I agree with a couple things you say - see message
Posted By: me/Kaydie on 2008-10-09
In Reply to: I see why a lot of people leave this board, the dominatrices - MTPockets
I stopped coming to the board for awhile for a couple reasons. First, I got way behind on my work (shame on me). Second because I keep going back between voting for JM, then BO, then JM, then BO, etc. Everytime I hear something new about one or the other I decide to switch, so rather than look the fool and write good or bad on one thing I just stopped. I do not believe people hate Obama. It's more like we are afraid of what will happen to the country if he gets in. And yes we are also concerned what will happen if JM gets in too, but more afraid of BO (BTW - I think I will be voting for the constitutional party). I don't like either choice and I think they are both bad for the country.
I do agree with you that I feel like I'm in school again with people fighting with you but not offering any solutions. And you know what - it's more of the Obama supporters that are bashing the McCain supporters. I know people don't want to hear that because I find more people who are democrats live their life in the "victim state" and like to always blame the republicans for everything bad that's happened and will never look to their own party. I truly believe it is Franks, Cox, & Dodd who are a lot to blame for what has happened economically, but it is easier to bash Bush because it happened while he was in office, but honestly this is not his fault whether you want to believe that or not. Also it isn't McCains fault either because he warned everyone 2 years ago. Also, I haven't read any of the posts, but I found out yesterday that Franks was boyfriend to one of the top people at FMFM that got a big kickback.
So, at this point I'm getting to the point where I don't care who is president. Whether it is McCain or Obama I will continue to get up each day, brush my teeth and work (hopefully).
But you know what is ugly to me on this board is the people who defend McCain are being bashed by the Obama supporters and then they turn around and say they are being picked on (again their stuck there in the victim mode).
Everyone is allowed their opinions, but don't bash the other side and then say poor me, we're being picked on and then call the other side intolerant and ugly.
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Actually there were a couple things to add - (sm)
'Change', as I would like to see it, would also include a new U.S. President who was not hated by the rest of the world's inhabitants and leaders, nor mocked and ridiculed. Instead, it would be a President that took the time to listen when other world leaders were speaking, and who in turn others would listen to when he or she was speaking.
Our new President would be someone who put some thought into when and where to send U.S. aid when it was needed abroad, and when NOT to. That same President would not turn away when people or cities (such as New Orleans) needed help during a disaster.
I would also like to see this country start to treat its animals better than it currently does. Larger and better-run animal shelters, and more education and effort put into spay-and-neuter programs. Why there is no mandadory spay/neuter law on the books for household pets is beyond me, but judging by the overcrowded shelters, rescues, and pet-ads on Craigslist, maybe it's time. And although I'm not a member of PETA, nor a vegetarian, I think that animals who are raised for our consumption, who in essence give their lives for us in the end, need their days on Earth to be far better than they currently are. They should live happily and non-squalid conditions while they're alive, and when the time for slaughter finally comes, it should be quick, painless, non-traumatic & humane. And I would like to see our government start to lean on other countries which treat their animals HORRIBLY, China being one of the worst.
2A couple of things here. If you are an MT, you should know
If you ever attended a high school American/English literature class, you may recall a fairly extensive study of the concept of metaphor. Intelligent, gifted writers and speakers often use them to describe, illustrate or define. Obama is using metaphor here, as he often does.
Another concept taught at that level of language study is the notion of CONTEXT. You do recall that, don't you? McCain supporters have an adversion to context and have an almost universal compulsion to ignore context and often skew / slaughter Obama'statements by lifing them out of context and manipulating parts of his messages by placing them in a new "McCain" context. That is what you are doing here.
If you are feeling too lazy this morning to visit the dictionary, here is a link:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epiphany
1. (initial capital letter) a Christian festival, observed on January 6, commemorating the manifestation of Christ to the gentiles in the persons of the Magi; Twelfth-day.
2. an appearance or manifestation, esp. of a deity.
3. a sudden, intuitive perception of or insight into the reality or essential meaning of something, usually initiated by some simple, homely, or commonplace occurrence or experience.
4. a literary work or section of a work presenting, usually symbolically, such a moment of revelation and insight.
Entry #1 indicates this term to be a Christian concept. It is really comical when on the one hand McCain supporters vow and declare that Obama is a Muslim terrorist, but on the other hand attack him for his close mentoring by as association with Christian Jeremiah Right, making him a Muslim AND Christian at the same time. However, your more recent predominating theme is that Obama is a Moslem. Since you guys insist that Obama is not a Christian, he could not possibly be referring to entry #1. That also makes reference to entr #2 unlikely, especially since that meaning of the word is typically encountered in Christian eschatologic bodies of work or discussions as such.
Your attention is drawn to enties #3 and 4. In commonplace everyday discourse, those are the meanings that are most often used. Epiphany in this context means perception or inspiration. Inspiration is what Obama provides for his supporters. Hope and change. Nothing particularly new or controversial there.
Actually he was right about a couple of things
believe it or not. Wasn't he also the one who said Obama didn't have enough experience to be pres? LOL.
Sorry.....you know me....have to take issue with a couple of things...
