I can't bring myself to conclude that Bush had a hand in the crime...sm
Posted By: Democrat on 2006-08-03
In Reply to: Just asking because there is a subculture - Hattie
I think his office new an attack was coming and did not inform the public.
There are also some very interesting findings such as the insurance policy taken out on the WTC with a terrorism provision only a few weeks before the attack. There were other actions that were taken by our government in the months preceeding the attacks that do not add up to it being a surprise attack.
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We don't bring it up to dismiss Bush, we bring it up...
to show that your criticism holds no water. It's not a political thing, it's a human thing. People have shortcomings. Now, if you want to have a statute of limitations on this thing, then I guess Bush is off the table as it's been about 20 years since his last drink, believe it or not (I know that's your next reply, that he still drinks, which you have no proof of so don't even try it).
We'll discuss that crime when Bush et al are done with their trial.
nm
Oh slam Obama all day, but don't bring up BUSH
He's the one that put us in the mess. Get it?
And my politics and faith are hand in hand. Plus I'm just answering her question.
x
The 2 issues you describe usually go hand-in-hand.
keep women out of power. The old 'barefoot-and-pregnant' story. As a feminist, I wouldn't vote for a candidate who was against EITHER issue. Being pro-choice has nothing to do with hating babies, etc. Pro-choice has to do with keeping a very personal, private choice just that: Personal & Private, between a woman and her doctor, and no-one else. If a woman hasn't any power over her OWN reproductive system, and whether or not the time is right (if ever) to bear a child, she certainly isn't going to be given much else to be in charge of, either.
The only reason this issue EVER became a hotbed political issue is that the religious fanatics in this country, who have been trying to control the reins of government, picked an issue that was certain to divide people. They took this choice out of the doctor's office and put it in the public eye so that the country could be divided, and in that way 'conquered'. Have to hand it to 'em, some of the campaign tactics, as repugnant as they are, have been pretty slick. Shows they've got some pretty fancy lawyers. The terrorist tactics (threatening, and even sometimes killing) docs who perform TABs; harrassing women entering family-planning clinics; and chasing some family planning clinics out of some towns.
There used to be a clinic a few blocks from my home, and every Friday this looney-tune and his whacked-out buddies would block park a truck with pictures of fetuses on it, and would block an entire sidewalk with their signs, fake babies (dolls), themselves, etc. I guess they think they're scaring people with their pictures & signs, but it only serves to infuriate them. In large part, the attempts to overthrow Roe vs Wade by the religious lunatics of the world is one of the main reasons I stopped voting Republican after Ronald Reagan, and voted Democratic instead.
And then of course there is the issue of our jobs. When that all started going down the toilet (or shall I say - to the Third World) I realized the 'trickle-down effect' I'd been led to believe when I was a Republican in the past was a lie. It doesn't trickle DOWN, the money only gushes UP -- to the ones who already have the most of it.
politics and religion go hand in hand...
Whether or not we like it, many of our laws are governed by religion. Without some sort of religion, who is to say that murder is "wrong," thus making it a religious argument, not a political one (by your methodology) and, yet, we still have a law against it.
I have seen some bullying get out of hand first hand
during the same grocery strikes that I referred to in the very small town where I grew up. Scabs were beat up and such. I am not saying it's the norm, but there can be tremendous pressure to vote one way or another--as can be seen right here.
Gun ban in UK - crime went up...
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I never said that he committed a crime...
nor did I ever say I found him personally offensive. I do not believe that he will make a good president because I disagree with his stance on most of the issues that I find important. I also believe that he made a lot of promises that he can never keep because he does not have that power. Personally, I am not all that into the birth certificate thing because I think he probably is a natural born citizen. I find it hard to believe that he would have made it this far were he not. Why is it okay for people to dislike Bush, but I MUST like Obama?
Please explain that crime
nm
Of course! O prevents crime
On the other hand, if there had been MORE crime, it would have been blamed on Bush, or possibly Palin.
potentially a crime?
