I meant why is everyone fighting (not defending) to let an independent party examine it.
Posted By: New Englander on 2008-11-26
In Reply to: Here - let me try to educate you on a couple of matters - New Englander
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I am an independent....neither party is "my" party.
THis election cycle I believe the best man is a Republican. Do your research. John McCain warned about this in 2005, named Fannie and freddie by name, co-sponsored legislation to control them. Blocked by Democrats, led by Chris Dodd..same guy now trying to fix what he and the Dems broke. Chris Dodd, #1 on contributions list from fannie/freddie, followed closely by #2, your shining knight Mr. Obama. The chickens have come home to roost all right...or should I say the donkeys. :)
I am independent....independent of either party.
I am registered with neither. And I am not really interested in your interpretation of what a Republican is or is not.
I was talking about Obama's stand as an Illinois state senator. Since I do not live in Illinois and was not one of his constituents that rather rude indictment of what I would or would not do is moot. Had I been a resident of Illinois you can bet your sweet bippy there would have been plenty of senator/representative contact.
Not voting for Obama DOES give me a clear conscience. Whatever calamity he wreaks, it will not be because I put him in charge. If he gets his way we will become a socialist state. That is something I do NOT want to be a part of. PERIOD.
INDEPENDENT PARTY
 The independent party has voted that they will back McCain. They have NO votes to back Obama whatsoever!!!!
which independent party?
Which one? There are a couple, at least:
The American Independent Party
The Independent American Party
Independence Party of America
I thought being an "independent" meant you didn't belong to any party...
Okay, but for the Independent Party, do
xx
I prefer to strengthen the Independent Party
nm
Okay...let's examine this...
You said: Very few liberals "tolerate" the war in Iraq. Most of us probably find it "intolerable."
I say: Okay. Then why did the liberals in Congress vote to go into Iraq? Because they did. I guess they are not part of the "most?"
You said: Just as many of us become nauseated by the right-winger(s) posting on this board under the pretense of "I just want to understand your position better" when the actual intent is to mock and belittle.
I say: Did you read the posts? All the momcking and belitting has been done by the liberals...Bush has a low IQ (a lie), Bush is a dumba$$...come onnnn. That is mocking and belitting. What I said about Clinton is the TRUTH. He is a liar and perjured himself, therefore is a perjurer. That is objective truth.
If you will go back and look at posts you accuse me of belitting, it was in response to being attacked or using a poster's word on back at them...what, a liberal can post "guffaw guffaw" and that is fine, but I answer one of their posts with "guffaw guffaw" and I am belitting? Double standard, does that ring a bell?
You said: "Liberal" also does not denote naive fool and you are fooling no one with your disingenous posts, hence the nausea you produce.
I say: Please explain what you mean? You don't know me. I made an honest effort to ask what a liberal was because I did want to understand it..and the variety of answers I got was really interesting. There are a few on this board who actually BELIEVE in live and let live, do not mind a debate, and like me, want to learn what regular people are thinking. But from your perspective, I am not a regular person...I am something to be reviled, ridiculed, and run back to "my own board." You know, that is reminiscent of the old Democratic party who preached segregation...yep, look it up, it was the Democratic party who voted against desegregation over and over again. And now you want to practice it again..only now you want to segregate conservatives. Wow. How INtolerant of you.
You say: I believe part of the quality of liberalism is to be accepting of others' lifestyles, belief systems,
I say: yeah, unless it is a conservative belieft system....
You say: race, color, creed, etc. but it is not to accept or tolerate cruelty, bigotry,
hatred, violence, etc.
This is such a basic concept I can't believe I'm explaining it!!
I say: Yeah it is a basic concept. Yeah you are explaining it. Trouble is, you explain it, but it does not translate into action. Your post to me is in opposition to most of what you said here. Apparently this wonderful concept extends only to other liberals...it sure doesn't extend to conservatives!
