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I don't recall saying I was right or left for that matter. What happened to your ability to sm

Posted By: sm on 2006-01-17
In Reply to: For goodness' sake, where did critical thinking go? - MTRE

consider that and not label?

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Murtha's predictions on the Republican exit strategy. - Democrat
- Why does President need help with a way out? - MTRE
- I wonder which war is globally safer: - PK
  - Liberals: Please read. - PK
    - Bush - suzyd
    - The fact that an article was written does not make it fact. I hope you know that. nm - sm
      - For goodness' sake, where did critical thinking go? - MTRE
        I don't recall saying I was right or left for that matter. What happened to your ability to sm - sm
        So you're actually a Democrat! - MTRE
      - So true. But it makes it a theory. - PK
    - Swiftboating continues; you're in good company. - sm - Starcat
    - Looks like you've been swiftboated, PK - sm - Starcat
      - LOL. Coulter. Now there's a real gem. - PK
        You know what I don't understand? - sm - Starcat
        I didn't realize they were even doing that - PK

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I don't recall saying I was on the left. Newsflash:

None to few but that doesn't matter to the left. sm
President Bush has always been held to a *higher standard*. Excuse me while I barf.

I'd like to see demonstrated ability to change
I really don't think much will change, no matter who the POTUS, when I see the way people treat each other with such utter lack of disrespect as human beings. And I mean this all over, not just in the political arena or here on this board. First major snag and even the ever-so-highly regarded Barack will be to blame and butt of all jokes just like every other president.

But we are losing our ability to choose every day.
Can't have a fast food place in low income neighborhoods in California anymore because someone has decided because people have low incomes, they obviously can't make their own choices.

Can't have trans fat because someone has decided we can't decide for ourselves what those are.

Businessowners can no longer decide to allow smoking in their bars where majority of patrons are smokers in many places because someone else has decided it's for the greater good if they don't.

I could go on. It isn't Democrat or Republican, it's WE THE PEOPLE allowing these things to happen, allowing ourselves to be duped by studies, doctors, and scientists who think they know what is best for everyone and that we aren't capable of making choices on our own. If we don't stop it in its tracks, it won't matter which party or who is in office. It will continue to spin out of control until we no longer have the choices of which you speak! But in order to make any difference, we have to be united and stop turning on each other.

In that case, I am truly impressed by her ability to get her nose up her own buttocks!
Maybe being a contortionist is her true calling in life!

If you lose your ability to work, you're gonna need it

And you don't even have the ability to recognize one of your posts coming back to smack you in the

I don't see how it can affect her ability to read questions and sit and listen to answers - nm
x

I like #5. I have heard another survivor trait is the ability to quickly adapt. nm
xxx

Really? I don't recall seeing that in my
xx

As I recall
those pubs in Congress along with their bush leader didn't do a thing for the good of the country and they were replaced by the Dems but with Daddy Bush as the "decider" it was unlikely he was going to let them get away with anything for the good.........not that they tried either.

I don't recall ever

defending Bush no matter what. There are a lot of things that I don't agree with Bush on as well. I think both parties need a good cleaning out. I'm not a Cheney fan either but I do get what he is saying. If they want to let out part of those memos....let them all out so we know what happened and what we got in return that may or may not have benefited. How are we to know for sure if only half of this is opened up and looked at. You have pubs lying and dems lying alike. If the dems want the pubs to go down.....then the dems involved should go down with the ship as well. I'm tired of the double standards and the finger pointing.

However, I still say this is all best left alone until after our troops are home. It does no good for anyone to have us fighting amongst ourselves at home and releasing information that could endanger our troops even more than they are.

I also don't really think that our tactics as far as treatment of prisoners should be out there for all to see because, like I said before, what is the point of anything if terrorists know they are going to be treated well with no threat to their life. They would have no reason to spill the beans. They would just have to be patient until they got out.

I'm not here defending the GOP and Bush and Cheney. However, I personally see nothing wrong with waterboarding in an attempt to save lives.

Obviously this is something that you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on. As per my research and understanding, terrorists are not covered under the Geneva Convention and therefore Bush didn't order anything unlawful in that instance. But seriously....this is something that should be investigated after our troops are home and safe. I don't think Bush is worth putting our troops at higher risk.

I don't recall saying in my post that you were gt. SM
What an odd thing to say. Anyway, I don't like posting over here. I just happened to see that you were ungracious when I apologized and talking about slander when you did the exact same thing to me so, in other words, nothing has changed here. And you are not funny.

I do not recall saying that I did not agree with...
abortion because God would never approve of it nor want it. I may have said God would never approve of it or want it, because I believe that to be true. However, I do not remember saying that was the only reason I was opposed to it. What about people who are not religious who think abortion is morally wrong? Again...you do not have to be religious to be opposed to abortion. There are a lot of people (nonreligious) who are against the death penalty for the same reason. Frankly, what difference does it make anyway? My point all along was that opposition is on moral grounds, and I certainly was a moral person BEFORE I came to know God. Are you saying you are not a moral person because you are not religious? Did I miss something??

Ah. Well, then perhaps we should sterilize everyone right now to make sure the antichrist is never born. That is how much sense that argument makes.

