I thought the same thing about people who voted for...
Posted By: Observer on 2007-09-27
In Reply to: Droves of illegal immigrants entering now...sm - GonefromMQ
Bill Clinton twice. Takes all kinds I guess.
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and we all thought he just voted "present"...nm
2
LOL
Just as I thought- all dems voted against McCain's amendment.
The democrats tried to object to his even reading of his statements yesterday. Guess they were afraid he would sway some votes. This is long, but please read.
----
Mr. McCAIN. Mr. President, the amendment I have is a product of a lot of work from a number of Senators on this side of the aisle. I especially thank Senator Martinez of Florida, a great leader on this issue, along with Senator Thune, Senator Graham, and many other Senators who have been involved in this discussion. This is an alternative we believe would truly create jobs and stimulate our economy. The total cost is around $421 billion.
I wish, before I describe the amendment--and I know others of my colleagues want to discuss this amendment--I wish to point out it is very clear that public opinion in this country is swinging against the proposal that is now before the Senate and was passed by the other body. They are opposed because they see now in the Senate a $995 billion package which could reach more than $1.2 trillion. Many Americans, certainly now a majority, do not see it as a way to create jobs and to stimulate our economy. They see it loaded down with unnecessary spending programs. They see it, very correctly, with policy changes which deserve extended debate and voting on their own, such as ``Buy American'' provisions, Davis-Bacon, giving Federal workers new whistleblower protections. Some of these policy changes may be laudable, others are not, at least in my view, but all of them deserve debate and discussion rather than being placed in a piece of legislation that is intended to stimulate our economy and create jobs.
I think it is time that we also understand how we got where we are. I have been around this body long enough to recognize that we are now entering the final phase of consideration of this package. Whether it be today or over the weekend or early next week, this bill will be disposed of one way or another by the Senate. So how did we get to where we are today, with a $995 billion package, at least, or $1.2 trillion, or perhaps more than that, with a bill that probably would create, in the view of the administration--and I do not agree with it--3 million jobs, which would mean that each job that is created by it costs the taxpayers $275,000. I do not think many Americans believe that each job created should cost $275,000 of their hard-earned tax dollars.
In fact, the response my office is getting borders on significant anger when we talk about many of the funding programs that are in the stimulus bill. I will go through several of them later on, but $400 million for STD prevention; $40 million to make park services more energy efficient; $75 million for smoking cessation. It is hard to argue that, even though these provisions, many of them, may be worthwhile, they actually create jobs. So we have strayed badly from our original intent of creating a situation in America to reverse the terrible decline and economic ditch in which we find the American economy, to the point we have had spending programs and policy provisions which have nothing to do with stimulating the economy and creating jobs. It may be Government--let me put it this way. It may be legislative activity, possibly, at its worst.
We are offering today an alternative at less than half the cost that we think creates jobs and stimulates the economy. I remind my colleagues, despite the rhetoric about bipartisanship, this bill originated in the House of Representatives, as is constitutionally appropriate. There was no Republican input whatsoever. It passed the other body on a strict party-line basis with the loss of 11 Democrats and came over to this body, where in both the Appropriations and the Finance Committees, almost every Republican amendment was rejected on party lines.
I appreciate very much that the President of the United States came over to address Republican Members of the Senate and Republican Members of the House. The tenor of his remarks I think was excellent. But the fact is, we did not sit down and seriously negotiate between Republican and Democrat. I have been involved in many bipartisan efforts in this body, for many years, that have achieved legislative result. The way you achieve it is not to come over and talk to a body. The answer is to sit down and seriously negotiate and come up with compromises which result in legislation which is good for the country.
That has not happened in this process. Again, the American people are figuring it out. I am confident, because of the way this process has taken place, that gap, which is now 43-37, the majority of the American people opposing this package, will grow.
A majority of the American people still believe we have to stimulate the economy and create jobs. I agree with them. But to spend $1.2 trillion on it, and have no provision for when the economy recovers to put us back on the path of fiscal sanity and stability--as the amendment that I had last night was rejected; we got 44 vote--does not provide the American people with confidence that spending will stop at some time.
One thing they have learned is that spending programs that are initially supposed to be temporary become permanent. They become permanent. That is a historical fact.