13 firms receiving federal bailout owe back taxes
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER, Associated Press Writer Stephen Ohlemacher, Associated Press Writer – 59 mins ago
States Attorney General Eric Holder, left, shares a moment with Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., prior …
WASHINGTON – At least 13 firms receiving billions of dollars in bailout money owe a total of more than $220 million in unpaid federal taxes, a key lawmaker said Thursday.
Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., chairman of a House subcommittee overseeing the federal bailout, said two firms owe more than $100 million apiece.
"This is shameful. It is a disgrace," said Lewis. "We are going to get to the bottom of what is going on here."
The House Ways and Means subcommittee on oversight discovered the unpaid taxes in a review of tax records from 23 of the firms receiving the most money, Lewis said as he opened a hearing on the issue.
The committee said it could not legally release the names of the companies owing taxes. It said one recipient had almost $113 million in unpaid federal income taxes from 2005 and 2006. A second recipient owed almost $102 million dating to before 2004. Another was behind $1.1 million in federal income taxes and $223,000 in federal employment taxes.
"If we looked at all 470 recipients, how much would they owe?" Lewis asked.
Lewis said the panel plans to review tax records from other firms receiving federal money, but he was unsure if it would look at every firm.
"We're not done," he said.
Banks and other firms receiving federal money were required to sign contracts stating they had no unpaid taxes, Lewis said. But he said the Treasury Department did not ask them to turn over their tax records.
Neil Barofsky, special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, told the hearing that if an executive signed a contract knowing that information about unpaid taxes was false, "that would potentially be a crime." He said his office will look to see if crimes were committed.
No one from the Treasury Department appeared at Thursday's hearing. Lewis said he asked Treasury officials for a private briefing on their efforts to uncover unpaid taxes, as well as someone to testify at Thursday's hearing.
"They said no one was available," Lewis said in an interview.
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner is already under fire on Capitol Hill for not preventing $165 million in bonuses from being paid to employees at troubled insurance giant AIG.
People will ask, said Rep. Artur Davis, D-Ala., why there are "large companies getting taxpayer dollars, making false representations, and we can't even name them, much less make them pay the money back, much less prosecute them."
Davis continued: "Will they get their day on a billboard, hopefully?"
"Absolutely," said Barofsky. If someone lied, he said, "They need to be prosecuted."
The revelation is sure to spark outrage on Capitol Hill, where the House is expected to vote Thursday on a bill that would impose steep taxes on employee bonuses at AIG and other firms that have received bailout money.
To date, the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, has paid out more than $300 billion to private companies, with billions more on the way.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time!
x
But it's never a hate crime....
....when a black person attacks a white person? Believe me, there are people of every race who hate one race or another for some stupid reason. Don't quote me on this but I think the Chinese are embarrassed and angered if mistaken for Koreans.
We are all God's people. It's a shame.
Obama will be a one termer, not because of an assassination, because in under six months he's managed to anger many folks including the Jews and gays. Broken promises and lies. People believed he would pay their mortgages and gas. Unbelievable. Obama voters are getting their wakeup call. Wow. Even I thought it would take longer than this.
Guess Who's Soft on Crime...sm
Guess Who's Soft on Crime
Our system of “justice” has descended so far into routine thuggishness that even the blogosphere seems to have let this horror pass unnoticed. Sure, it’s only Texas, but still …
A crooked cop named Tom Coleman was hired in 1998 to conduct a drug investigation in Tulia, Texas, which he did by inventing evidence against 39 innocent men and women, almost all black. Most of the victims were jailed on the sole basis of Coleman’s lies, for terms ranging up to 90 years. When this vicious scheme finally fell apart, the governor pardoned 33 of Coleman’s victims, who won a settlement of $6 million. The badge-carrying perp was tried and convicted for perjury, a crime carrying a maximum sentence of ten years in Texas. A judge called him “the most devious, nonresponsive law enforcement witness this court has witnessed in 25 years on the bench in Texas.” Which, in Texas, we may presume is going some.
