I don't share her views but no need to ban her. nm

• Anyone been wondering just how much longer - See Message
  • yes it's really horrible when someone so much smarter than you - is on the other side
  • I don't share her views but no need to ban her. nm - Just don't read or respond to her posts
  • You can't handle someone - Chele
  • I guess you dislike intelligent answers - Truth hurts, don't it
  • No the bully is a democrat who changes her name daily (sm) - Flib. Chortle. Gulch
  • Um, excuse me, since when did giving - sm
  • Filibustering is what repubs do best. - Sounds like congress
    • You really think it is coordinated? You're being paranoid. sm - No, no one is coordinating
    • Both sides are stubborn - don't put everything on one side - just me
  • you have a personal vendetta against her and... - we're tired of hearing this
  • but why? - cj
    • I will stick up for Sam, too. -not a bully. - One of the smartest people here.nm
      • I have to disagree with you on that. - She's pushy. (nm) - KJ
        • and I disagree with you so - Backwards typist

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That's what makes America so great.  The freedom of all people to have different views, based on different principles (religious or otherwise).  And I would certainly fight to the death for your freedom of speech to say whatever you believe.

I firmly believe in a woman's right to choose as much as I firmly DON'T believe in partial birth abortions.  That's my opinion.  That doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make it wrong.  It just makes it my opinion.

As such, I don't feel I have the right to force my opinion on someone who might feel differently.  I believe this is a privacy issue, based on an individual's religious/spiritual beliefs (or lack thereof if that is the case) and not an issue that should be overturned because one Supreme Court Judge believes her religious views should be imposed on an entire nation.  Harriet Miers answered a questionnaire (I believe) in 1989, wherein not only did she say she's against Roe v. Wade, but she also promised to use the *influence* of her elected office to ban abortion.  If she has, in the past, promised to use the influence of her elected office to effect such a ban, why wouldn't she do the same with an appointed office?  The only solid *qualification* she has is her anti-choice religious views, which happen to coincide with those of Bush's *base.*  America has a lot of brilliant legal scholars and attorneys and judges who have devoted their entire careers specializing on Constitutional issues.  Why wasn't one of THOSE people considered for this appointment?

Regarding euthanasia, I can promise you right now that if I am ever terminally ill with an incurable disease and my pain progresses to the point where I just want to die with some dignity and not endure agonizing pain any longer, I certainly will not permit a bunch of people who have never met me to claim they know what's best for me and force me to obey THEIR religious beliefs and die on THEIR terms.  This notion is so arrogant on its face, it's even hard to write about.  I would hope my physician would be caring and compassionate and assist me in ending my suffering if I were to reach that level of agony.  Why do we show more kindness and compassion to our pets than we do to our humans?  My own spiritual beliefs would not preclude me from doing that, and I refuse to be forced to obey YOUR religious beliefs.  If forced to do so, then MY freedom of religion ceases to exist.

These are definitely privacy issues that, in my opinion, should be left to individuals.  What if the *right* religious belief in this country doesn't believe in contraceptives?  Will they be outlawed, as well?  That's not as far-fetched as it sounds. 

As far as dwindling morals in this country, I agree there are more heinous crimes being committed, particularly against children, than I can ever recall, and I'm outraged that our children are allowed to be raped and murdered, with the perpetrators of those crimes receiving what seem to be minimal prison sentences. 

I also think it's clearly immoral that our ability to live or die is directly related to the number of dollars we have in our wallet.  Healthcare in this country has become a very immoral commodity, along with legal care.  I find it disgustingly immoral that American children are starving to death every day.

Morality has to come from someone's heart.  It can't be forced, and it can't be legislated.  Each of us has our own conscience, our own soul, and our own *creator.*  Mine might not be the same as yours.  It doesn't mean one is right or one is wrong.  Just different.  That's the beauty of America:  Freedom of religion for all.

I can only end this as I started it, by saying that's what makes America so great.  The freedom of all people to have different views, based on different principles (religious or otherwise). 

