Immigration attys probable grasp basic citizenship concepts.
Posted By: Talk about asinine. Give up this folly. nm on 2008-10-19
In Reply to: Cases? - nm
rasberries
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why would he have to apply for citizenship? He never denounced his citizenship...
x
I see no conflict between these two concepts.
in his responses to questions about when life begins. The fact that he considers this to be beyond his pay grade and thus NOT an issue the government should be pursuing is exactly why those of us who share this belief support him on this question, separation of church and state and all. You make your connections any way you like and conduct yourself accordingly but try to endcode this into our laws and expect a tall wall of opposition every single time.
sam - you seem to have a better grasp on these
politics than I do (not being sarcastic). I'm wondering if you could answer my question below -- do you know if either candidate has a proposal for this financial crisis that doesn't involve the taxpayers shelling out $$$?
As for the interview, I agree that Biden wouldn't have answered that question any better, but the question that got me was the one about the dude (Rick or something?) in their party that was still collecting on the FM/FM deal. I realize that these candidates are all spoon-fed the politically correct response, but I just didn't like the way she dodged the question when it was so pointedly asked. Repeating the same answer was not helpful, either. It almost insinuated that she knew more than she was letting on. But I guess all these candidates do, don't they?
Not really that hard to grasp.
A great article about the Gulf of Tonkin incident can be read here:
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/
g/gu/gulf_of_tonkin_incident.htm
But to answer more plainly, the point is that Johnson in all ways was a dead ringer for today's Republicans. He did not represent the Democratic ideals then or now. Interesting snip of the article:
Most Americans know little of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. Historians have shown that the Johnson administration provoked the incident with the intention of crafting a pretext for making overt the American covert involvement in Vietnam.
Sound like anyone you know? Sound like two Texas politicians might have owned the same playbook? Should either one of them be admired for that? I can certainly say no!
So when are those on the Wrong Right going to place blame where blame is clearly due on BOTH sides of the aisle?
May I compliment you on your grasp of the issues s/m
I tell ya, the people railing on this board make me almost root for Obama. Republicans seem oblivious to the fact that while Sarah Palin may be a great soccer mom, it isn't soccer mom experience that makes a great VP or God forbid, president. I used to greatly admire John McCain's military service but I have gotten to the point that I don't give a big hairy white rat's behind. He has bragged on himself until every time he brings up his "distinctive" military service I want to throw up. Anyone with half a brain that is functional can see your post hits the nail on the head. Refreshing to see someone with reasoning capabilities and......honesty.
I just cannot grasp the fact that you can't buy shampoo
or basic needs if you are both working and working overtime. You must be in serious debt....
What do you expect them to do? They've got to grasp the only straw they can find
conservative "values."
They don't know how to be objective, and they're not willing to accept the truth.
Basic tax proposals
MORE OF THE McSAME
Taxes
McCain: Pledged not to raise taxes, then equivocated, saying nothing can be ruled out in negotiating compromises to keep Social Security solvent. Twice opposed Bush's tax cuts, at first because he said they were tilted to the wealthiest and again because of the unknown costs of Iraq war. Now says those tax cuts, expiring in 2010, should be permanent. Proposes cutting corporate tax rate to 25 percent. Promises balance budget in first term, says that is unlikely in his first year.
Obama: Raise income taxes on wealthiest and their capital gains and dividends taxes. Raise corporate taxes. $80 billion in tax breaks mainly for poor workers and elderly, including tripling Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credit for larger families. Eliminate tax-filing requirement for older workers making under $50,000. A mortgage-interest credit could be used by lower-income homeowners who do not take the mortgage-interest deduction because they do not itemize their taxes.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26424187/
I went to Basic & AIT at Ft. Jackson
I'd love to see it now. That would bring back some memories (it was 28 years ago) - man am I that old? HA HA
You missed a bunch of hate-filled messages directed towards me today because I brought up something about Obama they didn't want to hear. Just snyde and dirty nasty hate filled remarks towards me trying to put me down. DH asked why I was so upset and I told him someone was yelling that I'm a racist. I let him read all the messages and he about fell on the floor laughing (I'm black). HA HA That did cheer me up.
Exactly...basic tenet of socialism.
I thought Hillary was the major socialist...he puts her to shame.
Why not? The basic minimum that should be required. nm
.
Better McCain....at least he has basic American values still...
Obama is a radical socialist and that is the "change" he is talking about, and he "hopes" he can hoodwink America into buying that "change." And it looks like he is doing a pretty good job. Just be careful what you ask for...he has started already applying is black liberation theology plank of economic parity...redistribution of wealth. He has promised to do that. Windfall profit tax on oil companies (which will do NOTHING to bring prices down, will in fact send them up) and redistribute that income to people who did nothing to earn it. That is the opposite of what has made America great. I should not be surprised that so many believe him...but I am.
thank you - but it is better - he just graduated basic training Friday -
now he is a MAN...
