I agree, all are entitled to handle grief in their own way.
Posted By: Zauber on 2005-08-13
In Reply to: There are many families of the fallen who praise Bush and I'm not outraged. sm - Democrat
It does seem that the grieving parent who chooses not to let his loss become a big public issue deserves just as much tolerance and respect as one who does. I don't think smearing or degrading any parent who's had such a loss is appropriate. We've heard for years now from families who have had losses and still support Bush and support the current war, and to my knowledge no one on the left has made a huge effort to discredit their motives or drag them through the mud or call their behavior "politically motivated." That just wouldn't be respectful and I know I would be against any such effort.
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And you're entitled to yours as well.
On 9/11/2001 and shortly thereafter, Bush, for whom I have never voted, became my hero. I was very proud he was my President when he stood in that rubble and vowed that "the people who knocked down these buildings are going to hear from all of us." I fully supported our invasion of Afghanistan.
While he was still flying high on his approval ratings, he told us we needed to get rid of Saddam Hussein because he represented an imminent threat to us. I (along with most members of Congress) believed him because the whole country still believed IN him after 9/11.
It’s been well documented that it was all a lie. ALL OF IT. He not only jeopardized the lives of our CHILDREN by sending them to die in a bogus war, he did it on the blood of all the 9/11 victims and their families. He didn’t give our soldiers adequate equipment, including body armor. THEY WERE FORCED TO DIG THROUGH LANDFILLS TO FIND ARMOR TO PROTECT THEMSELVES BECAUSE THIS PRESIDENT DIDN’T CARE ENOUGH ABOUT THEM TO PROVIDE IT FOR THEM!!!!!! Instead, he made sure he included "comprehensive health benefits for all Iraqi citizens" in his war budget.
He and all his cronies promised this war would be quick. That isn’t the truth.
He has personally turned Iraq into the best training ground that al Qaeda could ever hope to have.
His arrogance is only exceeded by his STUPIDITY. When I hear him speak with foreign leaders, I’m truly amazed that these are people who often can speak multiple languages, when our President can’t even get the hang of ONE language, and that stupid SMIRK he's always wearing as he mangles the English language does nothing but embarrass me.
The irony is that he allegedly wants to spread "freedom all over the world" (because GOD personally told him to), yet slowly but surely he’s reducing personal freedoms for citizens in his own country. Try getting into an "open" town hall meeting with George Bush if you dare to disagree with even ONE of his views. Ain’t gonna happen. He will only accept those who blindly follow him like sheep, aggressively defend every single stupid thing he does, show unfaltering reverence to him, and NEVER question the wisdom of his actions.
And WOULD I believe Bush if he came on TV and said we were being attacked? NO FRIGGING WAY. Not unless I saw video of it and it was corroborated by as many MEDIA people as possible. (I can't even begin to described how personally depressing it is to realize that I believe in the MEDIA infinitely more than I do this President, which is a very strong sign that something is seriously wrong in this country.) This President lied about Iraq. I would find it very hard to believe ANYTHING he ever said again. Trust is a very important thing and can’t just be given nilly willy. If someone twists facts to fit in with what they are trying to sell, that is a LIE. And once a person like that shows his or her true colors, I will never believe such a person again. Like Bush TRIED to say (before mangling it): Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. To me, a person who must resort to distorting facts for their own gain shows a very serious character flaw. I choose to stay away from such people because they don’t have an ounce of credibility.
And you’re right. This war is NOT another Vietnam. It’s much, much worse. During Vietnam, our government at least respected the lives of our soldiers enough to provide them with adequate protection. But it’s by no stretch of the imagination going to be "quick," as was promised. It's is going to be as long and drawn out as Vietnam, if not more so. And God forbid if we should truly NEED our troops to do what their supposed to be doing, which is DEFENDING us from an attack someday. There won’t be any. They’ve been spread very thinly all over the world. And recruitment quotas aren’t being met because young people don’t want any part of this administration because they simply don't trust it or believe it. Our young people are quite intelligent.
As far as knowing about true hardship, this generation isn’t SUPPOSED to know anything about it. Our parents and grandparents worked very hard to make sure their children would have a better life. Things WERE getting better before this President came into office. He inherited a surplus, squandered it, and then went on to create the largeset deficit in American history. However, when (not if) we’re attacked again, we’re going to learn plenty about it, because we have a President who hasn’t cared enough to take adequate precautions in his own country to protect his own people. He hasn’t put suggested precautions in place, such as protecting our nuclear/chemical plants. He hasn’t bothered to secure our borders. For crying out loud, some DRUNK guy wandered into an airport the other day and took a PLANE OUT ON A JOY RIDE. How secure is THAT? If there is hardship to be experienced by us, the blood will be on his hands.
And once again, as far as using the word "lie," it’s the simplest, shortest, most accurate word for something that is a blatant, purposeful UNTRUTH told with the intent to mislead. It IS the appropriate word to use.
And you are entitled to that....although...
I don't think being chosen to be on the ticket for the second-highest job in the land is exploitation. I certainly don't think she feels like she is being exploited. To each his own...we can all have our opinions. :) I don't really understand, from a purely objective standpoint, someone could object to her. Obama - limited experience. Palin - Limited experience. Obama - 1st chair. Palin - 2nd chair. Obama - beautiful wife and family. Palin - handsome husband, beautiful family. Obama - wants change in Washington. Palin - wants change in Washington and has a history of doing just that. There are other similarities. Wondering why the positives for him are negatives for her?