Let's examine this...
YOU SAID: We might as well be from two different planets. And, no we do not agree to disagree. Who are you to tell me? You started it by posting blather and you are grasping at straws. I never said he lied.
RESPONSE: Who am I to tell you what? What did I start? What does this rant mean? What straws am I grasping at? I posted that the man said "The surge is working." The man DID say that. What is wrong with posting the truth? Sheesh.
Does the thought never enter your mind that you might be wrong about something? Well of course not...what on earth am I thinking??
YOU SAID: Here's a thought, stop reading propaganda.
RESPONSE: Welllll in looking at your list of sites you invite me to try, you are in no position to tell ME to stop reading propaganda. And believe it or not, I have perused Iraq Daily, and Al-Jazeera. And saw exactly what I expected to see. Just as you do.
YOU SAID: Yes, I do NOT watch Fox News. It is the single most unreliable and biased news source in the world today.
RESPONSE: I can certainly see why you don't like Fox. Wayyy too upbeat and optimistic for you. Bet you don't like perky Katie Couric either, do you? lol.
YOU SAID: It is for those of low intelligence and malleable people who can't think for themselves.
RESPONSE: Does not deserve one. Just illustrates one of the more unattractive qualities of your brand of liberalism.
YOU SAID: I also watch very little CNN.
RESPONSE: Not liberal enough for you? One does occasionally see something positive on CNN. Can't have that, can we???
YOU SAID: When I watch American news it is MSNBC.
RESPONSE: Yeah, Chris Matthews should be right up your alley. You post a lot like he talks. I have tried to watch him a few times, but there is not enough room in the studio for his ego and anyone else's. Much like you and Taiga/Teddy on this board. But you think for yourselves, right? ;-)
YOU SAID: I travel the globe for information, because when you get more than one side of story, you can assimilate information and come to your own conclusion without having to rely on someone else to tell you.
RESPONSE: Well, it would help to have an open mind as you travel the globe....and you are "assimilating" the information and not relying on them to tell you, but you are relying on the information they give you in this assimililation...? And while you are intelligent enough to do so, I am not, right? And you have the nerve to call ME arrogant? lol.
YOU SAID:
You should try some of these on for size: World Press.org, Middle East Times, Iraqi News, Iraq Daily, The Independent, commondreams.org, WND Information Clearing House, and if you can possibly stand it, Aljazeera.com, and I could go on and on and on and on and on.
RESPONSE: I love your judgments as to what I read and do not read. Very arrogant of you to assume I only watch Fox. Part of the reason I do watch Fox along with other things is so that I don't descend into the sea of pessimism where it appears you abide. Thanks, but no thanks. I am a glass half full kind of person, clearly you are not.
Common Dreams...now there is an unbiased site. LOL. Just check out the list of contributors. You don't get much further to the left. You do exactly what you accuse me of...you go only where your ideas are substantiated and ridicule any site that does not. Very "democratic" and totally one-sided of you.
Al-Jazeera...yep, there is another totally unbiased news outlet. You are definitely a card carrying member of the hate America first club who would like to turn us into Europe Jr. Truthfully...as you invite me to jump over the fence to the other board...why don't you just jump the fence to Europe and become a citizen of the world like you want to be? Europe is already Europe. Don't have to change anything. Now before you get all hot and bothered and start screaming I am telling you to leave the country...I was simply asking a question. It would make sense that you would seek what you keep saying you want, that's all. Maybe you would not be so pessimistic living in the UK or France? Or Syria? Iran, maybe? No, that would not work, you would not keep your head long enough in a Muslim country. Not a woman with your attitude. And speaking of...if Hillary is elected that alone will do more to anger Muslims against us than any other single event. A WOMAN leading the country? Ahem. Can't wait for that foreign policy nightmare.
One would think that if you despise America (or half of Americans) so much, and love Europe and want to be a citizen of the world...am not understanding why you don't just do it.