So we have initiated nearly $1 trillion--many in new spending, some hundreds of billions of dollars in new spending--with no provision, once the economy has recovered--and the economy will recover in America--this is no path to balancing the budget. Instead, we laid a $700 billion debt on future generations of America in the form of TARP, we are laying $1.2 trillion additional in the form of this bill, and another half a trillion dollars in the omnibus appropriations bill, and then we are told there will be a necessity for another TARP, which could be as much as $1 trillion, because of our declining economy. Yet there has been no provision whatsoever, once the economy recovers, to put us back on a path to balancing the budget and reducing and perhaps eliminating--hopefully eliminating--this debt we have laid on future generations of Americans.
I used to come down to the floor here, and have over the years, and argue against provisions in appropriations bills--which, by the way, has led to corruption. I notice there is another individual staffer who is being charged today, or yesterday, for inappropriate behavior with Mr. Abramoff.
There used to be hundreds of thousands and sometimes thousands. Now, they are in the millions and billions, tens of millions and billions. My how we have grown.
Do we need $1 billion for national security at the Nuclear Security Administration Weapons Activities to create jobs? We may need $1 billion for National Nuclear Security Administration Weapons Activity, but to say it will create jobs and will stimulate the economy is a slender reed.
There is nobody who appreciates more than this person the contribution that Filipino war veterans made to winning the Second World War. We are going to give millions of dollars to those who live in the Philippines. Do not label that as job stimulation.
Smoking cessation is something that we all support. How does $75 million for smoking cessation create jobs within the next years that would justify expenditures of $75 million?
This body, in the name of increasing health care for children, raised taxes by some $61 billion, I guess it is, on tobacco use. So we now hope people will use tobacco in order to pay for insurance for children. But the fact is, $75 million for smoking cessation should be an issue that is brought up separately and on its own. And the list goes on and on and on.
Our proposal--I am grateful for the participation of so many Senators--would allocate approximately $275 billion in tax cuts. It would eliminate the 3.1 percent payroll tax for all employees for 1 year and use general revenues to pay for the Social Security obligation.
It would allocate $60 billion to lower the 10-percent tax bracket to 5 percent for 1 year. It would lower the 15-percent tax bracket to 10 percent for 1 year. It would lower corporate tax brackets from 35 percent to 25 percent for 1 year.
[Page: S1619] GPO's PDF
We alarmed the world with the ``Buy American'' provisions which are included in this bill. The reaction has been incredible, and the fact is, jobs flee America for a number of reasons. But one of them is we have the highest business taxes of any nation in the world. We used to have among the lowest.
So if we really want to create jobs in America and attract capital and investment for the United States of America, we need to lower the corporate tax bracket. We need to have accelerated depreciation for capital investments for small businesses. We need to assist Americans in need, there is no doubt about that. There are Americans who are wounded and are hurting today. It is not their fault.
We need to extend the unemployment insurance benefits. That is a $38 billion pricetag. We need to extend food stamps. We need to extend unemployment insurance benefits, make them tax free. That is a $10 billion pricetag. And, of course, we need to provide workers with training and employment. That is a $50 billion cost.
We need to keep families in their homes. We needed, and we did adopt last night, the $15,000 tax credit. But we also need to fund the increase in the fee that servicers receive from continuing a mortgage and avoiding foreclosure. We need to have GSE and FHA conforming loan limits. That is $32 billion. We also, by the way, need to do more in the housing area.
You know, it is interesting in all of these spending proposals we have, there is not one penny for defense, not one penny. Obviously, we are going to have to reset our military. We need to replace the aging equipment that has been used so heavily in Iraq and will be needed in Afghanistan.
We need to improve and repair and modernize the barracks, the facilities and infrastructure that directly support the readiness and training of the Armed Forces. We do not have that in the now $995 billion package that is before us. Obviously, we need to spend money on military construction projects which will create jobs immediately. Those people who say that is not the case, I can provide for the record adequate information that many of our military construction projects could begin more quickly than those that are not on our military bases because of environmental and other concerns.
We need to spend $45 billion on transportation infrastructure. There are grants to States to build and repair roads and bridges, including $10 billion for discretionary transportation grants, and $1 billion for roads on Federal lands. Public transit, obviously, we need to fund, and airport infrastructure improvements are necessary, along with small business loans. That is about $63 billion in our proposal.