Well you're entitled to that...sm
And I am a liberal for ya!! A somewhat conservative liberal, how about adding that to your title bank.
Let's rewind. I said I was awkwardly uncomfortable at listening to some of his jokes. It was *in your face* comedy though the most of it is how a lot of us feel. I don't apologize for saying this guy is funny, he is. And, though the most of the jokes were about Bush, Rummy, Cheney and crew he did aim jokes at liberals too.
No one said you were not entitled to an opinion.
Why is it that when challenged to step back, these kind of statements always come up? In fact, you have not addressed one single item in my post. You say you do not hate Bush but then proceed to itemise another litany of complaints. And still not a word about terrorism! This truly does boggle the mind.
Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, but
I hardly think it holds a candle to the awful Hilary comment - that was just in plain bad taste and I couldn't believe she even would go there.
I am simply stating what I caught with my eye and see that others out there have seen it too - it's just weird. Let's leave it at that.
You are entitled to your opinion, but...
please remember that not everyone believes in God. Your statement is your merely an opinion, not fact. Personally, religious fanatics scare me, especially ones like Sarah Palin who could possibly be placed in a position of power.
And I never said you weren't entitled!
Give me a break! You have religious freedom. I never said you didn't!
Each person is entitled to their own
opinion whether it is for or against abortion. I think your reply was uncalled for and rather childish. You can disagree with someone's opinion without being like this.
That is your choice and you are entitled to it.
I just think that you need to open your heart a little and learn to be a tad more tolerant. I don't want to see gay people making out in public but I don't like seeing straight people do that either. There is a time and place for that....not out in public for all to have to watch. Love the person, hate the sin. You seem to hate the person who sins because of the sin. Is that not too a sin?
You're entitled to your point of view
but not everybody thinks he has lied. Just because people say he has lied does not make it true. There has been nothing substantial to support that he lied. I just wish people would just quit throwing the word lie around so freely, because they are jumping to conclusions with no substantiation.
What scares me is I wonder how many people could withstand a real threat to this country. We are so un-unified if it came across the television that we were being attacked....I'm not sure some of you would believe it....you'd just say, "another Bush lie..."
Our generation knows nothing of true hardship. The Iraq war is not a quagmire...it's not another Vietnam...it's not anything like the dems are whining about it being....
You're entitled to your opinion.
No matter how skewed it is. 
*Entitled to your opinion but escorted
So your saying Ann's not entitled to her free speech
but you are entitled to yours? The 9/11 widows can say anything, but Ann better shut up?
The double standards rule the day here.
Ann has her opinions but at least she is not saying America is guilty of genocide.
Bedtime story entitled
"Ours is a promise that says government cannot solve all our problems, but what it should do is that which we cannot do for ourselves – protect us from harm…" ". We are more compassionate than a government that…sits on its hands while a major American city drowns before our eyes." Barack Obama, nomination acceptance speech, 08/28/2008.
This is written in response to the post below that express the "bootstrap mentality" approach to Katrina and Bush/federal government response. Bush never seems to be held accountable for any of his actions or lack thereof. What I do know is that we deserve better from our so-called leaders. I want someone in charge of the country who knows that what I am about to describe is unacceptable. I am writing this because, at the very least, we should not allow our memories to fade away too quickly about the most shameful episode of leadership/federal agency failure and breakdown in recent memory.
As for the poster who said that "if you don't live here, you don't know what you are talking about": Thing is that I do live in hurricane country on the Gulf Coast where to this day, 3 years later, we still welcome, house, employ, include, encourage and support Hurricane Katrina survivors/refugees. Hurricane Gustav is poised to make a visit here on the opening night of the RNC and will be slamming ashore and doing its thing during the opening speech by you-know-who. My memory of the last time we went through this is very clear. Where it seemed fuzzy, research filled in the blanks. I'm going to jump right in here.
When Hurricane Katrina made landfall, President Bush was on one of his marathon vacations. The August 2005 vacation, in fact, was the longest vacation of any US President (5 weeks). By the time Katrina showed up, he already had been at the ranch for 3 weeks, so he was pretty well rested up. On August 26th, Katrina strengthened to a Category 3 Hurricane and Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco declared state of emergency. Blanco asked President Bush to declare federal state of emergency for Louisiana. Next day, Bush interrupted his bike ride with Astronaut Lance Armstrong and declared a state of emergency in selected regions of Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi on Saturday, the 27th. The declaration did not include any of Louisiana's coastal parishes, an oversight that would later be addressed in Congressional hearings. Same day, New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin ordered a voluntary evacuation of all residents from the city of New Orleans.
Go here to see a map of parishes not included in the declaration. http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/637/1/. This map is an eye-opener. Mr. Harris calls it upsidedownland. Hello. Inland parishes included, coastal parishes excluded. Bushes parents live in the hurricane-prone city of Houston. He probably should have know better.