For the last time, piglet. I perceive abortion to be wrong because it kills what to me is a person. I don't need God or anyone else to tell me that life begins at conception. If it didn't, the child would not grow and mature. Whatever the stage the life is in, it is necessary to kill it so that it does not continue to grow. If you want to equate that with plants and animals, that is certainly your prerogative.

Again, I don't know why it chaps you so much for someone to have a different opinion.

The moral police? You mean like saying theft is wrong? Like saying war is wrong? Like saying assault is wrong? Like saying rape is wrong? That kind of moral police?

Again...there are laws on the books right now that you can be charged with two murders if you kill a pregnant woman. Do you oppose that too? Scott Peterson...charged with Laci and Connor's death. Connor was certainly not viable outside his mother's womb. You are saying it was okay if Laci wanted to kill him, but murder because Scott killed Laci and therefore terminated Connor's life at the same time?

Try telling a pregnant woman who WANTS her child the instant she finds out she is pregnant, that that child will not become a child and is only alive like a plant or an animal until it takes a breath. Tell her that when she mourns if she loses it, oh it wasn't a child anyway, it was an embyronic sac so get over it. Two women, 6 weeks along, one wants it, one doesn't. One knows it is alive and can't wait for it to be born. The other one wants to abort it. What makes the wanted child anymore alive than the unwanted child? Nothing, because they are BOTH alive. You can justify it in the name of choice if you want to. Just call it what it is. You want a woman to have the right to kill the living child within her, because her choice trumps the child's right to live. I just don't happen to agree.

I did notice this also and never did before. Can anyone recall? nm
.

And you know, Zville, as I recall, at one
point in his life, Mr. Obama was addicted to some form of illegal drug, and I don't believe it was a prescription drug. I don't recall if he ever went through any type of rehab or not like Rush did.

I don't recall MTPockets
saying they were leaving the board. Just saying goodbye to others who were leaving. I think several of us on this board could grow up a bit. This is getting ridiculous. Enough already and let's discuss important things instead of this elementary drama.

I don't recall ever sayin that
I agreed with the Bush administration 100% either. I'm not a pub. I'm an independent who personally thinks that our government has a whole is doing a p!ss poor job. Bush and Cheney weren't perfect by any means but they are out of the White House now. They cannot be blamed for the bad decisions Obama makes during his administration.

Do you recall the pre-Patriot Act world?
when diverse viewpoints were at our fingertips and not dictated by Mega-Media outlets riding around in the pockets of political status quo? Not only has this dummed down American audiences nationwide, but it has been a direct assault on the democratic process.

Patriot Act provisions:
1. Law enforcement agencies authorized (and sometimes forced) to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial and other records without a warrant. This has been exercised against their own citizens, the most recent instance being voyeuristic easedropping on intimate conversations between American troops serving in Iraw and their spouses...right to privacy in 1st, 4th and 5th admendments notwithstanding.
2. Eased restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States. This has allowed them to expand their definition of terrorisim to include individuals and groups exercising their 1st amendment right to redress the government via political dissent.
3. Expanded the Secretary of the Treasury's authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities. An example of this would be freezing funds of a first generation natural born citizens sending money to their family members who still live overseas.
4. Enhances the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting SUSPECTED (not proven) of terrorism-related acts. This has not worked out well for many perfectly innocent citizens and permanent residents whose only crime is to have a Moslem name.
5. The act also expands the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA Patriot Act�s expanded law enforcement powers can be applied.

Abuse of the Patriot Act has been rife and is the stuff of legend, as is the controversy that surrounds it. The erosion of civil right stemming from this one piece of legislation is breath-taking, but the mindset that created it....even more so. I will be voting for a candidate that shows at least some sort of awareness of civil rights. Those are the freedoms I worry about.

Really? I don't recall seeing his pinky finger.
He's only showed us his middle one.

I don't recall Obama making

any promises to the gay and lesbian community. He himself is against same sex marriage.

As for this healthcare BS.....when it comes to pass and it isn't as great as he professed it to be and we are getting taxed out of the ying yang to pay for it....I'm sure many will be ready to get rid of Obama and any fellow cronies on the dem party. So don't count your chickens before they hatch.

As for the promises he has broken. Gitmo is still open. We are still in Iraq and now in Afgan. He promises he wouldn't raise taxes on 95% of Americans which is a downright lie especially if he is going to pay for this healthcare plan of his. He said lobbyists wouldn't have a place in his administration and yet he appointed some. Obama is nothing but a liar. The reason a lot of people still love Obama is because the mainstream media continues to portray Obama as doing no wrong. If some of these people would actually pay attention to what is going on and actually do a little research as well as lay off the kool-aid.....I'm sure more people would not be satisfied with Barry.

P.S. I don't recall anyone posting a near death threat to the

remote to that.

Why is it you are the only ones who are "free" to display your anger on your board?

If you take a look at the posts on this board, the only time they get nasty is when a troll from your board comes here and begins spewing your hatred and rage.

Why are you so angry? Your guy won.

