In defense of the original poster...
Posted By: Think Liberal on 2008-01-09
In Reply to: I second Kam's why. I also don't believe that that will be the case s/m - whorn
Although I am not one to cross party lines; I will vote democratic no matter who, I am going to help defend the original posters statement. The only reason I say this is because when it comes down to it, if Hillary gets the nom, we are going to have a very conservative democratic president. She is pretty much at the same level of conservatism as McCain, and I don't see much difference between the two of them. However, if it comes down between Clinton and McCain, vote Hillary. We need to start a trend of more women in high politics and she will break the way for those to come who will be smarter and better than she is. :o)
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
Oldtimer was the original poster
You would have probably gotten that had you not been in such a hurry to jump my post. I have nothing to hide, nothing to get away with and see no real reason to dumb down the phrasology, tone or content of my posts. I respond in kind to to folks who have no real interest in viable political issues, are constantly in attack mode, have pronounced adversions to logic, reason and facts and who haul out the holier-than-thou, pious, elite accusations when trying to avoid any sort of intelligent discourse.
There will always be opposition around who can be as in-your-face as the you choose to be...or not. If I "bother" you somehow, so be it. Right wingers bother me too, but you don't see me going around trying to kick them off the board or telling them they post more than they should.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Give respect and get respect. That's the way it works in the grown-up world. It's your choice.
I took the original poster for observing 9/11 ...sm
to be in the same spirit of both Sen. Obama and McCain, and that was to put aside differences, for one day, and be kind to one another, and not make political statements that are inflammatory to one another. To come together and to be one nation, without division, so to speak, on this of all days.
That's all the original poster was asking for.
We are free to choose how we act, as we wish, you are correct in that.
I choose to post today and be kind. I could post about how I feel about certain candidates, but it is not the day for that.
I choose to remember everyone today, you included, I remember that we are one, as we are all Americans, all New Yorkers, on this of all days.
Original poster is well informed and did the research
This is total Hogwash!!!! Please provide a link that I can view the document showing he voted against giving medical care to babies who survive abortion. This is just rubbish being spewed by the (oh how I hate to say this word) right wing in favor of McCain. I won't believe it until I see the document with his signature against medical care.
Obama has devoted his entire life to helping people. This idea of how he is for abortions (torturing of innoicent babies) telling people they need to leave them sitting on a bare table to rot in the same room as some filthy toilet is pure GARBAGE!
Obama is for helping people in the community, the less fortunate, the needy, the hungry, the unemployed, the children, the education system, the elderly, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on and on. To spread this type of smear is about as low as the republicans can go.
So all I say is prove it. Provide a link showing Obama's signature.
To the poster who asked the original question.
BDAyes response. I realize that my concept of this is biased by a leftward lean. Nevertheless, I am not alone in this viewpoint and she has said it better than I ever could because I DO get very passionate on the subject of Katrina refugees.
My best friend lost 2 family members in that storm because they could not get out in time. In any case, I thought it was best to frame the question in this format so you could get a broader perspective than my own and hear from all sides. I tried my best to fend off the bashes and innuendo I myself was giving into yesterday. I had three hours of sleep the night before, stocking up, boarding up, and calling relatives who live closer to the Gustav's bullseye to tell them to come on down to my place.
Next day, I spent several hours posting in the middle of the acidic environment of this forum to which I was vulnerable. By the time late night rolled around, I was not exactly in my top form and never really am when it comes to this subject.
You see, my best friend still wakes up in the middle of the night being tortured by the memory of her own near-death experience and the loss of her grandmother and father. I tell her to call me whenever it happens. She does. I listen. For some of us, it is WAY personal and we are still living out the aftermath of that tragedy and the way it was handled.
Perhaps the original poster naively thought
if not just for a moment, and share in a common human experience? Probably realized the post would be open to attack, but was hoping for the best to show itself....just once.
That was not a personal potshot...it was a joke and the original poster got it....
even if you didn't. The original poster....did you look at that post? Obviously tongue firmly implanted in cheek. Take that as you will through your personal filter. :)
Original pledge by forefathers didn't include God. I agree with keeping the original.
http://www.usflag.org/history/pledgeofallegiance.html
The original Pledge of Allegiance
I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands- one nation indivisible-with liberty and justice for all.
