Hopefully we will no longer be spending billions on the
Posted By: Iraq war. nm on 2008-09-13
In Reply to: He never seems to explain how he will spend the - billions without raising taxes on everyone.nm
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Charging is not spending money...it is spending someone elses money!
When you are debt free (as we are) THEN you spend money...anything else is just going into debt. I highly doubt he pays cash for anything.
We are about to be on the hook for billions...
orchestrated by the Democrats in Congress and ignored by both Biden and Obama...both supposedly savvy politicians who care about the middle class...well guess what...the middle class gets royally screwed over in this just like everyone else...and you want to make fun of Palin. I guess that shows priorities are.
I just get very angry when I see BILLIONS of...
dollars being given away to Wall Street crooks with absolutely NO accounting as to who is getting how much, yet the MOST important Americans (again, IMHO) are the troops who are sacrificing their lives for us, and they receive the least in return.
I'm copying and pasting the text of the article below. The interview, I believe, is very powerful, but at least if I can copy the text, you'll have some notion of what this is about.
(May I just say God bless you and your husband and your entire family. I hope he returns to you soon.)
---
CBS: KBR knowingly exposed troops to toxic dust
David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Published: Tuesday December 23, 2008 |
A CBS News investigation has obtained evidence that a subsidiary of Halliburton, the giant energy company formerly headed by Vice President (bad word - can't post) Cheney, knowingly exposed United States soldiers to toxic materials in Iraq.
CBS interviewed Commander James Gentry of the Indiana National Guard, who is dying of a rare form of lung cancer that he believes is the result of "months of inhaling hexavalent chromium" after his battalion was assigned in April 2003 to protect contractors from Kellogg Brown & Root (KBR) working in Iraq at a local water plant. Other members of his unit are also suffering from cancers or rashes associated with the toxic chemical, which was all over the plant.
"We didn't question what we were doing," a grief-stricken Gentry told CBS. "We just knew we had to provide a security service for the KBR. ... We would never have been there if we would have known."
CBS has obtained documents which indicate that KBR knew about the danger months before the soldiers were informed. KBR employee depositions show there were "concerns about the toxins in one part of the plant as early as May of 2003," while later minutes detail symptoms of exposure, including bloody noses and rashes.
It wasn't until the end of August that the Indiana National Guardsmen were informed that the plant was contaminated, and some say they have only just learned about it this year.
Indiana Senator Evan Bayh told CBS, "I think the burden of proof at this point is on the company to come forward and very forthrightly explain what happened, why we should trust them, and why the health and well-being of our soldiers should continue to be in their hands."
KBR has issued a statement saying, "We deny the assertion that KBR harmed troops and was responsible for an unsafe condition."
KBR, which was spun off by Halliburton in 2007 as a separate corporation, has previously been accused of providing contaminated water to troops in Iraq, taking kickbacks, and sending workers to Iraq against their will.
The full CBS story can be read here.
This video is from CBS's Evening News, broadcast Dec. 22, 2008.
billions for killing Iraqis okay
not one red cent for the poor!
Billions More Needed for Rescue?
This is over and above the new so-called stimulus package.
In my local newspaper, it states "More proposals waiting in wings" then it goes on to state "The obama adminstration is developing proposals to help rescue the banking system that could cost taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars beyond the $700 bililion bailout Congress already has approved.
Details are still being worked out but the administration is looking to spend hundreds of billions more to address the foreclosure crisis, help banks get out from under weighty bad assets and expand liquidity programs."
I'm really starting to get sick literally over this. We can't spend billions of dollars when the money isn't coming into the treasury. We can't printing money without anything to back it up.
If any of you think these packages will not help the economy, please, I'm almost begging you, email or call your reps and get it stopped.
What about the Billions Bush spent
Giving millions to companies without overseeing how the money was spent. You think that is responsible? You should at least give Obama a chance. We had to suffer through 8 long years of Republican ridiculousness... Can you not be gracious enough to allow this man some time? At least he has a plan to help American PEOPLE - Not INSTITUTIONS...AKA Bush Cronies.
Wow, spot on . . .10 billions dollars a month . . .
for that war. For what? OIL. That money could go a long way to making sure EVERYBODY had healthcare and dramatically speed up the process of developing alternative energy sources! Why can no one see how much sense this makes?
