said Allan Knapp, Poe's legislative director.
Knapp and Poe have traveled twice to the border this year, spending time along barren stretches where they witnessed no security and numerous migrants crossing into the United States, they said.
We need to expose the lack of border security before it is too late, Poe said. We're fighting a war on terror in Iraq and we're winning, but we're losing our own border war. These hearings will be a necessary step in the right direction.
Andy Ramirez, chairman of the Chino-based Friends of the Border Patrol, said he has been called to testify before the panel in San Diego. Ramirez said he has turned in two years of Border Patrol documents and memos, which he will discuss before the committee.
The president has basically pushed his whole administration's agenda toward the war on terror, yet he can't find the time to meet with law-enforcement leaders responsible for border security, Ramirez said. It is appalling and outrageous that the war on terror and border security does not extend to the U.S. border.
I know my history of the region. The land of Israel is the hands of its rightful owners.
The Palestinians have been given the opportunity in 1947 when the UN granted a mandate separating the land into two states. The palestinians rejected the mandate and launched a civil war that Israel quickly won and declared their independence. Then in 1948 Israel was invaded by Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan which Israel one as well. The palestinians were given their chance and decided on violence instead and they were the losers. That's how it cookie crumbles.
In 1973 once again Israel's angry neighbors tried to invade, the Yom Kippur war. Israel was winning that one too when a cease fire was called. The palestinians lost fair and square. They could peacefully have coexisted with the Israeli's but they continually reject any peaceful solution and send their suicide bombers. Let's not forge the Oslo Peace Process in the early 1990s where Israeli government once again extended the olive branch agreeing to the PLO to form an autonomous government if they could agree to coexist with Israel and recognize Israel's right to exist. The palestinians answer? To laung Intifada II against the Israelis. Once again, more violence perpetrated by the palestinians.
Finally, what about the Sharon's disengagement plan implemented in 2005? Israeli government removed civilian and military presence from the Gaza Strip as a gesture to the palestinians so they could no longer claim that Gaza was an occupied" territory. Even after that gesture, the palestinians have refused to recognize Israel.
The palestinians do not want peace with the Israelis. They will settle for no less than the total annihilation of Israel as a nation which is the what the entire Arab world wants.
Israel's just as bad as the rest of the scummy middle
How he handled the Israel-Palestinian thing....
underscores his lack of experience. Putting up political posters at the Western Wall was not the smartest of moves either. Not saying he had personal knowledge of it, but he needs to rein in his "camp." A few days ago one of them, during a briefing on the plane, said something about "I've been in the White House for..." and a reporter had to remind him Obama was not President yet. Ahem.
As to the Berlin speech...a bit concerning. Is he running for President of the World or President of the United States? I think he needs to decide.
It's not Arab land tho'. The land has always belonged to the Jews!
Whatever the U.S. does or doesn't do where Israel and the middle east is involved is irrelevant. The land of Israel is THE promised land. It belongs to the Jews. They have had to fight for it against odds stacked against them and have won.
But it is not US land. nm
I believe in God. but you are in the la-la land...nm
nm
Oh of course....in the land where you are innocent if...
proven not guilty...you are seizing on poor judgment. Don't you think it is poor judgment to consort with terrorists and spend 20 years in an america-hating church? This is not bad judgment? McCain did not cost us anything. Keating, the one who perpetrated the financial debacle...is responsible for that loss.
Promised land...(sm)
Promised by who? A god that half of the world doesn't believe in? Sorry, that doesn't hold water.
cant have an economy without a healthy land
Frankly, you cant have an economy, if you have no livable land or healthy people. First and foremost is the land and it's people and animals. Without all of that, we will not have an economy. Funny how other industrialized countries are signing on..you know the countries who take care of their citizens with health care, paid maternity leave, paid vacation time..The caring countries..not the capitalistic class divided society of America. OMG, just in New Orleans now you can see who are the fortunate ones versus the unfortunate ones. The minorities are mostly all the unfortunate ones cause they could not afford to get out of town. They are the ones hurting and rebelling. This is the picture of America today. The *haves* and *have nots* and Bush continues to give to the *haves* and do nothing for the *have nots*.
Living in the land of Camelot
I have a hard time believing anyone alive during JFK's administration could still believe that fairytale. He most definitely was not one of the greatest leaders of all time.
