I'll take socialism over abject poverty....

• Let's give it all back to the Republicans.... - sm
  • Look at it this way... - Zville MT
  • Dont worry. When Obama is done, there will be no - more wealthy. Noone to hire others -just socialism
    • I'll take socialism over abject poverty.... - sm
      • Socialism = Abject Poverty - Zville MT
        • Read up on Denmark....... - sm
          • Denmark - Zville MT
  • There needs to be equality and fairness in congress - just my opinion
    • I think you can blame this on the Rovian mindset.... - sm
      • It's gong to take more than a few weeks to undo - Rove's handiwork.
        • Oh my gosh - the Clinton years were the worst - just my opinion
          • Clinton years - GC from NC
            • Oh, please read this, Evil Clinton and WMDs, what?..........sm - Cyndiee
          • Excuse me, but during Clinton administration, we had a balanced budget for the first time in ......s - Cyndiee
            • Yeah, right. Guess you bought into the lie - Hey, I've got a bridge for sale
              • A bridge to Nowhere? Really? for sale? nm - sm
              • Please see enclosed, guess CNN will buy bridge for me, you were so enlightening.......SM - Cyndiee
        • Obama will make sure our children pay for this debt - the rest of their lives.. He is pathetic.nm
          • And what about the debt he inheriteed from George W. Bush, take off the blinders......sm - Cyndiee
            • Cyndiee, you are a very wise woman. - Running on MT
              • TY! But I only post what I deeply feel, jeez, no one is even giving President O a chance, and rewri - Cyndiee

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I am voting for Obama; we need change, but of course the good ole' boys will never let that happen.  It's a shame that greed goes right alongside corrupt. 

Furthermore, just because someone is poor does not make them unintelligent.  There are some people who have just fell on hard times for many different reasons, one being medical problems or a sick child. 

Why doesn't grampa just give it up?  Him and his "hootsy" sidekick whatever her name is from nowhere.  The pubs throw more mud and find ways to look away from today's troubles, it's almost sickening instead of answering direct questions.

I decided to Google this phrase and see what came up.  Not suprising the first on the list was from Rush Limbaugh.   I did find this too though and I couldn't agree more.  I have no idea who wrote it.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Trickle-Up-Poverty-and-the-by-Cameron-Salisbury-080923-947.html

What if you're laid off, maybe your jobs are sent out of the country and you can't find another job.  Would you be too proud to take a handout from the government in the form of unemployment benefits?  Maybe food stamps so you could eat.  Judge not...............

Not everyone is looking to have you and your cohorts fork over part of your paycheck so they don't have to work.  Think overpaid CEOs.  Think companies (also MT companies) who send jobs out of the country so they can bloat their bottom line and put more in THEIR paycheck while taking it out of YOUR paycheck.  Isn't that what's being done already?  Is your MT pay getting better......or worse?

It wasn't long ago that I was told by my conservative mtstars buddies that poverty in American was not as bad as we thought.  To them poverty only meant you didn't have extra spending money and that the impoverished had color TVs, air conditioning, cars, the whole enchilada.  They even went through the spiel of posting articles to support them.  It has always been my opinion that poverty is alive and well in America and Katrina has unfortunately revealed this to us all too tragically. -------------------- Katrina Reveals Poverty Reality