Whenever a liberal raises an issue concerning a Bush administration policy or decision, I seldom see an intelligent thoughtful response come from most of you. Instead you attack the poster on a personal level when that poster never personally attacked YOU. They complained about Bush. Are you BUSH??

Time and time again, most of you come back with "all liberals" insults and rarely, if ever, address the question or issue that was raised.

If you can begin to understand that it isn't YOU PERSONALLY that we are referring to, maybe then we can begin to have an intelligent conversation on this board.

If you are a conservative, I respect your right to your opinions, and I'd like to learn more about them. I can't do that if all you do is throw insults, which you are "free" to do on your board, but if we are angered or insulted by them, we are not likewise "free" to express that.

I had hoped that these new boards would eliminate the personal favorites that seemed to exist on the other board. Looks like that isn't the case.

And as far as approaching the administrator about fairness, if I can't do that, then I truly don't belong in a forum like this one. I belong in one that doesn't play favorites, where intelligent discourse can occur, where personal insults and attacks are prohibited for everyone, not just for some.

I just wonder how many people you've chased away from here, besides me.

seem to recall someone else protecing herself again a WITCH...haha
hmmm, real sound judgment there. So if Palin wins and decides to seek advice from shamans or witchdoctors, you are okay with that?

I recall Bush on a train with the press
not long after the 2004 election stating that he had 3 1/2 years to go...with a heavy sigh, thoroughly disgusted me. He should have recused himself then, and we would have been much better off.

And I think I recall reading about sperm doners
test tube babies, IVF, etc. The complete ig that people have that you have to have 1 man and 1 woman to have a baby. You know what? I can't have kids. We tried for over 30 years. Nothing worked, adoption never worked either. That's why they have other means (like sperm doners, etc.)

You know you can still have your "traditional marriage" between a man and a woman and call it traditional marriage, and for the gay and lesbians let them have a marriage to the person they love and want to spend the rest of their lives with just like you do.

Leave the tradition of marriage alone? Gee why not segregate whites and blacks in schools, and why don't you tell us whether different races can marry? How much further are you going to take it? If two people love each other they should be allowed to marry. They are human beings and have feeling just like you or I do. If I ever find myself without my husband in the future I have some woman friends that I share deep affection with and if we want to marry its nobody else's business and what we do in our own home does not affect you. Does that change the way you feel for your spouse? Has all your vows and trust for each other gone down the drain now because two people of the same sex love each other and want to share the same human rights that everyone else takes for granted. Talk about discrimination and making someone feel totally inferior and less of a human being, oh and what's next, only catholics can get married but mormons and lutheran or Jewish people can't. Man, now I know why I am not a Christian. So let there be two branches of marriage. Traditional branch where you say "I Marge take Fred to be my lawful partner, blah, blah, blah" and then you have another branch of marriage where you can say "I Judy take Barbara to be my lawful partner. I promise to take care of her when she is sick and dying. I will love her til death do we part". And this allows her to be able to make the decisions and have the same rights that all other human beings can. If you believe in a loving God, then he loves all people no matter what. He doesn't discriminate. He doesn't need any spokesperson interjecting their opinion as to what they "think" "he" wants.

Also, our lives on this planet are too short. Why wouldn't you want other people to be happy and share in the same happiness you share with a partner. Their getting married doesn't affect you.

If I recall, Mahatma Ghandi resided in the country...
where the fighting was going on that he protested against. He did not move to, say, the US and bus to DC and protest and then bus back to home sweet home safe and sound. I challenge you and the other *peace* protestors to PLEASE stop preaching to the choir. It is idiotic to say that anyone (other than terrorists who seem to) WANT war. I certainly do not want war. I certainly do not want to have citizens killed 3000 in one day either or to allow my way of life (and yours) endangered by peaceniks. Umm....try dropping daisy in the barrel of a terrorist gun. See how far that gets you. You do not have to convince me peace is better when nations can live in harmony. Problem with that, Lurker, is that all the nations involved need to be of one mind. Despite what is being portrayed by many of the peaceniks posting, we did not bring 9-11 on ourselves. It was a cowardly, craven attack. You need to convince the people who are the real threat to that peace..the terrorists. Tehran. Kim Jong Il...picky any of them to start. Go to their capitals and protest and carry your signs. Talk to THEM about giving peace a chance. If you are serious about it, do something more than carry a sign and sing silly songs.

As to supporting the troops but not the mission...the person who wrote that opinion piece has no clue. There are a good many people who do join the military for purely patriotic reasons and because they love their country. A good many joined after 9-11 for that very reason. I will try one more time to make the point. When you do not support the mission, when you protest and hold signs that 9-11 was an inside job, that the President of The United States lied them into the fight, that they are fighting and dying for a lie, fighting and dying for nothing, ...if you think that does not affect morale and is anything but hurtful to the real live human beings with feelings putting their lives on the line for this country that they swore to defend against enemies....helllooooo. That is NOT in any way, shape, or form supporting. And you don't seem to give a rat's patootie what effect it has on them. In fact, it seems like you could not care less. Because, in case you and your peacenik friends don't realize it, they are there and they are staying there for the forseeable future. Why is it sooo hard for you to just support them while they are there? For people who are supposed to really care about others....that shows an amazing lack of empathy. Common decency should keep you from doing that while they are still over there.