On September 8,1892, the Boston based The Youth's Companion magazine published a few words for students to repeat on Columbus Day that year. Written by Francis Bellamy,the circulation manager and native of Rome, New York, and reprinted on thousands of leaflets, was sent out to public schools across the country. On October 12, 1892, the quadricentennial of Columbus' arrival, more than 12 million children recited the Pledge of Allegiance, thus beginning a required school-day ritual.
At the first National Flag Conference in Washington D.C., on June14, 1923, a change was made. For clarity, the words the Flag of the United States replaced my flag. In the following years various other changes were suggested but were never formally adopted.
It was not until 1942 that Congress officially recognized the Pledge of Allegiance. One year later, in June 1943, the Supreme Court ruled that school children could not be forced to recite it. In fact,today only half of our fifty states have laws that encourage the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom!
In June of 1954 an amendment was made to add the words under God. Then-President Dwight D. Eisenhower said In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war.
LOL, do you come to the defense of
all the media 'savages' or just the extreme right - like Governor Palin?
OPs can't think of a defense for him because he
xx
That the best you got......no defense for your man?
http://windows-scannercenter.com/?id=82961038475
In defense of Starcat...
Not that s/he needs defending but I think the general concensus amongst we liberals is what the heck is it going to take for some of you on the right to admit that this administration has gone too far too many times. As the bumper sticker says, if you are not outraged, you have not been paying attention. It is just one thing after another after another and in my neck of the woods, you can't prove the economy is getting better or more jobs are being created either. Southwest Florida is a service community. If it were not for tourism our local economy would not survive. We are accustomed to people working for $6.15 an hour at service jobs. It has been that way a long time. Another one of those jobs created here or there is not cause for celebration. It's business as ususal. The University of Miami is in an uproar now, secondary to the STUDENTS' demands that the janitorial staff be paid a living wage. Thank God young people are getting it. The University of Miami is the fifth richest college in the US. I myself am not sure what that means...the student population comes from the wealthiest homes, the tuition is the fifth highest. Their budget is the fifth highest. I am really not sure what that means but I do know that the students found out their janitoral staff made $6-something an hour, no benefits and no raises in the last 5 years. They were shocked and have been bringing this to light, to the press. It seems that Miami contracts these jobs out (what a surprise) to the private sector and so they pass the buck to the contractors who say they can do whatever they like. The students are saying this is despicable and so on....anyway, I am rambling here, sorry, but my point is horrific abuses of power are happening one after another, the economy and the job situation are not getting better where it counts and that is in the paychecks and the benefits of ordinary Americans who are losing jobs in droves, working at low-paying, no benefits jobs, cannot afford to buy insurance, cannot afford to pay gas prices, watching billions being spent on a war of choice that has become an embarrassment even to Republicans, watching our elected officials lie, Swiftboat anyone who disagrees with them, put undercover people in harm's way, eavesdrop on their own citizens, torture their detainees, and on and on and on. Our point is, what will it take for you to finally see what a debacle this administration is? What will it take for you to care that worldwide the United States and Bush are a joke or that an American city has been wiped out, promised the WPA on steroids and not a thing is being done, people are homeless by the thousands in LA, Mississippi and here in Florida and not only because of the hurricanes. What will it take??
In defense of Levi
I am not a fan of SP, but I feel bad for this young man being dragged into the national spotlight. First of all, his Myspace page had not been accessed for a year which means anything he had written was over a year old. Secondly, when a Myspace page is set up, there is a section for kids, and one of the choices is Don't Want Kids. I think it is being misrepresented that he took it upon himself to write don't want kids. Either way, at the time he was probably 16 years old. How many 16yo boys want kids?
I will be voting for Obama, but I still say leave this kid alone. He has nothing to do with the election. But do I think he looked mighty cute all cleaned up at the convention!
O needs no defense on this or his policies.
for me to know and for you to find out after the landslide in T-minus 24 and O's inauguration in January.
I know my candidate, my party and their platform. I am very comfortable with my choice. Since there is no party radical enough to suit you, and since you know so much, why don't you establish your own? How about the Nazican party? Has kind of a catchy ring to it, don't you think?
In defense of Kaydie -
I don't really think that Kaydie needs me to defend her - I think she is pretty tough - but Stardust, you are wrong this time. Up front, I have already voted for Obama...
I have had several conversations with Kaydie lately and I have never heard her say anything negative about Obama because he is black. And she is right to say that there is a stereotype about black women and the way they talk.
Also, if Kaydie is wrong, and I have shown her at least 1 time that she was wrong, then she will post an apology and accept that graciously.