Number one being this mess we created. It just chaps me for people to blame the US, especially US citizens, for this so'called *mess*. Fatah and Hamas have been fighting over Palestine as much as Israel and Fatah and Hamas have been fighting over Israel, and that was going on LONG before we went into Iraq. What is happening there is not fueled by Iraq at all. What is happening there is now is being fueled by Iran, and don't think for a minute it is not.
I agree with what you said about bin Laden and Saddam as far as their ideals being diametrically opposed...however, bin Laden saw something in him that he needed...power and money and the ability to move both over the world, and crazy enough to buy into attacking the United States in a spectacular way. Iran did not want any part of that, because nutty as Amadinejad is, he did not want to be taken down like Saddam was taken down. Bin Laden is crazy like a fox...he will use anyone or anything, no matter WHAT their politics are, if it furthers HIS goals. Sorry, ravenswing, I think it is naive in the face of all we know about Saddam and his support of terrorism and his infliction of same on his own people, the fact that the Achille Lauro murderer lived out his days in Baghdad, that Zarqawi was there for at least a year before we went in, bounties to families of suicide bombers and on and on and on....just because they had different religious ideals meant nothing, because they had one common thing...they both hated the United States and all she stands for.
And the comparison of fear of Russia invading and the threat the terrorists pose....I am sorry, I truly see nothing similar. 9-11 changed all that...forever.
I never said terrorists in full force. I said car bombings...train bombings...subway bombings...tunnel bombings...dam bombings...suicide bombers in schools, malls, supermarkets, restaurants, sporting events....that can be carried out by a handful of men, just like 9-11 was, with death tolls in the hundreds to thousands and the ability to forever change life and freedom the way we know it in this country. In short, live like Israel has had to live for decades. I believe in order to forestall that we have to adopt the attitude if they hit us, we hit them harder and at the source...the funding...the support, the Saddams of the world. The lackies who kill themselves are not the ones we need to target. And I believe that is why we have not been attacked yet. Because they know we will fight back. But once they sense weakness, and sorry to say to me that means a liberal in the White House...they will go for the throat, because that is what animals do. And the fact that they are willing to die for what they want and a great number of Americans don't feel like there is anything worth dying for...could very well be our undoing. There are worse things than having your head cut off...among them fear of going into a supermarket, a mall, a train, a plane, a bus....a hospital...a school. Think about that for a moment. Think about hearing every day about a suicide bombing somewhere in this country, a car bombing, a school bombing...just think about it.
I know I have a future to look forward to where there is no war, no pain, and pure love rules the day....but not in this life, not in this world. But I am in this world now, and in this life I feel I am charged to try to support, defend and preserve the only country in the world founded on Christian principles. Had we not strayed so far from our beginnings...who knows where we would be now? But, I also know...everything...EVERYthinghappens for a reason and God is in control. As my pastor and friend used to say....It is getting gloriously dark. I finally understand what he meant by that.
God bless!
A couple of small things...
Intolerance is not something I associate with being liberal. Perhaps I need to adjust my thinking.
My compassion extends to all those hurting and in need, just like yours does. However, as you well know and seem so jaded by, one person cannot focus on every area, every part of humanity, every issue. You must choose your issue and throw all your energy into it. I would say that the anti-war arena is pretty well covered, wouldn't you? The anti-abortion arena, however, is not. And that is where I am moved to place my focus. Because there are people affected by war who CAN speak for themselves. They DO have the ability to at least try and protect themselves. Unborn children do not have that luxury. They are totally at the mercy of others, and if you want to talk about a horrendous way to die...there is no more horrendous way to die than being aborted. In a way, it is the ultimate betrayal if someone does not defend the most vulnerable among us. That is why I chose that issue and that is why I will speak out against it with my last breath.
You call me supercilious, yet post something like the nature of conservatism to have lack of empathy? A rather broad brush stroke I would say. How you can criticize something else for having no empathy and turn your back on the unborn...there is NO balance in that to see.
There is no spin, piglet. The facts are obvious. You have chosen to exclude the most needy and vulnerable and even go to the extreme of being highly critical of me for doing so. No spin there.
It is obvious you call things the way you perceive them, and have intolerance for any who do not agree with your perception. Again, that is not a trait I associate with liberals. And again..perhaps I need to adjust my thinking.
No one is asking you to apologize, piglet. These last few posts...amazing. If it were aimed AT liberals I would swear it WAS Ann Coulter. Especially the "I call things the way I perceive them, I don't sugar coat it and I won't apologize for it." VINTAGE Ann Coulter. :-)
I have heard a couple different things
I've heard that there could be 3 different scenarios regarding McCain.
1. He's remains in the race and is elected.
2. Republicans know that he will have a hard time winning, so they will sometime either before or at the convention just replace him with another republican candidate and claim his health is poor.
3. Bush will just declare martial law and remain in office.
IMHO - either way this is quite a scary election year. I don't support either candidate so am not voting this year. I just think the whole election is scary and both candidates I don't trust because it's hard to believe either one cares anything about the american people. Well I think Obama cares more about the American people than McCain does, but you gotta think about the people who are running Obama and what they want and they are the ones who don't care about the American people.
I see a couple decent things and especially
like this one:
"The measure also contains a provision denying lawmakers the automatic cost-of-living pay increase they are due next Jan. 1."
We shall see if that happens.