Thursday, September 08, 2005 By Kelley Beaucar Vlahos PHOTOS VIDEO Click image to enlarge STORIES • Was Katrina Looting Justified? • Homeland Security Secretary Explains Katrina's Relief Efforts • Complete Hurricane Katrina Coverage • How to Help Stories of the grinding poverty among the survivors of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans vividly illustrate what many say is a forgotten truth of modern American life — that pockets of desperate poverty still exist in a country of unsurpassed wealth and privilege. Underscoring that reality, a report by the U.S. Census Bureau (search) released the same week Katrina hit the nation's southeast announced that the national poverty rate rose for the fourth straight year despite continuing growth in production and political rhetoric that the nation's economy is on the upswing. Click here to read the U.S. Census Bureau's report. According to that report, the number of Americans living under the poverty line grew by 1.1 million in 2004 for a total of 37 million people nationwide. That equals 12.7 percent of the total U.S. population. It is the fourth annual increase. [Poverty] is a problem in America that hasn't gone away — it just went underground for a while, and it shouldn't have, said Sheila Zedlewski, director of the Urban Institute's Income and Benefits Policy Center. Through images of the predominantly black residents of New Orleans pleading for help, leaving destroyed homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs, America got a wake-up call according to Sheldon Danziger at the National Poverty Center at the University of Michigan. People are putting these things together, and it will be interesting to see if the attention of the public stays on this, he said. As a country we'd like to think we moved beyond it, but in reality, [poverty] is still a substantial problem. Others caution against putting too much weight into the new numbers, pointing out that they do not reflect the public assistance low-income individuals and families receive, like Medicaid (search) and welfare, and do not distinguished between truly impoverished individuals and those who are temporarily poor. The poverty rate began to climb in 2000, the year it hit a 26-year low of 11.3 percent of Americans living under the poverty level, according to U.S Census Bureau figures. That was the lowest point since 1974, when the number was 11.2 percent. The highest point of poverty in recent times was in 1993 at 15.1 percent. Before that, was in 1983, at 15.2 percent. In 2004, according to the latest study, the poverty rate among African Americans remained the same — at 24.7 percent. Hispanics also saw no change in their poverty rate at 21.9, while whites saw an increase, from 8.2 percent to 8.6 percent. Asian Americans experienced the only decrease, from 11.8 percent to 9.8 percent. The poverty rate among American families remained at 10.2 percent of the population in 2004. The Office of Budget and Management (search) defines a family of two adults and two children with a median household income of $19,157 or less as living in poverty; or a family of two with no children, making $12,649 a year. Median household income went unchanged in 2004, according to the census bureau, at $44,389. Blacks continue to have the lowest median income among all ethnic and racial groups, making $30,134 annually. Wages earned among Americans, however, declined in 2004. For men over 15 working full-time, year round, the real median earnings declined 2.3 percent from 2003, to $40,798. For women with similar work experiences, wages declined by 1 percent to $31,223. And while unemployment has gone down from 5.5 percent in August 2004 to 4.9 percent in August this year, unemployment among blacks is still the highest in the country, at 9.6 percent in August compared to 4.2 percent for whites and 5.8 for Hispanics. In New Orleans, where blacks make up 67 percent of the population, 27 percent of the residents are living below poverty level according to a recent study by Total Community Action, Inc. (search), a public advocacy group based in New Orleans. Click here to read that study. But some warn that the new census bureau figures may not be an ideal measure, given that they do not take into account the impact of public assistance on a household, or recent tax cuts and child tax credits. Others say the poverty rate had been in steady decline since the early 1990's and see the recent increases as the tail end of the 2000 recession. It's a bit unfortunate to link the hurricane with the issue of poverty in this country, as though there has been no reduction in poverty since the 1980's, said Rey Hederman, senior policy analyst for the Heritage Foundation. Since a high point in 1983 the poverty rate for the U.S has been on a decline, aside from the four years following the brief recession in 1989 and the most recent hike, according to the Census Bureau. Like other economic analysts, Hederman believes the growth in productivity in the U.S economy will eventually produce more jobs and higher incomes for workers. But so far, Hederman admits, that hasn't happened. We've got strong productive growth but wages have been relatively stagnant. It's a bit of a paradox as to why it hasn't happened sooner, said Phillip Swagel of the American Enterprise Institute, who blames, in part, the Internet bust six years ago. Nonetheless, he calls today's economy the most golden era for productivity growth in more than 50 years. In the short term, it means that firms have been able to produce more without hiring more people, Swagel continued. But in the long term, it will mean that wages and income will go up. It takes time for that relationship to take hold. But on Wednesday, the Congressional Budget Office (search) announced that hurricane's damage to the southeast could reduce national economic growth by nearly a percent at time when forecasters were hoping for a three to four percent increase by the end of the year. It also expects a loss of 400,000 jobs in the labor market. Some say that inner cities that have never fully recovered from past economic recessions will no doubt be the hardest hit. I think for the last 25 years, we have had an economy where most of the gains have been concentrated in a small percentage of the workforce, said Danziger. [The] rising tide has not lifted all boats, the economy has shifted so that a smaller portion of the population gets the increases, and the rest is simply happy to have jobs that experience no wage increase or income increases. According to the recent Total Community Action study, poverty rates have remained stagnant in New Orleans in the last 40 years and even without the near total destruction of the city, have been the highest in the nation. It would be ironic that it would take a disaster like this to focus [national attention] on this, Rep. Mel Watt, R-N.C., and member of the Congressional Black Caucus (search), told FOXNews.com, Every area of our lives these disparities exist and we have tried to focus on them all year. Minority populations left behind in many cities often suffer from bad schools and are at a real disadvantage compared to their suburban middle class and affluent counterparts, say experts. The poverty differences by education, by race, by central city versus the suburbs, are long standing, said Danziger, who also said that by leaving New Orleans' most disadvantaged, immobile residents behind the hurricane clearly brought that into stark contrast. The Urban Institute’s Zedlewski admits that over the last several years more resources have been focused on the symptoms of poverty — poor education and healthcare. If you look at the long haul it is true progress has been made, she said, adding that more needs to be done, particularly in the African American community, regarding single motherhood, the high rate of incarcerated males and investing in adult education. Swagel, who recently left his job as chief of staff for the White House Council of Economic Advisors (search), believes the current administration has put into place policies — notably tax cuts — that have stimulated growth and are benefiting middle and lower income families the most. I would say our policies are on the right track, he said. They are working in the right direction, and we should not reverse course when things are improving. Watt doesn't buy the tax cut stimulus scenario. As soon as this President came in and passing these massive tax cuts, [the poverty rate] turned and went in the opposite direction, he said. This administration is about supporting people of higher income and it makes no bones about it. Meanwhile, thousands of displaced people from New Orleans are looking for jobs, and trying to begin new lives in places like Houston and Baton Rouge. Poverty advocates hope that in the long term, available education and job training opportunities, as well as the higher wages that have been promised by economists, aren't out of reach.