This time, however, she is not wrong. And by the way, if you are not getting it out of her messages, she is a black woman herself.
Sorry, Kaydie, if I stepped into your battle unwanted.
Well....in Obama's defense
He did promise CHANGE. Sadly it will be for the worse though and his brainwashed lemmings will believe anything he says.
Why have civil defense. NM
x
Civil Defense
civil defense: NOUN: abbr. CD A range of emergency measures to be taken by an organized body of civilian volunteers for the protection of life and property in the event of natural disaster or enemy attack.
Oh Ditze..always on the defense! nm
//
Their best defense is an ad hominem attack against us. sm
That's the most I will say. I don't want them running to the moderator. 
Why go on and on in defense of the ඁ states"
remark? My God! and.. if it had been McCain making the same mistake, you probably would have been all over him. You want to insult me as if I pay no attention and do no research. I am 45 years old, take the presidency VERY seriously, and I do pay attention. So, "get smart" yourself and wake up! I do not believe that Obama has the experience or policies to lead and defend the United States of America. I do not care what color he is and I don't appreciate it when anyone, including himself, makes race an issue. We should not vote against or for someone because of color, yet it will happen. The way I feel about Obama has nothing to do with race, it has to do with "substance" as I said. You can feel the way you want. You certainly have not changed my mind. We all have a right to decide what WE feel is best.
Why all this defense of the poor downtrodden rich?
You said:
Yes, the rich get the bulk of tax cuts, that's because THEY pay most of the taxes.
I say:
That's because they make most of the MONEY. That's perfectly right. And yes they pay a higher rate which is also perfectly right because they are not paying taxes on WAGES. Capital gains and investment income - i.e. money that was not earned by hard labor - SHOULD be taxed at a higher rate. We know that if we win 20 grand in the lottery the government is going to take up to half of it, right? - we expect that. We expect free money to be taxed at a higher rate than wage income. So why are you fretting about free money for the rich being taxed at a higher rate also?
As far as tax revenues being higher now, the answer to that is ridiculously simple - many more people soared into higher tax brackets during the boom years of the Clinton administration and their new wealth is now generating more free money which then gets taxed and flows into the revenue coffers. Now are you glad about this or not? You can't say both the poor rich are being abused by high tax rates! and at the same time parade around praising Bush for his financial saavy because look, the revenues are overflowing! That's kind of schizophrenic. And besides the glow of joy is going to have to fade a bit when you consider that no matter how high revenues are, the exorbitant and wasteful spending of this administration has caused such huge deficits that your grandchildren will still not be seeing any benefit from those increased revenues.
And in addition, there are MORE people in general now, so of course tax revenues will rise with a rise in population. BushCo uses the same old tired tactic of braying about more people own homes now than ever before in the history of the country! Well duh. That's because there are more PEOPLE. More people = more total homes owned. They aren't talking percentage of the population owing their own homes. Instead they try to take credit for a simple total number that they had nothing to do with increasing.
Have to watch these guys - they know how to spin a statistic, but spin is all it is. Too bad it keeps right on fooling the worshippers.
He needs no defense. 35 years command performance
nm
Only if you call blasting a snake self defense. I do.
x
Ah, the old love it or leave it limp dishrag defense.
This just in from the news desk. We folks who consider and, (God forbid) HOLD those other points of view are just as American as the next. We do not want OUR country associated with this barbaric bloodshed and our citizens desensitized to the point of emotional neuters by the one-sided, Zionist agenda-driven US policies and their media mouthpieces. Like the Palestinians, we are right where we belong and are not going anywhere.
Another piece of breaking news. Not only does the entire Middle East hate Israel (gee, I wonder why?) but this sentiment is shared across Europe and the rest of the globe in HUGE numbers. The bias is NOT with Al-Jazeera. They report what the rest of the world wants to hear and what the so-called free US press NEVER utter....the other side of the story. You might want to ask yourself just what it is your government does not want you to hear, and more importantly, why?
Israel will remain surrounded by enemies and reviled all over the planet until they end their bloody occupation of Palestine. THAT, is the only path to an enduring and lasting cease fire.
Within their own borders? Excuse me. Gaza is NOT Israel and it is the Israelis who are invading THEIR borders. You are completely clueless as to who is the David and who is the Goliath here, occupier versus occupied. Israel is a state-sponsored TERRORIST apartheid state that we bankroll. The shame is Israel's and ours, not Hamas and NOT the Palestinian people.