Thanks for posting.  I appreciate the opportunity to engage in a debate with someone who is friendly and respectful and doesn't resort to calling names.  And I do respect your opinion and especially your right to say it, even though I respectfully disagree. 

(This, of course, pertained to CLINTON.  You can break the law, fake reasons to start a war and illegally spy on Americans, but don't you DARE have sex!!!!  I wonder how many of these holier-than-thou people have the courage or ethics to repeat these words today, pertaining to BUSH.)

Rep. Marge Roukema (R-N.J.):
And we all share in the emotional trauma getting back to our subject of this constitutional crisis in which we are ensnared. But this cup cannot pass us by, we can't avoid it, we took an oath of office, Mr. Speaker, to uphold the Constitution under our democratic system of government, separation of powers, and checks and balances.

And we must fulfill that oath and send the articles of impeachment to the Senate for a trial. Now I say personally, and all of you who know me, and a lot of you do, I've been around a long time; I bear no personal animosity towards the president. But we in the House did not seek this constitutional confrontation.

Rep. J.C. Watts (R-Okla.):
How can we expect a Boy Scout to honor his oath if elected officials don't honor theirs? How can we expect a business executive to honor a promise when the chief executive abandons his or hers?

Rep. Richard K. Armey (R-Tex.):
How did this great nation of the 1990s come to be? It all happened Mr. Speaker, because freedom works. . . . But freedom, Mr. Speaker, freedom depends upon something. The rule of law. And that's why this solemn occasion is so important. For today we are here to defend the rule of law. According to the evidence presented by our fine Judiciary Committee, the president of the United States has committed serious transgressions.

Among other things, he took an oath to God, to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And then he failed to do so. Not once, but several times. If we ignore this evidence, I believe we undermine the rule of law that is so important that all America is. Mr. Speaker, a nation of laws cannot be ruled by a person who breaks the law. Otherwise, it would be as if we had one set of rules for the leaders and another for the governed. We would have one standard for the powerful, the popular and the wealthy, and another for everyone else.

This would belie our ideal that we have equal justice under the law. That would weaken the rule of law and leave our children and grandchildren with a very poor legacy. I don't know what challenges they will face in their time, but I do know they need to face those challenges with the greatest constitutional security and the soundest rule of fair and equal law available in the history of the world. And I don't want us to risk their losing that....

Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-WI):
The framers of the Constitution devised an elaborate system of checks and balances to ensure our liberty by making sure that no person, institution or branch of government became so powerful that a tyranny could be established in the United States of America. Impeachment is one of the checks the framers gave the Congress to prevent the executive or judicial branches from becoming corrupt or tyrannical.

Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas):
When someone is elected president, they receive the greatest gift possible from the American people, their trust. To violate that trust is to raise questions about fitness for office. My constituents often remind me that if anyone else in a position of authority -- for example, a business executive, a military officer of a professional educator -- had acted as the evidence indicates the president did, their career would be over. The rules under which President Nixon would have been tried for impeachment had he not resigned contain this statement: The office of the president is such that it calls for a higher level of conduct than the average citizen in the United States.

Rep. Charles Canady (R-Fla.):
Many have asked why we are even here in these impeachment proceedings. They have asked why we can't just rebuke the president and move on. That's a reasonable question. And I certainly understand the emotions behind that question. I want to move on. Every member of this committee wants to move on. We all agree with that.

But the critical question is this: Do we move on under the Constitution, or do we move on by turning aside from the Constitution? Do we move on in faithfulness to our own oath to support and defend the Constitution, or do we go outside the Constitution because it seems more convenient and expedient?

Why are we here? We are here because we have a system of government based on the rule of law, a system of government in which no one -- no one -- is above the law. We are here because we have a constitution.