YOU SAID: You want to be optimistic because you couldn't possibly face the fact that the whole thing is just WRONG. We shouldn't be there. You are looking to win something that isn't ours to claim.
RESPONSE: First of all, you again put wrods in my mouth. I do think things were done wrong with Iraq. But you cannot unscramble eggs. I do not want to win, piglet, I would like for the Iraqi people to win.
No, piglet, I am by nature an optimistic person. I have never been a doom and gloom kind of person. You have credited me with a lot of things I am not...you keep saying I am a Bush fan. I am not 100% a Bush fan. Have said numerous times I disagree with many things he has done. You say I want to win something.
As I said, I would like for the Iraqi people to win. Because you can't unscramble eggs, piglet. We are there. No matter how we got there, we are there. No matter why it was done, it is done. No matter how their country got in the shape its in, that is the shape its in. Even at all the sites you listed, they all have to start with basically the surge is working before the disclaimers start. "yeah, its working, violence is down, Iraqis have some semblance of a normal life again" and then start the disclaimers..."but can it be sustained" yada yada. All I am saying is that let's see if it can. Let's try to be positive about it instead of being constant naysayers. It has been getting steadily better since the surge. Why not see if continues? Why not hang in a bit and see if they are able to reconcile. The US did after our own civil war. It can be done. I guess I am optimistic enough to want to give it a chance rather than pull out and have another post Viet Nam debacle. Because that is who I am. There is always hope...well, at least for me there is. I am not sure you even know what hope is. We just have very different hearts.
However, I do not palpably dislike you. I believe in your right to expression as much as I believe in mine and would defend that and have. Sadly, that is where we part company. You post as if the very existence of people like me irks you. That is a much more divisive attitude than I have, piglet. You seem very angry, sound very frustrated, and it comes out in the posts. Yep, we are very different people. I do not find ridicule amusing. I am optimistic. And it does not make me angry because people do not agree with me. Would be kind of boring if everybody agreed on everything wouldn't it? Stepford-like.
It appears that you take comfort in feeling superior (that you are so much more intelligent and enlightened), and if that is the case, so be it.
For those who have a pessimistic view of life, when Iraq is finally resolved, something will take its place to draw your pessimism. For someone who purports to believe in the basic goodness of people...it is curiously absent from your posts. Or was that another definition of liberal from someone else?
You need to examine your behavior.
From the Conservative board.
The toxicity has become so potent that some of the cooler heads on the Left are starting to notice. Richard Cohen, writing in his Washington Post column today, describes his email, traffic after a mildly critical reference to Stephen Colbert’s unfunny performance at the White House Correspondents Dinner:
It seemed that most of my correspondents had been egged on to write me by various blogs. In response, they smartly assembled into a digital lynch mob and went roaring after me. If I did not like Colbert, I must like Bush. If I write for The Post, I must be a mainstream media warmonger. If I was over a certain age—which I am—I am simply out of it, wherever “it” may be. All in all, I was—I am, and I guess I remain—the worthy object of ignorant, false and downright idiotic vituperation. [….]
But the message in this case truly is the medium. The e-mails pulse in my queue, emanating raw hatred. This spells trouble—not for Bush or, in 2008, the next GOP presidential candidate, but for Democrats. The anger festering on the Democratic left will be taken out on the Democratic middle. (Watch out, Hillary!) I have seen this anger before—back in the Vietnam War era. That’s when the antiwar wing of the Democratic Party helped elect Richard Nixon. In this way, they managed to prolong the very war they so hated.
The hatred is back. I know it’s only words now appearing on my computer screen, but the words are so angry, so roiled with rage, that they are the functional equivalent of rocks once so furiously hurled during antiwar demonstrations.
DO we want to examine Joe Biden's...
"the presidency does not lend itself to on-the-job training" to "Barack Obama is ready for the job." ? ALL politicians are going to have those "words out of their own mouths" contradicting "words out of their own mouths." It is the nature of the beast.