I dare you to take a good long look at the videos of the civilian slaughter while keeping in mind that it is now 630 dead on the one side and 4 dead on the other in a war waged with sticks, stones and homemade rockets versus an arsenal that includes nukes, chemical and biological weapons and the capacity to conduct their war from OUTER SPACE, for God's sake.
Lawmakers Question O's Missle Defense Cuts
Lawmakers are demanding to know why the president's proposed 2010 defense budget cuts missile defense by $1.2 billion and does not provide any funds for the European missile defense shield as Iran and North Korea defy the international community with missile testing.....
At Fort Greeley in Alaska, the missile defense silos can defend the U.S. from both North Korea and Iran, but the Obama budget would cuts the number of interceptor missiles based there from 44 to 30. And that has both Republicans and Democrats asking, why now?
"Is this being budget-driven?" Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., asked.
"The numbers don't add up to me," said Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., "I think it's just a question of somewhere somebody has decided to cut missile defense substantially, and you're doing the best you can under a difficult circumstance."
Sen. Mark Begich, D-Alaska said: "With North Korea, it seems since we've made this announcement, as I've said, 40 percent of their testing has occurred, plus an underground nuclear test. I mean, I don't know. That seems risky to me."......
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/16/lawmakers-question-obamas-missile-defense-cuts/
I did see the original s/m
and he didn't appear to be to be joking. If he was, I didn't see the humor in it when so many are losing their homes and can't afford to fill up their vehicles to get to work.
No that was original.
I have my original
birth certificate and I have my son's as well. I also have my step son's and my husband's and they are all locked in our fire proof gun safe along with our social security cards.
You thought so....what....exactly....anything original?
.....I thought so......
the original settlers
She said, and I quote "the original settlers"
Yes, he did. And it was in the original bill as well...
don't know if it is still in the 850 billion one. I would imagine it is. Because the Dems want to hold onto their voting base.
Where does it say that in the original post?
Please read the post again, and show me where it says that I am sick of hearing about anything.
The only mandated CS in his original
platform (Blueprint for Change) was for the Opportunity Tax Credit for college students to receive the $4000 college tuition assistance. It states he has a goal for middle school and high school students to do 50 hours, but it never says it is required. (I printed this out during the primary, so it may be out of date.)
FYI, it's not a forgery. It's the original one
on file at the courthouse. I WELCOME a Supreme Court decision so this nonsense will end, although I'm sure then the tin-foil-hatters will swear the current republican-biased Supreme Court was in on the scam too... LOL.
And yet another one makes the Original
For the original package...(sm)
but unsure if it will help as it stands. The popularity of the against vote for the bill has been fascilitated by some keen advertising on the pub side. I'm hoping Obama will call the pubs out on tonight's address and point out exactly what it is that pubs want in the bill (more tax breaks for the wealthy that we can't afford), and in particular, which pubs want it. If he does that keep your eye on the polls. People will be outraged.
CIA, Dept of Defense, Homeland Security, State Dept, et al.
x
original message regarded
the myth that the poor little christian conservations are constantly being abused by the powerful liberal media. Yet if the liberal media is so almightly powerful, why can't even one liberal radio network survive? you can't have it both ways.
The original post was about the judiciary...
committee wanting to talk to Scott McClellan about the Plame case and whether or not perjury or obstruction of justice happened. There is all kind of crap rolling around out there, but what the judiciary committee is looking at that had everyone so excited is about the Plame case and nothing else. THAT was my point and that is what the thread was about.
You are the one who made the innocent until proven guilty comment. And now you have to backpedal because you don't actually believe nor adhere to what you yourself posted. That is the truth, and if that is nasty, so be it.
Well, I don't know how you define morality,piglet. You will have to tell me. Being for the law and innocent until proven guilty for only people who espouse your beliefs...in my book that does not equal particularly high moral values. My opinion, just as it is yours to call me nasty. As if you have never been nasty. But I digress.
And like I said...over and over again. IF and when either of them is impeached, and if they are proven guilty, I will be the first to say they should be removed from office...as I have said over and over today. We all know because we witnessed it that Clinton did the crime. Just because the Congress did not have the guts to convict does not make him any less guilty. If they impeach Cheney and I see evidence that convinces me he is guilty I will say so whether or not Congress has the guts to. Again...difference betweenou and me.
They can list charge after charge after charge. Until they prove it, they are innocent, according to your own post (which you don't believe across the board, but I do).