Couple of things I have noticed:
It seems the wording is always the same in O's responses. Every project or agenda on his mind always is at a critical point and must be dealt with now, but the situtation in Iran - wait and see? Everyone seemed to want to know what O was going to say and my first thought was: Where is the UN?
Agree!! My DH knows a couple
who were/are hard-working, intelligence on the slow side, he would say mentally-retarded. They were looking to buy a house, had a good-sized downpayment, got the mortgage, but not understanding what they were signing, lost their house because their interest rate climbed and climbed. YES, I definitely agree, BLAME IT ON THE LENDERS, their greed, their sleeze, and the fact that the interest rates were allowed to go through the roof!!
They are two different things - see message
Not all people who have an alcoholic beverage gets hooked like cigarettes. And when you are having a drink at a restaurant there is no toxic alcoholic fumes making it impossible for other people to enjoy their meals (and breath). People don't die from second-hand alcohol whatever. Smoking is horrible. I used to smoke but luckily quit over 25 years ago, so I know how addicting cigarettes are. But to a nonsmoker it's horrible. When I used to be around my mom and she smoked I literally could not breath. There was no air. It's not like that with alcohol and not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic. It's also horrible when your sitting in your car at a stop light and all of a sudden you start smelling cigarette smoke inside your vehicle and you look over and there is someone smoking in the car stopped next to you. There is something about that that just makes the lungs close up and all you can do is try to find somewhere where you can take a deep breath and breath again. I feel if you want to smoke that is your right and go ahead, but please don't do it around others that choose not to, because it does affect others. My mom died from lung cancer and it was horrible horrible horrible to see her suffer. I also had an uncle that died from his years of being an alocholic. Not a pretty site either. But people can have a drink of alcohol and not ever have it again. Not the same with cigarettes.
As for movies/TV and young people, if the parents don't agree with that I would then say they need to talk to their kids. I don't think it sends any message to them. I just don't see that happening all the time on TV either. In fact I can't remember the last TV or movie where someone was stressed and picked up a drink. Everytime I see someone stressed in a TV/movie they usually talk a walk or a drive.
But just give the govt time, am sure they are going to do something to regulate alcohol. They've already started talking about a 200% tax on beer here in our state.
Well...I agree with some things but (sm)
I completely disagree with partial birth abortion, but I don't necessarily think early abortion should be illegal. I think it is wrong yes, but should it be illegal? I don't think so. I don't think you should mix religious beliefs with laws necessarily. And I have not even thought twice about Obama supporting gay marriage. I am not voting for him, but it is because of my issue with his associations and because of his partial birth abortion stance. Those are just my beliefs.
I agree....I think they took things too far.
There was no reason for that type of commercial ad. Of course, I'm not a fan of Peta anyway. I think they take things WAY too far when it comes to animals anyway, but that is just my opinion.
Their add was definitely distasteful and crude. They should have used their brains on that one but obviously didn't.
I agree. There are some things that (sm)
have me going "WHAAAAAAAAAAT???," just like I did with George W. Bush before I realized what his scam (unjustifiable war in Iraq and others)
I remember giving him the benefit of the doubt until his chronic lying turned me against him. But I needed at least three years to do that.
I'm prepared to do the same thing with Obama: Give him at least three years. None of us is mind-readers on this board, and perhaps he is choosing not to share everything with us and the world (as it should be).
Meanwhile, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.
Regarding the ILLEGAL alien situation, I couldn't agree more with you. There are laws on the books that make it pretty clear what should be done with ILLEGAL aliens. I believe Bush ignored those laws so that the richer could pay less than poverty salaries to make the rich even richer. But that took me a few years to figure out. I will give the same three years to Obama before I decide to not vote for him again.
Anyway, whether we agree or disagree, I am just soooooo glad to see you back here again. You know how to debate. 
Those things are awful, I agree - but he is not going to fix them! nm
x
Okay....what things do you agree with Obama that...
trump all the things I mentioned? Just trying to understand.
I agree thanks. - see message
I always love hearing other people's opinions as long as they don't attack me personally and you don't. That's what makes us a great country - freedom! I'm glad you did submit the link with the awful "decoration". I think there is a point where people go to far. It's one thing to express your opinions, a whole other issue when you set up displays. If it's halloween and you want to hang something, how bout a ghost or a pirate (like in the movie Pirates of the Carribean), not political figures that could be our next leader and VP. As for the fraternity hanging Obama that is quite distasteful and the dean should bring whoever did it into the ofce and explain to them what is wrong about it. As for the Obama one sitting in front of the skeleton, I couldn't quite figure out the meaning of it, but upon looking at it you could tell it was from someone who hates Obama, and I'm sure lots of others knew the meaning. She should take it down either way. I say at Halloween political figures should be off limits in being used as "decorations". I too would like to keep talking with you, and I knew there was no argument in what you were saying, just bringing something equally revolting to my attention and I thank you for that.
I agree with you. (no message below)
i agree with you - no message
x
I agree with you - see message
I posted above but I specifically wanted to reply to your message. There has been no racism. I've said it all along when democrats/liberals start losing an argument the next thing they do is scream at you that your a racist. They don't even know what nationality you are and they'll call you a racist simply because you didn't vote or agree with Obama.