So a jury of twelve good men and true — none of them black — found this vicious, corrupt rogue cop guilty of what one judge had called “blatant perjury.” And the jurors threw the book at him, recommending seven whole years on probation. This sounded about right to the trial judge, who is expected to slap Coleman’s wrist really, really hard at the sentencing Tuesday.
She's committing a federal crime
Nofify the Federal Marshalls and they'll bust her. I lived down the street from a girl doing that and she went to federal prison!
Rigging Elections is a Crime
The McCain/Palin GOP is already in the process of stealing the Ohio vote, as was done in 2004. Among those at the center of the GOP strategy is Bush Family computer operative Michael Connell, who programmed the key vote counting mechanisms that were used to give George W. Bush his second term.
ttp://www.truthout.org/article/ten-ways-gop-is-now-stealing-ohio-vote
You see crime being a result of economy, but I see
Oh well don't you know it's not a hate crime when it's against a woman
Only race, religion, etc. No, not a hate crime when it's against a woman... unbelievably, but that's the country we live in. And it's the same reason everything went down the way it did in the primaries, and now in this election.
Do you also blame victims of crime and
inciting the crimes perpetrated against them. Yours is truly an ignorant, ignorant statement.
OMG. Fine...go look at the crime statistics.
nm
Like someone else asked, BB, explain the crime
nm
Oh, c'mon... the low crime was not only related to - s/msg
the HUGE police/secret service presence that was obviously there, but mainly to the mood. It's the first good news that everyday people in the US have had in a long, long time. It was just one day out of many, where people enjoyed the moment, the hope, the inauguration itself, the promise of the new administration, and a feel-good moment. We all know the glow won't last forever, but why not bask in it and enjoy a great moment in history. Even if you voted for the other candidate, you still have to admit that it was a truly great day for African Americans and ALL Americans to see democracy work right for a change, instead of being fixed and rigged. It was truly a magical day that many in this country, Repub or Dem, will remember for a lifetime.
Why did the Kennedy's have ties to organized crime?
Why was the Texas Democratic party of Lyndon Johnson horribly corrupt?
Why was Lyndon Johnson's election to the senate in 1948 won by massive voter fraud?
Why did Lyndon Johnson insert language into the IRS code in 1954 that prohibited non-profits, including churches, from endorsing or opposing candidates for political office. In effect, this thoroughly corrupt man used the power of the IRS to silence his opposition. Unfortunately, it worked. Why? His disservice to religious freedom has yet to be undone. Why?
How did Kennedy defeat Nixon in Illinois?
Just rhetorical questions.
Yes, you skirted the issue. He DID commit a crime.
Yep, we agree to disgree. Him lying under oath was totally on HIM, and THAT is the real issue. He could have told the truth at any time and avoided the impeachment hearings and the whole thing. He could have taken the wind out of any investigation, if he had just told the truth. It would have gone away. If sex with a 21-year-old girl in the White House where he and his wife and daughter lived was no big deal, why did he just not own up to it? Because he is a coward and morally bankrupt would be my guess. For whatever reason, he chose not to. No one twisted his arm behind his back and made him perjure himself. He did that all by his lonesome. While I find what he did with Monica Lewinsky tasteless at a minimum, and stupid at a maximum, that is not the most objectionable thing I find about him. The fact that he committed a felony, something you or I would go to jail for and there are people in jail for today...sorry, you defend him if you like, and continue to give him a pass. That is the part of the value system, his and his party's, that baffles me.
Dual citizenship is not a crime. It's a privilege.
Repeat one GOOD reason?
Agreed. It's abuse of power AND a crime
nm
Did everyone see the post below about the UK's gun ban and crime rate rising? sm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm
Use of gun-related crime increased 40% during the gun ban and smuggling of guns was rampant, along with people turning every possible object into a gun. Not the answer obviously.
those boys were not charged with a racist crime -
they were charged with burglary, disorderly conduct, and theft.
According to what I read, they cannot be charged with a hate crime because Obama is a political figure and therefore it would be considered a "free speech" issue and not a hate crime. If he were an everyday citizen, then he could be charged with a hate crime.