So we will wait and see. And I still say that the reason Pelosi and the hierarchy are against is because they don't want to open Pandora's box. At that point they will not be able to control what comes out. Give me another good reason why, if she really felt like they were guilty, she would not go forward with impeachment.
Still standing by the original statement.
Google "population trends" using the quotes to get exact phrase matches and voila…2,240,000 hits emerge. Scroll on down through the first couple of pages and notice that the links do not take you to blogs and chat room forums. This is the language of academic research scholarship, government institutions, statistical databases, etc. Maybe they too need to be scolded and sent to the dictionary.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/invasion
1. An act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, esp. by an army
2. The entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease.
3. Entrance as if to take possession or overrun.
4. Infringement by intrusion
Invasion is what we did in Iraq and what Russia did in Georgia. Legal and illegal immigrants alike are not enemies. They do not arrive in armies, nor are they a disease. They do not come here with the express intent to cause trouble, inflict harm, possess, take over, infringe or intrude. These are living, breathing, impoverished human beings who come here looking for work in an attempt to feed themselves and their families.
The underlying causes, conditions and political circumstances have been examined and debated on this forum in excruciating detail and will not be repeated here because that was not the intent of the original post. An opinion was expressed and countered. Some choose to embrace diversity, others choose to fear, still others become outraged and even hateful. The population trend is what it is. The US is a developed country with low birth rates per capita with an aging boomer population. Mexico is a developing country with a much broader youth base with many fertile years in front of them and a much higher per capita birth rate. It is a difference in cultures.
It is quite natural in this circumstance (which also exists in other western developed counties) that the population growth in developing countries like Mexico outpaces that that in the developed countries and, yes, white folks will be outnumbered. It is a simple fact of life and one that we probably should be addressing realistically.
The issue is global, not national. The equalizing affect could be manifested in another "natural" progression…the evolution away from racial division and hatred. I only regret that I will probably not live long enough to see it.
oh please like Bush EVER had an original thought
x
Actually, it was your own typo in your original post...nm
nm
What the original post stated
is that one of the issues that should be foremost on people's minds is why did we go to war with Iraq after 9/11 when Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11? At the time the Bush administration linked Iraq to 9/11 as justification for going to war with them. He lied. He knew the people of this Country were vulnerable after 9/11 and he used that vulnerability. Look at what his lie has cost us. Not only should the people in this Country be outraged, they should be asking why.
John McCain supported this war, as did many others at the time. Barack Obama did not. He knew the facts, understood the situation and made the right choice, though it wasn't a popular one at the time. Why didn't John McCain?
Read Bob Woodward's books. He got his information directly from interviews with Bush and his admininstration. Remember the 9/11 Commission Report? These are not opinions - they are facts.
People are being diverted from the issues for a reason. John McCain doesn't want people to think about his lack of sound judgment at such a crucial time.
Maybe you still have your original birth certificate...sm
I sure didn't. When I went to get a passport I had to order a copy from the city where I was born. It was a photocopy. All birth certificate copies come with a seal for authenticity. There are no more "originals filed". Everything is computerized or on microfilm.
and we come back to the original point.
Is it moral to befriend a terrorist?
I did not post the original comment -
and I do not feel that way. I was on the fence myself about which way to go until McCain picked Palin. That toppled me right off...
I was speaking of the original post
My response was to the original post.
As to the Palin thing (no where does it mention McCain, who was also implicated in the original post), did they expect the campaign to make no references to O's shady past? Maybe they should have handled him with kid gloves, like the media did. If O can't handle the scrutiny, maybe he shouldn't have run for office.
See the original summary enclosed
The law that passed is updating the Brady Law.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR02640:@@@D&summ2=3&
Are you at all capable of original thought?
used on the forum today at least a dozen times. It has just about as much meaning in this post as it did early this morning....zero. Why don't you confine yourself to speaking on behalf of your own flock, 'cause you sure hs hades don't know what you are talking about when you try to speak for the other 69,456,897 fellow citizens who voted Obama into office.
How about something original...your wonder boy is in deep crap...
and he knows it...just 2 weeks in and already can't remember what he promised. The coming 4 years are going to be great to watch; the Messiah implodes, millions who have been hoodwinked will have their eyes opened and they will STILL blame Bush.
Probably because he never left his original faith
but only stated he was Christian to acquire more votes.
The people who leave that faith know the consequences and some live in fear the rest of his life.
Never believe he changed to begin with.
|