Finally, the American people believe, and I think correctly, spending is out of control in our Nation's Capital. We continue to spend and spend and spend. We not only have accumulated over a $10 trillion deficit, this will add another $1 trillion or more. I mentioned the TARP of $700 billion, all of which is being paid for--we are printing money in order to fund it.
At some point we are going to have to get our budget balanced or our children and our grandchildren are going to pay the bill. I recommend that this body hear as much as possible from David Walker, former head of the Government Accountability Office, in the Congress of the United States. He paints a stark picture. In my view, it is also time that we establish entitlement commissions: one for Social Security and one for Medicare-Medicaid and make recommendations so we can act on what is a multi-trillion-dollar deficit in Social Security and over a $40 trillion debt on Medicare and Medicaid.
Unless we address these long-term entitlement issues, there is no way we are going to be able to prevent the majority of Americans' taxes from being devoted to those two programs. So we need to establish those commissions and we need to put them to work and we need to put them to work right away.
Now, I am told there is general agreement. Why not do it now? Why not do it now? We also need better accountability, better transparency, better oversight, and better results. Among many disappointments we have over TARP, one was that we were told the Congress and the American people would have oversight and transparency, and they would know exactly how that initial $350 billion was being spent.
The American people and Members of Congress have been bitterly disappointed as TARP shifted from one priority to another. Funds went to the automotive industry, which none of us had anticipated when we voted for and approved it. We need more transparency and accountability and oversight of how this, probably the biggest single emergency spending package in the history of this country, is being spent.
I notice I have other Members here who wish to speak on this issue. I hope we can pass this alternative, some $421 billion, to what has now surged to over $1 trillion. It probably may not pass for the reasons of numbers, but if we do not sit down and negotiate and come up with a package that is more than a $50- or $60- or $80 billion reduction, when we are talking about $1.2 trillion, the American people will not be well served.
They will not be well served by requiring Davis-Bacon, they will not be well served by requiring ``Buy American,'' they will not be well served by spending their hard-earned dollars on unnecessary programs that even though in the eyes of some may have virtue, have no or very little association with job creation and relief for Americans who are struggling to stay in their homes and either keep their jobs or go out and find a new one.
I believe the United States of America will recover from the economic crisis. I have a fundamental faith, belief, that American workers are the most productive, the most innovative, and the best in the world. But they need some help right now. What they need is the right kind of help.
I urge my colleagues, when you see the money that is being spent in the name of job creation and stimulus that is laying a debt burden on our children and our grandchildren, we need to have serious consideration of this kind of spending because it is not fair, not only to this generation of Americans but to future generations as well.
You should be asking all those people who voted for the ban. nm
nm
The will of the people voted Obama in
and the will of the people voted down gay marriage. There is no gray area.
Most people who voted for the O will never admit
they were wrong. Even as they are being led to the camps they will never come out and say they were wrong if they believe they were.
Oh well, half the people who voted for O have no
nm
yes, and many people who voted for Obama can think for themselves too
NOW will people admit they only voted for him...
Because he was black?
Are you watching the CNN coverage? It's like the ONLY reason today is an 'historic event' is the color of O's skin. If that's why you voted for him, fine, but at least have the guts to admit it.
Let's not forget that O's family had DIDDLY to do with Civil Rights movement, so there's NO REASON to dub him the new MLK. (CNN just called him 'The Healer' which makes me want to vomit.)
His father was African, not African-American, so he has ZERO claim to the whole 'we've been oppressed for six hundred years' BS. His family was more likely slave OWNERS than slaves.
It's absolutely LAUGHABLE. Is this an innauguration or the BET Awards?
Bash away, haters. Right back at ya.
He is NOT Lincoln. He is NOT Kennedy. He is NOT MLK. Of course, those men all have something in common......
.....they all had more going for them than fabulous PR.