August 28th, within 9 short hours, Katrina doubled in size and strengthened from a category 3 to a 5. Nagin's evacuation became mandatory. During video conferences involving the president on August 28th and 29th, the NHC director informed Bush that Katrina might push its storm surge over the city's levees and flood walls, using such language "potential for nightmare scenarios," and that this has been known for at least the three decades he has worked at the NHC. Previous warnings, such as the one made by the Houston Chronicle in 2001, told of a disaster that "would strand 250,000 people or more, and probably kill one of 10 left behind as the city drowned under 20 feet of water" following a severe hurricane making landfall on NO. Other publications, such as Popular Mechanics, Scientific American, and The Times-Picayune had given similar doomsday scenarios in which a sinking city would drown and its residents would be left homeless.
On August 28th, the National Weather Sevice out of Baton Rogue and NO issued the following bulletin. This text is included in its entirety because the warning Bush decided to ignore just don't get any more clear than this. Before reading this, keep in mind that in response, Bush alerted FEMA Director Michael Brown, aka "Brownie," and stayed put, on vacation, since he had "done his part." No shouts in tended. This is the way cut and paste works. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Weather_Service_bulletin_for_New_Orleans_region
...DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED...
HURRICANE KATRINA...A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED
STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969.
MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT
LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL
FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY
DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.
THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.
PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD
FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE
BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME
WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.
HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A
FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.
AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH
AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY
VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE
ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE
WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.
POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN
AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.
THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY
THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW
CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE
KILLED.
On August 29th, John McCain's 69th birthday, Katrina hits New Orleans as a category 4, levies break, Bush continues his itinerary. He jets on off to Luke Air Force Base near Phoenix to join McCain and wish him happy birthday (kinda makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside). Picture available on the website cited below. Afterward, Bush spoke about Medicare to 400 guests at the Pueblo El Mirage RV Resort and Country Club in nearby El Mirage. Not to worry. Brownie's doin' a heck of a job. August 29th: FEMA press release: 'First Responders Urged Not To Respond To Hurricane Impact Areas Unless Dispatched By State, Local Authorities.'
Five hours after the hurricane hit, FEMA chief Michael Brown asks Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff for approval to send 1,000 Homeland Security workers within 48 hours to the Gulf Coast to provide assistance. Bush fires up the jet and heads out to Rancho Cucamonga, Calif. for talk on prescription drugs for seniors. Back in NO, the 17th Street Canal levee breaks. The Red Cross, while providing relief and support across the Gulf Coast, did not enter New Orleans to provide relief at the Superdome, or any other victim shelter in the city.
August 30th. The Coast Guard reports that it has rescued some 1,200 people from rooftops around the area. Of course, it's all over the TV. The number of evacuees in the Superdome swells to 20,000, as people rescued or left homeless throughout the city are brought to the stadium. Gov. Blanco says the Superdome will have to be evacuated. Bush appears in Coronado, Calif. for a V-J Day commemoration. Go to the website cited below for photo corresponding to the following caption: President Bush plays a guitar presented to him by Country Singer Mark Wills, right, backstage following his visit…" The photo is very telling. For those of you who don't go ballistic when they read democratic commentary, you will find some fascinating information next to the photo.
August 31st. Evacuation of the Superdome begins. Bush cuts vacation short by 2 days and returns to Washington after a brief fly-by over New Orleans where he observed the scene from above.
September 1st: Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff claims "we have a tremendous array of forces that are currently deployed in New Orleans," as cable TV networks show live images of looting, Superdome residents awaiting evacuation and people stranded without food and water throughout the city. Bush tells "Good Morning America" that "I don’t think anyone anticipated a breach of the levees." That day, Newsweek reported, "The reality, say several aides who did not wish to be quoted because it might displease the president, did not really sink in until Thursday night. Some White House staffers were watching the evening news and thought the president needed to see the horrific reports coming out of New Orleans. Counselor Bartlett made up a DVD of the newscasts so Bush could see them in their entirety as he flew down to the Gulf Coast the next morning on Air Force One. "
September 2nd: President Bush takes aerial tour of New Orleans. Relief copters grounded in New Orleans during Bush visit.
September 3rd: Construction equipment removed from broken levee after Bush visit. Louisiana Senator Landrieu Implores President to "relieve unmitigated suffering" and end FEMA's "abject failures"
September 4th: More than 4,600 active duty military personnel join almost 27,000 National Guard troops in Louisiana for disaster relief. Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard lambastes FEMA's response on NBC's "Meet the Press"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina
In a September 26, 2005 hearing, former FEMA chief Michael Brown testified before a U.S. House subcommittee about FEMA's response. He was questioned about why Bush's declaration of state of emergency of August 27 had not included the coastal parishes of Orleans, Jefferson, and Plaquemines (in fact, the declaration did not include any of Louisiana's coastal parishes, whereas the coastal counties were included in the declarations for Mississippi and Alabama). Brown testified that this was because Louisiana Governor Blanco had not included those parishes in her initial request for aid (can you say pass-the-buck/fib?), a decision that he found "shocking." After the hearing, though, Blanco released a copy of her letter, which requested assistance for "all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor.
A couple of cliches thrown in for good measure: A picture's worth 1000 words. Actions speak louder than words.