I just heard billions of dollars in bigger government...
xx
Yeah, lets spend billions, go into more debt while
nm
So a FREE society cuts billions from the army corp of engineers....
so, literally, whole cities drown but we can spend trillions on a war based on lies and support corporations like Halliburton. Sure, why not. It has worked very, very well.
Kind of like the mega-rich CEOs that see nothing wrong in billions in bonuses...sm
while the company disintegrates, faithful workers pensions and futures are taken away, and they basically rape the company for all it is worth, to he!! with the workers who made the company prosperous! In my mind, it is the same mindset---ENTITLEMENT. Get as much as you can as fast as you can and screw everyone else! FDR DID devise welfare as a safety net so families would not starve to death in desperate economic times, it was never meant to be a career or a way of life, we as a country have looked the other way, as with the illegal alien problem, far too long and must make sure our legislators DO something about it OR GET OUT!
Yes, SO easy. Which is why the diet industry in this country rakes in billions each year. nm
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We can no longer
call it the war on terror and yet look at what these terrorists say. I just don't get it. We are fighting a war against terrorism. Why can't we say that? What is so wrong with calling it like it is. They are terrorists who want to bomb us and kill us....but OMG....don't call them terrorists.
Seriously, if I were Obama.....I don't think I'd be comfortable with my wife and 2 little girls living in D.C. with these kinds of threats.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,511740,00.html
My list would be much longer :) nm
z
Hi Chele....I am getting that it is no longer available...
any other way to get there? Thanks!
Video no longer available.....
It appears the video that is the subject of this post was pulled from YouTube after Warner Music filed a copyright infringement claim against its producer. Hopefully, it will reappear soon with no music or different music. We’ll see. In lieu of the video, the links that appear below this graphic are well worth your time to review, so scroll down now…
Below are links to news sources cited throughout the video shown in the order in which they appeared in the video:
The video was much better and the music was good. It sucks they took it off, but at least here are the links that this person used to make the video.
Anyone been wondering just how much longer
this Sam person is going to totally monopolize and bully this forum, before the moderator finally steps in and boots her off?
You are so right, and the longer more the denial goes on . . . .
the quicker their extinction. YEA 
If these wars go on much longer we will need to reinstitue
.
If these wars go on much longer we will need to reinstitue
.
What a joke. You no longer have any credibility. nm
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Just shows that majority of USA no longer truly
nm
How much longer do you loons intend to
Back in the real world we have a Black Friday that has turned deadly with Walmart stampedes and Toys R Us shootouts, a death toll nearing 200 in Mumbai terrorist attacks, the Obama administration security team about to be revealed, an ADDITIONAL 800 billion dollar bail out being flushed down the bottomless black hole that is the US financial sector, while at the same time, no bail out in sight for consumers, 600 billion dollars being pumped into backing mortgage securities, a plan that seems to favor the banks over the home owners, a back-burnered obstacle course for the Big 3 bail out and scores of other pertinent and interesting subjects for discussion. Yet here we are...day 3 or 4 (I've lost count), mired down in this bog of BC blather.
This discussion has advanced from the sublime to the ridiculous. We now have posters who, with a perfectly straight face, are trying to orchestrate an ill-advised, exhortative grass roots movement to dump thousands upon thousands of our hard-earned dollars to bolster this mob-mentality driven, collectively delusional, pathologic attempt to unseat our country's President-Elect. This, despite the fact that no amount of frivolous law suits is going to affect the ultimate outcome of this fool's folly. It take a whole lot of gall to justify begging for financial backing for such a ludicrous, self-serving agenda to nowhere.
Greed and corruptionhas been going on longer than
you think, from the beginning of time. It's just now more in the open with the media and technology. It wasn't just "under the Republicans" as you state. It's been going on under the dems, too, and still going on. Look at Barney Fife and some of the others. Some get caught, others do not.