Did you examine the evidence, or is article enough? nm
zz
Fighting a war to...........sm
try to keep Muslim extremist terrorists at bay and help create a more democratic government in a country overrun by Muslim extremists does make me feel safer.
Would you rather we just stop and let the Muslims take over our country as well? And don't think they won't....they have said themselves they would and it would be an inside job.
Did ya all know they are still fighting?
This morning I heard on the news that they came to a decision and cut around $100B from the package. I turned on CSpan and they're STILL fighting over it.
Now Kerry is fighting because I guess some of the things that were taking out is something he wanted in. I can't tell so far because I just put it on about 15 minutes ago. I had thought everything was settled and they would vote on Monday.
Probably fighting because....
it is half tax cuts and half spending - in view of that, it will never work.......
What isn't worth fighting for...
Probably a lot of things are worth fighting for...like liberty, to protect our country, to protect our values and ideals.
Unfortunately though it's been a long time since any wars were really fought for those things. They tell us that's what it's all about and we try to buy it, but if we happen to look at the facts closely, we just find out a lot of wealthy people get richer and they use the blood of other people's children to do it. They make up enemies and pour on the propaganda to rile us up so we'll think it's noble to go and die, and make them rich. That's how it seems to me anyway, and history certainly tends to back up that conclusion.
I think the last time we were fighting for worthwhile things was when we wore animal skins and carried wooden spears.
They are fighting. And they are dying for their cause. sm
Every single day they are fighting. They have a trained military now. They also have their police force. Many of them have given up their lives for the cause. It takes time to train a military.
Well....if I was fighting for my life....
I would much rather have Sarah at my back than Joe Biden or Barack Obama. In a HEARTBEAT.
fighting for a perfect
Move to Pakistan and fight the Taliban.
The CON board is dead. No fighting going on there.
They need to fight like a fish needs water.
I used to be mad at them. Now I pity their poor, sad lives if the only pleasure they get is from trying to cause discomfort to others. Either way, they are unpleasant, tedious and offer nothing substantive, intelligent or worthwhile.
I say we ignore them and not even read their posts any more.
They're toxic.
Do you have a problem with fighting terrorism?
You only care that Bush possibly lied in regards to intelligence gathering. You seem to have no clue that good intelligence means you don't spout all your secrets to the American public and sometimes *gasp* to the congress. The congress does not specialize in intelligence gathering much less what to do with it once they have it. There are reasons there are different levels of access within the CIA and FBI. There is a need for covert operations. Read some John Grisham novels or better than fiction based on real events read some books about what the CIA actually does. You might be shocked to find out that they keep things top secret and may lie to people at times for the good of this country.
No more fussing and fighting...a video instead!
Here's something touching, 99% guaranteed to lead to a tear, or two.
Fighting for your parental rights
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=412082
You spend plenty of time cat fighting when
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At least she isnt fighting the court by refusing
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Hey, the palestinians have been fighting and LOSING. They've been given every
opportunity to coexist peacefully, to have their own state, their own government --- THEY CHOSE TO FIGHT!
And Israel has offered up land that is rightfully theirs only to have the palestinians kill their innocents with suicide bombers.
Let's face it, with the fighting going on on this board, if we cannot come to agreements here....
How are all those politicians with not only different ideologies, but so many constituents and special interests, going to play nice, put the people and America first, put their Harvard/Yale educations to work, and vote compassionately, intelligently, and with fore-thought??? If the fighting here is any barometer as far as partisan politics goes, boy are we ever in for it!
Not that she needs defending . . . sm
All of you haters have the nerve to call JTBB hateful? Are you kidding or extremely delusional? Don't bother -- I already know the answer to that one. First of all, just look at your comments. Very scary stuff, i must say, and extremely immature. Anybody with a brain can read the comments on this board and know who is hate-filled and it sure ain't JTBB. Should I run through the list of those on your hate list? Let's see: Democrats, homosexuals, non-Christians, anyone not American, your own President and ANYONE who has a different opinion than yours. When I read comments like these, I picture a crazed mob with pitchforks in hand out for blood! Pretty picture, huh?