Go here for a Katrina Timeline. August 25 to September 5. The links embedded in this timeline make for a good read as well.
http://www.ojr.org/ojr/wiki/Katrina_Timeline/
Go here for a corresponding timeline of Bush's vacation and a few photos. http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/010936.php
So be it. We have differing opinions, both of us are entitled....
No matter who gets elected, I hope things get better for you. Sincerely.
Hey MT why are you using a different handle?
Wished you dead? By your posts, I realize now who you really are, MT. You read into things that arent there and the one other person who has done that consistently is MT. So, welcome back MT. Wish you dead? Oh please, I couldnt care less about you and I most certainly would not put negative energy on myself wishing anyone dead, MT. Now hurry up run back to your conservative board, MT, as it is time to bash liberals once again.
can't handle it?
Wow... I mean I haven't been here that long, but from what I've seen she only responds to what is talked about, i have seen no "attacks" by Sam, I can only assume you are referring to her disagreements with you, and can only look at this post as a desperate call for help cause you can't debate her points. That is what this board is for right? I mean, that is what a debate is, back and forth right? To call Sam out is interesting considering I've never seen personal attacks from her (i haven't read all her posts though) but I have seen plenty of crap come out of the liberals' mouths (keyboard) on this board... why dont you email her yourself and have it out rather than seriously asking the moderate to give her her own space. Last time I checked, we live in America and there is free speech. If you dont like what she has to say, IGNORE IT! (i do it all the time with some of the nonsense put out!)
You can't handle someone
opposing your opinion with facts? Yeah....I could see where that would annoy you. Sheesh. This whining about sam is ridiculous. Sam writes very well and more often than not has facts to back up her opinion. That is a heck of a lot more than I can say for some other people on this board. So grow up, stop whining to the moderator, and either ignore her posts or show some facts to back up your opinion like she does.
How to handle it
Hi,
I tend to vote conservative, but most of my friends are diehard Democrats. You just have to learn to agree to disagree. We all love each other, we just have different views.
I would like to say one thing, though, because not a lot of people know this. Back when Kerry was running, he was vocal about not sending our jobs overseas; however, behind the scenes, his biggest contributor, George Soros, actually bought two MT companies, which I won't name here, and those companies shipped half of their jobs to India. So don't let the Dems tell you that the Repubs are sending all the jobs offshore, because it is absolutely NOT SO.
Back to the point, though..you just have to learn to separate politics from friendship. You can have friendly debates, and if your friends get ugly, just explain to them we can debate this, but we need to agree to disagree for the sake of our friendship. If they are your true friends, they will agree.
i bet she will handle it
have ;)
Maybe she can't handle it when someone
points out her mistakes.
Will somebody else handle this one?
I'm just too tired to take it on, and it needs to be.
LOL. I'm sure they can't handle the video anyway.sm
The link works only for those who have the ability to think on their own.
I only post under one handle....
unlike others, that was put to rest last night. Let's just let that die, shall we? Apparently the moderator agrees.
She will handle herself just fine....
better than O, at the very least as well. And she is the #2 person...not the #1. We elect him, we get him day 1, and all the experience (limited though it is) is #2 on your ticket.
Ok, how do you think the administration will handle this
I knew it was a mistake to pick Clinton for SOS. The person who said she had no problems obliterating Iran if they didn't do what she wants (or something like that). How do you think the current administration to include Hillary will handle this one.
http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed2/idUSTRE50E3QB20090115
Ok, how do you think the administration will handle this
I knew it was a mistake to pick Clinton for SOS. The person who said she had no problems obliterating Iran if they didn't do what she wants (or something like that). How do you think the current administration to include Hillary will handle this one.
http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed2/idUSTRE50E3QB20090115
I will be happy to handle this...
The original poster makes a lot of valid points and should be commended for an intelligent, thoughtful post. What a breath of fresh air it would be if more people on this forum were as perceptive as the original poster.
I think he would handle it just fine...(sm)
However, I don't believe a man should be measured solely based on his ability to fight. I'll take brains over brawn any day.
Trying to get a handle (no pun intended)
on all this. The acts committed by gay couples are 'abnormal'. If those aame acts are committed by a heterosexual couple, do they become 'normal'? I mean, they don't led directly to procreation, so what's permissible? Really need to know how to plan my evening.
Bedtime story from Hurricane country entitled
"Ours is a promise that says government cannot solve all our problems, but what it should do is that which we cannot do for ourselves – protect us from harm…" ". We are more compassionate than a government that…sits on its hands while a major American city drowns before our eyes." Barack Obama, nomination acceptance speech, 08/28/2008.
This is written in response to the post below that express the "bootstrap mentality" approach to Katrina and Bush/federal government response. Bush never seems to be held accountable for any of his actions or lack thereof. What I do know is that we deserve better from our so-called leaders. I want someone in charge of the country who knows that what I am about to describe is unacceptable. I am writing this because, at the very least, we should not allow our memories to fade away too quickly about the most shameful episode of leadership/federal agency failure and breakdown I have ever witnessed in my lifetime.
As for the poster who said that "if you don't live here, you don't know what you are talking about": Thing is that I do live in hurricane country on the Gulf Coast where to this day, 3 years later, we still welcome, house, employ, include, encourage and support Hurricane Katrina survivors/refugees. Hurricane Gustav is poised to make a visit here on the opening night of the RNC and will be slamming ashore and doing its thing during the opening speech by you-know-who. My memory of the last time we went through this is very clear. Where it seemed fuzzy, research filled in the blanks. I'm going to jump right in here.