On another note about your comment about Gov. Palin - the hatred is absolutely horrible and disgusting. I'm on this site and I see at least 20 to 30 posts bashing her and none of them are for issues of substance. None of them are because of choices or issues. It's all because of clothes, her hair, the way she looks, her glasses, all surface stuff - nothing of substance.
I am hoping this board would be for bring issues to the table and having a reasonable discussion. Not bashing someone because they don't vote or support who they do.
I agree too. No Message
x
I agree with you so much - see message
There were too many issues going on. One day I'd be supporting Obama, the next day I'd support McCain. It's not a matter of "bipolar" or whatever insulting remark a crat is trying to do, it's a matter of each candidate had good and no so good attributes. Not voting for McCain had nothing to do with his age at all. In fact I probably defended him on that issue more than others. I wanted someone who had experience, not someone who was inexperienced and didn't know what they were doing. It came down to the last day just closing my eyes and voting. I was not sold on the whole Obama thing, but I did not see the whole congress thing coming. Next I know the dems have control of everything and now it's just getting worse every day. And it's not from past administrations, it from actions that are going on today, yesterday, and what is going to be happening in the future. I'm sorry to say I voted the way I did, but I thought if everything is bad we need someone reasurring and not calling us "my friends" in every other sentence. McCain did not build a lot of confidence I had in the party, and if it was Ron Paul or Mit Romney that had won it would have been a whole different story and I would have been more solid in my choice. I just remember what my DH keeps telling me. Who we see giving the speeches are not the "real" ones in charge (who have the power).
I have probably more conservative values than liberal (except on religious, abortion, and gay issues - then I lean more liberal), but as for financial and security issues I am most definitely conservative. I guess I probably should not have voted for Obama, but then again if I didn't maybe my vote would have been the one that McCain would have won with. HA HA HA.
Last thought is... I am helping my families who are unemployed and need money for food. Why would I want to give it to the people I don't know who refused to work for the handouts the liberals have promised them. If I want to support them it should be my decision and who, not forced on me. I don't depend on others to help me and they should not depend on us for their handout. I know that even a lot of people who supported Obama feel the same way. So at least I consider myself in good company. It's the kool-aid drinkers that give them a bad name.
And Mrs. B's attitude? She can keep it.
I do agree with you - see message
I do agree with you. Here are some of my points I'll try to explain why I'm mad... Superbowl party? Who cares everyone has them and yes I can see hot dogs, etc there. However, what makes me upset is that this is not a good time to be having weekly parties using taxpayers money to be funding the parties, and if he has a budget the same goes (but from the articles I'm reading, it's funded by taxpayers dollars). He needs to cut back on spending. Weekly parties for staff is unnecessary spending. I understand the necessity for entertaining, but he should have enough sense to know this is not the ideal time to be having weekly parties. And also to show some respect for the WH. It's heartbreaking to know our founding fathers sacrificed to make this country great and the white house is supposed to be a symbol of respect, but it's not anymore.
Entertaining to a certain degree is one thing, excessive unnecessary spending and partying while the country is going down the tubes is another. Reminds me of that commercial...
Cost to have high-priced entertainers weekly at the WH - $25,000
Dinner per plate for each person - $5,000
unnecessary spending while the country goes down the tubes - Priceless
I don't agree - see message
There is not just 2 sides (pro or anti). It's more than just "for or against" him. There are many of us in between. There are many who were (past tense) for him. Liked his ideas on the campaign trail, etc. (and voted for him). Since coming into power he has not kept his promises. He instituted programs he never talked about on the campaign trail (probably cos he knew he would not get elected if he told us ahead of time that he would increase taxes on the middle income, send more jobs overseas, triple our deficit, take away or right to bear arms, destroy the constitution, and all the other things he's doing now) - how many people do you think would have really voted for him if they knew ahead of time the destruction he would bring to the country? Also, printing money as if it's monopoly money, he's made the country less safe, embarrassed us by bowing to his leader, apologizing to other countries for how "ignorant and selfish" we are, brought into his cabinet tax cheats and people who are not qualified to fill the positions they hold, has the crats pitted against pubs (not the unity that he professed he would be the only one who could bring both sides together). He fell back against his word of making things more transparent, giving the people a chance to look through things before approving, flip/flop, flip/flop, one day it's this then the next day he goes back on his word, he is taxing the middle income higher than we have seen since Clinton (we have to pay for all those programs he's giving away). He went back on his word about bringing troops home, increased our deficit triple (no, it's not Bush's fault, it's President Soetoro's fault).
Now, with that said I think Barry is a very nice person in person. If I went out to dinner with him and Michelle and their kids I'm sure I'd have a great time and would want them as friends to hang out with. However, I don't like the decisions he (or should I say the people running the country) are making.
People can like him (I do) but not like the policies the administration is putting in place (we have to remember, he is not the one making the decisions - he is just the messenger).
As for if Michelle is pretty or not, I've never seen any posts here talking about that (I did see talk of what she wears, but that goes along with being a first lady and Laura Bush got the same criticism, as did other first ladies before her), but I haven't seen posts asking if she's pretty or not), but you know what...who cares. That's the argument I get into with my mom all the time because she bases her decisions on what someone looks like. I told her it's all a matter of personal opinion. Besides there are many people who are not "good looking" but they have a heart of gold and are a good person on the inside, and there are those who are the pretty on the outside but they have an evil/nasty personality to them.