But you're right about Obama inspiring millions in much the same way, and I certainly agree that he will be transformational.
Denial like this will land you in the same place
GOP needs to come to terms with where it went wrong, starting with a healthy dose of truth, washed down with a gallon of circumspection. Dems BTDT. If you need any pointers, just ask. BTW, it would be helpful for you to try the realize just which party the American people held responsible by taking another look at the election results.
It is as much Israeli as ALSO Palestinian land...nm
nm
Just like it wasn't British land....(sm)
when Britian decided to give it to the Jews.
Only in the land of Oz. Overthrow? It's called election.
So now he's plotting to kill or harm arou sovereign? No. Violation of allegience to covereign or state? No. Betrayal of trust or confidence; breach of faith (as in counter espionage). No. Treachery. No. Grasping at straws? Yes. Unable to win an election on the merits of your candidate and party platform? Most definitely. Paranoid and delusional? Classic.
He has been elected to the highest office in the land.
Your first clue might be global markets in the a.m. Watch them skyrocket.
And I remember the 1967 land grab
Why would anybody listen to someone who has ice water running through they veins, a black heart and mush for brains?
What land in Texas is even worth 'grabbing'?
nm
With Dr. Paul, everything is connected to the law of the land, the Constitution. sm
He does not personally condone drug use, but in the Constitution there is no authority that prohibits people from making personal choices.
Here is something more recent from him on that topic.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=40
You might want to research what those 8000 people did with that barren land....
From PW
This small piece of land has always been barren and squalid until 1967 when after the Arabs failed in yet another imperialist attempt to destroy the Jewish state, Israel took it over. Since then 8,000 brave pioneers have resided in a portion of Gaza. They settled in on infertile beach sand and were told by everyone that nothing had ever grown there and nothing ever would. Instead, what they accomplished was an agricultural miracle. Utilizing advanced technology which they invented, they made the sand blossom and built greenhouses that produce chemical-free bug-free organic produce that is shipped around the world and renown for its incredible quality and taste.
Now if a Muslim country had taken over this land they would have expelled all the 'infidels'. But the Jewish settlers came with garlands of peace, hope and opportunity. The greenhouses they built employ Palestinians at wages far higher than they would make under any Arab dictatorship, and have forged true bonds of harmony and friendship:
Saed, a 42-year-old greenhouse worker who commutes every day from Khan Yunis, said, For me, it's a really good life. I make enough money to feed my family. I am close with my bosses, who treat me with respect. I don't want to be out of a job. Fhaud, 63, a greenhouse supervisor, said he has grown attached to his Jewish employers. I've known my boss since he was a kid and I worked for his father, he said. Some workers here have known three generations of Jewish families. I was invited to all the bar mitzvahs and weddings. Mahmoud, who works in the same greenhouse, said, I don't want the disengagement to go through. Not just because I'll lose a job, but because I'll lose friends.
So Jews and Arabs working together, turning the desert green. In a sane world we would be commending these Jewish settlers for sowing real seeds of peace. Of course, this is not a sane world, for next week all this has to be dismantled and turned over to Islamic terrorists in the name of 'peace'. For the first time in world history a country is going to forcibly remove its own people and give land over to its sworn enemies.
So now that the poor Palestinians of Gaza are to be freed from their 'occupation', are they rejoicing in their independence and making plans to plow their energies into building communities and farms and schools and infrastructure? Are they preparing to serve as a model to the world that a country under Islamic law with a fresh start and no colonial 'imperialists' can succeed? Are they ready to turn their state into a free and prosperous Palestinian country?
At a mass rally in Gaza City last Thursday, some 10,000 Palestinians danced, sang, and chanted, Today Gaza, tomorrow Jerusalem. Jamal Abu Samhadaneh, commander of Gaza's Popular Resistance Committees, announced on Sunday, We will move our cells to the West Bank and warned that The withdrawal will not be complete without the West Bank and Jerusalem. The Palestinian Authority's Ahmed Qurei also asserts, Our march will stop only in Jerusalem. Meanwhile Hamas has officially announced that they will continue its war to destroy Israel by launching Qassam rockets at Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and communities in Judea and Samaria. We're sure they'll be making full use of their new seaport to import weapons and munitions to keep the carnage coming.