When Hurricane Katrina made landfall, President Bush was on one of his marathon vacations. The August 2005 vacation, in fact, was the longest vacation of any US President (5 weeks). By the time Katrina showed up, he already had been at the ranch for 3 weeks, so he was pretty well rested up. On August 26th, Katrina strengthened to a Category 3 Hurricane and Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco declared state of emergency. Blanco asked President Bush to declare federal state of emergency for Louisiana. Next day, Bush interrupted his bike ride with Astronaut Lance Armstrong and declared a state of emergency in selected regions of Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi on Saturday, the 27th. The declaration did not include any of Louisiana's coastal parishes, an oversight that would later be addressed in Congressional hearings. Same day, New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin orders a voluntary evacuation of all residents from the city of New Orleans.
Go here to see a map of parishes not included in the declaration. http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/637/1/. This map is an eye-opener. Mr. Harris calls it upsidedownland. Hello. Inland parishes included, coastal parishes excluded. Bushes parents live in the hurricane-prone city of Houston. He probably should have know better.
August 28th, within 9 short hours, Katrina doubled in size and strengthened from a category 3 to a 5. Nagin's evacuation became mandatory. During video conferences involving the president on August 28th and 29th, the NHC director informed Bush that Katrina might push its storm surge over the city's levees and flood walls, using such language "potential for nightmare scenarios," and that this has been known for at least the three decades he has worked at the NHC. Previous warnings, such as the one made by the Houston Chronicle in 2001, told of a disaster that "would strand 250,000 people or more, and probably kill one of 10 left behind as the city drowned under 20 feet of water" following a severe hurricane making landfall on NO. Other publications, such as Popular Mechanics, Scientific American, and The Times-Picayune had given similar doomsday scenarios in which a sinking city would drown and its residents would be left homeless.
On August 28th, the National Weather Sevice out of Baton Rogue and NO issued the following bulletin. This text is included in its entirety because the warning Bush decided to ignore just don't get any more clear than this. Before reading this, keep in mind that in response, Bush alerted FEMA Director Michael Brown, aka "Brownie," and stayed put, on vacation, since he had "done his part." No shouts in tended. This is the way cut and paste works. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Weather_Service_bulletin_for_New_Orleans_region ...DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED... HURRICANE KATRINA...A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969. MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY DAMAGED OR DESTROYED. THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL. PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME WALL AND ROOF FAILURE. HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT. AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK. POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS. THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE KILLED.
On August 29th, John McCain's 69th birthday, Katrina hits New Orleans as a category 4, levies break, Bush continues his itinerary. He jets on off to Luke Air Force Base near Phoenix to join McCain and wish him happy birthday (kinda makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside). Picture available on the website cited below. Afterward, Bush spoke about Medicare to 400 guests at the Pueblo El Mirage RV Resort and Country Club in nearby El Mirage. Not to worry. Brownie's doin' a heck of a job. August 29th: FEMA press release: 'First Responders Urged Not To Respond To Hurricane Impact Areas Unless Dispatched By State, Local Authorities.'
Five hours after the hurricane hit, FEMA chief Michael Brown asks Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff for approval to send 1,000 Homeland Security workers within 48 hours to the Gulf Coast to provide assistance. Bush fires up the jet and heads out to Rancho Cucamonga, Calif. for talk on prescription drugs for seniors. Back in NO, the 17th Street Canal levee breaks. The Red Cross, while providing relief and support across the Gulf Coast, did not enter New Orleans to provide relief at the Superdome, or any other victim shelter in the city.
August 30th. The Coast Guard reports that it has rescued some 1,200 people from rooftops around the area. Of course, it's all over the TV. The number of evacuees in the Superdome swells to 20,000, as people rescued or left homeless throughout the city are brought to the stadium. Gov. Blanco says the Superdome will have to be evacuated. Bush appears in Coronado, Calif. for a V-J Day commemoration. Go to the website cited below for photo corresponding to the following caption: President Bush plays a guitar presented to him by Country Singer Mark Wills, right, backstage following his visit…" The photo is very telling. For those of you who don't go ballistic when they read democratic commentary, you will find some fascinating information next to the photo.
August 31st. Evacuation of the Superdome begins. Bush cuts vacation short by 2 days and returns to Washington after a brief fly-by over New Orleans where he observed the scene from above.
September 1st: Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff claims "we have a tremendous array of forces that are currently deployed in New Orleans," as cable TV networks show live images of looting, Superdome residents awaiting evacuation and people stranded without food and water throughout the city. Bush tells "Good Morning America" that "I don’t think anyone anticipated a breach of the levees." That day, Newsweek reported, "The reality, say several aides who did not wish to be quoted because it might displease the president, did not really sink in until Thursday night. Some White House staffers were watching the evening news and thought the president needed to see the horrific reports coming out of New Orleans. Counselor Bartlett made up a DVD of the newscasts so Bush could see them in their entirety as he flew down to the Gulf Coast the next morning on Air Force One. "
September 2nd: President Bush takes aerial tour of New Orleans. Relief copters grounded in New Orleans during Bush visit.