I fully agree with you - see message
Three months is definitely enough time for a mother to decide whether or not to have the baby. After that I say no way. After that time there is always a practice called adoption.
What I take offense to is someone who claims they know what God's intentions are, and then claims that someone who mows down a person in cold blood is a messenger of god and doing his work and this is what god wants, blah, blah, blah.
I think people should think before they write. When someone professes to know exactly what god wants (and considers killing someone in cold blood an act of god) then its time for some serious medication.
I say if you agree or don't agree that's one thing, but to get on and say "oh yeah, that's what god wanted" (for someone to be mowed down in front of family and friends).
Opinions like that just tend to irritate me a bit.
I agree to a certain extent - see message
I too could care less who has affairs nowadays. Doesn't make me think any less or more of them. However - my little however :-) - He was not the President of the US - Clinton was. Clinton should have been removed from office (although then Gore would have been in charge, so I take that back now) :-) Anyway...it was the fact that Clinton had an affair that got him in trouble, it was the lies, manipulation, lies, and all the other illegal stuff he did that went along with it.
I don't particularly think they are being any less or more hard/lenient on this guy than they had with others who did the same thing. Remember John Edwards? The democrat who WAS running for VP? My point is more that you can't say "this guy was a republican that might have possibly run for VP the next election, and that's why its so bad", when you don't bring up Edwards who DID run for VP.
I feel this way...if it's a republican who is caught having an affair the liberals are sure dragging them through the mud, and if it's a democrat who is caught having an affair the conservatives drag him through the mud. I don't feel either side gets a free pass when it comes to being raked through the coals. I'm sick to death of hearing about this republican who had an affair about as sick as I was hearing about that NY guy, and Edwards, and that guy who got caught in the bathroom at some airport, etc, etc., but your making it sound like only the democrats getting picked on and that's just not true.
P.S. - We really don't need Biden to have an affair to have a field day with him, every time he opens his mouth and speaks he does a doozy on himself. HA HA HA
I totally agree with you - see message
II fee the exact way as you. If people don't agree with them they scream "racist", when they have no clue what a racist is (they use it in the form of a threat). There are plenty of racists on both sides. Voting for someone just because they are black is as bad as not voting for them because they are black. I also see that when republicans and independents talk about issues regarding not agreeing with certain issues or policies they get blasted with "your a racist" - still can't figure out that one. I'll tell you something - Martin Luther King would be ashamed of the lot of them. What I learned about Dr. King was that he was for equality for ALL people regardless of race or anything. He wanted equality to whites (not less, not more - equality). "ALL men are created equal" is what he used to say in his speeches. I hear too many times the crats something think that MLK would be a democrat, blah, blah, blah, speaking as if they knew him personally. They just so happen to like to skip over that one little truth that Dr. Martin Luther King was a registered REPUBLICAN. Whether or not he would have changed parties NOBODY knows because he is not here any longer, although I highly doubt he would have but again, NOBODY, knows. All we know is that he was a republican when he was alive. How I wish he was still here though because I believe he would tell them a thing or two. But the plain truth is they simply do not know what MLK would have done in today's time since times have changed so drastically as have the people in each party. And you're right...they don't care. They throw his name around like it's some sort of a threat. Even Chris Rock talked about that in one of his comedy routines (I think the messenger routine he does).
I would like to see more topics being discussed instead of coming here reading posts starting in with "you this or you that" calling people names and blasting anyone that does not agree with them. It's all childish rhetoric.
I'm also tired of hearing people jump on the "glee wagon" and get pure enjoyment out of seeing someones life destroyed when they are a republican, but when a democrat has been caught doing something equally (if not worse) bad then nobody is supposed to say anything.
So, like you I am sick to death of it.
I'd like to hear about issues, not that someone had an affair, but how about issues that are going to affect our individual lives, like the wasteful spending the crats keep doing, the taxes, growing govt, etc, etc. There is plenty wrong going on.
And since it was okay to bash Bush and cut him down on every single thing he did, they better quit their whining when the bad about their lord comes out. As some on this board said "Payback is a byatch". They sure don't like it when it happens to their guy.
I agree totally with you. A very negative message. nm
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Definitely agree and my apologies to the democrats - see message
Didn't mean to insult any by saying she was in the same group. I do know quite a few really good democrats with level heads and are trying to do better for the country (still wish Kucinich had made it further. I think he's a very decent person) - as are some good republicans too (Ron Paul and others) - its the left wing nuts and I always forget that not all democrats are like that. (and not all republicans are like the uber-conservatives in their parties.
So sorry democrats that I put her in the same group with you.
Hey JTBB - I agree with you for once in a long time - see message
Too many posts to reply to so I'll reply here - I read the article. This is not a once in awhile family gathering, BBQ or picnic. This is weekly business meeting. Yes, that's right - business. Religion is a business. If you just had a few people every once in awhile coming to your house that would be one thing, but the article stated they have regular meetings in the home. I think the person who wrote the article did a little bit of "fibbing" with saying they were asked if they say "praise the lord" and if they pray. Could have happened, but I highly doubt it (again that's JMO). The concern the county has is that the home is being used as a business without a business permit. What they are doing is something that should be held in churches - which by the way ALL churches should be taxed seeing as they are all businesses.