Saw the spot in the NY Times about the protestor spitting on the disabled veteran. Way to go, support the troops!
Tell me again how noble the protest is. Get off the bus and on a plane to terrorist central. Talk to them. They may not doubt your sincerity as much as I do.

I recall junior high being full of tattle-tales.
Speak for yourself.

you mean left wing....it's a left wing ding website on the messiah....the right wouldn't bothe

What happened?
Oh geez..what happened? Where are all the attack posts?? They are gone!! Or maybe Im just hallucinating this morning, LOL. OMG!! Now we can have soulful, fruitful, progressive and caring debates and ideas and maybe even possibly make a difference, without being attacked on everything we post. Halleluiah!!

What I think happened
I believe the other short, nasty post was deleted and in doing so it automatically deleted the other posts below it, which unfortunately included yours.

Yes, let's. What happened to all that
You used the "little people" reference to illustrate how elitist my concerns are. Those were not Obama's words, they were yours. You are not as good at spin as you think you are. Your choice to skip over the points about what KIND of executive experiences is another casual dismissal of issues far to vital to ignore, as you evidently would have us do. Those concerns will not be repeated here since you are trying to side-step them, as republicans inevitably do when faced with intellectual challenge, except to say that CEOs are executives, but keep themselves far out of touch with the "little people" beneath them. Sarah what's-her-name has also demonstrated a tendency to be a bit out of touch when it comes to using her office to elevate herself from ethics maid to VP.

Be impressed by that December 4, 2006 to now executive title. You obviously cannot cite any substance behind the title and neither can she. Most of us will not be voting for a title or a label, despite your party's best efforts.

Side-stepped everything about the token selection and Stepford Wife delegation, I see. So much for celebrating women's progress in the political arena.

First chair? Hopefully not (God help us if she ever is). Fact: That possibility is considerably more real under McCain (especially over an 8-year term) because of his age. Again, you have side-stepped the difference between the experience of Biden and the absence of same in what's-her-name. So much for being ready to lead the country. No problem. Says all it need to. 80% approval rating unheard of? You got that right. Nobody beyond Alaska has heard about it and it does not mean anything in view of the issue I raised that you are ignoring.

If you want to continue to make an utter fool of yourself by insisting her experience matches Obama's, go for it. I won't need to answer that lunacy again anytime soon. I'll let the media take care of that one for me and besides, rational minds will prevail over this lame claim.

What ever happened to
all those scathing protests over "redistribution of wealth?" How do all these bail-outs factor into that line of thinking?

I don't know how this happened!!! =)
ms - here's my political profile from the test you posted. Yes, I was very surprised! The liberal part must be hold-overs from my college days! =)

Overall: 75% Conservative, 25% Liberal

Social Issues: 50% Conservative, 50% Liberal

Personal Responsibility: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal

Fiscal Issues: 75% Conservative, 25% Liberal

Ethics: 50% Conservative, 50% Liberal

Defense and Crime: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal

and what happened?
did someone put a stop to it???

What happened to sam?

I'm just curious. I can barely stomach the politics board, so I almost never read the political posts due to the O-Love-A-Thon and the pure vitreol, which does nobody any good.

I noticed that sam took off. I don't blame him/her, either. I simply wondered.

As for Ann Coulter, her brilliance and success literally drives the libs nuts. I have her books, too, just short of her latest one, "Guilty."

I'm not here to start a bunch of %(#$*, but I just wondered where sam went. My guess is that he/she got sick of the crap and left. I couldn't figure why he/she continued the fightl I know I won't go there.

I know what happened...LOL..(sm)

You responded to a post that said "what makes you think we don't" when you probably should have, or meant to respond to the comment above that. It went south after that. Been there and done that. I hate it when that happens....LOL.

What happened to us.

You always hear about people in the old days who worked from run rise to run set to make enough money, etc. to support themselves and their kids. They wouldn't take charity or handouts. They took pride in working and earning what they got whether it was enough or not. Now there are just too many people with their hands out asking for a free ride.

As far as I am concerned.....if you are receiving welfare and you refuse to work even if it isn't a great job......you lose your welfare. I have no problem contributing to someone who is at least trying to work. However, I do have a problem with giving money to lazy bums who would rather mooch off other people than to do a days honest work.

This is what happened
Someone posted that the Capt had been freed. Someone replied to that "Thank you President Obama. Job well done". We're all thinking what????? I didn't know that the O was part of the Navy Seal team that went in and rescued the Captain. Why would you be thanking the O but not the Navy Seals, not saying they are hero's that laid down their lives to rescue the Captain. No they attribute it all to the O. And yet on the other side of the coin they wouldn't give GW the same "congrats" when he gave the orders to have the girl from West Virginia rescued, or when he have the orders to have the hostages in Iran rescued, or any of the other orders he gave the okay on for the Navy Seals to rescue the people. But even then, as I don't congratulate the O because he wasn't part of the Navy Seals that risked their life to save the Captain, I would also not congratulate Bush on his orders to rescue other hostages.