September 3rd: Construction equipment removed from broken levee after Bush visit. Louisiana Senator Landrieu Implores President to "relieve unmitigated suffering" and end FEMA's "abject failures"
September 4th: More than 4,600 active duty military personnel join almost 27,000 National Guard troops in Louisiana for disaster relief. Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard lambastes FEMA's response on NBC's "Meet the Press"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina
In a September 26, 2005 hearing, former FEMA chief Michael Brown testified before a U.S. House subcommittee about FEMA's response. He was questioned about why Bush's declaration of state of emergency of August 27 had not included the coastal parishes of Orleans, Jefferson, and Plaquemines (in fact, the declaration did not include any of Louisiana's coastal parishes, whereas the coastal counties were included in the declarations for Mississippi and Alabama). Brown testified that this was because Louisiana Governor Blanco had not included those parishes in her initial request for aid (can you say pass-the-buck/fib?), a decision that he found "shocking." After the hearing, though, Blanco released a copy of her letter, which requested assistance for "all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor.
A couple of cliches thrown in for good measure: A picture's worth 1000 words. Actions speak louder than words.
Go here for a Katrina Timeline. August 25 to September 5. The links embedded in this timeline make for a good read as well.
http://www.ojr.org/ojr/wiki/Katrina_Timeline/
Go here for a corresponding timeline of Bush's vacation and a few photos. http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/010936.php
Wow, I guess repubs really can't handle a little
You would prefer the rovian style of of GWB & DC dishonest fearmongering to fact? O is not offering up some mushroom cloud ultimatum of do it his way or face doom. He is simply proffering that things are probably going to get worse before they get better, which is also what any reputable economist is saying. There is no quick fix for what we have allowed to happen to our country.
Gee that's funny READER, cuz I never saw your handle on here until the last few days. sm
So who are you Really? Why, I think you are a liar!
Guess we all handle things differently
If I were you I'd just let it go. Not worth the frustration.
Anyway...it's a beautiful weekend here (well if you call 50 degs and rainy beautiful), but it's the weekend and I'm going to enjoy it. Going to make myself a cup of hot cocoa and get warmed up. Hope you have a good weekend.
Yeah, and you cant handle hearing the truth.
nm
For those whose brains can only handle sound byte mentality
For the rest of us, we need a little substance and certainly cannot take wild accusations with no verifiable or credible source in sight and pointless juvenile name calling too seriously on any level whatsoever.
And yes, Lynn is my name, not a handle; geesh I guess another conspiracy in the making. nm
nm
Who would be silly enough to consult with him on how to handle a disaster? Nevermind, forget I asked
Grief?
I have been mourning my country for the last 8 years - so, welcome to my world. You have no idea why ANYONE voted for Obama unless they told you personally. So don't assume anything. There are many reasons why people voted the way they did and your crystal ball might not be completely accurate.
Oh good grief. nm
Oh good grief. SM
I also taught English as a second language in Greece and served with the Peace Corps and if you had been paying any attention at all, you would know that, but instead you are stuck on something I said that any military family would understand, but is stuck in your craw and you can't seem to hack it out. Get over it. I am talking about the PEACE CORPS this time. Got it?
Good grief.
Good grief to you too
Good grief to you too..The liberals see what is going on..the neocons have their heads in the sand. PERIOD.
Good grief. sm
Well, it's not every day one gets to see a supposedly grown person just implode all over the place. Class obviously did not visit your gene pool. RR is right. This place needs an exorcism.
Good grief....
Wouldn't you say the mindset of the young depends on the conditions and need for the war?
I was talking about a mindset in general, Teddy. You do not read my posts. You pick a part that irritates you out of context and do not read the whole thing. The mindset in the 40s was one of patriotism and fighting for your country, for freedom, for good if you will. They also had a sense of honor and a sense of duty, and I am not sure you feel either. However, I am sure that in every conflict there are those who do not agree completely with the reason they are sent. But they go. Because that is what they signed up to do. Because that is what you do....your duty. Because you are honorable. But since you cannot or will not grasp that, talking to you is useless. That was somehow lost from the 40s to the 60s, and THAT is what I was talking about. You just read it the way you wanted to read it. SO be it. I was not condemning anyone. They were the product of their generation and of liberal indoctrination in public schools. That is an opinion, not a condemnation. I already said in another post that I did not blame draft dodgers for dodging or running to Canada. That is hardly condemnation.
That is what I was alluding to.
Pardon me if I cannot always figure out what you are *alluding* to.
In condemning this generation with their lack of morals you are also condemning soldiers in Iraq, I assume? My belief is that if this country ever found itself in a dire situation that our young people would respond as needed. Call me an optimist. I cannot condemn a whole generation based on my version of what is moral and what isn't.
Again with the condemnation. I did not condemn anyone. Again with the inflammatory rhetoric. I for one wish you would give the rhetoric a rest and just make your point.
As to the young people rising to the occasion....what in the world makes you think that those protestors in Washington would pick up throw down that sign and pick up a gun if we were attacked? We WERE attacked. On 9-11. And how cavalier you are to just totally discount that and relegate those 3000 people to an oops. The fact that did not start a deep anger at someone who would do that deep in your belly...well....I will not even go there.