Katrina Reveals Poverty Reality

Friday, September 09, 2005 By Kelley Beaucar Vlahos PHOTOS VIDEO Click image to enlarge STORIES • Was Katrina Looting Justified? • Homeland Security Secretary Explains Katrina's Relief Efforts • Complete Hurricane Katrina Coverage • How to Help Stories of the grinding poverty among the survivors of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans vividly illustrate what many say is a forgotten truth of modern American life — that pockets of desperate poverty still exist in a country of unsurpassed wealth and privilege. Underscoring that reality, a report by the U.S. Census Bureau (search) released the same week Katrina hit the nation's southeast announced that the national poverty rate rose for the fourth straight year despite continuing growth in production and political rhetoric that the nation's economy is on the upswing. Click here to read the U.S. Census Bureau's report. According to that report, the number of Americans living under the poverty line grew by 1.1 million in 2004 for a total of 37 million people nationwide. That equals 12.7 percent of the total U.S. population. It is the fourth annual increase. [Poverty] is a problem in America that hasn't gone away — it just went underground for a while, and it shouldn't have, said Sheila Zedlewski, director of the Urban Institute's Income and Benefits Policy Center. Through images of the predominantly black residents of New Orleans pleading for help, leaving destroyed homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs, America got a wake-up call according to Sheldon Danziger at the National Poverty Center at the University of Michigan.

he is not even President yet and his campaign and followers are practicing big-time intimidation.  That reporter in Florida had the guts to ask Biden a hard question, the campaign says no soup for you!  Cancelled the rest of the scheduled interviews.  Said they would not be given access in an Obama administration.  A maxed-out contributor to Obama's campaign ordered a background check on Joe the Plumber...just an average American who asked Obama a hard question.  People have been threatened when they say anything negative about him.  What are these people going to do if they get REAL power?  Food for thought.

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society.

So it's okay to consistently call Obama a socialist and not Palin?  Do you even look this stuff up or is that just you being Mavericky?

An economics professor at Texas Tech University , Lubbock , TX said he had never failed a single student before but had, once, failed an entire class. The majority of that class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said ok, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism.
 