It just seems to me to be wrong on a basic moral level....
Christianity aside...that the power of life and death be given to one individual over another. Any OTHER time than abortion that is murder, not negotiable. Yet for the most innocent among us, the most vulnerable, in the eyes of some it is fine for one human being to decide to terminate the life of another on the basis of choice...and inconvenience.
I do not believe Obama sits around and thinks about how many babies will die every day (to the tune of over a million a year...!). I don't think he thinks about it much at all. How lucky for him his mother chose life.
This statement shows ignorance of basic economics
You are misinformed to such an extent that it makes you unable to recognize your own best interests. If you candidate wins, look for your profession to decline by leaps and bounds, if it survives at all.
Redistribution of wealth is a basic socialism tenet...
and it is part of his platform. He leans very hard in the direction of government run health care...alnother socialism tenet. He used and taught the Alinsky method of organizing...hard left Marxist theory. Not overgeneralization. He went to a church preaching black liberation theology for 20 years....major Marxist overtones and "economic parity" part of that theology. If it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it's a duck. And if you look at his associations throughout his career...common thread there. And for me, that is concerning. And yet another reason I am not voting for him. He is no change from any of the hard left liberals before him, except in one key area...he is harder left than any of them, if you look only at his voting record. He's not the guy for the job as far as I am concerned.
Nothing against immigration, but I don't...
think it is too much to ask them to jump through the appropriate hoops to live LEGALLY in our great country. "Who are they to break our laws?" is the better question. They come up here and drive cars with no insurance--I have been in an accident with an illegal with no insurance and no driver's license. You know what happened to him? Nothing. I got stuck repairing my own vehicle that he rear ended and nothing happened to him at all. Not even a ticket-not that it matters because he wouldn't show up to court anyway. Wonder why auto insurance costs so much in California? That's it right there. There are HUGE problems with illegal immigration and I hope they close the border indefinitely. It amazes me that people say things like you just said. You have apparently not been directly affected by illegal immigration.
Hillary on immigration...
not sure why you are asking me; I didn't post anything about Bush and immigration...I don't happen to agree with him on that. Apparently Hillary does though...see article:
WASHINGTON --Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, a potential White House candidate in 2008, said Wednesday some Republicans are trying to create a "police state" to round up illegal immigrants.
Alerts Clinton, D-N.Y., spoke out on the U.S. immigration policy after largely staying away from an issue that has roiled Congress in recent months and spurred a number of conflicting proposals.
Speaking at a rally of Irish immigrants, Clinton criticized a bill the House passed in December that would impose harsher penalties for undocumented workers.
"Don't turn your backs on what made this country great," she said, calling the measure "a rebuke to what America stands for."
The House measure would make unlawful presence in the United States, which is currently a civil offense, a felony.
Clinton said it would be "an unworkable scheme to try to deport 11 million people, which you have to have a police state to try to do."
That sounds to me like she is supporting amnesty from the back door saying that it would not be possible to round them all up.
You will also notice that the Republican congress wants to make it a felony to be here illegally...good for them. Hillary does not agree, and neither does Bush. As I stated...I do not agree with Bush on this issue.
Very Informative about Immigration
It's 13 minutes long, but well worth it (and no commercials)!
As we prepare for the expected Congressional battles over immigration numbers this fall, it’s a good time to take stock of the urgency of our cause and the tools we have available to help fight for lower immigration numbers.
This video captures the essence of NumbersUSA and is a must-see for anyone who wants to fully understand the basic information behind our work.
Or, you can cut and paste this link into your browser:
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/resources/video/recommended/immigration-numbers.html
There is, perhaps, no better way to quickly understand the essence of NumbersUSA than to watch
this video. If you haven’t already seen it, you must watch. If you have, I recommend taking another look or forwarding it on to your friends and family.
For more information and feedback on the video, please see my recent blog entry: http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/bealea/august-25-2008/13-minute-video-heart-numbersusa.html.
Immigration lawyer. nm
.
He has been able to produce no immigration
nm
Ilegal immigration
This is a major bone of contention with me and unfortuately both candidates want to give these illegals a "path to citizenship"......er amnesty. I believe this is a large part of what is wrong with the economy:
1. Our government doesn't comprehend the meaning of "illegal."
2. Big business wants cheaper labor. Illegals work for less with no benefits so what follows? They depress wages for American workers. Remember Bush's favorite saying (haven't heard him say that in awhile) "they do jobs Americans won't do." There is no job American workers won't do if the pay is right. Cherokee Casinos have obvious American citizens doing work, including cleaning the bathrooms, they don't employ....well, I'll say it...Mexicans. I believe they pay them around $9 an hour. Cleaning bathrooms isn't a job that I would like to do but Americans are doing it. Most of the construction jobs are done by Latinos. Those jobs used to pay well but now an American citizen is passed over in favor of hiring illegals.