What's becoming clear is how the religion of Islam is addicted to war and mayhem. Not a radical minority, not a rogue sect, but its very essence is about submission and sacrifice and proving your worth by worshipping death in this life to gain a paradise of orgies and drunkenness. Their entire history is of warfare, and any accomplishments of their so-called Golden Age has been proven to be merely parasitic off the cultures they've conquered and reduced to dhimmi servitude. That every country under sharia is corrupt, belligerent, desolate and barbaric obviously gives them no pause, except to constantly drive them into further psychotic rage as they refuse to ever accept any responsibility for their conditions. They are akin to the powers in Orwell's 1984; there must always be an enemy. It's no surprise that women are treated like property in these countries as that's the only way Muslim men can feed their egos, to dominate others rather than ever actually produce something.
What a victory for these people that their terrorism has paid off, with Western intellectuals cheering them on. You can only wonder how many youth who have been brainwashed from birth in the madrassas and draped in their culture of bomb-worship and martyrdom will join the global jihad as it now appears they actually have a chance to win. While our soldiers at Guantanamo have to wear rubber gloves when handing out Korans, it's pretty reasonable for them to conclude that the West is ready to fall and the global caliphate is a real possibility. Israel's retreat from Gaza will certainly do wonders for their recruiting.
LoL! Must be changing of the guard in crasher-trasher land.
The solution is pretty simple. If you don't like the liberal sermon, then don't attend the liberal church.
Other than that, I couldn't care less what you think. Have a nice day.
Oh yeah, that is a qualification for the 2nd highest office in the land.
And pay off the debt the GOP created.
Obama lives in a fantasy land of his own making.
Unfortunately, he is also a gifted speaker and is leading many people down the yellow brick road to a magical make believe land. Too bad Obama can't see the big picture of anything.
Polls may not be accurate as pollsters call land...sm
lines and many people only have cell phones.
Your kind live in a fantasy land....too lazy to even
Sorry to disappoint you but I am independent. I have sat and watched posters like yourself who have absolutely nothing to prove false any facts proven on this board.
You are a bunch of sad desperate people. People like you have given democrats a bad name and have pulled the democratic party in the mud.
yeah, and I've got this land for sale in Florida..
A little naive. of course he is going to try to level the playing field. Perhaps you are the one misunderstanding.
Wanders the desert for 40 years before occupation of the land
now known as Israel. The palestinians which were sent into exile are in the millions. Even my Jewish friends agree that Israel is being ruthless (they have the right to protect themselves, they say. This is what they should have done before the Holocaust. Jewish guilt stems from their failure to do so, resulting in their loved ones miserable deaths).
And, the world waited for a long time during the Holocaust before acting. Where was America and England, they must have thought. Years went by and they suffered tremendously. And the strongest survived - and the Jews do remember they were ignored at their time of need by the entire world - that in itself would justify in their minds a lack of loyalty to any other country other than Israel.
Sharon said: "Israel owns America and America knows it."
Israel
There are many jews who do not like Sharon, many. I could post what they say about him but I wont. However, posting about great leaders, I grew up loving absolutely loving Golda Meir..The situation in Israel is not ours to decide or get heated about..the situation we need to get heated about is America. To try to tie jews and christians together happily cannot happen. For many many years christians did not even acknowledge jews or their beliefs, now all of a sudden lets get together as we believe as one, however, we do not believe as one, not at all. I have watched this over a few years, the christians are trying to hook onto jews as they think well, we both believe in the Bible so we believe the same. We do not believe the same. First of all, we do not believe in the new testament, we do not believe in hell, many of us do not even believe in a heaven and we do not believe in jesus as a savior. He was a jewish man who taught peace and love and tolerance but nothing more. Our savior has not come yet. I think you truly pray and feel for Israel, however, maybe you can take a few courses of Judaism at a local synagogue and understand us more. I know my local synagogue has courses for non jews to learn more about us.