The congrats goes to the Navy Seals. The ones who lay their lives down to rescue people they don't even know. When you give your life and are prepared to die to save another human being, they are the real hero's. But the poster that congratulated the O for "a job well done", didn't even mention anything about the ones who actually did the saving.

I don't get you guys...what is it you want. We all know you think he is the messiah, the anointed one, the one who can do no wrong. You will always be the first to praise "oh looky the stock market went up 8.5 points - way to go O, you're just the best president ever", but when the stock market drops something like 150 points you stay silent, and then be the ones to point out that the stock market goes up and down and it's not his fault. I sit and think...uh hellloooooo...you just congratuated him for the stock market going up but it's not his fault it goes down?????? (which by the way I don't believe whether it goes up or down he has anything to do with, but evidently you people do - that is of course only when it goes up).

All you want to see on this board is praises for him and rejoicing and singing hallelujah's to his name. You will never ever say anything when something bad is happening. Just praises.

Yes, I know he will make mistakes, and I know he will do some good. But not admitting when something bad is going on (like tripling our deficit within 90 days - and no, not a fault of Bush's, the O did this all by himself with his pen and paper, and with the help of a crat congress. You won't admit he is breaking his campaign promises. You won't say anything when we hear he is telling other countries that they can have our jobs because we don't want them anyways. You won't say anything when he bows to another countries leader (the American president is suppose to bow to nobody - but on top of that if he is suppose to bow to anyone, certainly not the country like that - I mean for pete's sake, he didn't even bow to the Queen of England). You may say you don't think he's perfect, but you certainly don't speak up when something he has done is wrong.

The "I know he will make mistakes - what man has never made mistakes?", etc, etc. sounds like your trying to get people to feel sorry for him and maybe you think it aids in your cause of the "oh poor O, everyone is picking on him". Well you know what, when people stand up and say "I'm mad as he!! and I'm not going to take it anymore". When you finally will speak up and say "hey, wait a minute, I voted for him but this is not what he said he was going to do" (which is what has happened to me. Yeah, you bet I get pretty ticked off when I have been lied to and I voted for him believing one thing and then realized he suckered us a good one. That's what's the really upsetting thing. Fooled me once shame on you, fool me twice - well there just won't be a twice.

"Why can't ya'll just give him a chance"??????? He has had his chance and he is blowing it.

It disappeared? I wonder how that happened.
nm

More importantly, what ever happened to the USA?

A Chinese bank is opening up in the USA. Bush at one time had wanted to sell "security" of our ports to an Arab country. We have two citizen heroes rotting away in jail because they did their job of protecting our border with Mexico and were forced to kill a criminal in the process of doing that job.

If you open this link, you will see the staggering number of "American" companies that are no longer owned by Americans. http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/07/10/american-icons-owned-abroad-falling-dollar-cheaper-u-s-assets/

As far as the redistribution of wealth, below I have copied and pasted what I feel is, by far, the most interesting article I've read on that topic. In my opinion, a "trickle up" policy needs to be implemented as soon as possible because the "trickle down" theory has not worked.

Closing Time

Jim Kirwan
12-10-8

Since Reagan we've been trying to make "Trickle-Down economics" work: For those to whom promises were made, Trickle- Down has been, not just a failure but it has been the major vehicle responsible for the most massive redistribution of wealth, from the population that has worked toward something, to those that wanted everything. Never has there been such a near total transfer of wealth in the history of the planet. This criminal-conspiracy has done what it was created to do and it must be terminated with extreme prejudice, immediately, if we are to survive.

When 'Trickle-Down' was the political-priority of the day, the high-point in prosperity was to become a 'Millionaire.' Forbes magazine tracked those lucky few very carefully. Today Forbes 500 no longer bothers with 'millionaires' because there are just far too many of them-they have become inconsequential. Thanks to "Trickle-Down economics today the heavy-hitters financially are 'Billionaires' and above: which is all you need to know about how well this hostile-takeover of the American economy has worked.

The problem that this transfer of wealth has created has resulted in the Federalization-of-Privatization: As a result we are all facing another huge round of trickle-down economics, but this time it's being cloaked in a series of stealth-protected measures. These new tactics are commonly called BAILOUT or RESCUE packages, and nothing about their origins or their purposes has been made clear to those of us that will be forced to pay tens of trillions for our own destruction.

What's happening is this: First they used compromised laws to squash diversity and opinion within the entire field of communications, under Clinton and Powell's kid that ran the FCC. Together, competition was eliminated and monstrous empires were created that absorbed their competition outright. Once this happened, the entire edifice for total information management was in-place, using household names to lie to the public every minute of every day, whether on television or in print-with very few exceptions. With that completed effort it was easy to move directly onto the openly fascist path to WAR on a variety of fronts, supported and applauded by the very organs that were supposed to question whatever government does, on behalf of the people, as part of their constitutionally protected-jobs as so-called journalists. With the constitution gone, and the only allegiance worthy of that name having become the private for-profit motives that greed and arrogance breeds; in the sewers of those ruined lives where these so-called leaders "live," the current outcome is all that we should have ever expected from these new-age barbarians. (1)

We're still in the Twilight Zone; where Obama is just another man waiting to start a job, except that he seemingly can't wait to begin so he formulates their plans and then rushes to the nearest podium to expound upon the glories of what these programs (or pogroms) are pointedly designed to do; for them and 'to' us. And the sheep wait patiently to board the trains that will take them to the slaughterhouse.