All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A. After the first test the grades were averaged, everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too, so they studied little. The second Test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for anyone else.

All failed to their great surprise and the professor told them that socialism would ultimately fail because the harder to succeed the greater the reward but when a government takes all the reward away, no one will try or succeed.

if you're going to make a statement gt don't beat around the bush.  Just come right out and say it.

I'm sure they would welcome you with open arms.

Here's you link expanded.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

1.  Any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. 

2.  a:  A system of society or group living in which there is no private property.  b:  A system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3.  A stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done. 

Notice that socialism is predicated on the concept of collective/governmental ownership of private property.  Here are a couple of links for you.  Looks like Obama is pretty much into private ownership.  The list below is of title to various economic stimulus plans.  They pretty much seem to be centered around free enterprise concepts.  Now show me your links where Obama has indicated abolishing private ownership and replacing it with government collective ownership, if you don't mind. 

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

“I believe that America's free market has been the engine of America's great progress. It's created a prosperity that is the envy of the world. It's led to a standard of living unmatched in history. And it has provided great rewards to the innovators and risk-takers who have made America a beacon for science, and technology, and discovery.  We are all in this together. From CEOs to shareholders, from financiers to factory workers, we all have a stake in each other's success because the more Americans prosper, the more America prospers.”— Barack Obama, New York, NY, September 17, 2007

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#home-ownership

Plan to Protect Homeownership and Crack Down on Mortgage Fraud. 

Create a New FHA Housing Security Program

Create a Universal Mortgage Credit

Ensure More Accountability in the Subprime Mortgage Industry

Mandate Accurate Loan Disclosure

Create Fund to Help Homeowners Avoid Foreclosures

Close Bankruptcy Loophole for Mortgage Companies

Establish a $10 billion Foreclosure Prevention Fund

Provide $10 billion in Relief for State and Local Governments Hardest-Hit by the Housing Crisis to Prevent Cuts in Vital Services

Invest in our Next Generation Innovators and Job Creators

Double Funding for the Manufacturing Extension Partnership/Job creation

Invest In A Clean Energy Economy And Create 5 Million New Green Jobs

Create New Job Training Programs for Clean Technologies

Boost the Renewable Energy Sector and Create New Jobs

Provide Tax Relief for Small Businesses and Start Up Companies

Raise the Minimum Wage

Expand the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit

There are many more examples but I just got tired of cut and paste. 

(and I don't want to see socialism), what do you think the Bush administration has done?  Buying interests in banks, etc.

I also know quite a few wealthy folks and some who are just well-to-do.  All grieve their losses in the stock market and they are all RABID REPUBLICANS who supported John McCain.  They HATE Obama.  They "get it."  They hate him because they believe  he is going to raise their taxes so he can lower taxes on the working class.  All of them have been part of the working class.  The wealthiest one is a widow who married her money.  They aren't afraid of "Robin Hood," they're afraid of having to give back some of the windfall Bush gave them with his tax cuts.

1) "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

A. Karl Marx
B. Adolph Hitler
C. Joseph Stalin
D. None of the above

2) "It's time for a new beginning, for an end to government of the few, by the few, and for the few...and to replace it with shared responsibility for shared prosperity."

A. Lenin
B. Mussolini
C. Idi Amin
D. None of the Above

3) "(We)...can't just let business as usual go on, and that means something has to be taken away from some people."

A. Nikita Khrushev
B. Jose f Goebbels
C. Boris Yeltsin
D. None of the above

4) "We have to build a political consensus and that requires people to give up a little bit of their own...in order to create this common ground."

A. Mao Tse Dung
B. Hugo Chavez
C. Kim Jong Il
D. None of the above

5) "I certainly think the free-market has failed."

A. Karl Marx
B. Lenin
C. Molotov
D. None of the above

6) "I think it's time to send a clear message to what has become the most profitable sector in (the) entire economy that they are being watched."

A. Pinochet
B. Milosevic
C. Saddam Hussein
D. None of the above


Answers:



(1) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/29/2004
(2) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 5/29/2007
(3) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(4) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(5) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 6/4/2007
(6) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton 9/2/2005