I do agree very much with your assessment that these are the same people trying to take away the rights of the LGBT community. It does seem to be a one-way avenue. For the most part all the communities I have lived in the Christians want their rights, but they are also the first to want to remove the rights of other groups if they don't coincide with their beliefs.
If religious people want to have a small gathering in their home that's fine, but bringing a congregation of people into your home is a business, especially if it is on a regular basis.
People have bible meetings all the time in their own homes, but they don't have them on a regular basis and they don't have large groups making them stand out. They should keep their religious assemblies where it belongs - in the churches - and because its a business it should be taxed.
One other note is that the article mentioned what about tupperware parties or baseball games. Well those are not regular business meeetings going on.
I am sick of the hypocracy they have. I'm tired of hearing about "poor us, we can't pray, we can't do this, we can't do that, their trying to take away our rights". Yet everytime when I hear what is really going on I find the story has been exagerated to fit the "poor us" philosophy. Good example is this story. It started out with "poor us, we can pray in our own homes", when the truth comes out they are holding regular business meetings with their congregation meeting at their home residence. Two entirely different things.
typo - meant cite things as hoax, not "site" things
Just thought I'd correct that before I get pummeled by the people who want to believe snopes is a truthful organization.
No one knows what went on with this couple...
before he left. I am sure that was not the only couple who a man returning from the service divorced upon return, or women who divorced men who were over there serving. His ex-wife maintains that they are still close and apparently she does not hold the sour grapes personally that the public seems to hold, who were not involved and do not know the intimate details. It doesn't seem really fair to post things like this when the whole story is not known.
This is what McCain's ex-wife said about him:
"I'm crazy about John McCain and I love him to pieces," Carol McCain told the New York Times, "but I'm just not going to do interviews."
She does not sound bitter to me.
In the last couple of weeks,
I've received several envelopes in the mail that were sealed with a few inches torn open at the top of the envelope. One of them was a check from my part-time employer, and it was easy to see through the envelope that it was a check folded in half. (At least they didn't remove the contents like they did with you.)
I've never experienced anything like this in my life, and I wonder if this has been happening to any other liberals out there. 
LOL. You forgot a couple....sm
911 gone bonkers brigade (one from Charlie Sheen after he got attacked)and Mike Malloy's - yes, I am a liberal and I shall eat your eyeballs.
The Scholars for 911 Truth have quite an impressive group of members. Here is a link to their membership page:
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/WhoAreWe.html
A couple of questions...
what proof do you have that the war has anything at all to do with oil...and what do you mean...you "bought" your patriotism? "Served it?" Curious as to what that means. And ya know...I have been kinda tired for YEARS as the terrorists picked off our people by the hundreds until they hit the big one on 9-11 and took out 3000 at one time. Just wondering if you think that was worth fighting over. Just wondering. If not...what? When they kill 8,000? 10,000? How many will it take? Just wondering. How much innocent blood will have to be spilled here to get you as angry at the terrorists as you are at conservatives? Just wondering.....
A couple notes
Ty Sam for your unbiased comments. I understand you totally - just bringing up issues you have heard.
Here's a couple things I understand about the situation.
Bill & Hillary were trying to file this petition, but not until after she started losing. It ranks up there with the "Florida fiasco" she created but then tried to overturn. In fact I believe they were trying to claim he was born in Kenya at the same time they said Florida didn't matter and agreed to not count Florida until they were losing, then they decided they wanted their votes (unfortunately it was a little too late for them). Bill & Hillary were (are) so desparate to get back into the white house that they were grasping at anything. I think it was ruled that Barack was born in Hawaii (not Kenya) according to the birth certificate. Which I'm sure had to be verified before he would even be eligible to run. My gut feeling is that Bill & Hillary were trying to get a lot of people to believe that he was born in Kenya so they would vote against him. Luckily for Barack their "plan" didn't work. It would have been devastating for him to lose based on a lie put out by the Clintons mis-informing people just so they could win (as I read that I just realized that is what campaign ads do. They put out lies about their oponents - both sides). Anyway...heard it was overturned and his birth certificate does say he was born in Hawaii. Also, like the other poster said if your born to American citizens but are born outside the US (like the military in Germany) you are still considered a natural born citizen.
On a side note, I heard Gov. Ed Rendell talk and for the first time I finally agree with him on what he was saying. For the first time he finally made statement that were rational. I do know that he was big big big Hillary supporter and spoke out against Obama when she was running against him, but yesterday or the day before I heard him talking and he said that Obama was clearly qualified and would make a fine president, blah, blah, blah (can't remember the whole speech). He went down the list of things he doesn't think McCain is good at and why he would not be a good president, and went down the list as to why he felt Barack was the best candidate. So for him to do a total turn around I gained a little respect for him.
yep, I found this and a couple more, see above....sm
haven't had time to read through it all, though.
A couple of reasons
I am a transcriptionist, but I only graduated in May, so I am not up to the speed some of you seasoned MTs are. I'm getting better everyday, but I am still in school to finish my Psych degree so I can only work part time. My husband just graduated in May also and since the job market is so bad he is having trouble finding a job (he is a history major so that's hard enough as it is!) He currently works for his dad building houses for $300 a week. We were renting a house right before we got married and we happened to find a house for sale that was as much in mortgage as we were paying in rent, so we decided to purchase it (fixed interest, not subprime or balloon) and have an investment rather than renting and never seeing that money again.