The larger picture has or course remained hidden from the general public. What continues to go unnoticed is the number of profligate cities and towns, not to mention states that will have to be bailed out by the feds. Once this begins to happen, 'the rights' of states will disappear completely along with any independence from the federal-government. Remember the formula upon which bailouts are based: The crucial money provided is conditioned upon a federal "ownership stake" in everything that needs the money, and when this is applied to the states then all they have left to trade with is their broken-economies and their people who shall both become the property of the federal government that is today a private-corporation that serves only the privately-owned central banks and by extension the multi-national corporations. This is about to happen now to several states, including California; the sixth largest economy in the world. (2)

'BTW the "corporation" mentioned above has been bankrupt since 1933, and the result of that bankruptcy is that the USA went into receivership to the privately-owned Federal Reserve. The Dictator was correct when he said: "The constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper," he was actually telling the truth. It was probably the only truthful statement he ever made in nearly eight years.
The owners have simply allowed us to believe we have a constitution. Every law, code and statute world wide is based on the Uniform Commercial Code and has been in place since 1950. Of course no one in a position of power ever bothered to mention this to us did they? One must understand the UCC to understand how and why so many have gotten away with so much: And now they are upping the ante, to take it all.'

This explains why every courtroom and every government building has flags hanging that really are not American flags even though they appear to be. Each of them has gold/yellow fringe around them. They give us smoke and mirrors that mask what they created, which allows them to continue to say 'we have a constitution and a democracy.' Of course America was created to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic. The rights of the few and the many, can only be protected under a Republic, while under a democracy, the majority rules-absolutely.

There are however a few places that are still holding out against the one-world-order and the New Barbarians. Among these are Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, possibly Iran and certainly Greece.
"Socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the conservative government could no longer defend the public from rioters.

The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.

'The government cannot handle this crisis and has lost the trust of the Greek people,' Papandreou said. 'The best thing it can do is resign and let the people find a solution ... we will protect the public.'" (3)

If America is to survive then we must stop this wholesale giveaway of everything that was once part of this society. The relationship between profits and earnings must be freed from the stranglehold that management has created in order to siphon off all the profits and wreck the companies they work for. In addition, the idea that government can function in any capacity as a major stakeholder in any form of private enterprise beggars the imagination far beyond any real possibility for saving anything; except the criminals and their enterprises that created this "crisis" in the first place. The 'economy' must be based on a bottom-up profit motive, based on the real wages of those that create the wealth for those at the top - and not upon the insanity that it is now! People must come first, and the corporations must be controlled at every level by the public!

There is no longer anything like responsibility anywhere in government or the private sector to anything except what can continue to be stolen, either by flawed and fraudulent bailouts, or through the strong-arm tactics that are currently acting "under- cover of law" and that are neither legal nor functional. Obama in this venue is neither a savior, nor a friend to the people that supposedly 'elected' him-he is just the instrument of the new global-government engine designed to finish the job and to close down this nation, once and for all! Americans need to watch what happens in Greece and follow their example, if there is to be an America to fight over in the future.

In the meanwhile, here is some of what's happened here already.

"With the focus on privatization, public-private partnerships, (dismantling local control); anyone with any common sense about them can see that; incrementally the power of the people is being given over to corporate control through various venues. Once upon a time we were subjects, then citizens, and now consumers. Everything is for sale. TV 'programming' is set up to entice "consumers" through the 3000 daily ads to buy, buy, buy! Utilities-waste- nursing homes, and even the people's water (once in local control) is open to the highest bidder or those with the most influence. In "public private partnerships or privatization" (despite the lofty high pitch sales rhetoric) means only one thing, a plundering of the people's money. Profits take precedence over any and all health or environmental concerns. It's pigs at the trough time, locally- state wise and nationally. This is not just happening in one or two isolated places but across the nation. Because we are narrowly focused (many times only one newspaper) parochially; we have little to no idea of the larger picture and what is being set in place.

As I read of various happenings across the nation; I am struck with the usage of terms and language being introduced into the public arena; with no explanation as to their meaning (if any). I asked a state politician a few years back what this terminology we're hearing lately of, "regional or regionalization" meant? He brushed the whole thing aside as inconsequential and told me that is was of no importance. Obviously, for me, that was an unsatisfactory answer. Most especially, since on the local level, I could see that it meant a great deal. It appeared to me, that ever so insidiously, local control was gradually being usurped by "regional" control of unelected officials. Consultants (strangers) were replacing local people in places of city government (at lucrative salaries). The sense of community (calling city hall etc.) was being replaced by various business entities, having little to no attachment to the heartbeat of the people. How could they, being strangers, with no sense of native pride or concern? Words like "regional, stake holder, empowerment zones, enterprise committees, visioning councils, smart growth, sustainable development etc;" had replaced understandable language! I didn't imagine that the usage of these terms across the nation (if you look) meant "nothing"." (4)

It's 'Closing Time' America, because unless you begin to do more than just watch, this place won't even be a footnote to the ruin that is planned for these people and this place that once held so much promise for everyone.

kirwanstudios@sbcglobal.net

More importantly, what ever happened to the USA?