Reality - most of the people voted for him only because of his race
Even had to clear my ears a few times as I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Most of the people who voted for Obama voted for him only because his race. There are few out there who educated themselves and truly believed in his ideas, hopes and dreams. The rest...when they were told McCain's policies and asked if that's why they were voting for Obama they said yes. Others were asked the question, "So if Obama wins President you wouldn't mind having Sarah Palin as the VP" they said "no not at all I think she'd make a fine VP". Most think like they do and I heard many people reveal that they are voting for him simply because he is black and it's time we need a black president.
The "level-headed" people here voted for McCain.
nm
I always thought the same thing about you! sm
Small world, huh? I always thought you were the one posting as everyone else because most of the posts on here are all the same. I remember on the old board when it had the times and they all showed up at the same time, too. I guess paranoia works both ways.
I thought the same thing.
Just look at who employs more woman and how they are paid. You will definitely see Obama not practicing what he preaches on this subject. Like Sam said, McCain has more women on his staff and they are paid well.
Seriously think about that before you make that your reason for voting for Obama.
I thought the same thing.
That was just ridiculous.
One other thing I thought of
as I was reading your post and was thinking - he is a great speaker. He has a very deep and calming voice and I think that is a large part as to why a lot of people like him. I've always said he would be a very calming person in any emergency situation (I'll bet he was a great coach when his wife was giving birth). No doubt that he is a very charismatic person like Bill Clinton was, but one thing I have found out is that he does not think very well on his own and is way too dependent on teleprompters. Like you said though, there are many times he'll be speaking and I too say, "He didn't just say that did he? Quick, give him a teleprompter" And I too think "and they made fun of Palin?" :-o
I would keep my ears and eyes open though for the "anything is possible" situation.
I thought the same thing. Wow.
I thought the same thing.
When I read that....I was like....how in the he!! did they not make that connection. Unless they obviously don't any attention to ads whatsoever.
Isn't that like a federal crime to threaten the president's life? I know this person didn't actually threaten to kill Obama, but is wishing him to be assassinated enough to land them in jail?
ROFL. Thought the same thing.
Not Krispy Kreme! Why God....Why? In this time of economic crisis.....WE NEED COMFORT FOOD!!!! 
I thought the same thing but was wrong
Have gotten to finally draw mine after all those longgggg years. One thing that I wish others would do and that is not be so early to retire if healthy to stay on. Think it would be almost impossible for most to retire at my age and then find another job, at least outside of MTing.
Dejavu(sp). I thought the same thing! (nm)
.
to clarify - the baby's safety is the first thing I thought of that was worrisome..
it appeared tacky to me to use the baby in such a way. When I re-read my post I guess it could have been taken differently than it was meant. anywho - it is not a choice I would have made as a mother...
The DNC thought people would be so...
enraptured with him none of this would matter...and this board is indicative that a LOT of people bought into it. It does not matter what comes out about him...it is going to be rationalized or part of a vast right wing conspiracy or a "pub" smear job. AMAZING.
At first I thought these people pushing the b/c issue
were just plain ole MTs with inquiring minds, however, wrong they might be. The poster above who said "put your money where your mouth is" finally got a light bulb to come on in my brain. These people have an agenda, whatevier it may be, but it is NOT the Constitution or they would have trampled Bush a long time ago. I doubt they are MTs. I believe they have an agenda that is way darker than the birth certificate issue and I am going to keep posting to their posts so that hopefully unsuspecting, well-meaning MTs might THINK and see them for what they are.
People thought Bush was so bad, under Obama,
nm
I thought you guys DESPISED rich people and would rather they be
x
My mistake...I thought you only tolerated like-minded people....
hence Berkeley.
I thought hateful people were banned from this forum
I thought he gave a good speech. I hope all people listened
NM
What an elitist thing to say. No, these are the people
who have lost their jobs, have had any raises or pay increased put on hold, the people whose companies have changes insurances and the decuctible are ridiculous. These are the people who may have had unexpected medical expenses. These are the people who are living paycheck to paycheck because they have run through the savings to pay for gas to get to work. These are the people who are having to pay for certain things for their kids to go or get to school because the schools can't afford it anymore, i.e. books and the bus. If you think the only people suffering through that are the people who are wasting all of their money smoking and drinking, you are ignorant.
the sad thing Sam is soooo many people
scares me so much I cannot even begin to explain. :(
The thing that most people don't comprehend is....sm
that Muslim is not the key word, radical is. The Koran teaches peace. Radical Muslims are not peacemakers, just as radicals of any religion are not peacemakers. They use their basic religious beliefs to advance their own agendas in the name of God. God wants us to love each other unconditionally, rich or poor, ill or well, smart or ignorant, etc., help each other, sacrifice for those less fortunate. Don't get met started.