A constitution is often a most inconvenient thing. A constitution limits us when we would not be limited. It compels us to act when we would not act. But our Constitution, as all of us in this room acknowledge, is the heart and soul of the American experiment. It is the glory of the political world. And we are here today because the Constitution requires that we be here. We are here because the Constitution grants the House of Representatives the sole power of impeachment. We are here because the impeachment power is the sole constitutional means granted to Congress to deal with the misconduct of the chief executive of the United States.

In many other countries, a matter such as this involving the head of government would have been quietly swept under the rug. There would, of course, be some advantages to that approach. We would all be spared embarrassment, indignity and discomfort. But there would be a high cost if we followed that course of action. Something would be lost. Respect for the law would be subverted, and the foundation of our Constitution would be eroded.

The impeachment power is designed to deal with exactly such threats to our system of government. Conduct which undermines the integrity of the president's office, conduct by the chief executive which sets a pernicious example of lawlessness and corruption is exactly the sort of conduct that should subject a president to the impeachment power.

Rep. Bob Ingliss (R-S.C.):
I think is important to point out here is that we have a constitutional obligation, a constitutional obligation to act. And there are lots of folks who would counsel, Listen, let's just move along. It's sort of the Clinton so-what defense. So what? I committed perjury. So what? I broke the law. Let's just move along. I believe we've got a constitutional obligation to act.

Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.):

Mr. Chairman, this is a somber occasion. I am here because it is my constitutional duty, as it is the constitutional duty of every member of this committee, to follow the truth wherever it may lead. Our Founding Fathers established this nation on a fundamental yet at the time untested idea that a nation should be governed not by the whims of any man but by the rule of law. Implicit in that idea is the principle that no one is above the law, including the chief executive

Since it is the rule of law that guides us, we must ask ourselves what happens to our nation if the rule of law is ignored, cheapened or violated, especially at the highest level of government. Consider the words of former Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, who was particularly insightful on this point. In a government of laws, the existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. If government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for the law. It invites every man to become a law unto himself.

Mr. Chairman, we must ask ourselves what our failure to uphold the rule of law will say to the nation, and most especially to our children, who must trust us to leave them a civilized nation where justice is respected.

Rep. Steve Buyer (R-Ind.):
You know, there are people out all across America every day that help define the nation's character, and they exercise common-sense virtues, whether it's honesty, integrity, promise-keeping, loyalty, respect, accountability, they pursue excellence, they exercise self-discipline. There is honor in a hard day's work. There's duty to country. Those are things that we take very seriously.

So those are things that the founders also took seriously. Yet every time I reflect upon the wisdom of the founding fathers, I think their wisdom was truly amazing. They pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to escape the tyranny of a king. They understood the nature of the human heart struggles between good and evil.

So the founders created a system of checks and balances and accountability. If corruption invaded the political system, a means was available to address it. The founders felt impeachment was so important it was included in six different places in the Constitution. The founders set the standard for impeachment of the president and other civil officers as treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors.

The House of Representatives must use this standard in circumstances and facts of the president's conduct to determine if the occupant of the Oval Office is fit to continue holding the highest executive office of this great country.

Rep. Asa Hutchinson (R-Ark.):
In the next few days I will cast some of the most important votes of my career. Some believe these votes could result in a backlash and have serious political repercussions. They may be right. But I will leave the analysis to others. My preeminent concern is that the Constitution be followed and that all Americans, regardless of their position in society, receive equal and unbiased treatment in our courts of law. The fate of no president, no political party, and no member of Congress merits a slow unraveling of the fabric of our constitutional structure. As John Adams said, we are a nation of laws, not of men.

Our nation has survived the failings of its leaders before, but it cannot survive exceptions to the rule of law in our system of equal justice for all. There will always be differences between the powerful and the powerless. But imagine a country where a Congress agrees the strong are treated differently than the weak, where mercy is the only refuge for the powerless, where the power of our positions govern all of our decisions. Such a country cannot long endure. God help us to do what is right, not just for today, but for the future of this nation and for those generations that must succeed us.