I would say sending soldiers to die in an unnecessary war is immoral.
I would agree with you if I thought this war immoral. I do not. I thought it immoral to kill 3000 people in one day. I find it immoral that you DO NOT find it immoral that 3000 people were killed in one day. That you can discard that little fact and those people like yesterday's news. LIke it never happened. Or to suggest that it was an *inside job.* I find that not only immoral, I find it, to use your words, *sick* and repugnant.
Lack of care for our country's poor and sick is immoral.
Lack of care of our country's poor? We have more social programs for the poor than any other nation on earth. Not only do we take care of our own poor, we try to take care of the poor in all over the world as well. I hardly call that immoral. If you think more needs to be done, take some homeless into your house. Open a soup kitchen. Hand out birth control to the third generation welfare families. Give a job, not just a check. Lobby for THAT in Washington. Carry signs for THAT.
Little kids starving in our country is immoral.
Again, Teddy, there are programs out the kazoo to feed kids. It is not my fault that food stamps are used to buy things other than food to feed the kids. You should lobby to stop the graft in the programs that exist instead of complaining that there are not enough programs. But that would actually mean getting involved, wouldn't it?.
Our treatment of minorities and your condemntation of all liberals is immoral.
Again with the condemnation. Giving an opinion is not a condemnation. And the incessant all liberals... Please. It is easy to group together, as I said, because you all sing the same song. And having an opinion is not condeming anyone. Belitting, bashing, holier-than-thou attitude IS condemning. And you do it constantly.
I believe that not only is abortion immoral, but many other things, too.
You may also blindly support our military, no matter what it is sent to do. I don't. I'm not a fool. I will not comment on that, lest I be banned.
I would not have supported our military slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Native Americans in the 1800s, or supporting the slavery trade indirectly. I would have applauded and supported any soldier who went AWOL, any demonstration against this military action. Unlike you.
What does this conversation have to do with military slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Native Americans? And to intimate that I would support that....I am of Native American ancestry and I do not feel I have been mistreated. I cannot change the past, but I can certainly try to learn from it. You seem incapable of doing that, and that makes sense, when it has been rewritten in the schools and...enough of that. I am talking to the wall.
As to supporting the slave trade indirectly.....do not know what you mean, but the Democrats supported the slave trade directly and vigorously. And it took the Republicans from the Civil War until the Civil Rights Act LBJ finally signed to make that right, despite strong Democrat resistance. There is one for you to be proud of.
Yes, you are correct. I would not be proud of a soldier who went AWOL. However, I would not condemn him either. I have said so on this board before, you just did not read or refuse to remember it. All I said on this board regarding THIS war and THESE troops was, this is a war that our Congress authorized, that our President sent troops to fight, and we owe those troops our support. They are there out of honor and duty. If you have a problem with the decisions made that put them there, go ahead and castigate Bush, but castigate the Congress too, because it is as much their fault as the President's that soldiers are in Iraq. DO NOT castigate the mission, because when you do, you are castigating the soldiers. I did not agree with the dodgers and the runners in the 60's either. But I did not then, nor now, condemn them as you so eloquently keep putting it.
But you see, I have common sense.
Well, I beg to differ. To me you have zero common sense. So it is a matter of opinion, again.
I cannot argue or debate with someone who doesn't have it.
My thoughts exactly.
You have a blinding anger toward Democrats and liberals.
You keep saying that. I have no blinding anger toward anyone. Your anger at me blinds YOU, and you go off on a rant at everything I post. If I was standing in front of you, you would probably slug me.
You have no use for the truth.
The truth....now there is a relative term in your world.
I am sure this is not the first time you have been told this. Ummm. Nope, you have lectured me before and probably will again. But you are the only one who seems to think I am a demon from the nether world.
The rest of your post is so twisted and lacking common sense, even to insulting a person for reading books (heavens, we wouldn't want to educate ourselves -- another fear of the conservative posters) that it isn't worth my time to answer.
I did not insult you for reading books. All I asked is did you have an opinion that was your own. You answered my question...a big resounding NO.
Please read Lurker's post. You will deny it's accuracy, I'm sure. I read Lurker's post and responded. You should quit invoking Lurker, though....you two are nowhere near in the same league. Not even close.
As far as Ann Coulter, someone posted that the liberals had written and said terrible things also. Indeed they have. But Ann's article was posted on the conservative board as a fine and shining example of conservative wit and intelligence. In reality, it was one of the smuttiest and sickening things I have read in a long time.
You posted a couple of pretty smutty remarks yourself, Teddy. You are attacking me like I am your mortal enemy instead of another American just posting my opinions. Which I have the right to have, if you remember. As I have said on numerous occasions, I do not always agree with the way Ann Coulter says things. But she is no more virulent than you have been, and would be, if you were not constrained by the moderator.
I don't recall any liberal posters crowing over such liberal trash on this board. They seem to be a pretty moral group over all, and a group that's got a lot of common sense, most of all.
Well, you have a short memory. Before they were moderated, there was a lot of trash, hateful, nasty, smutty you name it posted over there and there was a lot of crowing....until the board monitor said that kind of thing would no longer be tolerated. But, IN MY OPINION, that is another thing that many leftists/liberals/Democrats/whatever they are calling themselves this week who post here have in common....selective memory.