If you look at the websites for contributions, then the pork, you would know what I'm talking about.
uh, helllllooooo its been longer than one night
It's been six weeks. That may not be a long time but you would think in those 6 weeks there would be at least one little small thing that would be good. But nothing...nada....zip. Just talk of gloom and doom, it's going to get worse, I'm going to have to break some of my promises to you, yada yada yada. Six weeks and not one inkling of hope. No, it's been six weeks and more people are losing their jobs, more people are losing their homes, more people are losing their pensions, kids are graduating from school but have no jobs to go to. His ratings are dropping like a lead weight. The rate it keeps going I'm going to be laughing in a couple years when America has the opportunity to vote again for new members in congress/senate.
So what are we going to hear later..."it's only been 6 months" or "it's only been a year" or "it's only been 4 years".
Psssst - Art Bell is no longer on the air.
Just to keep you up on things. There is a show called Coast to Coast but George Nouri hosts it.
I actually don't listen to him...comes on too late at night and I just don't like him as an interviewer, but sometimes he'll have an interesting guest.
But I always keep an open mind. However, you are correct, there are some nutcases out there. All we have to do is look at this last election to realize its true with what we got stuck with.
Whoops, I mean the longer their denial . . . .
 but I'm sure my point is made. Now go ahead, Flamers!
The Supreme Court won't stop him for much longer.
Thate 5-3 decision would have been a 5-4 decision, had Roberts not recused himself from ruling due to his prior ruling in the case at a lower court.
Alito and Roberts are Bush loyalists who will vote in his favor every time. Same with Scalia and Thomas.
Justice John Paul Stevens, who wrote the majority opinion, is 86. This means there is a very good chance that Bush will have the opportunity to appoint a third Supreme Court Justice, thus negatively tipping and fixing the scales of justice for decades to come, long after Bush is gone. Some radical right-wingers (including Ann Coulter) have publicly called for the assassination of a Supreme Court Justice, and Pat Robertson has been *praying* for another Bush appointment. If/when that happens, freedom as we know it in the United States will be gone for generations.
In the meantime, the current Supreme Court ruling won't mean much. They're already talking about creating a law to make Bush's tactics legal.
Not that even THAT would matter much. Bush hasn't agreed with Congress' laws 750 times since he's been in office, and he's issued *signing statements* allowing him to ignore the law.
He apparently views himself as having expanded Presidential powers in a time of war. Maybe that's a large part of the true reason we're at war with Iraq.
says "we're sorry...this video is no longer available...nm
nm
HELLOOO...It took your guy a LOT longer to make the mess!
...don't you worry about it.
The longer this goes on, the bigger terrorist breading ground sm
Iraq becomes. This is getting past ridiculous. Now, I don't think we should just pull out, but I think we need to let them have it, and there will be more US casualties, and get out ASAP.
Bidens words - no longer $250K - Now $150K (nm)
x
This has been ongoing for almost a year if not longer. Links inside. sm
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-2433
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4600891
On December 7, 2007, Obama introduced the Senate version of the Global Poverty Act of 2007 (S.2433). On February 13, the bill cleared the ...
The gov't already takes enough of my money. If this passes, the gov't will be taking even MORE of my money, your money, EVERYBODY'S money.
Be scared, be very scared.
If this nation is to survive, it is no longer US VERSUS THEM, we have to find a way to .....sm
stand united, and when our representatives are proposing or propositioning or supporing something that is NOT supported by the PEOPLE, their constituents, then we have to make calls, write letters, fax, vote, ect. I believe this two party system is doomed and that it is antiquated, there is such an ideological wall between the two parties that nothing will get done with all the finger pointing, blaming, etc. The American people are wise enough to know what is good for them, what works for them (and I mean a majority of us, not "chosen few" of Wall Street, lobbyists, oil interests, etc)., the representatives have to come back to the people. So sick of the blame game and insults, if we love this country and "the American way of life" we had all better band together, work together, LISTEN to each other's fears and needs, and concentrate on now and THE FUTURE, the long-haul. Just my humble opinion, this is all getting old and tired, and such a waste of time and energy. Instead of insulting on this board, perhaps we can spend time getting in touch with our representatives' offices, and perhaps getting a broader base of support for the Independent Party (isn't independce what we are all about?) IMHO
Dem vs. GOP spending
You can look this all up, but thought this might help. We'll see if it works. This doesn't even include the last 2 years. Note the very first column - 37 presidents over 198 years.
If they don't like spending.......
Where did over $10 trillion go over the last 8 years?