3. A lot of our economic problems I think are because banks gave loans to illegals, knowing full well they might default on the loans.
4. Illegals are given the same benefits as citizens and that is just WRONG.
From what I see we are not getting the cream of the crop immigrants, we are getting the bottom of the barrel that tax our welfare system and get free medical care while LEGAL citizens go without. Your neighbor is a classic example, come here illegally, have a kid and you're here to stay. The first thing that needs to go is the "anchor baby" thing. How the heck can a child born to ILLEGAL parents become a citizen automatically. Ridiculous.
That's the job of the immigration department.
LAPD deals with robbery, rape, murder, drugs, domestic violence, car chases, etc., in other words actual crimes.
The immigration department deport illegal immigrants.
If an illegal immigrant commits a crime, LAPD is allowed to arrest them.
Personally, I find that most illegal immigrants are much harder workers than many of the lazy US citizens who think they are too good to put in a hard day's work.
Yes, Bush has softened on immigration
Many conservatives, including me, want to see much tougher immigration policies than what he is proposing. I propose a 15-foot wall along the total southern border with high voltage lines on top. If people die trying to scale the wall then it's their decision.
I'm not sure that immigration needs to be a felony, but any illegal immigrant caught should be deported post haste. I do think deportation of illegals who have been here many years and are productive may be a little too tough. I am for earned legalization as long as forgery and corruption is kept in check. People who are here illegally should get in line behind those outside the country who are following the rules and waiting their turn.
There are no easy and inexpensive ways to fix border enforcement that was badly neglected over the last quarter of a decade or more, but it's better than the alternative of letting our borders be a free-for-all.
Here is the lastest immigration law, 2000. sm
http://www.aca.ch/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=91&Itemid=80
Perhaps when putting yourself out as an immigration law expert,
x
LAPD are not Immigration Cops
"...a known illegal criminal..." I love that turn of phrase, Kendra.
Police can spot "dangerous gange (sic) members" who've been arrested in the past, and they can't arrest them without due cause. The police don't deport people; it's not their job. If someone is committing a crime that's under police jurisdiction, then they'll arrest them. Immigration is not the jurisdiction of the police, like it or not. The police have much more important things to do than track down undocumented immigrants.
Immigration debate going on C-Span2 right now.
Just flipped it on and don't know how long it will be on. Interesting so far.
OMG! Check out O's stance on immigration
Please note, these are from 2008 before the election, but I think they still hold true.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Immigration.htm
In fact, you can also check out Emanuel, Holder, McCain, Napolitano, Clinton, here:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Immigration.htm#Headlines
Even if he could prove citizenship, which he
a citizen once he was adopted by the Indonesian stepfather. Once a child is adopted by someone from another country, they cannot claim citizenship to that country any longer, even if they were born there.
He has yet to produce immigration papers which show he applied for citizenship to this country, just like any "illegal" would have to do.
NOT TRUE. No one can take your US citizenship from you
.
Dual (or not) citizenship
I have a cousin who was born in England at a US military base hospital and she is indeed a US Citizen with no dual citizenship
Citizenship argument...another red herring on
Get over yourself.
Obama has never denounced his citizenship
as it relates to his citizenship to the country of Indonesia or denounced his citizenship as it relates to the country of Kenya.
He cannot produce a “vault” (original) long version of a birth certificate showing his birth in Hawaii but he does have a "vault" (original) long version of a birth certificate in Kenya.
Interesting as to what he does have and what he can't produce.
He lost his citizenship upon adoption by his
nm
He had the right to accept his Kenyan citizenship... sm
at age 21 and since he didn't, it expired. Hence his only citizenship is his American citizenship.
Because he had no citizenship to denounce in the first place. sm
Go back and read the post. Indonesia, at the time that Obama lived there, did not recognize dual citizenship, therefore nullifying his supposed US citizenship. In order to attend school in Indonesia, he had to be a citizen of the country and he was made a citizen of that country by the adoption of his stepfather. His school card in the link below lists him as an Indonesian citizen and his religion as Muslim.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72656
I am no expert but....it has something to do with "dual citizenship." sm
My best friend's husband was a Dutch citizen. (He has since been naturalized). They have 3 children. The kids could claim both Dutch and American citizenship up until the age of 18. Then they had to make a choice of which citizenship to renounce. Now that was back in the 80's so things may have changed since then. Not sure if this explains it or not.