Oh, good grief. sm
Some anonymous person writes an article and you believe every word of it. Come on. Clinton has made some perceived racial comments lately. Let it go.
Good grief. nm
Good grief. nm
oh good grief
Now we're gettin' the bloody biographies of the guy and girl who don't even belong the designated group for this board. I beat my breast and cry with horror, "will this too-much-information never end?"
Oh good grief....
the mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, a black man, caused more problems for New Orleanians pre-Katrina and after Katrina than George Bush EVER did. George Bush appointed a black woman secretary of state. No racist would EVER do that. Geeezzzz. lol.
Good grief....
Wow. After a title of cease fire, all that lecturing and this:
"If you could stop slaying the messenger long enough to hear the message, you would understand that there is nothing condescending about wanting to engage in informed debate that orients itself around reaching mutual respect and understanding. It has absolutely nothing to do with being angry or feeling superior."
Okay...I guess the time you were angry and feeling superior is when you told me you had to get down in the dirt to my level...? Does this approach to the olive branch work for you often...? ;)
Sorry, trotter, hard to buy the olive branch at the end after the lecture in the preceding paragraphs. I might buy the thing about affinity for words and vocabulary if they were not structured specifically to belittle your "opponent." Maybe you don't really realize how condescending it sounds and are sincere in your protests. Maybe you do and you don't care. I really don't know which at this point.
Don't know that meeting at the water cooler about any subject will work very well for us...lol. Because I will be woman enough to admit it even if you aren't...you do push my buttons. I don't normally do 5-paragraph volleys with anyone. But if there is anything that pushes my buttons it is that condescending attitude and talking down to people, and regardless of what you say, whether you mean it to be or not, that IS the perception it gives. I suppose you would like for me to believe that every other far left liberal I have heard use the same kind of rhetoric just loves vocabulary and "there is nothing condescending about wanting to engage in informed debate that orients itself around reaching mutual respect and understanding. It has absolutely nothing to do with being angry or feeling superior." Because, frankly, they all sound the same and it appears obvious ot me that they are all very angry and need to feel superior. Not meaning it as a slam...that is the perception. You have yours of me that I think is totally wrong...you think the perception I have of you is totally wrong. Don't think that is going to change. Maybe difference in parents, the way we were raised, the people were were raised around...I come from a rural background and I am proud of it. I have worked the dirt, so you saying you have to get down in the dirt to my level...well, that is more of a compliment than the disparaging and demeaning remark you meant it to be. I am proud of my roots. You do not have to come from a major metropolitan area to be informed. I have learned a great deal about Mexican immigrants from talking with, working with, and going to school with the ones who came across the border and worked hard, took the road to citizenship, and were proud as they could be to hold up their hand and take the oath of citizenship. Those immigrants became immigrants like the rest of us...citizens of the melting pot that is America and what makes her great. They are proud, hard-working people. And they are not hyphenated Americans. They are Americans, period. They don't want to be referred to as hyphenated Americans...and will be the first to tell you so. And they are as vehemently opposed to illegal immigration as I am, because they know what harm it does to their country. So, you will not convince me that we should extend the rights of citizens to illegal immigrants. Especially by talking down to me and slapping me up side the head with your vocabulary.
Also, frankly, don't get your references to the DAR. I am way too much of a "mutt" to get within shouting distance of the DAR. And I don't see "mutt" as a disparagement. I am a mutt. I am a mixture of many nationalities. It makes me who I am, and if that makes me a mutt in the eyes of the DAR, they should just look the other way while they drink their tea. You wanted to lump me in with them and if you think you and I are light years apart, the DAR and I would be even MORE so.
I am not interested in racial purity. I am interested in all of us, every one of us, left, right, up down and sideways; black, red, yellow, green or polka-dotted; Muslim, Christian, Mormon, or three-eyed goat worshippers...I want to see us like the first Americans were and America while I was growing up...that being Americans is what bound us together. Has nothing to do with multiculturalism...it was a feeling of no matter what..rich, poor, uptown, downtown, midtown and boonies...we were all Americans. THAT is what I am talking about. So when the chips are down we can forget petty differences and stand shoulder to shoulder if need be....and in these times, it might just need be.
To put it simply...remember the day after 9-11, when COngress, liberals, republicans, indepdents, stood on those capitol steps and sang God Bless America and MEANT it. That is the America I knew and grew up in. That is the America I learned about in history, that I love. THAT is what I want back. That is what I want us to feel as Americans. That unity. And I don't want a disaster to have to happen to remind us. That is something you feel at gut level. That is what I feel about being an American. America is a melting pot and they called it that for a reason...as I said, immigrants leave their countries for a reason...in days past it was for the dream of America, and becoming an American. I do not know what happened to that...but I mourn its passing.
And if that is wrong...so shoot me. Just leave me down here in the dirt at my level. lol. I am quite content down here.
So, okay trotter, cease fire as you say. As to the next time we meet at the water cooler...let's just cross that bridge when we get to it.
I believe you when you say you enjoy my posts...but the source of that enjoyment leaves some room for speculation. ;)
And, as to the job search...there are good MTSOs out there. I found one on my last job search. Here's hoping you find one on yours.
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