There is NO SUCH THING. MY goodness, you people
should not take stuff so literally. Of course, there is no "pool" of any sort. Maybe that poster was joking. Lighten up!
Here's the thing that most people miss....(sm)
In my opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you not agreeing with homosexuality, thinking its wrong, immoral, etc. If you don't want to associate with them, that's fine. Don't do it.
Here's the problem though. More often than not, people with opinions like yours feel that they have to force that opinion on everyone. That's where the problem is. I believe in live and let live, not live and make others live like you.
These people would not give Palin credit for a thing.
nm
Yeah, it was, sorry.....I just don't think poking fun at sick people is a good thing to do....
and that was the thread. I think we are ALL better than that, much better things to talk about than that. So, I apologize...I will keep my indignation on the part of those who are the butt of jokes because of physical deformities to myself. I am better than stinging rebuttals myself..I will take my own advice.
Have a good day, vv, my friend.
Dems voted for it, Biden voted for it....
Bill Clinton signed it into law. Plenty of blame to go around. McCain asked for regulation of Fannie/Freddie in 2005. Dems blocked it. The Dem record is slightly worse in the regulation/deregulation arena.
But...plenty of blame to go around.
I just thought it might be nice to hear an original thought. sm
I guess I was reaching.
Thought this was good so I thought I'd share
Down the drain? Beware of Obama's plan to 'spread the wealth around'
By Betsy Newmark
High School History and Government Teacher/Blogger
If the McCain campaign can’t use this Obama quote to raise doubts about his attitude towards wealth and success, then they deserve the shellacking they seem headed for.
“Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?” the plumber asked, complaining that he was being taxed “more and more for fulfilling the American dream.”
“It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance for success too,” Obama responded. “My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody … I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”
Plumbers of the country, unite! Forget about the work and effort you put into building up a business or the scummy work that you do that many of us don’t know or don’t want to do. If you have succeeded, you should be willing to give up more of what you earn to help those who haven’t had the great good luck that you have had to be a successful plumber. Remember how Obama is going to give 95% of all of us a tax cut even though over 30% of the population doesn’t pay taxes?
He might call it a tax credit, but what he’s really doing is his vision of “spreading the wealth around.” It sounds a lot like Huey Long’s 1935 plan to “Share the Wealth.” And when he finds that he can’t tax the top 5% of the population to gain enough wealth to spread to the 95% of the rest of us, do you really think that he’ll stop with that 5%?
Remember…This is the guy who said in the ABC debate during the primary season that his approach to raising tax on capital gains is not based on whether it would provide more revenue but on his idea of what is fair:
GIBSON: All right. You have, however, said you would favor an increase in the capital gains tax. As a matter of fact, you said on CNBC, and I quote, “I certainly would not go above what existed under Bill Clinton,” which was 28 percent. It’s now 15 percent. That’s almost a doubling, if you went to 28 percent.
But actually, Bill Clinton, in 1997, signed legislation that dropped the capital gains tax to 20 percent.
OBAMA: Right.
GIBSON: And George Bush has taken it down to 15 percent.
OBAMA: Right.
GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down.
So why raise it at all, especially given the fact that 100 million people in this country own stock and would be affected?
OBAMA: Well, Charlie, what I’ve said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness.
Just what we need in these fragile economic times — a guy who wants to raise taxes because he thinks it’s a matter of “fairness” and time to “spread the wealth around.”
That will be some incentive for other plumbers who want to work hard and build up a successful business.
But don’t worry - according to Joe Biden, it’s the patriotic thing to do.
Haha! I thought I was the only one who thought he looked
But valuing over the price of a dollar is a right thing wing thing, so you are on the wrong board. n
x
I told you what I thought he thought....
and thank you so much for reducing it to "a piece."
That being said, here is link to article from Wall Street Journal about both candidates and outsourcing...Obama is not going to stop it either. He has said on the stump the answer is more highly educated American workers to compete.