Either way, for Palin and Obama, it was repulsive to me!
I must be misreading the Hate Crime Bill
Nothing I've read says that any of the things that are crimes now (such as pedophilia) will be considered any less of a crime...pedophilia is still an arrestable offense. My interpretation of what I've read is that the only thing this bill does is expand the group of people who it is okay to assault/kill simply based on their lifestyle changes. In other words, you can't kill someone just because they're gay, Buddhist, Belgian, short, or ugly. It doesn't decriminalize any behavior to my reading. That concept seems to be a figment of somebody's imagination, and much like the game of telephone we played as small children, the actual facts of the bill have gotten more twisted with each telling.
A hate crime occurs at least once every hour in the
Wasn't this predicted recently?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gvUetkOxJwgY0GbCxg1_f75A1CqA
It's not a crime to state your religious views in public.
We don't have to keep it in our homes or our churches. Freedom of religion covers that too!
To bring in an oil well........ sm
takes about 10 to 14 days, depending on the area being drilled. This is for a land rig, not an off-shore rig. I live in a very oil and gas rich area of the country and I see them going up and coming down in a matter of days.
You know better than to bring
the Big JC into conversations on this board. Liberal nut jobs will start screaming about how church and government should be separate and how dare we force our religion on them. Next we will go into staying out of women's uteruses and allow the murder of unborn children but OMG.....don't even think about shooting wolves in Alaska as a predator control program because that is just horrible!!!
Ill go there this weekend and bring
you back some posts. I just went there once and could not stomach it. I havent checked out the Dem underground board yet.
sally bring your
post regarding Mccain's lack of support for troops up the top. It is highly relevant and I think it is buried in the muck and name-calling below.
Bring on the Miracle Gro. lol. nm
nm
Don't bring a bat to a gunfight.
/
Aaah, you want to bring it up here....okay
You seemed to have lived a very privileged life but
my family wasn't privileged. We did for ourselves and never felt we were better than others as your family did. We didn't use others to do our work for us. My father, mother, grandfather and grandmother worked side by side with blacks, doing the same jobs they did in factories, in the fields, you name it. I was never raised to believe I was better than others as you were. You obviusly didn't despise your family's racism too much. You still used your nanny, maids, whatever you want to call them and I'm sure you didn't wait on yourself hand and foot. So please don't sit there and sound all sanctimonious about your life. I actually lived life growing up and knew what it was to not be raised to think I was better than everyone else. I never looked at black people as someone who should "do our work" for us as you did. Perhaps you would know best about prejudice, bigotry and racism, since you were so established in a family that did. What I do know is the black people that lived close to us, and there were many, worked side by side with my family members, all being paid the same and all sweating through the summer sun working until dark to plant crops and harvest them together. My family picked cotton out in the blazing summer heat side by side with blacks as well. Did yours? Of course not.
So, until YOU'VE actually lived and worked for REAL with those you want to keep down and feel so sorry for, you need to learn to keep your mouth shut.
Nobody needs your kind trying to sound so self righteous when all you're really trying to do is ease your mind and your guilt.
Don't make that my issue.
You sound like a self-righteous hypocrit.
For Obama also to bring in that Rev?
"Black will not be asked to sit in back.... brown will be asked to stick around.... and WHITE will embrace what is right". --I am already hearing from friends who are so disappointed in that. Why do that? That does not unite anyone....only ticks off white people who have never been racists, but may be assumed to be simply for being white. Obama should have NEVER allowed this kind of statement. I do not treat any color differently than myself. I have a Chinese friend, a black friend, a Mexican friend. When we have all come so far, to dig up the past in this way is not good. I have even experienced reverse racism when trying to get a job, yet I just deal with it. If Obama is a uniter, he needs to stop this reminder of race and act as if we are all the same color.
I bring the popcorn!!
Oh, the mental picture I get from that one!! 
New Mexico, Arizona Declare Border Emergencies to Fight Crime
What a shame that these two governors had to declare states of emergency simply because we have at president who knows that this problem exists but just doesn’t care enough about preventing another 9/11 to do anything about it.