Closing Time

Jim Kirwan
12-10-8

Since Reagan we've been trying to make "Trickle-Down economics" work: For those to whom promises were made, Trickle- Down has been, not just a failure but it has been the major vehicle responsible for the most massive redistribution of wealth, from the population that has worked toward something, to those that wanted everything. Never has there been such a near total transfer of wealth in the history of the planet. This criminal-conspiracy has done what it was created to do and it must be terminated with extreme prejudice, immediately, if we are to survive.

When 'Trickle-Down' was the political-priority of the day, the high-point in prosperity was to become a 'Millionaire.' Forbes magazine tracked those lucky few very carefully. Today Forbes 500 no longer bothers with 'millionaires' because there are just far too many of them-they have become inconsequential. Thanks to "Trickle-Down economics today the heavy-hitters financially are 'Billionaires' and above: which is all you need to know about how well this hostile-takeover of the American economy has worked.

The problem that this transfer of wealth has created has resulted in the Federalization-of-Privatization: As a result we are all facing another huge round of trickle-down economics, but this time it's being cloaked in a series of stealth-protected measures. These new tactics are commonly called BAILOUT or RESCUE packages, and nothing about their origins or their purposes has been made clear to those of us that will be forced to pay tens of trillions for our own destruction.

What's happening is this: First they used compromised laws to squash diversity and opinion within the entire field of communications, under Clinton and Powell's kid that ran the FCC. Together, competition was eliminated and monstrous empires were created that absorbed their competition outright. Once this happened, the entire edifice for total information management was in-place, using household names to lie to the public every minute of every day, whether on television or in print-with very few exceptions. With that completed effort it was easy to move directly onto the openly fascist path to WAR on a variety of fronts, supported and applauded by the very organs that were supposed to question whatever government does, on behalf of the people, as part of their constitutionally protected-jobs as so-called journalists. With the constitution gone, and the only allegiance worthy of that name having become the private for-profit motives that greed and arrogance breeds; in the sewers of those ruined lives where these so-called leaders "live," the current outcome is all that we should have ever expected from these new-age barbarians. (1)

We're still in the Twilight Zone; where Obama is just another man waiting to start a job, except that he seemingly can't wait to begin so he formulates their plans and then rushes to the nearest podium to expound upon the glories of what these programs (or pogroms) are pointedly designed to do; for them and 'to' us. And the sheep wait patiently to board the trains that will take them to the slaughterhouse.

The larger picture has or course remained hidden from the general public. What continues to go unnoticed is the number of profligate cities and towns, not to mention states that will have to be bailed out by the feds. Once this begins to happen, 'the rights' of states will disappear completely along with any independence from the federal-government. Remember the formula upon which bailouts are based: The crucial money provided is conditioned upon a federal "ownership stake" in everything that needs the money, and when this is applied to the states then all they have left to trade with is their broken-economies and their people who shall both become the property of the federal government that is today a private-corporation that serves only the privately-owned central banks and by extension the multi-national corporations. This is about to happen now to several states, including California; the sixth largest economy in the world. (2)

'BTW the "corporation" mentioned above has been bankrupt since 1933, and the result of that bankruptcy is that the USA went into receivership to the privately-owned Federal Reserve. The Dictator was correct when he said: "The constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper," he was actually telling the truth. It was probably the only truthful statement he ever made in nearly eight years.
The owners have simply allowed us to believe we have a constitution. Every law, code and statute world wide is based on the Uniform Commercial Code and has been in place since 1950. Of course no one in a position of power ever bothered to mention this to us did they? One must understand the UCC to understand how and why so many have gotten away with so much: And now they are upping the ante, to take it all.'

This explains why every courtroom and every government building has flags hanging that really are not American flags even though they appear to be. Each of them has gold/yellow fringe around them. They give us smoke and mirrors that mask what they created, which allows them to continue to say 'we have a constitution and a democracy.' Of course America was created to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic. The rights of the few and the many, can only be protected under a Republic, while under a democracy, the majority rules-absolutely.

There are however a few places that are still holding out against the one-world-order and the New Barbarians. Among these are Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, possibly Iran and certainly Greece.
"Socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the conservative government could no longer defend the public from rioters.

The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.

'The government cannot handle this crisis and has lost the trust of the Greek people,' Papandreou said. 'The best thing it can do is resign and let the people find a solution ... we will protect the public.'" (3)

If America is to survive then we must stop this wholesale giveaway of everything that was once part of this society. The relationship between profits and earnings must be freed from the stranglehold that management has created in order to siphon off all the profits and wreck the companies they work for. In addition, the idea that government can function in any capacity as a major stakeholder in any form of private enterprise beggars the imagination far beyond any real possibility for saving anything; except the criminals and their enterprises that created this "crisis" in the first place. The 'economy' must be based on a bottom-up profit motive, based on the real wages of those that create the wealth for those at the top - and not upon the insanity that it is now! People must come first, and the corporations must be controlled at every level by the public!