Bush Flip Flops on Immigration Bill...sm
Sensenbrenner: Bush Turned Back on Bill
Key House Republican Jim Sensenbrenner says Bush turned his back on immigration bill
WASHINGTON, May. 17, 2006
By FREDERIC J. FROMMER Associated Press Writer
 (AP) |
|
(AP) Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, who has pushed a tough border security bill through the House, accused President Bush on Wednesday of abandoning the legislation after asking for many of its provisions.
He basically turned his back on provisions of the House-passed bill, a lot of which we were requested to put in the bill by the White House, Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., angrily told reporters in a conference call. That was last fall when we were drafting the bill, and now the president appears not to be interested in it at all.
Sensenbrenner chairs the House Judiciary Committee and would be the House's chief negotiator on any final immigration package for Bush's signature. He said it was the White House that had requested two controversial felony provisions in the bill the House passed last winter.
We worked very closely with White House in the fall in putting together the border security bill that the House passed, he said. ... What we heard in November and December, he seems to be going in the opposite direction in May. That is really at the crux of this irritation, he said of Bush.
Steven Camarota....director of research for Immigration
................
Dual citizenship is not a crime. It's a privilege.
Repeat one GOOD reason?
Bottom line, no one can renounce the citizenship...sm
of an American citizen, period, whether they are adopted by a noncitizen or not. Obama had the right to claim Nigerian citizenship at age 21 but did not.
Interesting post regarding US Citizenship on another board...
Not true at all, even if your parent is a us citizen, if you are born in another country, you are a us citizen, but you are forever disqualified from running for president. This does not apply to military bases and diplomats. That is the law. My boss happens to have been born in canada to us citizens working there at the time. Took him 3 years to be able to get a passport to leave the us on vacation and yes they notified him he could never run for president. That is the difference between being a us citizen and a naturalized us citizen.
I believe it is also the same for anyone whom has ever claimed citizenship outside of the us, once you claim citizenship anywhere else, you are disqualified from running for president.
I don't tihnk a BC proof of citizenship is stupid.
Let the "stupid crap" go on until it is cleared up. I'm sick of hearing it, too, but I'll be dang if I want someone who is not a citizen to run our country. I want to know the truth and, so far, that truth isn't there. Too much secrecy (sp?) to warm my toes. It opens a whole 'nother can of worms if he is not a citizen, yet becomes president anyway.
It would mean a constitutional rule struck down and, (I shudder to think of this) even terrorists could run our country if they so desire and could pay off people who's vote count. Gee, do you want Chevez or Putnin to run our country? How about Ayers or Wright?
I'm just pointing out a few things here. There's too many question as why this was not resolved and why, all of a sudden, his records in Hawaii were sealed or whatever, after he went to "visit his sick grandmother."
Truth is all I want and I don't have it yet. But I will let the SC decide (if they weren't bribed) and then, I will embrace the O as a president until he screws up which, eventually, he will. He's coming off as "too perfect". There is no one "perfect" in my eyes.
I don't think dual citizenship applies to your kids -
Not being ugly, my daughter was born in Germany too, but I never heard that she had dual citizenship. She was born on a military base and that made her an American.
REAL Americans don't recognize dual citizenship.
nm
It does not matter if he has quadruple citizenship was born on Pluto,
any other fool notion you can come up with. Obama is a citizen of the United States and no number of lawsuits, appeals, attorneys or McC camp supporters is going to change that. These ridiculous distractions have rendered the rest of this campaign down to the level of a technical moot point. When you are in a hole (as the wise SP has pointed out), the first thing you do is to stop digging. However, you guys have managed to run the clock so far down, that there is really no way out by this time. Congratulations on your failed campaign. Cut your losses, go back to the drawing board, decide what you need to be doing for your fractured party and try to figure out what you will be doing in 2012 about your leadership vacuum. The citizenship issue is a dead end. Believe it or not. Nobody cares because it poses no threat whatsoever to Obama if you continue to rale about this until h@ll freezes over.
Not true, No one can give up the citizenship of a child who is a US citizen. nm
.
What the Indonesian govt requires for adoption, citizenship, religious affiliation
anything else is of NO CONCERN to the US govt when it comes to recognizing or preserving citizenship status of a natural born US citizen. Check the constitution. Check the State Department website. Check the immigration law statutes and stop making a complete idjit of yourself. You have been hanging in the fringe chat rooms too long. His citizenship was not renounced. I am sure his parents jumped through whatever hoops they needed to in order to live in the country and enroll their child in school, much the same way my own daughter is doing with her child while living in a Moslem country in the Middle East. They hold passports from there AND American passports and do not have to immigrate back to the country of their origin. The US govt turns a blind eye to this and preserves the integrity of its natural born folks. My God, you are a dense one, aren't you?
Two Border State Governors Declare Illegal Immigration State of Emergency
Two Border State Governors Declare Illegal Immigration State of Emergency
SIGN THE PETITION!
CLICK HERE!
THANK YOU!
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