It seems to me, and although you may think this is also a "piece," that if you put our corporate tax rates lower, if that corporation is inclined to hire Americans and not outsource then they will do so.
You honestly think the majority of corporations just WANT to outsource and taxes don't matter?
Think again - nothing has been voted on yet
I guess you really don't get it, do you. I don't care if McCain or Obama is ahead but these polls mean absolutely nothing. Nothing has been settled yet. If Obama wins on 11/4 then that's fine. If McCain wins on 11/4 then that's fine, but for pete's sake stop acting like children spinning that your candidate has already won and they have more this or that. I've been watching the news on every station and reading all the websites and I have not found anything yet to say one has more votes than the other. Polls mean diddly. The real thing will happen on 11/4. Til then it would be a good idea to put a lid on your arrogance.
Like I say either way I don't care. Whoever gets in gets in. Either way the country is really really screwed! The question now is do you want someone to tell you your screwed to your face or do you want some to hide it in fluff and make you feel good while your being screwed.
They all voted against us
No one in Washington is standing up for us. You are being pitted against each other by CNN and Fox. There is no difference between the two candidates at all. They are both wimps.
Had he done so I would have voted for him most likely
x
but he could have voted against it -
He did not have to sign that bill; even if it was for show because he knew it was going to pass, he could have not signed it just to prove the point that he does not support any pork barrel spending. Just goes to show, he is going to do whatever he wants to do when he gets in office - no matter what he promised. If he wants something done and he has to give away a lot of money to get it, he is going to give away a lot of money. He's no different than anyone else.
He voted against it, and he said why...
he said he was afraid that people would use the bill to somehow circumvent abortion rights. And for that he was willing to sacrifice even those babies who survived that heinous procedure. Does it matter WHY he voted against it? Does that change the fact that he DID?
i voted against O, however...
i strongly opposed obama in the white house. however, i do believe that now he is pres-elect, that we should be respectful and supportive in as much as possible. he may well surprise even me and change some of his positions and prove to be a much better leader than i would expect. i for one, will be praying for his wisdom and judgment.
or maybe he voted the way he said he voted
nm
Why they voted for him...
obama fan: "I won’t have to worry about putting gas in my car. I won’t have to worry about paying my mortgage because if I help him[Obama], he’s gonna help me.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI
Any questions? Get a grip, I am happy not to be associated with voters like this.
Like I said, the ones who voted for him
either think he is their precious EVERYTHING, were too scared about the economy and were willing to vote for ANYTHING, or the ones who just voted for him because he is BLACK! Not too much of an intelligent vote either way!!
Flame all you want!
You mean he voted something besides
Who knew?
I do believe that it was voted
on whether or not we went to war in Iraq and I do believe that many Dems were on board at that time as well as many Americans. It only became a problem with some when they realized how much money it was costing.
Personally, I feel we should leave the middle east alone and let them kill each other. However, when they strike on US turf.....they best get ready for a strike back.
As for the stuff that Obama has been handed.....I know his job can't be easy and I wouldn't take it no matter how much money I was offered......but I still cannot condone what he is doing. Taking the rights away from Catholic hospitals and making them perform abortions or lose their funding. The continued bailing out of banks with big bonuses being slipped in there. So many people in our government who have been appointed to positions and getting caught for not paying taxes but getting a get out of jail free card.
Obama not crooked? I'm sorry but look at the state he comes from. Illinois is full of crooked politicians. His associations alone make me question his morality. His attendance to a church of hate was overlooked as nothing. There are just so many things stacked against this man and yet so many people refuse to see it or just let it slide like it is nothing.
Obama has had enough free passes. This is my country and I have a right to question my government. To me this is not the time to be going to other countries and telling them how arrogant the US is and how everything is our fault. Just like every time Obama opens his mouth about his spending....he continually brings up Bush's spending instead of admitting his own excessive spending.
I'm tired of the government giving CEOs crap for having private jets when government officials waste more taxpayer money on planes, etc. It is just ridiculous. It is like the whole lot of them preaching "do as I say and not as I do." Absolutely ridiculous.
I just hope that come election time, we get some of these people out of office.....Frank, Dodd, Pelosi, Reid........
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