From: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000086&sid=akXph_LySDzs&refer=latin_america#
New Mexico, Arizona Declare Border Emergencies to Fight Crime
Aug. 17 (Bloomberg) -- New Mexico and Arizona governors declared states of emergency for their borders with Mexico, pledging to increase funding to stop the rise in drug smuggling and violence by illegal immigrants.
New Mexico's Bill Richardson and Arizona's Janet Napolitano blamed a lack of money from the federal government that has left the borders and their residents unprotected by U.S. patrols.
``Governor Richardson was asked to take this action by local law enforcement and ranch families.'' Billy Sparks, Richardson's chief of staff, said in a phone interview today.
The declarations were made Friday by Richardson, 47, and yesterday by Napolitano, 47. Richardson, who has been named a possible 2008 presidential candidate, said in a press release there has been ``total inaction and lack of resources from the federal government.''
The escalation in violence during the past month, including gunshots fired at Columbus, New Mexico, police chief Clare May, the attempted kidnapping of three girls and the deaths of 100 cattle along New Mexico's 180-mile border with Mexico prompted Richardson to declare the emergency, Sparks said.
The declaration makes $750,000 of state funding available in affected counties. Richardson pledged to make an additional $1 million available. The money will be used to increase local law enforcement, open a new homeland security office in the border region and help build a fence to protect livestock near Columbus.
Fences, Neighbors
Unlike some border areas in the U.S., landowners in New Mexico maintain their own fences to keep illegal immigrants off their property. In one case a landowner's entire fence was stolen, Sparks said. The U.S. Border Patrol has 109 workers for 200 miles from El Paso, Texas, across New Mexico to Arizona, said Sparks. That is expected to increase by 75 in October.
Napolitano's order makes $1.5 million available to fight crime along the border, according to her press release.
``I intend to take every action feasible to stem the tide of criminal behavior on the Arizona side of the border,'' she said.
The number of unauthorized immigrants entering the U.S. each year rose to more than 700,000 in 2004 from 140,000 in the 1980s, according to the Arizona declaration.
Questions about the security of the U.S. border with Mexico have risen since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks as officials have tried to limit movement into the U.S. of potential terrorists along with the illegal immigrants and drug smugglers. Immigration restrictions have forced more illegal crossings over landowner- built fences in Arizona and New Mexico.
The border emergency declarations were reported earlier today by the New York Times.
Numbers Jump
So far in the fiscal year that began in October, agents in the Yuma, Arizona, sector of the U.S. border patrol have captured 122,344 illegal immigrants, said Michael Gramley, spokesman for the sector. The previous record was 108,000 in 2000. The Yuma sector covers 126 miles of border in Arizona and California.
``We're taking greater strides toward reaching a higher level of border security,'' said Gramley, in a phone interview. ``The border patrol values any assistance that we receive from state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies.''
Federal officials said they have been making progress in increasing border security.
``Extraordinary progress has been made over the last couple of years as far as strengthening our borders,'' said Jarrod Agen, spokesman for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. He declined to comment on the state of emergency in Arizona and New Mexico. ``It's the authority of the governors there.''
Both governors called on authorities in Mexico to increase security on their sides of the border, the press releases said.
Mexico's Response
Mexico's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement yesterday that it had agreed after meeting with Napolitano to support her actions and work to reduce crime on its side of the border. The ministry blamed organized crime for the border problems.
``On that side and on this side there's organized crime,'' Mexican President Vicente Fox said in an interview with reporters during a visit to the northern border state of Sonora yesterday. ``On that side and this side there's drug consumption. The question is how do all the drugs that cross over there reach the consumer markets? What's being done on that side?''
Texas Governor Rick Perry, 55 doesn't plan to declare an emergency because he believes protecting the U.S. border is the federal government's responsibility, said Robert Black, Perry's spokesman, in a phone interview. Texas's 1,200-mile border with Mexico is the longest of any U.S. state with a foreign country.