I'm sorry but spending more and more
money is the path to destruction. The reason Bush's tax cuts didn't work was because we were still spending WAY too much money in government. More government programs will only cost us more money, raise our taxes, and the American people will be hurting more. Businesses that employ people will cut back knowing taxes are going up and more people will lose jobs. Some businesses will go under and more people will lose jobs. I just do not see this spending spree and government programs helping us at all. I do not want a bigger government. I do not want government to have more control because God knows they can't even do their part without screwing something up. We have too many corrupt people in Washington who are trying to pay off the special interest groups that got them elected in the first place. If Obama signs this omnibus bill, that will be the final nail in his coffin for me. I gave him a chance and all I've seen is lie after lie. I truly feel that he is running this country even more into the ground.
If I am wrong, I will gladly admit that, but I will have to see a major turn around in order for me to admit that. Right now....all I can see more government control and future bankruptcy for our country and it scares the dickens out of me.
Cut military spending!
How about we spend less on war and more on the citizens of the United States? Those who have family members in the military whose livelihood depends on war may call this socialism, but I call it common sense!
How about spending all that energy doing
Sorry if you call what you have been doing work, but it shouldn't surprise me. Most O lovers aren't worried about hard work, just free money.
Spending under control...huh?
Yeah.....an 825 billion dollar stimulus package that won't really work....sounds like spending is under control to me. Holy crow people! Nothing like adding that to our huge deficit now and how many days as he been in office? Is that like a new record of making the deficit shoot up so fast within the first month of a presidency. Impressive....NOT.
This spending is just a drop
in the pocket at what they will actually have to spend to buy us out of this mess. We can't afford to spend our way out of this. They are going to have a spend a lot more money realistically do create the jobs they are talking about. Plus, all this money won't be going into the system right away. To me this package is crap.
At least with major tax cuts businesses could work their way out without government controlling them. I do not like the idea of our government controlling so much.
With all the spending he is proposing
to make government bigger.......he will bankrupt this country.
And spending money
we don't have is going to save the country? What I want to know is this.....we are all about finding alternative fuel sources and we want to end our dependency on foreign oil right? So if we are going to spend and invest money, why not spent it on drilling for oil now as well as starting alternative fuel sources. Think about how many jobs that would create and they would be longterm jobs because we will constantly need energy. To me that would seem like a smart thing to spend money on instead of the pet projects and crap that congress just voted for...jerks.
People would get jobs and could then afford healthcare. That would mean less people needing government assistance....but wait......Obama and the democrats want the American people dependent on government....my bad.....so that wouldn't work for their personal agenda of having more control and power over us little people.
Runaway Spending
Meet the Press: GOP Whip Cantor Hides Behind Troops to Explain Runaway Spending
by: Scott Isaacs
GOP House Whip Eric Cantor (R - Virginia) gave a gem of a performance today on NBC's Meet The Press, this site's parent company which is ultimately owned by General Electric. Cantor's job was to criticize the administration while trying to convince David Gregory, and by extension the American people, that his own personal behavior in Congress as well as the collective behavior of the GOP in Congress prior to the Obama administration was immaterial to the current situation.
First up on Cantor's checklist was to attack the administration on not having a concrete plan yet to remove troubled assets from the balance books of American banks. When confronted with the fact that the Republicans had no current plan and that the previous Republican administration was completely befuddled by the whole issue of the troubled assets and how to value & remove them Cantor insisted that it was important that America look forward, not backward.