As for the comment about JTBB going to the Faith board, I have read some of the very adult discussions she has had there, and they are nothing but thought-provoking, backed by historical or theological facts, and have a genuine curiosity about what Christians believe and is NEVER degrading, condescending or goading in any way, and usually the posters she engages there are likewise adult and willing to have an honest discourse without attacking or being as hateful as you people here.
"First they laughed at us...and then they died." (Hope your're proud of this very threatening comment; you should really seek some help).
"JTBB is the most bigoted voice on here." (Guess you don't listen to yourself much, do you?)
". . .no problem going to the Faith board in the hopes of goading someone into a fight."
I find most of the anger and and outright hatred expressed on this forum extremely distasteful and very disturbing and it makes me ashamed to share the same industry with people like you, as I consider the medical field to usually require a compassionate type of personality, and I see none of that here.
There is no defending this action. SM
But what makes you think this guy is a conservative? Did he say that. I read this and I don't see him making a statement. Your signs don't even begin to measure up to mine. I would have thought the cesspool DU could have come up with better than that.
I am not necessarily defending them.
I am trying to make people have a broader view of them. Gadfly seemed to be headed in that direction, but, of course, that was too much for you to bear. One mind, I know the drill. Hateful? Not at all. Truth, gt. It's called truth. It's my truth and I am sticking to it. More might be truthful with you if they weren't afraid of getting their leg chewed off to the knee. You won't argue with me, because you can't. You don't operate on logic, you operate on emotion. Kill the messenger was invented as a slogan exactly for people like you. If you move outside your comfort zone, you attack the messenger, cut them off at the knees, with an airy 'this just isn't worth discussing' or some such. Surely, I am not the first to have pointed this out to you. I won't be the last either. I have had my fill. My expectations were far too high on finding this board. I will move on along, before you revoke my privileges. As far as racism, I posted many excellent examples of it up at the top of the board, not that you would read it. I can imagine that you are the type who never reads posts, only the headings, or at the very least a line or two, and then just responds out of sheer emotion. One can do that on chat boards. How you get away with it in life, I have an idea. I won't say it here though, lest you endanger yourself with a stroke at hearing the truth.
Geez. Of course I would be defending her....
her wealth has NOTHING to do with it. She is a first-time offender. You hate her because she is rich, that's obvious. I don't care how much money she has or does not have. She is a first offender. She should be treated like any other first offender. Barack Obama AND John McCain are for rehab, not incarceration, for first-time offenders. Neither of them tie it to wealth. Barack Obama is a millionaire. What if we were talking about Michelle Obama instead of Cindy McCain? You would be screaming at the top of your lungs to defend Michelle Obama and guess what...SO WOULD I. Even though I don't want her husband to be President and even though they are RICH. Your bias is showing.
defending these thugs? Wow,
nm
Defending Obama
He does not really need defending. He is out there for all to see. There will always be a fringe element passing along conspiracy theories and innuendo -- that's what the Atwaters of the world depend on. The sensible majority has spoken and Obama was elected. I have noticed that traffic at this site has dropped drastically since the neocons were so soundly trounced. I would expect that the few remaining will eventually run out of gas as Obama continues to forge ahead with his principled approach to the country's problems. Future's so bright I have to wear shades. Obama and Michelle interviewed by Barbara Walters tonight - a happy pre-Thanksgiving treat.
P.S. Thank you for defending our country and
keeping us free.
I'm not defending Republicans. sm
If Bush were still President, they would sign the bill. Both sides are bunch of rats to me.