Rep. Henry Hyde (R-Ill.):

I suggest impeachment is like beauty: apparently in the eye of the beholder. But I hold a different view. And it's not a vengeful one, it's not vindictive, and it's not craven. It's just a concern for the Constitution and a high respect for the rule of law. ... as a lawyer and a legislator for most of my very long life, I have a particular reverence for our legal system. It protects the innocent, it punishes the guilty, it defends the powerless, it guards freedom, it summons the noblest instincts of the human spirit.

The rule of law protects you and it protects me from the midnight fire on our roof or the 3 a.m. knock on our door. It challenges abuse of authority. It's a shame Darkness at Noon is forgotten, or The Gulag Archipelago, but there is such a thing lurking out in the world called abuse of authority, and the rule of law is what protects you from it. And so it's a matter of considerable concern to me when our legal system is assaulted by our nation's chief law enforcement officer, the only person obliged to take care that the laws are faithfully executed.

AND LAST, BUT NOT LEAST: 

Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Tex.):
I believe that this nation sits at a crossroads. One direction points to the higher road of the rule of law. Sometimes hard, sometimes unpleasant, this path relies on truth, justice and the rigorous application of the principle that no man is above the law.

Now, the other road is the path of least resistance. This is where we start making exceptions to our laws based on poll numbers and spin control. This is when we pitch the law completely overboard when the mood fits us, when we ignore the facts in order to cover up the truth.

Shall we follow the rule of law and do our constitutional duty no matter unpleasant, or shall we follow the path of least resistance, close our eyes to the potential lawbreaking, forgive and forget, move on and tear an unfixable hole in our legal system? No man is above the law, and no man is below the law. That's the principle that we all hold very dear in this country.

I agree that this is a huge issue.  We have the technology to be virtually independent energy wise, but too many crooked politicians have too much money invested in the oil companies and have no interest in seeing alternative energy sources take away any of their profit.  That, in my opinion, is a huge source of our problem.  Below I will post a portion of what Obama plans to do about the energy crisis (from his website - barackobama.com).  He has a much more detailed plan listed on his website.  I'm posting a link if anyone would like to read more.

"Barack Obama believes we have a moral, environmental, economic, and security imperative to address our dependence on foreign oil and tackle climate change in a serious, sustainable manner.

presidential candidate do you think MAY do something more about it.  I am sure a lot of you realize we have illegal immigrants (mostly in large number Mexican immigrants) who have swarmed into the country illegally. 

I have an Mexian illegal immigrant who lives near me.  She is nice enough.  She doesn't speak really good english.  I know she got pregnant and was actually able to go to our neighboring state and apply for Medicaid to pay for her prenatal care and the child after it was born.  And do you know she got Medicaid and I know for a fact she is an illegal immigrant because she told me herself.  I asked and she told me.  When it is possible for someone who is not even in our country legally to obtain government assistance, that is just insane.  What is wrong with our country? 

We don't have to keep it in our homes or our churches.  Freedom of religion covers that too!

Please share who they really are, since you seem to know.  I've been following this board for 4 years or so and I surely don't know who this poster is.  Whoever they are, though, they speak the truth about your postings, Observer.  You are not always the "lively" debater you claim to be when you utilize sarcasm, accusation and put-down so frequently.

I do notice that the posters from the Conservative board repeatedly accuse the posters on the Liberal board as all being the same person.  Dream on.

the same talking points.

x

I did it once and I was crucified for it.  Won't do it again.  Truthfully, and this is not meant to be mean, I don't think I would have much in common with most on this board at all. 

.

Disclaimer:  It will probably not appeal to the McCain supporters, so need for you make snarky remarks about it. 

I don't even know how I ended up at this site, but it has so many topics on it, instead of recommending a link just to one or two, I'll give the whole page.  Be sure to scroll down. 

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/ (although I don't consider myself a 'wonk' LOL)

Try the home page too:

http://thinkprogress.org/

One of my favorite political websites, that I've been going to every day (and causing me to spend far less time on this board) is Talking Points Memo:  http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

Would anyone else like to share their favorite websites that are lib or nonpartisan?  TIA

Bush made frequent use of "signing statements" in order to get what he wanted, and not all of them were publicized at the time.  He would sign the bill and then add a little "P.S." that basically nullified it if Bush so chose.