Of course when my husband finds a career position we will be better off (I pray!) but as it stands right now we will probably make $33,000 between us before taxes if he doesn't.
Believe me, I would love to get checks in the mail, but it's just not fair. I'm finishing my psych degree because I want to be able to help people (and I do want to be able to make more). I love MT, but at the rate we are going, I don't know if we will be around much longer.
But lets put it this way, with your 40K this year, and me making 30K for the sake of simplicity, would it be fair for you to give me 5K so we both have 35K? That would probably really upset you. You would probably tell me to work more if I wanted as much as you, right?
And shoot, if I could get that, then why don't I just make 20K, and you can give me 10K, so we both have 30K?
In the perfect world where EVERYONE worked to get up in life, then yes, "sharing the wealth" may work. Unfortunately, there are to many lazy people out there that will see that they are getting something for nothing and will just continue to do nothing. Not fair to hard working individuals like yourself and myself (I consider myself hard working since I do work part time 7 days a week and take classes!) :)
Whew sorry that was so long!
A couple of us on here tried to tell everyone this. No one listens. sm
Ignorant and uninformed Americans are going to get exactly what they deserve. While everybody is busy arguing over stupid little issues and who is red and who is blue, they are destroying our country.
You can also bank on Diebold making sure votes for 3rd party candidates ended up under the 2 main candidates totals too. I think Obama was more popular, but there is fraud in every election and I doubt this one was an exception.
There is no difference between McCain and Obama because they are both beholden to the same interests. We really have a one-party system and they have everything completely monopolized.
Pay attention to what goes on in the economy now that the election is over. The PPT has been keeping the markets falsely propped up.
What a couple of goofballs!
I am the original poster of the message you found so offensive, and I have not posted anything since. I have just been watching the two of you argue and call each other names when you are both on the same side.
It has been quite entertaining!
Thanks. Here are just a couple comments
It is true. People can disagree without getting nasty. I think everyone gets in a dander when they feel they are being attacked for their beliefs/opinions.
I did vote for him and fully supported him while he was running against Hillary. All I knew was (to me) she was one of the worst people to run for office. She had no clue, road on the coattails of her husband. Everything good he did she claimed it as hers, but everything bad he did she had nothing to do with. Her lies were so blatant and then when she came out and told the public the reason she was staying in (in case something (too horrible to mention) happened to Obama, she'd be right there and even brought up JFK's name (or maybe it was RFK - one of the Kennedy's)). I just thought that was the worst worst worst ever. She may have been thinking and hoping for it but to actually say it just truly made me realize how much more I disliked her and the thought of her getting in literally made me nauseous. I also voted for Obama in the primaries because I said enough of the Clintons, they destroyed what little faith I had in the democratic party back then (I voted for Bill the first time but not the second) and all their crooked deals and illegal doings going on while they were in there, there was no way in you know where I wanted any of that crowd back (who knew Obama was going to bring them all back - Arrrrggggg - that's my word of frustration). After the primary's ended I started reading and hearing more and more about Obama's plans and speeches, etc. I thought to myself, well listening to his voice give speeches would be much better than listening to McCain with his "my friends" every other sentence he speaks, but then listening to Obama it got to a point where I'd just be counting how many uh, uh, umm, er, uh, uh. I even had some bets with friends who would get the closest number would buy the other a beer. HA HA. Anyway...I do say give the guy a chance, but I know that a lot of dems would be all over McCains back if he had gotten elected.
What I am seeing and hearing and reading is not very hopeful. I listen to the economist who know what's going on and have the solutions. It looks like a pretty dim future and I'm not blinded like a lot are with Obama's speeches. I want to know the truth and I'm not getting it from them (go figure).
What I don't like is that Obama is no different than all the other politicians out there. He lied to us during his campaign just like all the other presidents lied to us about what they would do. He kept boasting about change but he's not bringing change. He keeps spewing this hope message. Well its now time to put hope to work and stop talking about it as though he is still campaigning.
However, I respect anyone who has a difference of opinions. They (like me) are entitled to the way they feel. Like my mom used to say to me, I may disagree with you, but I respect you and people can have conversations without getting nasty.
Another one from a couple of years ago
that is coming true right now is While Europe Slept. Scary but true.
So, if a gay couple gets married...(sm)
exactly how does it affect you? Does it make you less of a heterosexual? Does it make you less of a christian? Does it turn your finances upside down? Tell me, exactly how does it affect you personally?
They also teach about Hitler in school. Does that mean that your children will be like Hitler?
Oh, I don't know....a couple of shots over the bow....
That would do the trick and get their attention. What good does it do to have a Navy ship either on its way or already there if we can't utilize it's firepower?
A couple of points
1. The Department of Defense budget is being increased.
2. We would not be in our grave situation in this industry if we had unions to protect us against some egregious practices by MTSOs.
3. We would have a 2-party government right now if the Republicans would quit playing silly games. It seems like every week, they manage to do something stupider than the week before.