Second was to go on the offensive against the administration in the name of wasteful spending. Whilst criticizing the Obama administration's stimulus plan, Cantor loudly lamented (while holding up a sheaf of papers) that the poor Republicans had a plan of their own but it was totally ignored by the press and, thus, ignored by the public. Cantor then went to bat on the 2009 budget bill that Obama signed into law criticizing the earmarks and the dreadful deficit spending. David Gregory then asked Cantor "People are wondering where these fiscal conservative convictions were when Republicans in Congress were complicit in President Bush's spending." Cantor's reply was quick and predictable: Of course they did! But it was for a good cause: the troops! How dare anyone question a massive budget bill in which a fraction of the massive spending goes towards outfitting our troops? Cantor slyly avoided the point that the regular Pentagon money was in the runaway budgets that the Republican Congresses approved but the specific money to operate the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were specifically appropriated as emergency measures so that they would not have to be tabulated all together and give the public a sticker shock and awe campaign over how much our Arabian adventure was actually costing. Nor did he give the Democrats that voted for this last budget the same out that he himself took: they were just doing it for the troops because we should all take care of our troops and that is what a patriotic American would do: okay anything with even a fraction of military spending in it even if the rest is massive and unneeded pork barrel spending. Despite the fact that we are still very much at war in Afghanistan, which apparently slipped Cantor's mind, he left the blame to lay squarely on Congressional Democrats. It got more entertaining when Gregory asked Cantor if it was true, as the Democrats had presented data to show, that Cantor had supported 46,000 earmarks in his time in Congress. It was at this point that Cantor said with heartfelt sincerity that there was more than enough blame to go around but that now was the time to be forward-looking and heed his and Minority Leader John Boehner's call for a moratorium on earmarks. Cantor also generously offered the Republicans in Congress' help in supporting any veto that President Obama wanted to use on a Democratic-written bill and, if need be, the Republicans would even move on Obama's behalf to repeal any legislation that Obama feels was a bad idea. It was a very touching moment of bipartisanship... a member of the other party selflessly offering to help the President undo everything he has done over the past 50 days.
Gregory then brought up the specter of government stabilization of the financial system through buying up the troubled assets. Cantor specifically said that this was priority #1. Gregory asked Cantor if he would be willing to deviate from the current Republican stance of rigid fiscal conservatism to spend the money needed to gather up these troubled assets and remove them from the game board until they had recovered to the point that they were not toxic on the banks' balance sheets anymore. Cantor hemmed and hawed saying it would depend how much it would cost and so on. Gregory then hit him with the Big "T": $2 trillion. Cantor demurred as best he could, avoiding an answer from then until the end of the interview.
Pundits and Republicans both label Cantor as one of the up-and-coming rising stars in the Republican Party. He seems to need more experience on Meet The Press before he takes a serious spokesman role. If David Gregory can roll you, Tim Russert (bless his soul, I miss him) would have eaten you with some fava beans and a nice Chianti.
but it's not his money he's spending...
it is taxpayer money. that's they problem. I don't care if he spends a hundred grand on his date - if he's money. But when it's taxpayer money and he's spending it for fun, I see a problem.
Spending..AND not even reading what they are
nm
The only attorneys spending money here are
the ones preying on the witch hunt delegation and receiving funds via internet extortion schemes. Obama does not have to lift a finger, just sit on the sidelines and watch the SC strike them down, one after another.
So agree with you. It is a spending stimulus.
No social security, nothing for the future but debt. I bet a country will be ready to buy us soon. Probably China, Iran, and Russia just waiting to buy us and take over. Shoot, probably it is in the stimulus bill because NOT ONE PERSON HAS HAD TIME TO READ IT AND GOVERNMENT PASSED IT. HOW STUPID!!!!!!!!
Government Spending: Is It Worth $62,000 to You?.....sm
Government Spending: Is It Worth $62,000 to You?
By John R. Lott, Jr.
Author, “Freedomnomics”/Senior Research Scientist, University of Maryland
The stimulus bill had to be passed quickly. President Obama warned that not passing it would result in disaster. He warned that any delay was “inexcusable.” The 1,071 page stimulus bill had to be voted on quickly — so quickly this last week that the House and the Senate couldn’t even provide politicians the 48 hours they were supposed to have to read it.
The legislation was not put up on the Web until 11 PM on February 12 and the House passed it just 12 hours later. The Senate started voting on it only hours after that. Politician after politician admitted or complained that it was physically impossible to read the bill. As it was, the copies available on the Web for voters had all sorts of hand markings on it that sometimes made it difficult to figure out exactly what the bill proposed.
Just to let this sink in — the amount of money that the government is committing to spend this year is equivalent to the average taxpayer just writing the government a check today for $62,200.
Despite all this pressure, Obama seems rather laid back after the bill was passed — he doesn’t plan the signing ceremony until Tuesday. As the New York Post noted, after passage, Obama “promptly took off for a three-day holiday getaway.” Possibly, Obama’s vacation was well deserved, but why couldn’t Congress have held debate and voted over the weekend or on Monday to allow extra time to read the bill?