None of you are doing a good job in defending
nm
Anyone defending what Garofalo said the other day
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stop defending the rich
Either you are rich or a fool..Do you actually think the rich are defending us the way you are defending them? We need to take care of the people who carry America on their backs, the middle class. The rich could not care less about us. They dont even know the workings of every day life. I have an extremely well off friend..he does not use credit cards..pays with cash..told me I should just pay with cash for my new Jeep that I bought a few years ago instead of monthly payments..yeah, right, LOL..thanks for the advice...moon beam..he never even used an ATM..thinks being rich is justified cause they can show us Renoir paintings (as when Bellagio had Steve Wynns paintings on show), they can show the little people the beauty of life..Oh geez..the rich do not even realize that the middle class exists..other than to work at their companies and factories, so they can stay rich.
Not defending violent protesters, but for the 10,000 others
nm
It gets tiring defending her too, but some people are
nm
I too am for defending innocent animals
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. ALL animals should be treated in a humane fashion.
I am offended that people will defend wildlife and endangered species but they think nothing of eating meat and animals that have been treated cruelly.
How can you say it's cruel to hunt animals, but you don't think it's cruel how chickens, cattle, pigs and other animals are treated before you (no, not you personally because I don't know if your a vegetarian) but people who are not vegetarians will think nothing and don't care how the animals they are eating are being treated.
He called you a 'crone', why do you keep defending him?...nm
nm
So you have nothing to offer when it comes to defending Bennett's statements...sm
as you posted earlier that they were taken out of context. When asked to enlighten us on the context, you instead want to take Zauber to task. I know why, because there is no defense for these statements and a sound minded person wouldn't even try. Even the dupes on capitol hill are criticizing the statements.
No, you're too busy defending an incompetent
I am not defending the thugs. Read my post again. Thanks.
nm
Thank the dems for defending Freddie, Fannie,etc.
nm
Read on down. Some posters below are defending Bennett's remarks...sm
so while you may feel they are wrong, which I think the white house was right to condemn them. BENNETT having served in two high positions, Secretary of education and over drugs under Bush Sr with these views, is worrisome.
I think his true *colors* are shining through.
working poor and middle class need defending not rich
Believe me, the rich do not need to be defended. They are getting along just fine and can pay for the best defense in the world. Debating about how the rich should have their money, on and on..if anyone needs defending, it is the working poor and the middle class whose salary for the past five years has gone down, not increased.
You've got to be kidding me? Defending their actions and blaming on Bush?
Sure, they have a right to be "activists" and to march and to protest. They do not have a right to smash in windows and vandalize property. What's worse is that many of these are not ativists. They have NO IDEA what they are protesting against. Ask them who the vice president of our country is, they can't tell you. They are young foolish kids who think it's fun to be out there causing trouble and posing as "activists" with a cause. It's rather inane to equate these things with true activists.
And my grandfather died in WWII, defending the country where you live now in freedom (nm)
x
Sam, how can you say you are an independent? sm
From your posts it appears you are a staunch republican. You know the saying, if it walks and quacks like a duck, Quack, Quack!
I too am an independent
In independent to me means not belonging to either party. You can be an independent and fervently support one candidate over the other. It means finding the better of the worst and not buying into the party line. I think people need to start comparing Obama's expereince with McCain's experience. If you want to compare Palin with anyone you need to compare her with the opposite parties VP candidate. But people are comparing Obama to Palin because there is no way they can win if they compare him to McCain. I am an independent, but the more I read, the more I listen to all the networks, the more I hear Palin's family getting "politically gang raped" the more I want to know why and the less I trust the liberals. I am an independent. Years ago I supported Bill Clinton til the end, I didn't support either Gore or Bush and the next term I didn't support either Kerry or Bush. Now I support McCain. That is because I can stand back and look at what both McCain & Obama have done. How they have voted in the senate, what they have done with their careers, how they want to lead the country, etc. and I can view it all with an open mind. That makes me and independent.
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