4. A vote for Mickey Mouse would have been more logical than a vote for the McCain/Palin ticket.
A couple more points
1. Defense spending is being cut, not increased.
2. Unions are not the answer to everything - just as those in Detroit.
3. Republicans alone are not to blame for the break down in the 2-party system - there were Democrats that voted against the stimulus bill and the other garbage being churned out of DC.
4. I would have gladly voted for Mickey Mouse, as long as it wasn't a vote for Obama - Mickey would probably be doing a better job.
A couple of points
1. Percentages, as with our industry, where 30 years ago I was making 5 cents a line and earning at least $100 a day, and have now gotten up to 8 cents a line with all kinds of "technical advances" that keep me barely above $100 a day?
2. I live in Detroit (well, very close, about 8 miles away). If my husband had not been a Union Ironworker, we would have continued struggling alone with jobs that would not have allowed us to live with any security or luxuries, like buying a new car every once in awhile.
3. Gotta tell it like it is.
4. Gotta tell it like it is.
So basically, I live in Michigan and I don't believe the unions are the cause of the auto company's struggles. I would suggest that poor management practices by all the folks who make the really big bucks is far more to blame. The unions have been forced to take cut after cut, including loss of retirement health care, and the beat continues to go on.
I tried to keep "trash talk" out of my response and it's unfortunate that you do not see it that way. One good thing about our country is that people are allowed to have opposing opinions. Not everybody thinks like you do - actually, more than half the country as per the last election.
I could use a couple more honey-do's....nm
nm
How does a gay couple getting married take away
The are not attempting to outlaw hetero marriage, so how are you deprived of your rights?
Haven't been here in a couple days
I just saw this message and wanted to write back. I did vote for Clinton in his first term. I really liked what he was offering for the country. Was a better choice than Bush Sr. After 4 year of those 2 bozos (and the Gores) in there I voted for Dole (I think it was Dole running - its been too many years). Then when Mr. Stiff (gore) was running I thought no way, we finally are getting rid of those two ninny's so voted for Bush, then when Kerry ran I didn't vote cos I didn't like any. So I go back and forth. I read history. No matter what candidate you support, no matter how much you like them you have to be objective and look at the bad with the good and to me we need a person with better values than Clinton. We were so "zonked" (for lack of better term) with so many taxes with clintons were in it was awful. We never got ahead and never had anything. They showed exactly how much they cared about the low to middle income people - it's called NADA, nothing, zip, zilch, and screw you. They took care of their rich friends, lobbyist, and CEO executives while the rest of us literally got screw over big time. So, no I'm not left wing or right wing. I vote my conscious. Can't stand Rush Limbo, Hannity (the Leprecaun) and the absolute nonsense they speak. On the flip side I cannot stand the liberal talk shows either. I can't even think of the names of any of them cos I turned them off years ago and became a much better informed and calmer person. I just read both sides of opinions and make my own choices.
Hi anon....just a couple of thoughts....
right or wrong, there are more people in this country who do not consider themselves "citizens of the world," having never been outside our borders and have no desire to do so. That does not make them bad or wrong. And they have a mistrust of someone who says he is a citizen of the world who is married to a woman who was never proud of the US in her adult life until her husband ran for President. That does not make them bad people either. That is just the way they feel. I am one of those people. I have never traveled outside the US and have no desire to. I do not call myself a citizen of the world. If you want to, if anyone wants to, that is fine by me. However, if someone is running for President of the United States, to lead our country, I personally...and again, a personal feeling of my own, feel that he should be here in this country, talking to Americans about what he wants to do for this country, here. There is plenty of time, if and when he gets the job, to go abroad and talk to the other leaders, as Presidents have done before him. I think it smacks of a little arrogance that he chose to do this, but again...that is MY perception. And the fact that one of his senior advisors said to the press corp on the plane on this trip in a briefing"When the President of the United States goes..." and had to be reminded that Obama did not have the job yet...well, kinda sealed it for me. I just don't trust the man. I don't think he has this country's best interests at heart...because he and I disagree about what that is.
I whole-heartedly agree about the campaign managers. Y'know, anon, I just wish we could have a debate where we inject both of them with truth serum before they start, and gag all their advisors until all questions had been answered, and let regular folks like us ask the questions. Only THEN will we know the truth. LOL. Have a great day!
I see your point - here are a couple thoughts
I do see your point. I don't want to believe someone would be that vulgar and call his wife that, but seeing as nobody is either denying or confirming it, it could be or could not be true. But two things I do find odd that leads me to believe that it is possible he said it.
1. They are not denying it. If it was me and I'm running for president I would sure as rain be up there adamently denying it saying that it is not true.
2. People can't make up stuff like this and not expect to be sued. The author of the book could be forced to reveal the sources and then if it came up that it was false the reporter (author) would be in deep doodoo.
3. We know what McCains history is like. It's a well known fact that he is a hot head. He slams his fist on desks, lunges at people as though he's ready to "duke it out". He's just a mean and nasty person all around.
In all truthfulness if someone came out and said Obama said that, I would most likely not believe it because of the kind of person Obama is. If you said he did this or that tied to black militant groups or stuff like that I would believe it, but not with saying something like that about his wife.
Lastly, if I was in the senate and I heard McCain say that or if I heard the way Clinton talked to her secret service I would never pubicly come out and say it because they are know for "pay back" and I would not want to be on their wrong side.
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