It was not just the House and Senate rules that were set aside to get this vote through quickly. Promises were broken also. During the presidential campaign, Obama promised voters at least 5 days to study legislation. Obama’s presidential campaign Web site claimed that any earmark should have a written justification as well as “72 hours before they can be approved by the full Senate.” Of course, the whole spending bill is at odds with Obama’s promise to cut “net” government spending.
But the Democrats had help ramming this through. Three Republican Senators — Arlen Specter, Olympia Snow, and Susan Collins — could have voted for more time for debate. It was only with all three of their votes that the Democrats were able to reach the exact 60 votes they needed Friday to pass the bill. If any one of these three senators had asked for more time to read the bill and allow others to analyze it, they would have gotten it.
Not only did the final “stimulus” bill have major changes from what had been voted on previously by the House and Senate, but the amount of money involved is staggering. With 90 million tax filers who actually pay taxes, the $787 billion means the average taxpayer will pay over $8,700.
By itself, adding $8,700 to the average tax bill should get everyone’s attention. But that is on top of everything else that we are spending this year. With the stimulus bill, the $700 billion financial bailout (half spent by Bush and half by Obama), and the bailout for the auto companies, this year’s deficit is already at about$1.7 trillion — almost $19,000 per taxpayer. With more possible bailouts for the auto industry and others, that total might rise further.
But the stimulus won’t just raise government expenditures for the next two years. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that from 2010 to 2019 government expenditures for just 20 provisions will increase by almost $2.4 trillion. Assuming a 4.5 percent interest rate, that is the equivalent of about $1.9 trillion today. Adding that to the previous total brings the total to about $40,000 owed per taxpayer.
But that is not all the money that taxpayers are going to be on the hook for. Last week, the Obama administration promised another $2 trillion for the financial bailout. The decisions that we are making just this year are adding up to $5.6 trillion — $62,200 per taxpayer. Just to let this sink in — the amount of money that the government is committing to spend this year is equivalent to the average taxpayer just writing the government a check today for $62,200.
Each one of these expenditures are getting pushed through quickly, but it is all adding up. People have to weigh this against benefits such as the $400 per person tax credit that those who make less than $75,000 per year are going to get under the stimulus.
And that is not the end of the costs that we will face this year. From even more health care reforms to environmental regulation and global warming to even more money for autos and other companies, the bills are going to get bigger. Some costs will temporarily be hidden through borrowing, but others will mean higher immediate taxes and higher product prices.
But the average taxpayer faces a simple question: are they getting $62,200 worth of benefits from all these government expenditures this year? If so, they are going to be poorer. My guess is that most of us are going to be a lot poorer.
John R. Lott, Jr. is the author of “Freedomnomics” and a senior research scientist at the University of Maryland.
The poor are spending money, sure
but they didn't earn that money. That money could be used for education or healthcare instead of making sure poor people circulated it. I'm middle class. I have been a single mom since my son was born, no Welfare, he is 19 now. I have NEVER asked for a handout. Are you telling me that I don't spend money? I have paid for everything I have. I own a house and I haven't even received 1 dime in child support. I barely make it, but I do make it and I work my butt off to do it. It isn't fun, but who are you to tell me that I would spend more money and boost the economy more if I was on Welfare instead. My son didn't grow up with a Welfare mom and I'm sure he won't get mad at me for not helping the ecomony because of it. He doesn't even know I'm broke. For him, there is a sense of pride in earning. He is in college now and excited to be among the working class because he was never taught there was any other way, you WORK. He will get a student loan, which he will have to pay back someday. This isn't free money. He did get a Pell grant, so I guess he got a little bit of a handout, but to qualify for that, you still have to do something, go to school. The Pell grant is less than what most people get for Welfare and they don't have to do anything at all. Seriously? Poor people make this country work, who knew? And here I thought this country was built on the sweat and tears of the middle class and the hard working folks who believed in capitalism and not socialism.
So if my neighbor gives me a $1000 bucks and I go spend it, does that mean I helped my neighbor? Do I have to pay him back? Just curious.
Yep, just keep spending money we dont have, O
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