Oil from Israel
Has anyone researched that? In the coming future, Russia will attack Israel. Those who have researched prophecies of the future of the world believe a gusher of this oil wealth is soon coming from Israel, and Russia (amazingly not called Soviet Union in these prophecies of 1100+ years ago) will form an Islamic alliance (they really don't want to) and will come down from the north and attack unwalled villages, supposedly for this sudden great wealth of oil. However, Israel has built walls all over the place. So, this attack will probably happen after the one world leader soon to appear on the world scene offers a convincing (but false) peace and Israel tears the walls down. I have been to Russia, and it is so different from what was promised to the Russian people back when my parents were very young. Then, it was a revolution similar to what Castro was supposed to have done, and now what Chavez is supposedly doing. I saw the apartments, hospitals, schools, etc., in Russia. Yes, Kruschev said there were no homeless people. I only saw people who had to live in apartments where the government dictated that they live and no freedom to express their opinion. Their cost to live in these apartments - free. Our cost to have the freedom in America to say what we want to - priceless. Anyone remember that guy that wrote, The Late Great Planet Earth, back in the 1970's. He now has a program called International Intelligence Briefing. Check your local/cable listings. If you know of any others like him who have researched this other side of the (global) story, please let me know. Thanks.
Israel was willing........... sm
to give the Gaza Strip to the Palestinians in 2005 and allow them to govern it on their own, but that wasn't good enough for the Palestinians.
China has given us untold amounts of money. Does that mean that China has a say in how our country should be run?
I stand on my previous statements that any country that does not support Israel (and I don't mean just monetarily)is barking up the wrong olive tree.
do you really think it is just to let Israel
take the whole of Palestine? Does not matter what the Bible says!
US, Israel planned ME war
Why does none of this surprise me?
'US, Israel planned ME war'
13/08/2006 11:06 - (SA) |
 |
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New York - The US government was closely involved in the planning of Israel's military operations against Islamic militant group Hezbollah even before the July 12 kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers, The New Yorker magazine reported in its latest issue.
The kidnapping triggered a month-long Israeli operation in South Lebanon that is expected to come to an end on Monday.
But Pulitzer Prize-winning US journalist Seymour Hersh writes that President George W Bush and vice president Dick Cheney were convinced that a successful Israeli bombing campaign against Hezbollah could ease Israel's security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential US pre-emptive attack to destroy Iran's nuclear installations.
Citing an unnamed Middle East expert with knowledge of the current thinking of the Israeli and US governments, Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah - and shared it with Bush administration officials - well before the July 12 kidnappings.
The expert added that the White House had several reasons for supporting a bombing campaign, the report said.
If there was to be a military option against Iran, it had to get rid of the weapons Hezbollah could use in a potential retaliation against Israel, Hersh writes.
Citing a US government consultant with close ties to Israel, Hersh also reports that earlier this summer, before the Hezbollah kidnappings, several Israeli officials visited Washington to get a green light for a bombing operation following a Hezbollah provocation, and to find out how much the United States would bear.
The Israelis told us it would be a cheap war with many benefits, the magazine quotes the consultant as saying. Why oppose it? We'll be able to hunt down and bomb missiles, tunnels, and bunkers from the air. It would be a demo for Iran.
US government officials have denied the charges.
Nonetheless, Hersh writes, a former senior intelligence official says some officers serving with the Joint Chiefs of Staff remain deeply concerned that the administration will have a far more positive assessment of the air campaign than they should.
There is no way that (defence secretary Donald) Rumsfeld and Cheney will draw the right conclusion about this, the report quotes the former official as saying. When the smoke clears, they'll say it was a success, and they'll draw reinforcement for their plan to attack Iran.
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Israel solution
Move the state of Israel to Virginia, Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson can fight over the honor, and see how much y'all love Israel then.
I am not asking you to discuss Israel. sm
I know that it happens all the time. I am sorry that it does.
You don't have to go to Israel to know right from wrong.
Occupation, blockade, genocidal war of attrition, settlement expansion, diasporas of refugees, no right to return, the wall, imposition of police state, creation of open air prisons/terrorist breeding gounds, countless treaty violations, repeated invasions, plunder of resources, wholesale murderous slaughter featuring killing, generations of widows, widowers and orphans, maiming for life and massive destruction of property...just to name a few things off the top of my head.
Why Israel Fights
Why the Israeli attack helps the US by taking on Hamas now and why this time Israel may succeed in Gaza. A well-written perspective on Gaza, Israel, Hamas. This adds more to consider as we all discuss this war.
Why Israel Fights
By WILLIAM KRISTOL
Published: January 4, 2009
The Israeli assault on Hamas in Gaza is going to be a replay, we’re told, of the attempt to subdue Hezbollah in southern Lebanon in the summer of 2006. And the outcome, it’s asserted, will be the same: lots of death and destruction, no strategic victory for Israel and a setback for all who seek peace and progress in the Middle East.