``The governor had said that you can't have homeland security without the federal government,'' said Black. ``The feds can't avoid their responsibility to the states.'' To contact the reporter on this story:
Darrell Preston in Dallas at dpreston@bloomberg.net.
Last Updated: August 17, 2005 14:52 EDT
if in doubt..bring up an old GT post
MT, I have never posted on the conservative board..because the responses would boil my blood. I dont know what post you are talking about..However, reading these posts this morning, one of your conservative *friends* posted about hoarding to American Woman, how she hoards information and then blasts away with old information from old posts..I have to tell ya, I laughed at that post cause, OMG, you guys, from the conservative board, have done nothing but bring up old posts that either I have posted or have been attributed to me, over and over and over and over and over and over..**If it doubt with nothing to say, bring up an old GT post**,
I figured that'd bring out the first-graders:)
Nice to know I'm not yet over-estimating the self-flagellating opposition.
I cannot bring myself to think they made it happen, but...sm
using the who stood to benefit/gain rule in solving a crime, there is room for suspicion. War is very profitable - world bankers and Halliburton? If they were incompetent, why were some promoted, and why aren't they standing trial for that? There are just too many unanswered questions, so I think in that sense they do need to reopen the investigation and do it properly. No one and I mean NO ONE will be getting away with killing 3000 Americans.
why did you even bring this up - looks like you are trying to start a fight
Everytime a subject is brought out you seem to like to interject a bash to Sam. I've been reading the posts and nowhere in response to my post here did I see sam post a "message with the express intent of wreaking havoc and instigating argument". I'm reading the responses to my post about issues and I'm not seeing one from sam called "let the games begin", so I have no idea what you are talking about. If your talking about another post awhile back, then start a new thread, but for Pete's sake don't drag it into mine. Forget sam - it looks like you are the one who is trying to start arguments. Leave your personal hatred out of this and be an adult for once. Posts like this I would expect from my 12 year old, but we are adults here. What's frustrating is to finally start reading about a lot of issues that both sides would like to know about and info they are sharing with us and then all of a sudden - bam, here comes your post bashing sam. I'm sitting here now looking at all the responses to my post and I'm not seeing the one you are talking about. Lets stick to issues and facts. It also sounds like some other posters want that too.
You bring up such a good point...
my partner drives a school bus in 2 areas, a very impoverished area, and then in the 'upper class' area, and he never gets over all the kindness and gifts he gets from the poorest of people during holidays, while the more affluent areas not even give nothing, they do not even treat him as a person.
I have noticed that during post office drives, you always see the most donated goods hanging on the mailboxes in poor neighborhoods, and very rarely anything from the huge gigantic housing developments. not to say they do not give but it really says SO MUCH.
we are musicians here where I live also and even the money-making machine bars and restaurants, they want to get everything free, they are making musicians around here go broke and do not care at all. they hold open mics and get everyone to play for free, while over-charging for every other little service, and give the musicians nothing, not even a free pop or coffee (or drink if you drink).
by the way, these establishments all boast they are christians/family establishments.
Nope, but that's where the movement to bring it
It USED to be a private decision. And even if you wackos manage to get Roe v Wade overturned, it will STILL be a private decision & procedure, and women and teenagers will still continue to obtain abortions, regardless of how much it is legislated against. The only difference will be in the safety of the procedure.
Clean hospital OR, or dimly-lit back-alley? I've had friends nearly die from the former. I choose the latter.
If you insist, we could always bring Bristol
unlike McC's supporters, I actually listen to my candidate when he says off limits. You are too covered with mud to realize he was defending your idiotic VP candidate and trying to shield her and her family from the glare of some VERY unfavorable media. The only chickens around this roost coming back are the ones that W set loose in the coop. I'll pass on following up the skeletons in McC's closet out of respect for my candidate's feelings. REAL American family values tell us not to go there.
I did not bring up Obama. The fact is
we don't need that promise from him as we are already doing it, and have been for years! Perhaps our older retired women will catch onto the new fertility efforts and start getting their pay raises, too!
Bring your balls and we'll all go!
Spare me to death.
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