There is no longer anything like responsibility anywhere in government or the private sector to anything except what can continue to be stolen, either by flawed and fraudulent bailouts, or through the strong-arm tactics that are currently acting "under- cover of law" and that are neither legal nor functional. Obama in this venue is neither a savior, nor a friend to the people that supposedly 'elected' him-he is just the instrument of the new global-government engine designed to finish the job and to close down this nation, once and for all! Americans need to watch what happens in Greece and follow their example, if there is to be an America to fight over in the future.

In the meanwhile, here is some of what's happened here already.

"With the focus on privatization, public-private partnerships, (dismantling local control); anyone with any common sense about them can see that; incrementally the power of the people is being given over to corporate control through various venues. Once upon a time we were subjects, then citizens, and now consumers. Everything is for sale. TV 'programming' is set up to entice "consumers" through the 3000 daily ads to buy, buy, buy! Utilities-waste- nursing homes, and even the people's water (once in local control) is open to the highest bidder or those with the most influence. In "public private partnerships or privatization" (despite the lofty high pitch sales rhetoric) means only one thing, a plundering of the people's money. Profits take precedence over any and all health or environmental concerns. It's pigs at the trough time, locally- state wise and nationally. This is not just happening in one or two isolated places but across the nation. Because we are narrowly focused (many times only one newspaper) parochially; we have little to no idea of the larger picture and what is being set in place.

As I read of various happenings across the nation; I am struck with the usage of terms and language being introduced into the public arena; with no explanation as to their meaning (if any). I asked a state politician a few years back what this terminology we're hearing lately of, "regional or regionalization" meant? He brushed the whole thing aside as inconsequential and told me that is was of no importance. Obviously, for me, that was an unsatisfactory answer. Most especially, since on the local level, I could see that it meant a great deal. It appeared to me, that ever so insidiously, local control was gradually being usurped by "regional" control of unelected officials. Consultants (strangers) were replacing local people in places of city government (at lucrative salaries). The sense of community (calling city hall etc.) was being replaced by various business entities, having little to no attachment to the heartbeat of the people. How could they, being strangers, with no sense of native pride or concern? Words like "regional, stake holder, empowerment zones, enterprise committees, visioning councils, smart growth, sustainable development etc;" had replaced understandable language! I didn't imagine that the usage of these terms across the nation (if you look) meant "nothing"." (4)

It's 'Closing Time' America, because unless you begin to do more than just watch, this place won't even be a footnote to the ruin that is planned for these people and this place that once held so much promise for everyone.

kirwanstudios@sbcglobal.net

Well, whatever happened, I am sure glad
nm

and we all know what happened to Rome don't we? sm
The Roman empire rotted from within. They kept absorbing and absorbing immigrants until they were no long able to sustain both them and their own citizens at the same time. The infrastructure finally gave out.

Sounds familiar to me.

I believe, if this happened...and don't know where you read it...
that these were paid McCain staffers, but some misguided McCain supporters. Obama has them too...many of them came out with the nastiness about Palin. They were Obama supporters, but not Obama staffers. Big difference. Obama can't control supporters, neither can McCain.

That happened to me the last recession we had...
and it took a good 6 years to right itself after the economy straightened out. And when it did...money went right into a CD. I don't mind a little in the market but I am not young enough to wait several years for rebounding again. Sigh.

Speak of Sam, what happened to her? nm
x

I wonder what happened to Kaydie?n/m
xx

That happened to me in the last 4 elections but

why, I don't know. It could be that the post office changed our street address 4 times yet lived here since ྈ. I wasn't on the list even though I've been registered since 1988 and voted every election. All of a sudden, I had to fill out a special form to vote. Last local primary, they wouldn't let me vote and I had to re-register. Stupid!

This year I called to make sure I was registered and they said yes. Got a new registration card with the old address on it, but no trouble this year. I was #235 at 7:30 a.m.

So, so true. This is what has happened in many

Phoenix, Arizona is one of them. Greed from Wall Street and greed from Main Street. After all, Phoenix was in a major housing bubble. I sold my home in 2005 by a California investor who not wanted my house and 6 others. My house was in a biding war. I pockted 280,000. Now that house in Phoenix is worth 160,000 less than what I sold it for. In 2005, homes were selling like crazy in Phoenix. Everyone wanted to jump on the band wagon. California investor thought, along with so many others, they could sell in a year or two and make a profit. Some profit, foreclosure. Many other homeowners took out equity to buy their boats and second homes. Now their second homes and their own home are in foreclosure. Not so many took out equity for cars because most lease their cars in Phoenix/Scottsdale. You rarely see a car on the road that is 5 years or older. Country has turned to greed, me-me-me, and gotta have it NOW.

No, this just happened in the last 2 months.
It was WALL STREET, FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC that did it, not Bush. He had nothing to do with this.

What happened to Bin Laden? sm
Watch this Clinton interview by Mike Wallace. Clinton lets him have it with both barrels and defends why he did not get Bin Laden.

http://crooksandliars.com/2006/09/24/fox-clinton-interview-part-1-osama-bin-laden/