Obviously, war is an unpredictable business, so I say this with some trepidation: I think the conventional wisdom will be proved wrong. Israel could well succeed in Gaza.
For one thing, southern Lebanon is a substantial and hilly area, bordered by northern Lebanon and Syria, through which Hezbollah could be re-supplied, both by Syria itself and by Iran. Gaza is a flat, narrow strip, bordered by Israel, as well as by the sea and by Egypt, no friend to Hamas. By cutting off the northern part of Gaza from the southern, Israel has basically surrounded northern Gaza, creating a military situation very different from that in Lebanon in 2006.
What’s more, the Israeli leadership seems aware of the mistakes — political, strategic and military — it made in Lebanon. That doesn’t mean it won’t make them all over again. The same prime minister, Ehud Olmert, is in charge, after all. But, today’s defense minister, Ehud Barak, is very different from his predecessor, the weak and unqualified Amir Peretz. So far as one can tell, the Gaza operation seems to have been well-planned and is being methodically executed, in sharp contrast to the Lebanon incursion. Barak has also warned that the operation could be long and difficult, lowering expectations by contrast with the Israeli rhetoric of July 2006.
In addition, in Lebanon, Israel proclaimed war goals that it couldn’t achieve — such as retrieving its two kidnapped soldiers and disarming Hezbollah. Now the Israeli government says that it seeks to weaken Hamas, lessen its ability to fire rockets from Gaza and secure new arrangements along the Egyptian-Gaza border to prevent Hamas from re-arming. These may well be achievable goals.
And, of course, not all military efforts against terror fail. Recall Israel’s incursion into the West Bank in the spring of 2002, when, under the leadership of Ariel Sharon, Israel succeeded in ripping up established terror networks and began the defeat of the second intifada. Israel also was able to avoid a long-term re-occupation, while retaining the ability to go back in on anti-terror missions. What’s more, the 2002 bloodshed didn’t seem to do lasting damage to hopes for progress or moderation on the West Bank. After all, it’s Gaza, from which Israel withdrew in 2005, not the West Bank, that became a Hamas stronghold.
An Israeli success in Gaza would be a victory in the war on terror — and in the broader struggle for the future of the Middle East. Hamas is only one manifestation of the rise, over the past few decades, of a terror-friendly and almost death-cult-like form of Islamic extremism. The combination of such terror movements with a terror-sponsoring and nuclear-weapons-seeking Iranian state (aided by its sidekick Syria) has produced a new kind of threat to Israel.
But not just to Israel. To everyone in the Middle East — very much including Muslims — who aren’t interested in living under the sway of extremist regimes. And to any nation, like the United States, that is a target of Islamic terror. So there are sound reasons why the United States — whether led by George W. Bush or Barack Obama — will stand with Israel as it fights.
But Israel — assuming it succeeds — is doing the United States a favor by taking on Hamas now.
The huge challenge for the Obama administration is going to be Iran. If Israel had yielded to Hamas and refrained from using force to stop terror attacks, it would have been a victory for Iran. If Israel were now to withdraw under pressure without accomplishing the objectives of severely weakening Hamas and preventing the reconstitution of a terror-exporting state in Gaza, it would be a triumph for Iran. In either case, the Iranian regime would be emboldened, and less susceptible to the pressure from the Obama administration to stop its nuclear program.
But a defeat of Hamas in Gaza — following on the heels of our success in Iraq — would be a real setback for Iran. It would make it easier to assemble regional and international coalitions to pressure Iran. It might positively affect the Iranian elections in June. It might make the Iranian regime more amenable to dealing.
With respect to Iran, Obama may well face — as the Israeli government did with Hamas — a moment when the use of force seems to be the only responsible option. But Israel’s willingness to fight makes it more possible that the United States may not have to.
Who does Israel belong to? So you are saying
the U.N. overstepped its bounds? And what about the United Kingdom that controlled the area in the early 1900s?
Like it or not nations are formed through civil war. There are winners and there are losers. It's really very simple. The process has not changed for centuries and it will never change. The strong prevail. The righteous prevail. The minute we take a liberal viewpoint, that's the exact minute we become weak.
So, even after Israel withdrew from
Gaza, the Hamas still continued bombing Israel. Who is the aggressor?
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