If this vehicle is available to Obama, as well, then we may not know it for a while.

Some would see this as political from the get-go.  They would read this and dismiss it saying, oh those stupid Republicans.  It has not penetrated some of their conscious or subconscious thinking that there really is more to this than politics.  The stakes are more than high.  Historically, Muslims spread Islam barbarically and without mercy and were ony stopped from taking Europe by the Crusades.  They are ready to spread again, only this time, it is the United States they have their eyes on.  I found this article that I believe illustrates not only what will happen, but has a good understanding of what is happening now.

Preventing a Premature Exit From Iraq
By Ed Feulner
CNSNews.com Commentary
October 19, 2006

BAGHDAD (Jan. 21, 2009) -- Iraq's bloody civil war worsened today, when 10,000 heavily armed troops from the Shiite state of Shiastan pushed north from Najaf and Rumaythah. The attack threatened to trap three battalions of U.S.-backed Sunnis in the region.

The latest round of fighting has triggered a new wave of refugees into Kuwait and Jordan, the United Nations reported today. Millions of Iraqis have fled the country since American troops pulled out in 2006, a controversial withdrawal that al Qaeda celebrates as a watershed victory.

Word of today's offensive pushed crude oil prices to $210 per barrel, a new record, certain to cause problems for the newly inaugurated American president ...

All right, enough with the doom and gloom. The preceding paragraphs are fiction, but they reflect what's likely to happen if the United States pulls out of Iraq before the country is stabilized and able to function on its own. Unfortunately, some of our politicians want to do exactly that.

We believe that a phased redeployment of U.S. forces from Iraq should begin before the end of 2006, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid wrote in a letter both signed in August. Even if our task there remains unfinished?

As President Bush put it on Oct. 11, when you pull out before the job is done, that's cut and run as far as I'm concerned. And that's cut and run as far as most Americans are concerned.

Heritage Foundation experts James Carafano and James Phillips explained in a recent paper what's likely to happen if we withdraw quickly. Such a shortsighted U.S. policy would be a severe blow to the Iraqi security situation, Iraqi oil exports, U.S. allies in the region, the global war against terrorism and the future of all Iraqis, they write.

If we leave now, we'd leave the Iraqi army (with all its heavy weapons) up for grabs. That's likely to spark a civil war, as soldiers align themselves into religious and regional militias.

Under that scenario, we can expect Iran -- already a regional power -- to support the Shiite Muslims in the south, a move that would give Tehran control of most of Iraq's oil. Not that this would necessarily keep the oil flowing; as the civil war escalated, guerrillas would cut pipelines and blow up oil wells.

Right now, Iraq produces 2.5 million barrels of oil per day, and the country's government aims to increase that to 2.7 MBD by year's end. If production is disrupted, though, worldwide prices would skyrocket.

If we cut and run, Iraqi civilians would be the biggest losers. Millions would flee the starvation, disease and destruction that civil war brings. Meanwhile, al Qaeda would tout its role in forcing the U.S. out, providing a huge recruiting boom for the terrorist group.

This doesn't mean we should stay indefinitely. As they say, there are only two exit strategies from any war: A country can win and go home, or it can lose and go home. Either way, all our troops eventually will exit Iraq. What really matters is what they leave behind.

We've made progress in Iraq, and we'll continue to do so. Many of al Qaeda's senior leaders have been killed or captured and the group's popularity among the Iraqis is low. We need to keep training Iraqi forces and preparing them to stand on their own.

In the long run, only Iraqis can assure the success of Iraq. But if, in the short run, we cut and run, we guarantee failure -- for them and for us. We can avoid the bleak future outlined above. But we must steel our resolve to get the job done right.

(Ed Feulner is the president of The Heritage Foundation, a Washington-based public policy research institute.